Bankruptcy R700 woes

[JemLynyrd67]

I’ve stumped one customer service rep today, so I figured I’d dip my toes in this board and try as well. Thanks in advance if you’re able to follow me.

I’ve got a Remington 700 in .300 wm from right before their bankruptcy in 2013/14. The gun has frankly been a pain in the rear since it came into the family, but so have I, and I’m still around. It’s a cheapo SPS that came with a weird oem box magazine. In its original iteration, the gun shot well, but it kicked so hard my dad handed it off to me. In turn, I put it in the closet.

Recently, I switched a hogue over molded stock onto the rifle in an attempt to get some use out of it. It’s not the most popular stock, but it’s does make the gun significantly more shoot able. It’s also the only stock that will accept this magazine. However, at Hogue’s recommended torque I am getting significant signs of overpressure. I backed the action screws out as much as I was comfortable with, and the worst signs (stiff bolt, difficult extraction) have slacked off. I am still getting signs of overpressure around the primer strike. This puzzled the hogue rep.

The most glaring problem this new stock has is that it ejects the magazine after each shot. It took quite a bit of sanding and shaving the stock to get the magazine to even seat initially, but I am planning on taking a dremmel to the area around the magazine until I’ve got zero possibility of the stock itself releasing the magazine. It well could be that this is simply a failure of design - a new bottom metal wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. I am wondering if this could be caused by overpressure, however.

I’m adding a picture of the fired primers, and if I am on the wrong track about anything, sorry!

I’m a new poster, so I appreciate any help!

TL;DR
Bankruptcy R700 overpressuring in an aftermarket stock, s%*+s itself after each shot.

 

[saddlerocker]

I won't be much help, but just to get it out of the way, your using the same ammo as before?

 

[JemLynyrd67]

Edit: Redundant, my apologies.

 

[Supersubes]

Screw torque does not cause pressure, it may cause the screw to contact the bolt lug when in battery though. Likely, since you swapped stocks. Not uncommon to have to shorten screws when changing stocks.

Those case heads look fine to me.

Show some pictures of the magazine and the magazine release.

 

[JemLynyrd67]

I won't be much help, but just to get it out of the way, your using the same ammo as before?

Any thoughts are appreciated.
I’ve tried two totally different loadings and gotten the same result.

Sorry - still figuring out replies.

 

[JemLynyrd67]

Screw torque does not cause pressure, it may cause the screw to contact the bolt lug when in battery though. Likely, since you swapped stocks. Not uncommon to have to shorten screws when changing stocks.

Those case heads look fine to me.

Show some pictures of the magazine and the magazine release.

Happily, see attached.

 

[Mike Casselton]

It's not the stock causing pressure issues.
Different ammunition can cause it. Different lot number of ammunition can cause it.

Clean the barrel thoroughly. You could have carbon build up in the throat.

You do have ejector marks on the fired brass.
The cratering on the primer isn't right, but it is very common on remington rifles.

It's not the stock

 

[JemLynyrd67]

It's not the stock causing pressure issues.
Different ammunition can cause it. Different lot number of ammunition can cause it.

Clean the barrel thoroughly. You could have carbon build up in the throat.

You do have ejector marks on the fired brass.
The cratering on the primer isn't right, but it is very common on remington rifles.

It's not the stock

I definitely appreciate the information.

I ran probably 5 shots of old (2015ish) Winchester 150 gr, which gave me the worst issues (very stiff bolt, empty case not ejecting). Yesterday I just shot those two - that’s very cheap Herder’s loads.

I’m going to do a thorough cleaning of the rifle to cover my bases, but these are the first shots since the last deep cleaning it received.

Is there any other information I can give that would be helpful?

 

[DairyDictator]

Nothing wrong with that brass. Rem 700's are known for having heavy primer flow into the firing pin hole. Look for ejector swipes on the base or super flat or pierced primers.

Heavy bolt lift could be coming from the action screws compressing the stock and making their way into the bolt lugs.

The magazine falling out also sounds like a poor fitment problem that could be coming from the screws overcompressing the stock and tweaking the bottom metal.

