6 Days After Celebrating '100% Renewable Power', Spain Blames "Rare Atmospheric Phenomenon" For Nation's Largest Blackout In History

Mr.BR

Mr.BR

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    • Oct 5, 2017
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    #1
    Progress when you move from grids that were stable over decades to Rolling blackout being the norm due to whole renevables not not being backed by alternative Gas,Coal,Nuclear to provide inertia to the system

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    6 Days After Celebrating '100% Renewable Power', Spain Blames "Rare Atmospheric Phenomenon" For Nation's Largest Blackout In History​

    Update (1126ET): Portugal's grid operator, REN (Rede Eléctrica Nacional), claimed that the massive power outage affecting Portugal and Spain was sparked by a "rare atmospheric phenomenon," specifically "extreme temperature variations" in the Spanish electricity grid.




    6 Days After Celebrating '100% Renewable Power', Spain Blames "Rare Atmospheric Phenomenon" For Nation's Largest Blackout In History | ZeroHedge

    ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
    www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com
    www.public.news

    Over-Reliance On Renewables Behind Catastrophic Blackouts in Spain

    Excess solar resulted in too little “inertia,” making the whole system vulnerable
    www.public.news www.public.news
     
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    #5
    Mr.BR said:
    Progress when you move from grids that were stable over decades to Rolling blackout being the norm due to whole renevables not not being backed by alternative Gas,Coal,Nuclear to provide inertia to the system

    ​

    ​

    6 Days After Celebrating '100% Renewable Power', Spain Blames "Rare Atmospheric Phenomenon" For Nation's Largest Blackout In History​

    Update (1126ET): Portugal's grid operator, REN (Rede Eléctrica Nacional), claimed that the massive power outage affecting Portugal and Spain was sparked by a "rare atmospheric phenomenon," specifically "extreme temperature variations" in the Spanish electricity grid.




    6 Days After Celebrating '100% Renewable Power', Spain Blames "Rare Atmospheric Phenomenon" For Nation's Largest Blackout In History | ZeroHedge

    ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
    www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com
    www.public.news

    Over-Reliance On Renewables Behind Catastrophic Blackouts in Spain

    Excess solar resulted in too little “inertia,” making the whole system vulnerable
    www.public.news www.public.news
    Click to expand...

    1745875561394.jpeg
     
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    #9
    lonegunman762x51 said:
    30 years in the power production industry and I can promise you this is what will happen with wind and solar every time. Enjoy it, this is your future under socialism.
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    I have not lived trough a black out in my life time !! Ice slate induced outage yes but not something like this , but now are often hearing that some of Europes most renewable heavy grids have many near misses where they make it without some sort of rolling blackouts only because they can somewhat lean onto fosil and nuclear power generation of their neighbor states that are not into Solar and Wind , either the France or Balkans and Eastern Europe .
     
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    #15
    Everyone worries about the grid going down or substations getting blown up and we need more coal and gas but the truth is it’s all venerable. Back around 2000 the Mississippi River was at or above flood stages all along the river causing a shutdown in loading and unloading facilities. Guess how all the eastern seaboard coal generators get their fuel, yes by barges on the Mississippi. Most coal plants keep 30-60 days of fuel on hand for disruption in supplies but this was pushing 40 days of no coal supplies anywhere east of the Mississippi River for the most part. Coal plants were shutting down because of no coal supply and dispatched power from west side of the river were pushing everything they could east to try and lighten the load for the eastern generations but they can only push so much. Long story short we were only a few days away from initiating rolling blackouts for major areas of the east. And you never heard anything about it from the government or the news.
     
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    #17
    lonegunman762x51 said:
    30 years in the power production industry and I can promise you this is what will happen with wind and solar every time. Enjoy it, this is your future under socialism.
    Click to expand...
    Almost as long here myself. Been in the industry for over 20 years and agree 100%. Did a rough calculation one afrernoon with our baseload requirements for the day. if we were to use just solar we would require 1/3 of the city to be covered with panels with no clouds in the sky.
     
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    #20
    lonegunman762x51 said:
    30 years in the power production industry and I can promise you this is what will happen with wind and solar every time. Enjoy it, this is your future under socialism.
    Click to expand...

    My knowledge of electricity is it makes lights work and can ruin your weekend. Nephew is CEO of an electric co-op. Based on some of the things he has told me, I do not believe solar/wind will ever work efficiently and reliably on any large scale.
     
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    #21
    I'm guessing they don't use peaking plants, or understand the time frame between "Better start that slut" and the time she assumes load.
    Just 7 meg, could have been done with simple resips which would have been at full load in under 8-15 seconds. The question I have is, were they at minimum voltage? If not why didn't they drop some voltage to pick up the speed somewhat?

    When the US grid drops, the Remora cleansing will begin.

    Years ago I got a rate reduction from TECO (Tampa electric) by allowing them to start my whole house generator via scada. Many of us made money every time they went on line as TECO paid for O&M costs, plus the whole years rate reduction. Back in those days, (the 1989 utility forced event) the washer woman public, had a thought processes change about Base load plants and their locations,...

