I have been shooting SK Long Range ammo for matches and Eley Contact for everyday for 3 years or so. Killough's has had Contact for $5.25/ box. but has gone up to $7.25 two month ago. At $5.25 it was the best ammo out there, but at $7.25 It is closer to SKLR the price. The SK line is no go right now. I am going to try Eley Club and see how it compares. What do you use for everyday shooting? CCI SV and Tac 22 does ok out to 200yds, but falls apart past that.
Everyday ammo
- Thread starter MarkCZ
- Start date
I've had failure to run issues with several of my rifles when I've run CCI Target. For my every day ( i.e when I want quality, reasonable consistency but I'm not scoring,) I've found it hard to beat Norma Tac-22. I find it runs about as well as SK Std+ ( one small step below SKM but with an extra flier here and there.) Tac-22 was $3.20 a box last year (bought in case lots) but now its getting harder to find. I just paid $6.50 /box delivered for another case +. As I've read, importing of all 22 ammo has slowed to a crawl. All I can add is that once you find something decent, invest in 2-3 years supply.
I use Federal Automatch. I just tested out different ammo in my new CZ MTR last week and it actually was the best out of that rifle compared to Eley, SK, Wolf, and RWS. SD wasn’t the best but it grouped well out to 200 yards.
What do you guys consider acceptable SD and ES for your ammo choice? My best so far with a box of SK Standard + is an SD of 9 and ES of 43 that I'm happy with.
Bill
Bill
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Not sure about everyone else but I don’t pay near as much attention to SD’s with rimfire. I shoot it, get my velocity, check groups out to distance.
The Federal I’m shooting has an SD in the mid 20’s and it did better for me than the Eley I was shooting with an SD under 5 was but the Eley, Wolf, and RWS consistently would throw a flyer on the first shot or two out of the magazine. Federal and SK wouldn’t. Eley had the worst flyers.
The groups from the Federal were not as tight at 200 as the SK but they were still easily hitting a 4” plate at that distance.
I think one needs to calibrate their expectations. “Everyday” ammo (as in, “This is cheap enough that I don’t think about the cost of pulling the trigger”) and hitting 2 MOA targets at 200+ yards are somewhat incongruous. Simply because 2 MOA at 200 yds isn’t an “everyday” accuracy expectation.
For me personally, my performance has progressed to the point that cheaper ammo holds me back. I want to know when my wind reading or rifle manipulation are off, not when my group size is too big.
But if I were playing inside of 150 yds, Norma Tac or Match are solid choices.
For me personally, my performance has progressed to the point that cheaper ammo holds me back. I want to know when my wind reading or rifle manipulation are off, not when my group size is too big.
But if I were playing inside of 150 yds, Norma Tac or Match are solid choices.
Well the 2 moa at 200 wasn’t the group size either, just the plate size. I usually keep a 2” plate at 200 as well but it went flying off after I had shot it with my 6.5 the other day and I haven’t replaced it yet.
I also shot them all side by side as best as I could on a 12” plate at 200 and the Federal and SK did the best out of all of them. Eley and Wolf threw some horrible flyers and RWS did a little better than Eley and Wolf but not as good as the Federal and SK.
As far as group size vs wind reading and rifle manipulation that’s fine, but when I’m testing out ammo in a rifle I for sure want as good performance as I can get in group size. That’s the point in testing different ammo.
Well, you seemed to be asking about cheaper “everyday” ammo, not “as good as I can get.”
It costs more money to get better groups, especially at long range. Reports of “my SK Std+ shoots as good as Center-X” can basically never be reproduced on demand, with round counts higher than 5 shots.
Well I’m not the one asking the questions here for one thing. And when the better match ammo I tested can’t even hold a 3/4” group at 50 but bulk federal punches one hole less than half an inch at 50 I would say that’s a pretty good indication. This was done with four 5 shot groups and then the Federal was shot again in a 10 shot group at just over 1/2”. After that I shot everything at 200. I didn’t measure those groups but it was pretty easy to tell that the federal and sk had the least dispersion over and over again for 30 rounds worth on each type.
I shot the Club today. It shoots a little better than Contact. I shoot Dum Dum sucker at 100yds. 200yds i have 4", 3", 2" and a 1" 300yds I shoot Long Gongs 8", 6" and 4". I ran the 200yds gongs a few time clean 1 for 1 By the time I got to 300yds the wind got up. I could hit the 8" and 6", but the 4" was tuff.
I don’t practice much volume past 150. The dope is pretty basic, except wind, and that is easy to practice with 1”@100 or so. Mostly I practice on paper. When my positional groups are as good as the bench ones, I upgrade ammo. I found SK terribly slow, with vertical spread like CCISV. When CCISV is not good enough I go to Eley Team.
CCI SV was always go to, but managed to pick up a lot of Norma Tac for cheaper than CCI.
Norms Tac is considerably better ammo (accuracy and ES) and is better than a lot of lower end Eley I've tried, but CCI SV is good enough for practice that if it's the cheapest "match" ammo you can find then just go with that.
