Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56

[steve123]

I won a USPSA state championship with a Kimber - that doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job, nor that better tools have come out since then.

I won the American Handgun World Shootoff with a Glock in unclassified division, then later in B stock with a STI 40, but I also could have won it with a Kimber. Because you can't miss fast enough to win. Which brings it back to "practicality".

A .2 mil reticle is a .2 mil reticle and the .05 mil reticle thickness can help you make the holds out better when down on mid magnification - as I found out.

Disagreement is fine and people use what they prefer.
I've actually helped design reticles presently in use in currently available rifle scopes, one of which is also a favorite .2 mil. I've also won matches with it.

But the H reticles do work and work well for holdovers/offs. I'm proof of it.

 

[steve123]

Your sarcasm proves jack-shit. 1 vs. 100,000 other non-Horus reticle scopes being used in those comps worldwide.

However, amidst all your pointless drivel and egomania, you did make my point for me in your last sentence… If you know what you’re doing, you can win with just about anything…Ask Carlos Hathcock, or Chuck Mawhinny.

You still don’t need the H59. But for some folks, it’s just like Imaginationland, where “If you believe it to be real, then It’s real…” Whatever subconscious reinforcement you need that helps you win, helps you win.

Imagineland, that's like you ever winning anything except scope deutsche of SH.

 

[FuhQ]

Imagineland, that's like you ever winning anything except scope deutsche of SH.

I’ve actually won a lot of things on a lot of different arenas in my life, but keep imagining my incompetence. It feeds me.

Enjoy your self-deluded circlejerk.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Reticle is nothing but a ruler. That's it. Stop over complicating things. Unless you are under fire or shooting a match where speed is of essence, dial.

The VAST majority of people would be better off with a simple reticle like the JTAC or PR3 to make spotting trace and your shot easier and make it easier to focus on the aiming point.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I am new at this. I like the visual. It has helped me learn how to use the reticles. Maybe I won't care in the future when I have more experience.

You been here over 10 years and are new to this? Interesting....

 

[Ronws]

I just dial the solution. However, I do like how Strelok Pro will true the reticle and give you a target to look at. AB Quantum can show you a reticle but I am not seeing what does for a person. As was well said, you don't really need a reticle vision to just shoot. If elevation is 2 MOA, then dial or hold 2 MOA, for example.

Edited to add, I do like clear reticles and have used them to range a target in thick woods. The laser reflects off a leave at 30 yards. But I know the average width of a tree in AO and do the math.

 

[TBK]

You been here over 10 years and are new to this? Interesting....

Yup. I joined quite a while ago. Then life got in the way and I didn't sboot for almost 8 years. I took a long range precision shooting class this summer and got back into. Started reading this forum again A lot has changed, I'm glad y'all know everything.

 

[FieldGaugeFailure]

Yup. I joined quite a while ago. Then life got in the way and I didn't sboot for almost 8 years. I took a long range precision shooting class this summer and got back into. Started reading this forum again A lot has changed, I'm glad y'all know everything.

Yep, 10 years ago, a reticle tree meant something entirely different. 4 mils in 2014 is actually 5.2 mils now. Inflation and what not.

 

[Ronws]

Yup. I joined quite a while ago. Then life got in the way and I didn't sboot for almost 8 years. I took a long range precision shooting class this summer and got back into. Started reading this forum again A lot has changed, I'm glad y'all know everything.

I wouldn't worry about it. Not that you are. deathbeforedishwater is like that with everyone. It's hard to remember a post where he was being civil and downright insulting. That's just his way. I get a giggle out of it.

 

[glock24]

After a bit of reading and learning, I'm leaning hard toward a purchase of one of these G3s. Happy to see the bugs are worked out.

One final question; I see some folks mention returning their G3s for the "elevation turret lock delete". I think I'd like to do this also. Is this requst the same as a warranty claim, or does it involve a service charge?

Thanks in advance

 

[Rob01]

I’d recommend you get it and try it first. A lot of people did it as some of the earlier ones would drop easily but that doesn’t happen now so it’s not a bad option to have. You can always do it later.

 

[Jrb572]

Isn’t there a guy who 3d prints something that snaps on that keeps it from locking?

 

[Rob01]

Yeah and you can use an o-ring also but not really needed anymore. They stay up just like the Gen II which no one complained about.

 

[mustang-cars]

Yeah they’re fine. I have 2 of them with thousands of rounds on each. You don’t need the lock delete. It’s a fantastic scope for the money

 

[TheOE800]

Fella didn’t ask you guys if he needed it…

It’s a warranty service so far as I know. I’ve not heard anyone say they paid for it.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

When I had it done one last year, I called the warranty service number and explained what I was asking for and they prepped the label. I think I had it back in less that 2 weeks. It was free.