    Its not as much about the amount of power we make, its more about the lack of efficient use of same. Could solar provide 90% of all usage if it was used properly, hell yes it could. However trying to get the public to be responsible for usage & corporations to stop wanting to line their pockets, via mandated laws that they can be as inefficient as they want yet still make money, is just a little conflicting to me.
     
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    #22
    Northfl said:
    Almost as long here myself. Been in the industry for over 20 years and agree 100%. Did a rough calculation one afrernoon with our baseload requirements for the day. if we were to use just solar we would require 1/3 of the city to be covered with panels with no clouds in the sky.
    Click to expand...
    I did the electrical design of a huge readiness center at Camp Minden, a few years back. Towards the end of the design, the dumbass who was overseeing the project for the army, I don’t remember his rank, asked during a meeting, how much it would cost to make the facility 100% reliable on solar energy. I told him that I didn’t have enough experience designing solar to give him a cost and that I could find out, but I also told him he didn’t have enough room in his building for the batteries, and the camp didn't have enough property for that many panels. That shut him up quick.
     
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    #26
    As turning the ship of fools its hard to near impossible to turn and they will continue to ram renewables down our throats at any cost , we can only hope that peak , gas tubine plants are being built as well and coal powerplants are converted to gas with generators on synchronous self-shifting clutch so they can add inertia to the system even when not runing the turbines. or even if just converted to flywheel operation .

    It looks like smart money could do with takin over abandoned plants and repurposing them , they just need to figure out how you get paid for your 'inertia building ' service .......... likely by getting laws pased that requires solar/wind provider to pay xyz for inertia similar to carbon cupons they have been getting from the fosil grid.


     
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    #27
    Mr.BR said:
    Progress when you move from grids that were stable over decades to Rolling blackout being the norm due to whole renevables not not being backed by alternative Gas,Coal,Nuclear to provide inertia to the system

    ​

    ​

    6 Days After Celebrating '100% Renewable Power', Spain Blames "Rare Atmospheric Phenomenon" For Nation's Largest Blackout In History​

    Update (1126ET): Portugal's grid operator, REN (Rede Eléctrica Nacional), claimed that the massive power outage affecting Portugal and Spain was sparked by a "rare atmospheric phenomenon," specifically "extreme temperature variations" in the Spanish electricity grid.




    6 Days After Celebrating '100% Renewable Power', Spain Blames "Rare Atmospheric Phenomenon" For Nation's Largest Blackout In History | ZeroHedge

    ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
    www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com
    www.public.news

    Over-Reliance On Renewables Behind Catastrophic Blackouts in Spain

    Excess solar resulted in too little “inertia,” making the whole system vulnerable
    www.public.news www.public.news
    Click to expand...

    Good
     
    #28
    Mr.BR said:
    we can only hope that peak , gas tubine plants are being built
    Click to expand...
    There are still some GE frame 5's (an larger) that were built in 2014 that have never been nailed to a pad or had their tie breakers close to the buss, still for sale.
    Stock # GTO8020 Here
    Or these folks, as they have a shit load of G/T's as well as Resips & combined cycle junk As well
     
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    #29
    Mr.BR said:
    As turning the ship of fools its hard to near impossible to turn and they will continue to ram renewables down our throats at any cost , we can only hope that peak , gas tubine plants are being built as well and coal powerplants are converted to gas with generators on synchronous self-shifting clutch so they can add inertia to the system even when not runing the turbines. or even if just converted to flywheel operation .

    It looks like smart money could do with takin over abandoned plants and repurposing them , they just need to figure out how you get paid for your 'inertia building ' service .......... likely by getting laws pased that requires solar/wind provider to pay xyz for inertia similar to carbon cupons they have been getting from the fosil grid.


    Click to expand...

    This was spains first national astronomy night.
     
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    #31
    Srgt. Hulka said:
    I did the electrical design of a huge readiness center at Camp Minden, a few years back. Towards the end of the design, the dumbass who was overseeing the project for the army, I don’t remember his rank, asked during a meeting, how much it would cost to make the facility 100% reliable on solar energy. I told him that I didn’t have enough experience designing solar to give him a cost and that I could find out, but I also told him he didn’t have enough room in his building for the batteries, and the camp didn't have enough property for that many panels. That shut him up quick.
    Click to expand...
    He was at least a Colonel, possibly a one star General. He was looking for information, but like many, didn’t quite know what to ask, so he inquired about dollars, since most projects come down to that.
    Your answer, even citing your lack of knowledge as to cost, was exactly what he needed to know: scaling size of panel farm, and battery storage, is a good illustration of feasibility. It wasn’t feasible.
    He shut up because that was all he needed to know.
     
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    #34
    LRRPF52 said:
    Here’s the thing that really puzzles me:

    Spain has so many rivers and tributaries, that they should be primarily using hydroelectric, not solar or wind. This is madness. They only use 13% hydroelectric for their power grid as of 2024.
    Click to expand...
    They are complaining grid is disconnected from the French Nukes that could have stabilised them , at the same time half of the hydro power was undergoing routine maintenance so getting the grid up and running took much longer

    ''What is known is that as a consequence of that shake, the interconnection with France jumped: we were isolated just at the worst time, when the peninsula needed external support to stabilize.Without that French help, the frequency of the peninsular network (which should always be 50 Hz exact) began to drop quickly.''