Norms Tac is considerably better ammo (accuracy and ES) and is better than a lot of lower end Eley I've tried, but CCI SV is good enough for practice that if it's the cheapest "match" ammo you can find then just go with that.
Puff, Puff, Pass MFer. I could use some of what ever you're smoking.
I shoot SK Standard for all practice ammo. my practice is 50y dot drills and position building drills all in 1. My match ammo is lapua Midas till it's gone, SK long Range fresh case and Eley match. It all depends on the rifle im carrying to a match as to what ammo comes out.
Second group was Federal. The rest was Eley. I wasn’t even gonna try the federal, just had it to use to get an initial zero.
For 22LR-BR at one of the clubs I shoot at, guys want <30ES max or they they don't bother with it.
ES of 30 is loosely SD of 8 (4x8=32) depending on sample size and confidence requirements etc, so a good rule of thumb.
For PRS, our local MDs don't set super small targets at 200-300 yds outside of maybe KYLs. (Those aren't exactly representative of cold-bore hit pobabilities, since the previous shots larger targets are acting as sighters).
ES of 30 is loosely SD of 8 (4x8=32) depending on sample size and confidence requirements etc, so a good rule of thumb.
For PRS, our local MDs don't set super small targets at 200-300 yds outside of maybe KYLs. (Those aren't exactly representative of cold-bore hit pobabilities, since the previous shots larger targets are acting as sighters).
+1 That SK seems to deteriate after time anybody know WTF is up with that?
Oh, so at 50 yds. Ok, less surprising there.
As a side note, those other groups are appalling. Something’s not right there.
I don’t have group pics at 200 but the federal still did better than the Eley. SK did a little better than federal maybe at 200. SK did almost as good as the Federal at 50.
I was wrong on the SD. SK had the SD under 5 and Eley was 10 something. Federal was 21 something.
Not sure that I have seen issues over time. I keep my ammo in a conditioned garage. It's not un common for me to have 4-5 cases of ammo at any time in the rimfire realm. I'll shoot 1.5-2 cases a year between 3 rifles.
This particular lot of SK was never great with SD, but started to deteriorate in mean velocity over time. And it showed up on paper/target downrange. It was stored indoors with other ammo that didn't change velocity/SD etc. At the time, I chalked it up to mid-pandemic QC probably going to shit. Just curious if anyone else had seen the same.
Thats very interesting for sure. The case of Sk I just finished was a 5.4 SD and a 21 ES over 50 rounds. It was an amazing lot. It was also just a random purchased case as well.
What flabvour Eley is it?
I have had very mixed results with Eley.
Any Tenex, Team, Match I have tried has been good, even Eley Standard.
Eley Club has been extremely inconsistent between batches, and 38gr Subs have gone from an ES of 50ish to and ES of over 100 with horrible high low fliers in another batch.
My practice/goof’n ammo is my match ammo. I try and hold my per box price as close as I can to $5.00, and do everything I can to get the most out of each rifle. This translates to an assortment of guns that shoot nearly identical group sizes for high round counts, which helps my confidence that I’m getting about all I can out of my abilities as well.
I have noticed a trend in ammo that troubles me.
Back in the day… 20 years ago, I shot NAMMO made Wolf MT and Winchester bulk pack Dynapoints like they were water. That ammo was heads and shoulders above the stuff I’d relied on in the past, with consistent match size groups across a broad selection of guns. When Wolf switched contracts to Eley, my consistent groups grew dramatically, so I quit buying it. Dynapoints disappeared during the first ammo famine, and CMP Eley became my go-to, but again, groups were not as tight.
When that ran out, I switched to Geco Bolt Rifle, at 25-50 yards it was ok, so I ran it in comps for a few years until it became unavailable. Now I’m on Eley Contact, only excels in my longer barrels,in everything else it breaks the sound barrier and groups are loose. Guess ammo will just continue to get worse until someone starts up with something new
I have noticed a trend in ammo that troubles me.
Back in the day… 20 years ago, I shot NAMMO made Wolf MT and Winchester bulk pack Dynapoints like they were water. That ammo was heads and shoulders above the stuff I’d relied on in the past, with consistent match size groups across a broad selection of guns. When Wolf switched contracts to Eley, my consistent groups grew dramatically, so I quit buying it. Dynapoints disappeared during the first ammo famine, and CMP Eley became my go-to, but again, groups were not as tight.
When that ran out, I switched to Geco Bolt Rifle, at 25-50 yards it was ok, so I ran it in comps for a few years until it became unavailable. Now I’m on Eley Contact, only excels in my longer barrels,in everything else it breaks the sound barrier and groups are loose. Guess ammo will just continue to get worse until someone starts up with something new
I generally try to keep “pratice ammo” and match ammo in the same ecosystem. ….i.e…. SK / Lapua / Norma……..Eley/Wolf……..etc
In my main bolt gun I was fortunate enough to acquire enough of the same lot of Lapua Long Range to last most of last season and probably another two months of this one.
