MPA Rifle rings or one peice scope mount?

[0V3RC10CK3D]

Hello, I have an MPA BA PMR PRO II coming in 6.5 Creedmoor soon and a Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 sitting on the shelf for it.

Should I do rings or a scope mount? Any idea what height I should get to keep the bell of the scope closer to the barrel? (not too close but like a 1/4" - 1/2"

Any other thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[spife7980]

Rings or mount doesn’t matter. I do rings as it’s cheaper. Somewhere around .9-1.125 should work but the trend is higher, you have a cheek rest that’s adjustable to accommodate that.

 

[Quick1]

I have a MPA rifle as well, love it. But went with the American Rifle Company (ARC) M-Brace Scope Mount and love it. I was using the ARC M-Brace scope rings for a while, but wanted to be able to remove the scope and reinstall as easy as possible and the mount makes it pretty easy. If you have not checked out ARC mounts and rings, recommend them, makes installing the scope easier.

 

[ToddM]

Rings are often cheaper from the same company and more flexible for scope mounting position adjustments. A lot of the newer 1 piece mounts have almost no room to adjust the scope in the mount itself, so you are stuck with only being able to move it on the rail. With some scopes with a longer eye relief and rifles with a short rail, esp. if you have a shorter LOP, you can run out of room with a tight 1 piece mount. I tend to default to canti mounts just because I've ran into tons of setups where a non-canti mount would not go far enough forward, but I've never an into a setup I could not make a canti-mount work with ease.

Also with an adjustable cheek rest, there's zero benefit to the old practice of trying to get the scope bell close to the barrel. In fact for many shooters it puts their head unnaturally and uncomfortably low. We're seeing more and more bolt gun shooters going to 1.5" and even higher mounts to get a more vertical/natural head position.

 

[popeye089]

Rings are often cheaper from the same company and more flexible for scope mounting position adjustments. A lot of the newer 1 piece mounts have almost no room to adjust the scope in the mount itself, so you are stuck with only being able to move it on the rail. With some scopes with a longer eye relief and rifles with a short rail, esp. if you have a shorter LOP, you can run out of room with a tight 1 piece mount. I tend to default to canti mounts just because I've ran into tons of setups where a non-canti mount would not go far enough forward, but I've never an into a setup I could not make a canti-mount work with ease.

Also with an adjustable cheek rest, there's zero benefit to the old practice of trying to get the scope bell close to the barrel. In fact for many shooters it puts their head unnaturally and uncomfortably low. We're seeing more and more bolt gun shooters going to 1.5" and even higher mounts to get a more vertical/natural head position.

@ToddM is spot on

I love mounts better for the one piece design, and if you buy a reputable brand i.e. Spuhr, BO, Gray, Gieselle, NF, etc you can almost bet they are most times, concentric & square (I say almost because men and the things we produce are prone to error and imperfection)

If you go ring just make sure your height is correct (often times people buy too low)

If you go mount, I'd wait until scope is in hand and measure properly

Good luck

 

[0V3RC10CK3D]

Interesting, I was always worried about not having enough adjustability in the cheek rise for a higher mounted scope. You guys really think I should bump it up slightly higher? Like AR10 height? (pretending I have a handguard that I don't)

 

[Lightning8]

Trend is higher mounts for higher head position.

 

[Rob01]

Interesting, I was always worried about not having enough adjustability in the cheek rise for a higher mounted scope. You guys really think I should bump it up slightly higher? Like AR10 height? (pretending I have a handguard that I don't)

That would be up to you as different people like different heights depending on their facial structure and neck. I don’t like AR height on my bolt guns. Depending on the rifle the 1.125-1.26” area is where I like to stay. You can wait until you see how the rifle fits you when it comes in if you wanted. Would only be a few days to get a mount after you knew what worked for you.

For reference here is a pic of a MPA Matrix Pro II chassis with my Vudoo in it with a 1.26” height mount holding a scope similar in size to the one you plan to use. Asking you can see the chassis has plenty of adjustment.

 

[popeye089]

I would wait until you have the scope in hand and measure where your eye sits.
Our faces are shaped differently, and what works for me may leave you stretching your neck or crunching it.

I always fit my rifle first for my body, then I adjust where my scope sits both in height and eye box.
The important thing is to fit the rifle to your body and not your body to the rifle

I instruct shooting and this is always the first thing I notice when people shoot both prone and positionally. They fit their body to the rifle and their hits end up suffering, regardless of distance, of course this is exaggerated at distance

 

[Rob01]

He has the scope but waiting for the rifle. Fitting rifle to shooter is important and always fixed that first in the classes I taught also.

 

[popeye089]

a

He has the scope but waiting for the rifle. Fitting rifle to shooter is important and always fixed that first in the classes I taught also.

thanks for that, thought it was reversed.