Easy route would be to go to something like an MDT Field stock that takes AICS pattern magazines and has a chassis.

 

[shoot4fun]

I’ve stumped one customer service rep today, so I figured I’d dip my toes in this board and try as well. Thanks in advance if you’re able to follow me.

I’ve got a Remington 700 in .300 wm from right before their bankruptcy in 2013/14. The gun has frankly been a pain in the rear since it came into the family, but so have I, and I’m still around. It’s a cheapo SPS that came with a weird oem box magazine. In its original iteration, the gun shot well, but it kicked so hard my dad handed it off to me. In turn, I put it in the closet.

Recently, I switched a hogue over molded stock onto the rifle in an attempt to get some use out of it. It’s not the most popular stock, but it’s does make the gun significantly more shoot able. It’s also the only stock that will accept this magazine. However, at Hogue’s recommended torque I am getting significant signs of overpressure. I backed the action screws out as much as I was comfortable with, and the worst signs (stiff bolt, difficult extraction) have slacked off. I am still getting signs of overpressure around the primer strike. This puzzled the hogue rep.

The most glaring problem this new stock has is that it ejects the magazine after each shot. It took quite a bit of sanding and shaving the stock to get the magazine to even seat initially, but I am planning on taking a dremmel to the area around the magazine until I’ve got zero possibility of the stock itself releasing the magazine. It well could be that this is simply a failure of design - a new bottom metal wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. I am wondering if this could be caused by overpressure, however.

I’m adding a picture of the fired primers, and if I am on the wrong track about anything, sorry!

I’m a new poster, so I appreciate any help!

TL;DR
Bankruptcy R700 overpressuring in an aftermarket stock, s%*+s itself after each shot.View attachment 8687247

There are many "signs" when one thinks they are over pressure and, frankly, none of them are showing up on this brass. As stated the action screws have zer0 to do with pressure. Hard bolt lift, which I think you interpret as over pressure, can be caused by the fact that when you tightened the action screws you either didn't set a torque value or inlet allowed the action to become stressed (warped).
The magazine is OEM but odd that it came in a SPS package. They were usually cheap plastic stocks with blind magazine(ADL) .
I once had opportunity to shoot along side some area PD snipers and they were issued R700 Police models with this very same magazine. They all said the magazine had been a terrible problem as in falling out unexpectedly and not feeding reliably . Their "armorer" had tinkered with them in a fashion and got them working but those guys said if they released the magazine they were threatened with suspension (truth?).
I think it's time you started looking at a chassis with AICS mags or some arrangement of a BDL style stock with Wyatt's extended magazine.

 

[diggler1833]

My bet is that the action screws are what is causing the heavy bolt lift. I swapped stocks on a 700 once and the screws absolutely were coming contact with the bolt lugs and keeping me from even cycling the action on the new stock.

I also 3rd the position here that there isn't (from what the photos are showing) any pressure signs on the brass. Some bolts with large firing pin holes are going to crater primers extremely early in pressure...as in well before you even hit the SAAMI max. I'd be looking for a big circle or smear on the bottom of the case head OP.

 

[Aftermath]

I prefer ADL or BDL for hunting. No mag to forget, lose, have weird issues with. Hunting with a magnum class rifle, it's rare to shoot 2 rounds in succession and even more rare to have to squeeze a 3rd round. Find a stock you like in either the ADL or BDL configuration and don't look back.

 

[AMGtuned]

There are many "signs" when one thinks they are over pressure and, frankly, none of them are showing up on this brass. As stated the action screws have zer0 to do with pressure. Hard bolt lift, which I think you interpret as over pressure, can be caused by the fact that when you tightened the action screws you either didn't set a torque value or inlet allowed the action to become stressed (warped).
The magazine is OEM but odd that it came in a SPS package. They were usually cheap plastic stocks with blind magazine(ADL) .
I once had opportunity to shoot along side some area PD snipers and they were issued R700 Police models with this very same magazine. They all said the magazine had been a terrible problem as in falling out unexpectedly and not feeding reliably . Their "armorer" had tinkered with them in a fashion and got them working but those guys said if they released the magazine they were threatened with suspension (truth?).
I think it's time you started looking at a chassis with AICS mags or some arrangement of a BDL style stock with Wyatt's extended magazine.

