Kahles vz ZCO

jo_smith

jo_smith

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Minuteman
Mar 4, 2025
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5
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#1
I am looking at taking that jump into the top tier scope race. I need advise that is not by sponsor paid spokespeople. With the amount of money going into these scopes it is a lot and I really don't want to waste it. I have bought gear that I thought guys were using, then later found out they would never actually use that gear at all and it was just a sponsor paid ad.

Now I really like the Kahles 540i do to the parallax, left windage and the extra field of view. The ZCO 8x40 is the other side I am looking at. I have heard good things about the ZCO but it does not have the same options as the Kahles. I have seen that a lot of PRS shooters are running the ZCO but I am wondering if ZCO is sponsoring shooters and giving a false showing of how many shooters are spending their own money to buy the scopes. F-Class seems to have a lot of shooters running Kahles. There are a few PRS shooters going with Kahles.

I am sorry to ramble here but I hope this helps you understand what I am trying say.
 
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#4
I have both though they are the 525 / 527 rather than the models you mention. Both are great scopes and a notable upgrade from the NF I had previously. The ZCO has a slight edge on glass quality / clarity - not enough of an advantage to make me have a strong preference of one over the other. I don't shoot in very low light often enough to see one having a distinct advantage.

I do like some of the features on the Kahles such as the left-side windage and I like the AMR reticle (though clearly a personal preference). FWIW I rarely run either on max magnification - usually I'm around 18-20x at most.

I sent the ZCO in for service and the response and turn around time was outstanding. No experience with CS on the Kahles.

See if you can look through the scopes you are interested in and see which you prefer.
 
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#5
jo_smith said:
I am looking at taking that jump into the top tier scope race. I need advise that is not by sponsor paid spokespeople. With the amount of money going into these scopes it is a lot and I really don't want to waste it. I have bought gear that I thought guys were using, then later found out they would never actually use that gear at all and it was just a sponsor paid ad.

Now I really like the Kahles 540i do to the parallax, left windage and the extra field of view. The ZCO 8x40 is the other side I am looking at. I have heard good things about the ZCO but it does not have the same options as the Kahles. I have seen that a lot of PRS shooters are running the ZCO but I am wondering if ZCO is sponsoring shooters and giving a false showing of how many shooters are spending their own money to buy the scopes. F-Class seems to have a lot of shooters running Kahles. There are a few PRS shooters going with Kahles.

I am sorry to ramble here but I hope this helps you understand what I am trying say.
Click to expand...
You should really also look at the March FX 5-42 Gen2 PRS model if your considering these two scopes. The new March offers some things no one else on the market offers and the glass is second to NONE! Windage turret also doesn’t require eye glasses go find where your at… poke poke
 
#6
For the price of these scopes, it may make financial sense to book a cheap flight or drive to Eurooptic (or insert your fav retailer here) in order to compare outside.
 
#7
jo_smith said:
I am looking at taking that jump into the top tier scope race. I need advise that is not by sponsor paid spokespeople. With the amount of money going into these scopes it is a lot and I really don't want to waste it. I have bought gear that I thought guys were using, then later found out they would never actually use that gear at all and it was just a sponsor paid ad.

Now I really like the Kahles 540i do to the parallax, left windage and the extra field of view. The ZCO 8x40 is the other side I am looking at. I have heard good things about the ZCO but it does not have the same options as the Kahles. I have seen that a lot of PRS shooters are running the ZCO but I am wondering if ZCO is sponsoring shooters and giving a false showing of how many shooters are spending their own money to buy the scopes. F-Class seems to have a lot of shooters running Kahles. There are a few PRS shooters going with Kahles.

I am sorry to ramble here but I hope this helps you understand what I am trying say.
Click to expand...


Feel free to give me a call at your earliest convenience and I can go over the Pros and Cons of each scope.