So, to cover the reasons why to fit the rifle first, regardless if it’s a red dot or scope

1 when you get into position, the fov of the optic should fall naturally to your sight. Think about how many times you see shooters searching for their reticle or point of aim. This leads to fast target acquisition and fast first round shots.

2 for those with ill fitting rifles, when they finally find it, their heads are often in unnatural positions that aren’t just uncomfortable, but through recoil, they routinely come off target through almost every shot. Because the rifle is being held unnaturally.

3 just getting into position, you can see it takes them longer to mount the rifles, again not just in the prone position but even standing using semiautos or lining up barrier shots. They have to use extra movements just to get into a stable firing position.

4 these ill fitting rifles leave the body often bladed which doesn’t help in recoil mitigation and secondly often leaves their natural point of aim off, again affecting follow up shots and the ability to spot their own hits or misses on target, especially when you start using larger bore rounds

Hope we helped lots of good points in the thread made by quite a few seasoned shooters and instructors here

Edited because of stupid autocorrect***

 

[Neon Green Gentle Hornet]

That would be up to you as different people like different heights depending on their facial structure and neck. I don’t like AR height on my bolt guns. Depending on the rifle the 1.125-1.26” area is where I like to stay. You can wait until you see how the rifle fits you when it comes in if you wanted. Would only be a few days to get a mount after you knew what worked for you.

For reference here is a pic of a MPA Matrix Pro II chassis with my Vudoo in it with a 1.26” height mount holding a scope similar in size to the one you plan to use. Asking you can see the chassis has plenty of adjustment.

View attachment 8687059

I always set my system up and set the cheek raiser

Hello, I have an MPA BA PMR PRO II coming in 6.5 Creedmoor soon and a Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 sitting on the shelf for it.

Should I do rings or a scope mount? Any idea what height I should get to keep the bell of the scope closer to the barrel? (not too close but like a 1/4" - 1/2"

Any other thoughts?

Thanks!

Rings or one piece mount? I don't think it makes much of a difference. But I always set my system up by set the cheek raiser so it’s in a comfortable resting position. Then I put my scope on a few quarters until I get it to a position where I can see through my glass. Once I have that set I can make adjustments up or down and measure the quarters for the ring height. I know it seems like a lot. Just my two cents. Also, I’m looking for a bi-pod for my New MPA 6.5 PRC any feelings about the Atlas. I know I have to add an ARCA rail system to it and I’m concerned it may not be as secure as the ACC_TAC. P.S. I like the height adjustments on the Atlas.

 

[0V3RC10CK3D]

I always set my system up and set the cheek raiser

Rings or one piece mount? I don't think it makes much of a difference. But I always set my system up by set the cheek raiser so it’s in a comfortable resting position. Then I put my scope on a few quarters until I get it to a position where I can see through my glass. Once I have that set I can make adjustments up or down and measure the quarters for the ring height. I know it seems like a lot. Just my two cents. Also, I’m looking for a bi-pod for my New MPA 6.5 PRC any feelings about the Atlas. I know I have to add an ARCA rail system to it and I’m concerned it may not be as secure as the ACC_TAC. P.S. I like the height adjustments on the Atlas.

I ended up ordering the accutac WB-4 with the prs discount. Though the panning feature of the FC-4 seems cool I feel like it's just a bit much to keep track of and i'd rather scoot the rifle around.

I've always tossed my scope on as low as I can and then adjusted my cheek riser to fit my eye position to the scope, how exactly would I fit my cheek to a rifle without a scope on it? I have no idea what would be correct. I set my LOP so I'm squared behind the rifle not off to the side.

 

[Neon Green Gentle Hornet]

I found out that if i put the scope to low sometimes i have to reposition my neck to see through the scope. so i get comfortable behind the system i am using and then decide the best place for the scope. I am usually about 1/2 to 3/4 above the top of the barrel.

 

[popeye089]

I ended up ordering the accutac WB-4 with the prs discount. Though the panning feature of the FC-4 seems cool I feel like it's just a bit much to keep track of and i'd rather scoot the rifle around.

I've always tossed my scope on as low as I can and then adjusted my cheek riser to fit my eye position to the scope, how exactly would I fit my cheek to a rifle without a scope on it? I have no idea what would be correct. I set my LOP so I'm squared behind the rifle not off to the side.

I'll walk you through it for my technique, YMMV
Supplies needed beside the rifle and scope
-Bipod or something for the front to rest naturally or comfortably at (your ideal shooting prone height)
-Sand sock
-spacers or quarters
-ruler or calipers(easier than a ruler)

1 decide how you plan on shooting first. If it's prone only, set your length of pull (LOP) so that your shooting hand rests comfortably and naturally for your trigger pull while your body is square for recoil dispersion through your body. There should be no reaching or scrunching. You should be able naturally get behind your rifle and your hand immediately goes to your grip, no fidgeting required at all. No thinking at all
*******if you plan on shooting positionally also, I usually shorten the LOP y about .5"-1" depending on platform myself. But again, your mileage may vary

2 raise your cheek piece until your head rests comfortably and your eyes are level or near level. No awkward kinks. Your head should be comfortable and natural. It's like a head rest and combined with your LOP, it would be like you were laying on the carpet trying to watch TV.