    The frequency is like the heartbeat of the network: if it falls too much, the systems understand that the patient (the network) is collapsing and automatically disconnected so as not to self-destruct. Thus, in just five seconds, the solar and wind farms were turned off —very sensitive to frequency variations—, 15 GW of power was lost suddenly (60% of all the electricity generated at that time), and the network could not take it anymore: it was It collapsed completely, showing the Redeia Platform (REE) a "0 MW" nationwide. That does not mean that all the turbines were physically turned off, but there was no generator synchronized at the common frequency of 50 Hz. It was, for practical purposes, a country off.To ignite a completely dead network again, one essential thing is needed: plants that can start in black, that is, without receiving energy from anywhere else. Spain has identified five large hydroelectric jumps capable of doing this. However, and here is one of the great negligences that are coming to light, three of those five groups were stopped in scheduled maintenance, by business decision supervised by the administration. Only two were operational. That made the recovery much slower and weaker than it should be in a normal contingency plan.The result is that, after almost 10 hours, only 35% to 40% of the national supply has been recovered, and there are still large areas in the dark or under scheduled cuts.''
     
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    #35
    Their government just showed the people they aren’t competent enough to be in charge of power generation and management for the nation.

    In contrast, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear, and 12% from hydroelectric.

    You know if you’re a Spaniard looking across the Strait of Gibraltar and the stinking North African Arabs have their power on, you’re suckin’ for wooden nickels.

    One of the dumbest movements we’ve seen over the past generation is the insistence that Green Energy is somehow even entertaining for power generation. Especially for Europe, where they are at higher latitude and don’t get a lot of sunlight compared to the tropics or temperate zones. It’s crazy because Spain should be the poster child for solar as you don’t get much lower in latitude than them.

    But they’re still at anywhere from Virginia to New Hampshire in latitude.
     
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    #40
    memilanuk said:
    Yay, synchronous condenser... 🙄

    They dug up tech from 60+ years ago and rebranded it. State of the art my a$$...

    How do I know? The hydro dam I'm sitting in the control room of right now was designed to use some of the units as synchronous condensers. We retired that $hit decades ago.
    Click to expand...
    Old is new again when you are reverting the power grid to green reliability straight out of 19century


     
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    #41
    LRRPF52 said:
    Their government just showed the people they aren’t competent enough to be in charge of power generation and management for the nation.

    In contrast, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear, and 12% from hydroelectric.

    You know if you’re a Spaniard looking across the Strait of Gibraltar and the stinking North African Arabs have their power on, you’re suckin’ for wooden nickels.

    One of the dumbest movements we’ve seen over the past generation is the insistence that Green Energy is somehow even entertaining for power generation. Especially for Europe, where they are at higher latitude and don’t get a lot of sunlight compared to the tropics or temperate zones. It’s crazy because Spain should be the poster child for solar as you don’t get much lower in latitude than them.

    But they’re still at anywhere from Virginia to New Hampshire in latitude.
    Click to expand...

    Well they went from near 100% renewable power to Net zero power , Green New Deal achieved. 💪


    Isabel Ayuso, regional president of Madrid, with the conservative Partido Popular, also took aim at Pedro Sanchez's socialist government, sharing her 'regret' at 'the damage this could cause to the economy and our image in the world'.

    'It's incredible that a country like ours can be left in the dark, with no clue as to where it came from, its causes, or how it happened,' she said.
     
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    #44
    Been in the power generation, transmission and repair industry for 37 years . Started with GE after finishing my enlistment with the Navy in 1988. Went to Siemens in 2014 and am currently with a privately owned turbine repair business. As has been stated , people haven’t a clue what it takes to keep the lights on. We are busier than hell in the repair facility and in the field keeping power plants running, petrochemical plants producing and all the while, being demonized by those that produce or service nothing.
     
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    #46
    sirhrmechanic said:
    No one wants to plan for what happens if we get another Carrington Event….
    Click to expand...
    Yet many do, to insure their family's have a major head start should it happen. Forced in going back to the mid 1800's would correct many things. It also would be a major teaching event on what happens when perception about what is important,... meets reality.
     
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    #48
    Mr.BR said:
    Well they went from near 100% renewable power to Net zero power , Green New Deal achieved. 💪


    Isabel Ayuso, regional president of Madrid, with the conservative Partido Popular, also took aim at Pedro Sanchez's socialist government, sharing her 'regret' at 'the damage this could cause to the economy and our image in the world'.

    'It's incredible that a country like ours can be left in the dark, with no clue as to where it came from, its causes, or how it happened,' she said.
    Click to expand...
    Oh, they know why. Just scared to admit how incompetent and unorganized they really are. “They” are generally full of shit when things are not going perfect.
     
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