 

[1911Shootist]

Yep, free warranty service. Just had both of mine done. Much nicer having the index mark right up to the turret during adjustments.

 

[Rob01]

Fella didn’t ask you guys if he needed it…

It’s a warranty service so far as I know. I’ve not heard anyone say they paid for it.

No he didn’t but sometimes people think they need something and don’t realize they don’t. There has been changes since these came out and people were using spacers and having the locking mechanism disabled. Just don’t want him doing something he thinks he needs and then finding out he didn’t.

 

[photorestore]

After a bit of reading and learning, I'm leaning hard toward a purchase of one of these G3s. Happy to see the bugs are worked out.

One final question; I see some folks mention returning their G3s for the "elevation turret lock delete". I think I'd like to do this also. Is this requst the same as a warranty claim, or does it involve a service charge?

Thanks in advance

Vortex does the turret mod no charge. Definitely try yours first though, I have heard they are a lot better now. I really like the scope and I think you will be happy if you decide to get one.

 

[mustang-cars]

Fella didn’t ask you guys if he needed it…

It’s a warranty service so far as I know. I’ve not heard anyone say they paid for it.

He may not have gotten the answer he asked for but he got the answer he needed. That’s what SH is for

 

[Edsel]

How is everyone liking the EBR - 7D reticle thus far?

This question from someone who’s used the MSR reticle almost exclusively for more than a decade.

 

[Rob01]

How is everyone liking the EBR - 7D reticle thus far?

This question from someone who’s used the MSR reticle almost exclusively for more than a decade.

Been out for a few years and most like it. I really like it personally. Great for holds. The tree isn’t overly heavy so coming from a standard reticle shouldn’t be that hard.

 

[Schw15]

As far as a tree reticle it's pretty nice not over crowded but I would love if vortex would put a reticle similar to the zco MPCT1x

 

[superde]

Love it

 

[Rob01]

As far as a tree reticle it's pretty nice not over crowded but I would love if vortex would put a reticle similar to the zco MPCT1x

That would be kind of a back pedal. Used those standard reticle for years but after going to the trees about 12 years ago and their hold versatility I’d never go back to a standard style reticle.

 

[Schw15]

That would be kind of a back pedal. Used those standard reticle for years but after going to the trees about 12 years ago and their hold versatility I’d never go back to a standard style reticle.

For my elr stuff I'm starting to like less and less with my reticles and honestly I never use the tree for anything dial elevation and hold wind or dial wind for certain matches

 

[Rob01]

For my elr stuff I'm starting to like less and less with my reticles and honestly I never use the tree for anything dial elevation and hold wind or dial wind for certain matches

Yeah I can see that and for that you could just ignore the tree altogether and use the main reticle like a standard style. Dial it up and use the horizontal for wind.

 

[Schw15]

Yeah I can see that and for that you could just ignore the tree altogether and use the main reticle like a standard style. Dial it up and use the horizontal for wind.

That's what I do. It's a good reticle but the more I shoot the less I want for reticle

 

[Edsel]

Been out for a few years and most like it. I really like it personally. Great for holds. The tree isn’t overly heavy so coming from a standard reticle shouldn’t be that hard.

As far as a tree reticle it's pretty nice not over crowded but I would love if vortex would put a reticle similar to the zco MPCT1x

For my elr stuff I'm starting to like less and less with my reticles and honestly I never use the tree for anything dial elevation and hold wind or dial wind for certain matches

It’s going to be an iffy departure from the stadia and rulers for me.

Gotten so used to this routine…

 

[Rob01]

It’s going to be an iffy departure from the stadia and rulers for me.

Gotten so used to this routine…

Why? No one is shooting man sized UKD targets out there so that little speed range brackets aren’t super useful and the 7D has .1 mil bracket area to mil targets if you wanted.

 

[Edsel]

Why? No one is shooting man sized UKD targets out there so that little speed range brackets aren’t super useful and the 7D has .1 mil bracket area to mil targets if you wanted.

We used those cardboard torso and quarter sized steel torso targets at unknown distances.

You can even alter the ratios relative to known range landmarks to do some really quick mental math.

The stadia are quite convenient to use.

No one little dot two little dots three little dots four little dots five little dots oh no that was really four little dots so that’s um two hundred uh no three hundred thirty five meters where’s my calculator routine to dither over.

All I’m saying is that it’s going to be a different “manual of arms” and “overall experience” for me.

These trees would appear to suit gamers more, for quick follow - up holds.

My Razors in black should be inbound soon.

 

[Qpski]

I believe they will sell well and that this is obviously aimed at the ATACR 7-35 market. Since Vortex's street pricing is typically about 30% off MSRP, the Razor will be about $800 less expensive than the ATACR. Additionally, many shooters may find it more difficult to defend the higher cost of rival scopes thanks to Vortex's Mil/LEO discount. Kahles peaks at 25x, while S&B, ZCO, and TT surpass $4K. I acknowledge that there is a market group that is accustomed to and content with spending more than $4K on optics, and they are probably not going to be persuaded by this offer.