ZCO is the most used scope in PRS and also do not provide actual sponsorship, that is a fact and has been discussed plenty of times recently.

www.snipershide.com

What The Pros Use -Best Rifle Scope For Long Range Precision Shooting 01/20/25

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2025/01/20/best-rifle-scope-for-long-range-precision-shooting-what-the-pros-use/ Congratulations to ZCO! :cool: "ZCO scopes picked up 6% more shooters among this group to land at 20% overall. That was enough to edge out Leupold from the top spot that it held last...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com


Jeff Huber goes over the "Sponsorship" aspect here which still applies today:
www.snipershide.com

Jeff Huber of Zero Compromise Interview

https://theeverydaysniper.podbean.com/e/the-everyday-sniper-episode-244-jeff-huber-zero-compromise-optics-interview/
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com


Between all of us here, we are close with both ZCO and Kahles, Jeff of ZCO I do speak with multiple times a week. Other's here speak with their contacts at Swarovski and Kahles.


Again, if you'd like facts then give me a call as I'm not anonymous :)


Richard Alves
cstactical.com
916-628-3490
 
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#8
I have a Kahles 5-25 scope and am very happy with it. I have never looked through ZCO, but own other high end scopes such as S&B 3-27 PM and 5-25PM. Also Zeiss Diavari. Kahles stacks up well against these other Alpha scopes. If you pick Kahles, I don’t think you will go wrong.
 
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#9
I run a ZCO and honestly have no complaints. It looks and performs as good or better than just about everything else out there and the feedback I’ve gotten from other ZCO owners is that their customer service is great and fast (if one ever needs it… I haven’t yet).

If I were to try a different scope tomorrow it’d probably be the Kahles 540 DLR as the glass seems to be neck and neck with the ZCOs and I like most of its features (though, I think it’s kind of a wart that it doesn’t have a locking diopter for north of $4K).

That said, Kahles’ customer service reputation for guys who are US based is pretty shitty (don’t take my word for it, do a search). I’ve seen many comments saying it took months to get scopes back from Kahles after paying for them to first go to their east coast US spot, and then on to Austria HQ and back… Yikes.
 
#12
Simonsza1 said:
I still want a hat. Maybe Richard or Nick will send me one ☝️ pm me for my address 😂 about to order a can chap for my new R30k from Nick so he can just throw one in the box wink wink .
Click to expand...


When they get caught up on production, maybe they can start making merch. Typically ZCO hats are produced for Shot Show to give out.
 
#13
Simonsza1 said:
I still want a hat. Maybe Richard or Nick will send me one ☝️ pm me for my address 😂 about to order a can chap for my new R30k from Nick so he can just throw one in the box wink wink .
Click to expand...
Don’t hold your breath.
Instead, head on over to the PX before this killer deal is snatched up!!!
www.snipershide.com

Optics - WTT: ZCO Hat

Want to trade my never worn, super rare, ZCO hat for ZCO 840 scope or DNT 735 scope since they’re just as good per internet tards. Holla
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
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#14
Kahles fucked a lot of customers over many years ago. Speaking for myself only (as one of the customers they fucked over), there was one and only one Kahles person that tried to make it right - and it was Jeff - who is now at ZCO.

I own a few ZCO's due to quality and reliability; they make great stuff and they stand behind it. I own one Kahles and that is out of pure stubbornness, their products do occasionally suck ass - and when they do, they don't stand behind them.

Mileage varies, choose wisely - a mistake at this level is an expensive mistake...
 
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#18
Simonsza1 said:
Zco gives basically nothing away. If it all it’s probably countable on one hand. They are definitely the best choice even though other choices are great also. Zco is the best imo.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I know some people who get a hook up from ZCO and it's definitely not free optics or that huge of a discount. I know a few guys sponsored by Kahles/Swaro that get free binos and scopes every year. Not that it really matters but people shooting ZCO are using their hard earned money even at the highest levels, and ZCO ownership is growing fast in the comp scene.

I haven't played with the 540i but the best glass I have ever seen in a rifle scope is a 840 ZCO and a 420 ZCO. This includes owning a couple tangents, minox and pm2s.

I hope the 540 is a big hit, it will only drive competition for better optics across the board. But If it's my money I'm taking the proven ZCO before trying the new fad, that more often than not is more hype than reality.
 
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#19
Simonsza1 said:
I still want a hat. Maybe Richard or Nick will send me one ☝️ pm me for my address 😂 about to order a can chap for my new R30k from Nick so he can just throw one in the box wink wink .
Click to expand...
Dude I've been trying to get a hat for 4 years and I'm on my 4th and soon to be 5th ZCO. Maybe I need take Nick hostage at the next match and ransom him for one.
 