"SPS-DM"

Personally, I thought they were only available in 308.

 

[Shoots 700's]

It’s not the action screws and the torque giving you issues

 

[neeltburn]

Pull the bolt out and see if there its sign the front action screw has come into contact with the lugs of the bolt. I agree with others who stated the brass doesn't look like it has pressure signs. Looks like normal spent R700 brass.

 

[shoot4fun]

"SPS-DM"

Personally, I thought they were only available in 308.

Same. I thought at least only in short actions.
But that appears to be an actual Remington DBM.

 

[TurdFerguson]

Your brass looks fine, your sticky bolt may be from a front action screw that is a tad long. You changed stocks, minor fitting can be required.

When going from stock to stock, the action screws can need fitting.

-way back when HS precision was cool, I had a stock take a dump, HS sent me a replacement stock. The original action screws were a tad short and the replacements screws were too long (hs ships new action screws with their stocks).

There should be a mark on the bolt lug if the screw is too long.

If unsure:

Take a marker or paint and coat the top of the front screw, reassemble the gun and work the bolt, if the paint is in the bolt or paint is missing from the screw then the lugs are making contact with the front action screw.

Brass looks fine. Is there any galling/wear on the bolt lugs on the back side of lugs? Might be as simple as a lack of lube or a rough mating surface for the lugs.

 

[redbullitt]

As said above, I've had to shorten plenty or rem700 action screws when swapping stocks.

If they are too long they interfere with the bolt and definately make the action hard to open

 

[Mike Casselton]

Here's an example of a fairly long term issue with a front action screw that was too long.
The rifle would shoot an occasional good group and then just throw shots.
Filing the screw eliminated the contact and the fliers.

 

[JemLynyrd67]

Here's an example of a fairly long term issue with a front action screw that was too long.
The rifle would shoot an occasional good group and then just throw shots.
Filing the screw eliminated the contact and the fliers.

View attachment 8687660

Mike, this is an incredibly helpful picture. I can see where my screw made the slightest amount of contact with the lug. If you don’t mind, how much did you file the screw down? I would imagine a small change would alleviate this.

As far as excreting the magazine goes, I’m inclined to switch to a BDL bottom metal. Can anybody recommend a low tier / middle of the road option for that? This is just a muddy weather hunting rifle, so I’m not super concerned with the quality of this part so long as it feeds.

 

[spife7980]

Mike, this is an incredibly helpful picture. I can see where my screw made the slightest amount of contact with the lug. If you don’t mind, how much did you file the screw down? I would imagine a small change would alleviate this.

Until it stops rubbing, then one or two passes more for good measure. Id take one thread off to start with

As far as excreting the magazine goes, I’m inclined to switch to a BDL bottom metal. Can anybody recommend a low tier / middle of the road option for that? This is just a muddy weather hunting rifle, so I’m not super concerned with the quality of this part so long as it feeds.

All of the ones I would buy are going to be half the cost of a kdg bravo chassis. Hard to recommend 200+ bucks bottom metal for a factory stock like that. Get a factory bottom metal off of ebay or something. There is a legacy international replacement but its proprietary mags. Might work for you but I cant guarantee it will be better than what you have now.

 

[6brshooter]

Screw torque does not cause pressure, it may cause the screw to contact the bolt lug when in battery though. Likely, since you swapped stocks. Not uncommon to have to shorten screws when changing stocks.

Those case heads look fine to me.

Show some pictures of the magazine and the magazine release.

This. If pillar height(area that is sandwiched between bottom metal and action) is thinner on new stock, the action screws will protruding into lug recess and lock up or cause drag on bolt operation. I could also see that shorter height cause mag to bottom out on action(possibly drag on bolt too) and not actually get latched in properly, thereby ejection itself under recoil.