A reliable reticle is EBR-7. The Vortex EBR (on Razors since Gen 1) was followed by the NightForce MIL-XT and Kahles SKMR3 reticles, and I have to assume that the Razors' competitive pressure played a role in that. Although they are within 6 ounces of the ATACR, I really wish Vortex had managed to keep the weight under 40 ounces. This will probably be well-liked by PRS.

Because Vortex is exerting pressure on the market, I believe that this release benefits everyone, even if you choose to remain with the competitor. I wonder if their AMG is also moving in this direction.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I believe they will sell well and that this is obviously aimed at the ATACR 7-35 market. Since Vortex's street pricing is typically about 30% off MSRP, the Razor will be about $800 less expensive than the ATACR. Additionally, many shooters may find it more difficult to defend the higher cost of rival scopes thanks to Vortex's Mil/LEO discount. Kahles peaks at 25x, while S&B, ZCO, and TT surpass $4K. I acknowledge that there is a market group that is accustomed to and content with spending more than $4K on optics, and they are probably not going to be persuaded by this offer.

A reliable reticle is EBR-7. The Vortex EBR (on Razors since Gen 1) was followed by the NightForce MIL-XT and Kahles SKMR3 reticles, and I have to assume that the Razors' competitive pressure played a role in that. Although they are within 6 ounces of the ATACR, I really wish Vortex had managed to keep the weight under 40 ounces. This will probably be well-liked by PRS.

Because Vortex is exerting pressure on the market, I believe that this release benefits everyone, even if you choose to remain with the competitor. I wonder if their AMG is also moving in this direction.

You are aware NF has a mil/leo discount as well that's between 25-40% of real MSRP...not crazy inflated bullshit numbers like vortex.

 

[stanley_white]

These trees would appear to suit gamers more, for quick follow - up holds.

Gamer’s Hide vs Sniper’s Hide

-Stan

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Trees are for military applications. Most high level shooters have migrated back to a simple cross hair with .2 hashes. Gas guns or other games guys may still like them but for bolt guns, I think the non tree reticles are only getting more popular. It makes seeing small , hidden, greyed out targets easier and spotting your shot easier IMO. Plus why spend 4-6k for the best glass on the earth only to overlay a bunch of shit you will never use on it.

 

[diggler1833]

You are aware NF has a mil/leo discount as well that's between 25-40% of real MSRP...not crazy inflated bullshit numbers like vortex.

^ Yep.

This is why my last scope was a 7-35 ATACR and not another G3 Razor. I actually got the NF for a couple hundred less than I can get the Vortex now.

 

[FuhQ]

I hope Vortex designs a more DNT/MIL-XT (0.2 MIL) style reticle for the Razor G4… That continuously fatter coniferous tree reticle is kind of played-out, and blocks a lot of background view. Plus, if my intended target requires more than a couple MILs of windage, I’m dialing it.

 

[Charcoal Victorious Alp]

Actually the DNT and Mil-XT are even busier than the EBR7D. I had the chance to use the Gen III 6-36 MRAD for a few months and I returned it because of the reticle, same issue I had with the DNT previously. Even though the optical performance, controls and everything about it was actually amazing, I especially found the poo poo brown finish appealing, there was just too much going on with the holdovers. I even reached out to Vortex with a revision(see pdf) of the EBR-7D asking if they're planning to introduce simpler reticle options. Got a somewhat positive reply without any concrete action plans. But hey, worth a try.

Anyone know when the G4 line is due?

 

[AznTactical]

Arguing about reticles is like arguing if Ford, GM, Dodge, Toyota trucks is best. Here's my "Tesla" opinion. I'd love to see Nightforce's MOAR-CF2D but in mrad, combined with Schmidt & Bender's TR²ID's Xmas tree. Then I'd make Ø0.05 mil dots every 1 mil on the COMPLETE vertical stadia (up to 2 mils hold under). Leave the top 3rd open for spotting shots. ;-)

 

[TBK]

I’m hoping for a non-tree reticle. I shoot without a spotter. The tree makes it difficult to see where the miss landed.

I would also like to see Vortex allow all ballistic apps to include Vortex reticles. VHS (Applied Ballistics) became the standard despite Sony’s position that its Betamax (GeoBallistics) was better. I’m of an open source mindset-one gains market share by being available everywhere (every ballistics app).

 

[Charcoal Victorious Alp]

Same, that's the only reason I'm keeping my SFP Delta, the super fine simple DLS-1 reticle. I can see the bullets fly all the way to the target and spot them easily. Holdovers are a bit of a challenge due to the SFP but still doable. For .22 comps I sometimes set it on x20 where 1Mil on the reticle = 2Mil on target, since the reticle is optimized for x40. But I dial mostly to eliminate mistakes.