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#20
DeathBeforeDismount said:
Dude I've been trying to get a hat for 4 years and I'm on my 4th and soon to be 5th ZCO. Maybe I need take Nick hostage at the next match and ransom him for one.
Click to expand...


You are not getting them from me, or else I would have probably made it happen by now.
I'd just ask for a few extra during Shot Show if they have them still.

- Richard
 
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#24
First, I'd worry less about what other people use, and look more at differences between the scopes you are considering and think about what you need/want from this scope.

I've had a k525i, currently have a ZCO527, and I have a little time fingering a k540i DLR. There are things I like about the Kahles over the ZCO and vice versa. For Kahles, I prefer top parallax, LSW, turret tool, 'european' mag ring, and the turret click-i-ness was clickier. Those feature preferences are relative/comparative, and there's nothing wrong with ZCOs controls. My ZCOs 'glass' is better than the Kahles I had. For whatever it's worth, my NLE converted ZCO (15mil) is better than my locking ZCO (15mil). If I were to get another kahles, I'd definitely go DLR (10 mil), and if I pickup another ZCO it will be a 10 mil NLE.

I can't really say how good/bad the glass is on the k540i that I messed with, but I'm hopeful that this new gen from Kahles is competitive with ZCO/Tangent. My opinion is that Kahles is historically pretty optimistic in terms of pricing relative to the competition, but hopefully this k540 is a performer.
 
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#25
I'll be honest here.

Kahles
The 525 DLR was a tank for me and never had an issue. I used the same scope for 2-3 years.
Got the 328 DLR Mid 2024 with the first batch of scopes. The glass was an improvement over the 525 DLR and the FOV is definitely nice; its the scope I am currently using. However, I did have failure with mine that resulted in the scopes complete replacement by Kahles. It started having a weird issue where the parallax didn't work properly and I was having to put parallax at 200 to get a clear image/eliminate wobble at 100 and 1000 to get a clear image at 400-500 yards. The was some potential holding zero issues also. The replacement 328 I was sent was a HUGE improvement over the first 328 I got in both windage and elevation turret tactile-ness. This will come in handy later.
In March I got a new 540 DLR in (never mounted it) and was disappointed with how the Elevation and Windage turrets felt. The Elevation was no where near as tactile my current 328 was and the windage turret had a weird thing going on. The windage turret would require more force to turn and then "loosen" up and the tighten up again when turning. Like a repeating sine wave. I sent this scope in to Kahles and they ruled it a dud and I had to wait for a replacement. The replacement was better than the initial 540 DLR I got ( still not as tactile as my currently 328) and glass on both looked great. Sent the scope back to the vendor for a refund regardless.
Also, with both the 328 and 540 the over all design makes it difficult to get the scope far enough forward without having a cantilever mount.

After having almost 2 dud scopes in a row I started to question the quality control and consistency of Kahles and have decided to move to a ZCO 840 with an MPCT1x reticle. Ordered 2 the other week. I might have just been unlucky, and the customer service from Kahles was great, but this experience over the past year just ruined my trust in them for the time being. Lastly, I have seen a few ZCO certs this year so it looks like they are starting to support the sport more.
 
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#26
Several years ago, i looked at all the Alpha bins. They were all great. It boiled down to ergonomics for me. I think the Alpha scopes are all great as well. You need to see for yourself. Look at features, ergonomics, etc etc. get what works best for YOU. This may not be what other people have.

Good luck.
 
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#27
mrmarklin said:
Several years ago, i looked at all the Alpha bins. They were all great. It boiled down to ergonomics for me. I think the Alpha scopes are all great as well. You need to see for yourself. Look at features, ergonomics, etc etc. get what works best for YOU. This may not be what other people have.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
This
 
#28
I had a ZCO 840 and 420 along with the k328 and k540 all next to each other.

Overall, I think the ZCO had the best resolution and the twist guard thing for the Kahles is retarded. I mean wtf for a $4k scope.