When I go out after work every day it’s Norma Tac 22 which holds almost the same POI as this lot of Lapua.
In my semi autos I will typically use Eley Outlaw for reps and SABR for NRL22 and Long Gong.
The SDs and ESs in SABR are typically as good or better in my KIDDs than Lapua in a bolt gun.
In my main bolt gun I was fortunate enough to acquire enough of the same lot of Lapua Long Range to last most of last season and probably another two months of this one.
When I go out after work every day it’s Norma Tac 22 which holds almost the same POI as this lot of Lapua.
In my semi autos I will typically use Eley Outlaw for reps and SABR for NRL22 and Long Gong.
The SDs and ESs in SABR are typically as good or better in my KIDDs than Lapua in a bolt gun.
I shoot 50 and 100 yds with semi-autos, a T/CR 22 and an AR pattern .22 LR. When I started about 4 yrs back, I tried several standard mfrs' loads and found Norma Tac-22 the most consistent of the lower-priced rounds, while shooting as accurately/precisely as Eley Club or Wolf Match. Another good feature of Tac-22 is the lube Norma uses isn't too bad in 35F or colder temps, not waxy or sludgy.
This was at 50 yards? Something isn't right. What rifle are you shooting this out of? What headspace are you running?
Its been a while since I setup my rifle, so I'm going by memory; but Eley has a relatively thin case rim and my rifle does the best with Eley when the headsapce is at .038 or less, with the best being when I set headspace with a .037 headspace. I chose to setup my rig with a .039 headspace because that is appropriate for SK ammo, which is what I shoot the most of. It was a happy coincidence that this headspace also accommodates cheaper ammo, like Federal Auto Match.
I shoot a lot of Auto Match. Its cheap and it runs well in all of my semi autos. I've had results with the Fed that ranged from spectacular to meh. Performance varies greatly from lot to lot.
As far as the big SDs with Eley goes, my theory (and it's just a theory) is that when running eley with excessive headspace, it leads to inconsistent primer ignition which leads to the velocity variance. You can test this in your rig by paying attention to and trying to chamber rounds in a consistent manner.
For reference, I run a CZ 457 with a Lilja barrel. These barrels are spun up in a manner intended to allow the end user to set the headspace. If you have a similar setup, I would suggest getting at least one headspace gauge at say, .039 to at least give yourself a solid reference point from which you can experiment and take note of the difference headspace makes.
I also like to practice on ARA 50 yard targets. The ones where a score of 2500 would be a perfect score. With SK Semi Auto, which is a cheap ammunituon, relatively speaking, and my rifle setup to shoot it, I score 2350 or better 80% of the time with perfect scores happening often enough that it doesn't surprise me when it happens.
Well, that is the Unlimited target, guys with $4-5k rifles (me for one) would love to say that we shoot 2350 or better 80% of the time. I recently shot a 2300 with my Lilja barreled 457 and was thrilled. You should compete in ARA unlimited. Oh, did you plug the close ones
Edit: I actually missed the perfect score part. I shot a 2500 last November, it was the 5th 2500 shot in Florida since 2012.
Edit: I actually missed the perfect score part. I shot a 2500 last November, it was the 5th 2500 shot in Florida since 2012.
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Oh, there was a time when I lived and breathed rimfire. I didn't have the time or money to compete in anything but my local match, but the competition at my local match was fierce. We had a few pretty renowned shooters showing up with those $3k+ rifles. Custom Anschutz and other custom actions that I don't remember the names of. I was shooting a Shillen barreled 40x in a McMillan stock, with the action glued to the stock. I think I was running a Jewel trigger. Rimfire can get pretty sick, even on a local level.
The guy that ran the match, in an effort to level the playing field, required that you run the supplied ammo. That was Wolf Match Extra. If I recall right, that was the equivalent of SK Rifle Match, back when SK was loading for Wolf.
Someone shooting a perfect score was not unusual, nor was counting "X's" to declare a winner.
In any case, you do have to take what I said about my results with a grain of salt. What you can do in practice does not always directly correlate to what you'll do in a match. You can't choose your match conditions. What I said above applies in good conditions with little wind and is more of a testament to the capabilities of the equipment than my skill.
Yes, I do plug the close ones and either it broke the line or it didn't.
These days I just shoot for pleasure and to compete against myself and my friends with my trusty CZ457.
Anyway, I think the point I was trying to make is that you can find accurate ammo, even cheap ammo that will shoot accurately. What you pay for with expensive ammo is consistency from lot to lot and within each lot.
You can't buy a box of cheap stuff, find that it shoots well and declare that that ammo shoots well. More often than not, cheap ammo is going to varying wildly from lot to lot.
I see lots of guys that swear by CCI SV and Norma Tac 22, and yet when they put it down on a score card they can't understand it when they drop 500 points on a card after having shot all of those 1/2" groups. Of course, at least some of that is shooter error.
Still, I have run across some stellar lots of Federal Auto Match. I get it by the case to run through my semi autos, but I always test them in the bolt gun. When I find a lot that does decent in the bolt gun, I set that aside.