3 Get your scope (I raise my magnification on it's highest power as that's when most have the most unforgiving eye box. While you are doing this look up your scope's specs. The manufacturer will have the eye relief range in your manual or online in the specs. Set the scope at that distance from your eye.) Using the quarters or washers keep stacking them until the line of sight is good and everything is equal. If it's off add more or less as needed. If you need to play with the eye relief, do so as needed.
****Side Note-Sometimes you might have to go higher bin order to clear our huge objective lenses we use these days

4 Get your measuring device and measure the thickness of the amount of spacers you used. Take that number and add the radius (half the diameter) of your scope. This will give you your ideal scope ring height to order.
It will also show you if that mount you want will fit or not


example
I used .75" of quarters------ =19.05 mm
My scope is 34mm so my radius is 17 mm
19.05+17= 36.05 mm or 1.41"
A lot of manufacturer's post height in metric or imperial so you don't have to convert i.e. Spuhr, Accuracy International, Area 419 etc

you will spot your shots better, be more accurate and precise, and your follow ups shots will be easier
Not to mention you will be a lot more comfortable in all postion.

 

[ToddM]

That's a great write up on how to help reverse what so many of us have been conditioned to do over the years/decades which is force ourselves to fit the rifle. Shotgun shooters and archers for decades have known that the best performance comes from adjusting the system to fit you, not the other way around, and that a gun properly fit for one shooter probably doesn't fit anyone else perfectly.

That said it's hard to do for the inexperienced, it's almost a chicken and egg thing, you need experience and knowledge/training to help recognize what a good, stable, comfortable position is for the context of your shooting and then mold the rifle system to that if possible. Mostly because there's a balance between having good form (strait behind the rifle, good trigger reach etc.) and being relaxed/comfortable. For newer shooters though (and even those trying to unlearn bad habits) asking them to get into a comfortable, stable position prone where their shooting position is also good form, is hard to do. Learning that, and getting help setting up you and your rifle really well to your body/position makes the cost of a good rifle course worth it alone.

However, you can get a lot closer on your own with posts like the above and there's been some good videos over the years on how to set up positions, tips etc. One thing I see a lot of is guys tend to run their bipods too low, because they think it's more stable, especially true of bigger guys.

 

[popeye089]

That's a great write up on how to help reverse what so many of us have been conditioned to do over the years/decades which is force ourselves to fit the rifle. Shotgun shooters and archers for decades have known that the best performance comes from adjusting the system to fit you, not the other way around, and that a gun properly fit for one shooter probably doesn't fit anyone else perfectly.

That said it's hard to do for the inexperienced, it's almost a chicken and egg thing, you need experience and knowledge/training to help recognize what a good, stable, comfortable position is for the context of your shooting and then mold the rifle system to that if possible. Mostly because there's a balance between having good form (strait behind the rifle, good trigger reach etc.) and being relaxed/comfortable. For newer shooters though (and even those trying to unlearn bad habits) asking them to get into a comfortable, stable position prone where their shooting position is also good form, is hard to do. Learning that, and getting help setting up you and your rifle really well to your body/position makes the cost of a good rifle course worth it alone.

However, you can get a lot closer on your own with posts like the above and there's been some good videos over the years on how to set up positions, tips etc. One thing I see a lot of is guys tend to run their bipods too low, because they think it's more stable, especially true of bigger guys.

2 things
1st I completely agree with you about the bipods, too many movies and too many bad techniques taughts through generations of hunters

2nd thing........Most intsructors agree with this........... I would rather have a "I never shot before" student than one who "grew up shooting"

For the newbie, We have a clean slate and most times they are open to ideas and will try anything

Seasoned shooters, They need to concentrate to break years or decades of habits and it takes many dry sessions to learn new techniques to and unlearn old muscle memory bad habits. You'll get adult males with tactical backgrounds hate admitting they need help and instruction in something they consider themselves as SMEs. It's not talking bad, but adults, especially males have fragile egos someties when it comes to doing predominately "man things" like shooting

 

[ToddM]

Yep, even as new shooters (and most things in general) women are easier to teach because they are more open minded and want to learn to do it the right way to start. Men you often have to fight egos, what they've seen on tv, youtube, or how their buddy does it. Couples can be the worst because often they are fighting with each other about how to do things or about what you told/showed them to do.

I remember reading years ago, it takes 10x the reps to undo a poor habit than to ingrain a new one from scratch. At the time I think it was 300-500 to learn a new skill to be somewhat repeatable, and 3000-5000 to replace a bad habit with the correct one. I think I remember a post here, might have been one from Frank saying that the number to replace a bad habit was closer to 10,000 reps.