Other than that, I prefer the Kahles controls and SKMR+ reticle while greatly preferring the FOV and eyebox of the Kahles over the ZCO. The “view” is drastically better and easier to get behind in odd positions.

To echo the QA/QC concerns of Kahles, my new 540i had a dented ocular. Never seen that before, but between Kahles and sport optics, they’ve taken care of me quickly.
 
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#29
YotaEer said:
the twist guard thing for the Kahles is retarded. I mean wtf for a $4k scope.
Click to expand...
So that is weird. A bit like 1/4 of the AIF TT turret’s concept, but not as much “spinning coverage” of the AIF and no pop-up to unlock. But same general concept.

Kahles Twist Guard Locking Function | Optics Trade Debates - Optics Trade Blog

Check out Kahles riflescopes here Welcome to Optics Trade debates. In each episode, we talk about a different topic and try to answer the most common questions we receive about it. Today, we are going to talk about the Kahles Twist Guard locking function. The twist guard is a part of the windage...
www.optics-trade.eu www.optics-trade.eu



It does seem half-assed.
 
#30
Hearing ZCO does not sponsor shooters is a huge thing to me. Knowing that shooters are spending their own money to get the gear it a big help to me. I also heard that Kahles has had some quality issues. They are "cutting edge" but with that comes reliability problems. The ZCO does not have the features I really want, however the reliability and glass maybe what it needed. I have a match this Saturday and maybe I can find someone running the ZCO and see if they will let me look at it.
 
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#32
jo_smith said:
Hearing ZCO does not sponsor shooters is a huge thing to me. Knowing that shooters are spending their own money to get the gear it a big help to me. I also heard that Kahles has had some quality issues. They are "cutting edge" but with that comes reliability problems. The ZCO does not have the features I really want, however the reliability and glass maybe what it needed. I have a match this Saturday and maybe I can find someone running the ZCO and see if they will let me look at it.
Click to expand...

Give me a call at 916-628-3490, I'll see what I can do for you but it will be a close call - Richard
 
#34
neverenough84 said:
Has anyone seen either of these fail under normal use? Any experience with using outside PRS caliber? 338 NM? Specifically the 840 and 540 models.
Click to expand...

Obviously every brand will have some failures here and there. I've seen pretty much every optic fail at some point under "normal" use.

However it's very rare for any of the top brands (ZCO, Theta, Kahles, S&B, etc) to fail. I have used many on duty and wouldn't hesitate to use any of them in a real life situation, if that helps.

Now, keep in mind when you start talking about specialty optics like a ZCO 840, due to things like length and other things....they will be more susceptible to outside influence and such. I.E. longer optics are easier to flex if you put your hand on them and push down for support on bags and such.

I don't run Kahles much anymore, but run ZCO 527 on rifles like AXSR with larger cartridges. No issues. I don't really have a huge need for 40x, so haven't run them extensively.
 
#35
neverenough84 said:
Has anyone seen either of these fail under normal use? Any experience with using outside PRS caliber? 338 NM? Specifically the 840 and 540 models.
Click to expand...
@wooferocau ?

I hear isolated, non-public things about some issues with very heavy recoiling rifles. And I read a lot.

While I have exactly zero experience with ZCO, keep in mind there is a bit of a fanboy base that will immediately try to tamp down any regular dude reports and discussion. This reflexive (and frankly, insecure) reaction sorta stifles free discussion in the short term. It always ultimately proves counterproductive for the brand, however.

These things come and go in waves…for a while there was the rabid fan base of TBAC suppressors (that’s totally cooled off). You might see the ZCO version in full knee-jerk (re)action presently lol.

On that front, there is such a thing as too much self-promotion, dudes…after a point, less is more. Less can really be more. Really.

Self-inflicted injuries of all kinds are particularly gory. Remember Flips?

On the other, more positive hand, ZCO seems to have earned a well-deserved following for great optical performance, and personally, for tree aficionados I think their 3x tree reticle looks very intriguing.

Except for a brief bit of lens cracking due to what seemed to be a combo of a manufacturing issue and maybe an over-sensitivity to ring torque in a certain area, the scopes seem to hold up just fine on PRS and other non-hard hitting calibers.

