Optics Advice for AR-15

[STLslug]

I'm building my first AR-15 (JP, 18") and would greatly appreciate some optics recommendations. I'm planning on shooting mostly bench (some prone) at 25, 100, and 300yds. Budget is max $1200 (unless you make a convincing enough case).

Right now it seems like my options for this setup are either a 1-6 or 1-8 LPVO, or something like a 2-10 possibly with an offset RD. I'd love to hear any advice for this!

 

[Redlion]

I think that you are on the right track with.....

1-6 or 1-8 LPVO, or something like a 2-10 possibly with an offset RD.

 

[USK308]

Concur with either a 1-6 or a 1-8 LVPO...give your use-case.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

What does one need an offset RD for when bench shooting?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Unless your just trying for precision, 300 yards and in would be ideal for a red dot and magnifier.

Other than that, the skies the limit as far as power. Just cause you have it, doesn’t mean you have to use it. But if you stretch past 300, you MIGHT ask why you didn’t get more magnification.

I stretch my 18 inch gas gun to 5 and 600, I like zooming in some cause I’m old and a terrible shot to begin with

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

If you can spend a little more, I would look at the MK5 2-10. This gives you parallax adjustment to actually be able to clearly see what you are shooting at.

The LPVO's work, but are more for fighting guns where speed is critical. But on max magnification the eyebox sucks and the sight picture is compromised. The 2-10 solves this.

 

[db2000]

Helos G2 BTR 2-12 is a great scope if you don’t mind Chynesium. One may have just sold for $350 in the PX. May still be available. 10y parallax, easy reticle and decent illumination.

 

[Jack_L]

If you're just doing bench and prone, for $1200 I would recommend getting something more in the mid-range magnification area.
There are some great options in the Buy-Sell-Trade here right now:
Burris XTR 3 5.5-30x56
NXS 3.5-15x50 Mil Dot
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x MRAD
Vortex Viper HD 5-25x50 FFP MRAD
That's just with a quick look, many more out there.
If you don't have a need for close-range/RDS type use, and will be shooting from stable positions, most shooters would prefer to have some additional magnification and easy elevation adjustment.

 

[Entreri]

For what you intend to use it for i would stay away from an LPVO.
I have a similar setup (16") with a Kahles 1-6 and 12 o'clock reddot... everytime i'm at the range or out hunting with it i wish i had a higher magnification scope on it. Especially with the reddot on top i feel like an LPVO is kind of a waste. The only reason i haven't switched optics yet is that i love the Kahles, it's the best piece of glas i have, but just not ideal for what i do with the rifle.
A 2-10 or possibly something in the 3-15 range would be ideal in my opinion. I have a couple of Viper PST Gen 2 3-15s on other rifles that I'm quite happy with and could see working well on a 18" AR.

 

[Redlion]

What does one need an offset RD for when bench shooting?

For that unexpected assailant within 75 yards.

 

[flogxal]

What does one need an offset RD for when bench shooting?

This is what happens when redditors buy firearms. They look up "what's hot right now" and assume that their research is solid gold for all situations. They are afraid to say "I'm a rookie and don't know diddly squat, please inform me."

Not saying you are the rookie here, Tony. Just answering your rhetorical Q!

Offset RDS is great for an actual utility rifle but is useless for a range rifle shot bench/prone. In that situation it's just like fake chrome side pipes on a car whose exhaust exits at the rear.

To the OP -- if you are shooting bench/prone at the range with .223/5.56, and hope to stretch to 300, 400, 500 yds if available, then an MPVO without the adjacent RDS would be a good call. 3-9x if you are young with strong distance vision, or something like 2-12x (or more) if your eyes are old and tired.

LPVO is a great all around optic but not great for bench/prone. Most folks upthread have explained why.

 

[roostercogburn98]

For that unexpected assailant within 75 yards.

aka “Fast Freddy”

Except 75 yards instead of 50 yards, so maybe “moderately fast freddy”

 

[Thorbeast]

I would not buy a LPVO for bench shooting. I have a bunch and I never shoot them from a bench. You'll be much more comfortable with a 3-15/4-16.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

For that unexpected assailant within 75 yards.

The ones that often hang out downrange at the local gun club? You'd think those guys would learn..

This is what happens when redditors buy firearms. They look up "what's hot right now" and assume that their research is solid gold for all situations. They are afraid to say "I'm a rookie and don't know diddly squat, please inform me."

Not saying you are the rookie here, Tony. Just answering your rhetorical Q!

Yeah that's what I was getting at. The amount of people that go to ranges looking all kitted out for WW3 only to plop down at a bench and not even touch any of the gadgets bolted to the rifle is pretty astounding.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I'm building my first AR-15 (JP, 18") and would greatly appreciate some optics recommendations. I'm planning on shooting mostly bench (some prone) at 25, 100, and 300yds. Budget is max $1200 (unless you make a convincing enough case).

Right now it seems like my options for this setup are either a 1-6 or 1-8 LPVO, or something like a 2-10 possibly with an offset RD. I'd love to hear any advice for this!