 

[Rob01]

Have used the 7D reticle on my .22 for matches and no issues spotting hits. Used the 7C before that and the same.

 

[CK1.0]

I had 3 different RG3s over 2-3 barrels and a lot of rounds... and eventually realized that the EBR-7D reticle (and all its little .2 hashes everywhere) was just too busy for my eyes/brain. (For some reason, the RG2's EBR-7C didn't "dazzle" my eyes/brain as much, but I also wasn't as good of a shooter back then when I had it.)

I ended up moving to a ZCO for their MPCT-1X reticle.

Honestly, it sucks/sucked having to spend $1000+ more just to get a non-tree reticle when otherwise there wasn't anything else I had to complain about with the Razors.... but I'd do it again today if I had to because it's had such a positive effect on my shooting.

I've said it before (and may say it again), if Vortex puts out a Razor with a simpler non-tree reticle, I'd be happy to give them my money.

 

[carbonbased]

I’m hoping for a non-tree reticle. I shoot without a spotter. The tree makes it difficult to see where the miss landed.

I would also like to see Vortex allow all ballistic apps to include Vortex reticles. VHS (Applied Ballistics) became the standard despite Sony’s position that its Betamax (GeoBallistics) was better. I’m of an open source mindset-one gains market share by being available everywhere (every ballistics app).

Which apps are disallowed from showing Vortex reticles? I know Strelok Pro has them, but that’s not downloadable in the US anymore due to Russian sanctions. I got it way before that.

I do know the Tremor reticles enforce their copyright so none of their reticles are in any app but their own.

 

[AznTactical]

Which apps are disallowed from showing Vortex reticles? I know Strelok Pro has them, but that’s not downloadable in the US anymore due to Russian sanctions. I got it way before that.

I do know the Tremor reticles enforce their copyright so none of their reticles are in any app but their own.

AB Quantum is one of them. Doesn't bother me because I have no use for that feature. I just need DOPE. Don't need how to hold the target relative to the reticle (would like to know why people want it though).

 

[carbonbased]

AB Quantum is one of them.

I wonder if it’s vortex disallowing them or just AB not putting it in there?

would like to know why people want it though

I am mainly a holdover guy, and I also hold for wind.

I like reticles in Strelok because I get a good visualization of how a potential new scope will look to me when shooting. I shoot pdogs, and Strelok has a million target types to choose from. IPSC to NATO to mice to wildebeest.

Once I own the scope/reticle, the reticle feature is less useful to me. But before I buy, it’s like a no-risk test drive of the reticle.

If you’re a dialer, I don’t see the reticle feature really being compelling.

 

[AznTactical]

I wonder if it’s vortex disallowing them or just AB not putting it in there?

It was probably a business decision since Vortex now owns Geo Ballistics which is a competitor of AB. Similar to Horus not allowing their Tremor reticles in Strelok. I currently use AB and Strelok too.

 

[carbonbased]

It was probably a business decision since Vortex now owns Geo Ballistics which is a competitor of AB. Similar to Horus not allowing their Tremor reticles in Strelok. I currently use AB and Strelok too.

I find it so short-sighted of manufacturers to take their reticles off an 3rd-party app. All that does is piss consumers off. If you build biz model around monetizing the holds on your reticle…then you’re pretty dumb.

The reticle is a huge draw of why someone buys a scope. If your in-house ballistic app (like GeoBallistics) isn’t literally the best thing since sliced bread and isn’t already the industry standard, then gatekeeping the reticle in other apps most likely only hurts Vortex.

 

[Rob01]

I had 3 different RG3s over 2-3 barrels and a lot of rounds... and eventually realized that the EBR-7D reticle (and all its little .2 hashes everywhere) was just too busy for my eyes/brain. (For some reason, the RG2's EBR-7C didn't "dazzle" my eyes/brain as much, but I also wasn't as good of a shooter back then when I had it.)

I ended up moving to a ZCO for their MPCT-1X reticle.

Honestly, it sucks/sucked having to spend $1000+ more just to get a non-tree reticle when otherwise there wasn't anything else I had to complain about with the Razors.... but I'd do it again today if I had to because it's had such a positive effect on my shooting.

I've said it before (and may say it again), if Vortex puts out a Razor with a simpler non-tree reticle, I'd be happy to give them my money.

The problem is you get the vocal minority yelling it’s needed and then they don’t sell. They used to offer one in the Gen II and discontinued them because they didn’t sell.

 

[AznTactical]

The problem is you get the vocal minority yelling it’s needed and then they don’t sell. They used to offer one in the Gen II and discontinued them because they didn’t sell.

Exactly! the good ole EBR-1D.