I have a number of bookmarks on ZCO problems, but it’s bedtime. Bug me later. Here’s one:
www.snipershide.com

ZCO527 or 840 for PRS

I have a 6 dasher PRS style build I’m looking to get a scope for. Looking at the ZCO527 and 840. For those that have handled both is there a preference between the 2? Which is “better” overall in your typical shooting magnifications (15x-20x) the lower end doesn’t really matter and the higher...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

P.S. If you read my reviews etc, I hope you’ll see that while I don’t pull punches or play (hidden) favorites, I don’t take cheap shots either.
 
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#36
carbonbased said:
While I have exactly zero experience with ZCO, keep in mind there is a bit of a fanboy base that will immediately try to tamp down any regular dude reports and discussion. This reflexive (and frankly, insecure) reaction sorta stifles free discussion in the short term. It always ultimately proves counterproductive for the brand, however.

These things come and go in waves…for a while there was the rabid fan base of TBAC suppressors (that’s totally cooled off). You might see the ZCO version in full knee-jerk (re)action presently lol.
Click to expand...

I run a ZCO and even I find the hyper-defensive nature of the ZCO lads to be a bit much a lot of the time.
 
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#37
carbonbased said:
@wooferocau ?

I hear isolated, non-public things about some issues with very heavy recoiling rifles. And I read a lot.

While I have exactly zero experience with ZCO, keep in mind there is a bit of a fanboy base that will immediately try to tamp down any regular dude reports and discussion. This reflexive (and frankly, insecure) reaction sorta stifles free discussion in the short term. It always ultimately proves counterproductive for the brand, however.

These things come and go in waves…for a while there was the rabid fan base of TBAC suppressors (that’s totally cooled off). You might see the ZCO version in full knee-jerk (re)action presently lol.

On that front, there is such a thing as too much self-promotion, dudes…after a point, less is more. Less can really be more. Really.

Self-inflicted injuries of all kinds are particularly gory. Remember Flips?

On the other, more positive hand, ZCO seems to have earned a well-deserved following for great optical performance, and personally, for tree aficionados I think their 3x tree reticle looks very intriguing.

Except for a brief bit of lens cracking due to what seemed to be a combo of a manufacturing issue and maybe an over-sensitivity to ring torque in a certain area, the scopes seem to hold up just fine on PRS and other non-hard hitting calibers.

I have a number of bookmarks on ZCO problems, but it’s bedtime. Bug me later. Here’s one:
www.snipershide.com

ZCO527 or 840 for PRS

I have a 6 dasher PRS style build I’m looking to get a scope for. Looking at the ZCO527 and 840. For those that have handled both is there a preference between the 2? Which is “better” overall in your typical shooting magnifications (15x-20x) the lower end doesn’t really matter and the higher...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

P.S. If you read my reviews etc, I hope you’ll see that while I don’t pull punches or play (hidden) favorites, I don’t take cheap shots either.
Click to expand...

When there is a lot of noise made by very few and they struggle to clearly describe what, how or even answer basic questions regarding their “failed” scopes, does it surprise you people are not inclined to believe or heavily question what is being sprouted…
Add to that when individuals have many multiple scope failures across multiple brands (substantially higher than seen by other industry players), it would indicate that potentially there is other issues at play outside of scope design deficiencies or manufacture faults.
 
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#38
neverenough84 said:
Has anyone seen either of these fail under normal use? Any experience with using outside PRS caliber? 338 NM? Specifically the 840 and 540 models.
Click to expand...
I have had both Kahles and ZCO fail .... BUT!!! i have also had other high end optics fail as well...

Anything can fail..... that's when backup and support come into it , being just as important as the product itself!!
 
#39
Yup. Anything and everything will fail
. How often it happens and how the company handles it are what separates them. I know of a couple personal incidents of both ZCO and TT failing and needing warranty work. Both are pretty rare occurrence but the response and turn around time is exceptional. There is a reason both are beloved by people who own them and compete with them.
 
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#40
My first new ZCO arrived with the illumination dead. I called Jeff and it was back fixed in less than a week ( I do live relatively close to them). Things happen, the key is how good is the response. Since that one I have not had a failure, but I do baby my gear. I never had a failure with my nightforce ATCARs either.
 
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