 

[JemLynyrd67]

Until it stops rubbing, then one or two passes more for good measure. Id take one thread off to start with


All of the ones I would buy are going to be half the cost of a kdg bravo chassis. Hard to recommend 200+ bucks bottom metal for a factory stock like that. Get a factory bottom metal off of ebay or something. There is a legacy international replacement but its proprietary mags. Might work for you but I cant guarantee it will be better than what you have now.

Thanks, I was having a hard time reconciling putting $250 into bottom metal, I hadn’t even considered surfing eBay for an OEM. Also, mentioning a single thread is very helpful.

Thanks again for all of y’all’s help! I’ve done a deep cleaning, and I will be trimming the action screw once I’ve got the time to do so. Looks like once I get the magazine issue figured out all that’s left will be figuring out the permanent glass for the gun. I’m more confident in that field!

 

[Mike Casselton]

Mike, this is an incredibly helpful picture. I can see where my screw made the slightest amount of contact with the lug. If you don’t mind, how much did you file the screw down? I would imagine a small change would alleviate this.

As far as excreting the magazine goes, I’m inclined to switch to a BDL bottom metal. Can anybody recommend a low tier / middle of the road option for that? This is just a muddy weather hunting rifle, so I’m not super concerned with the quality of this part so long as it feeds.

About half the thickness of a complete thread.

 

[6brshooter]

I can't stand to have a short screw in an action. Seems most chassis use a standard length off the shelf screw and sometimes(usually) they only engage 2-3 threads in an action, not the 5 threads that are there. I have an assortment of 1.25, 1.5, and 2" long 1/4-28 socket head screws that I shorten to get 100% use of threads in an action. Maybe ridiculous and not needed, but I still di it.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Thanks, I was having a hard time reconciling putting $250 into bottom metal, I hadn’t even considered surfing eBay for an OEM.

Have you ever considered that the whole magazine ejection issue is just the rifle being proactive? I mean, maybe it thinks that it's going to have to eject all those casings in the mag at some point regardless, so why not just get a head start?

 

[JemLynyrd67]

Have you ever considered that the whole magazine ejection issue is just the rifle being proactive? I mean, maybe it thinks that it's going to have to eject all those casings in the mag at some point regardless, so why not just get a head start?

The proactive rifle for the proactive man, it could work!

 

[gopherslayer]

Mike, this is an incredibly helpful picture. I can see where my screw made the slightest amount of contact with the lug. If you don’t mind, how much did you file the screw down? I would imagine a small change would alleviate this.

As far as excreting the magazine goes, I’m inclined to switch to a BDL bottom metal. Can anybody recommend a low tier / middle of the road option for that? This is just a muddy weather hunting rifle, so I’m not super concerned with the quality of this part so long as it feeds.

You won’t be switching to a BDL bottom metal. Feed rails don’t exist in a R700 DM model.

 

[JemLynyrd67]

You won’t be switching to a BDL bottom metal. Feed rails don’t exist in a R700 DM

When I say bdl I do mean the entire assembly including the internal box and spring. Would this not include feed rails?

 

[spife7980]

When I say bdl I do mean the entire assembly including the internal box and spring. Would this not include feed rails?

With bdl the action has to be cut for the rounds to sit against the aciton itself and still feed without spitting up out of the action.
Stealing someone elses google pic here, I highlighted in yellow and put an arrow to the action itself being cut for that

 

[FCS]

When I say bdl I do mean the entire assembly including the internal box and spring. Would this not include feed rails?

Internal box doesn't include the feed rails, that particular action will always need a DBM system.

 

[River44]

Sell it, buy a Tikka or a Seekins and never look back

 

[gopherslayer]

When I say bdl I do mean the entire assembly including the internal box and spring. Would this not include feed rails?

Nope. Spife’s pic shows the rails. Those are milled out for the factory DM system. I should know, I have a 260 Rem DM from way back and it wouldn’t feed from the factory setup. The geometry was off quite a bit for some reason. I bought a different stock and CDI system and sent it to Jeff for the inletting. AI mags and CDI had a reasonable price on the BM and inletting that nobody else could touch price wise and he’d inlet the stock and have it back to you in a week or less. I still have a spare CDI SA in my box of crap.