1-6x is really the sweet spot for LPVO imho.

 

[TonyAngel]

1-6x is really the sweet spot for LPVO imho.

I agree. All of these manufacturers completely missed the mark with all of the effort they've put into chasing 1-8x and 1-10x first focal plane LPVOs. The NX8 and PLX c could have been real winners, given their form factor, if they just engineered them to be 1-6x second focal plane scopes with etched reticles.

@OP, if you really want an LPVO, what I'd be looking at is the 1-6x credo with the etched segmented circle bdc reticle. Its a very nice scope. Still, an LPVO isn't the best choice for precision shooting from a bench or prone. A $1000 2-10x will beat out a $2000 LPVO in terms of usability.

Also, forget about the offset red dot. That's mostly for running and gunning, stand up shooting type stuff. I have, however, found running a 12 o'clock dot to be useful for getting on target when I'm dialed up.

For your stated purpose, I'd go with a 2-10x of some flavor. There are a few good options. I run a 2.5-10x Leupold Mark 4HD. It is a very comfortable scope to get behind. I use mils, so I have the TMR reticle. It isn't the greatest reticle, but the scope as a package is nice. I love it more every time I get behind it.

Although it lacks a parallax adjustment, I haven't missed it for shooting out to 800. The depth of field is incredible and focus hasn't been an issue at all.

 

[db2000]

I agree. All of these manufacturers completely missed the mark with all of the effort they've put into chasing 1-8x and 1-10x first focal plane LPVOs. The NX8 and PLX c could have been real winners, given their form factor, if they just engineered them to be 1-6x second focal plane scopes with etched reticles.

@OP, if you really want an LPVO, what I'd be looking at is the 1-6x credo with the etched segmented circle bdc reticle. Its a very nice scope. Still, an LPVO isn't the best choice for precision shooting from a bench or prone. A $1000 2-10x will beat out a $2000 LPVO in terms of usability.

Also, forget about the offset red dot. That's mostly for running and gunning, stand up shooting type stuff. I have, however, found running a 12 o'clock dot to be useful for getting on target when I'm dialed up.

For your stated purpose, I'd go with a 2-10x of some flavor. There are a few good options. I run a 2.5-10x Leupold Mark 4HD. It is a very comfortable scope to get behind. I use mils, so I have the TMR reticle. It isn't the greatest reticle, but the scope as a package is nice. I love it more every time I get behind it.

Although it lacks a parallax adjustment, I haven't missed it for shooting out to 800. The depth of field is incredible and focus hasn't been an issue at all.

The PLX 1-8 is incredible for what it is. The C just improved on it supposedly. I haven’t used it but the original is killer. True 1x. Griffin reticle and horseshoe is daylight bright illumination and super easy to get behind on 1x. It isn’t intended for benchrest and definitely didn’t miss its mark. Glass is great but it’s heavy. Built like a tank so, again, what it’s intended for. 8x is basically for if you really needed it with the tree hash marks at distance. He needs an MPVO as you’ve said. That doesn’t change how great the PLX is though.

 

[thedude824]

I’m just astounded people are recommending a LPVO for an 18” gun that will be shot from a bench or prone.. seriously? I guess recommending a red dot would be worse, but not by much.
If Im shooting from a bench or prone then my goal is precision and small groups. The two optics I’ve used and recommend are the NightForce NX8 2.5-20x and the Steiner T6xi 2.5-15x. The 20x on the NightForce is nice, but the 34mm tube on the Steiner (vs 30mm on the NightForce) definitely has its advantages. I think I paid $1400 for the NightForce and $1179 for the Steiner. They are at the top of your budget, but I think you’ll be very pleased. Both of these are incredible at their price point and you will pay significantly more for an upgrade to either of these (such as a Vortex Razor or NightForce ATACR). I have two NX8’s on two of my 6.5 Grendels. The third wears the Steiner. My only 566 guns are run and gun type guns with 14.5” barrels and both wear LPVO’s. In my case 6x isn’t sufficient to shoot sub MOA groups at 100 yards. I know others will say they can shoot the flies off of a horses ass with a 3x magnifier. I can’t nor have I ever seen or met anyone in person who claims they can shoot small groups at 100 yards with anything below 9x. Buy once cry once is most applicable when discussing optics.

 

[MontanaMan]

If you want an LVPO, then buy one of many; I like the Sig Tango's.

If you want something a bit bigger, the Nightforce SHV 3-10 is my favorite step up option.

MM

 

[flogxal]

1-6x is really the sweet spot for LPVO imho.

And in addition to the excellent Trijicon Credo / Credo HX 1-6 there's the Delta Stryker 1-6. The Delta is very nice. I have several Credo MPVOs and the Delta's glass, reticle quality, etc. is easily the equal, and does not have the warm-ish tint of Credo glass.

I have a Steiner P4Xi 1-4x as well. I shoot the LPVOs bench & prone sometimes, but it always feels like "roughing it in" or doing a sketch of a serious shot. Not enough magnification to choose a small point on the target for POA.

 

[FRESHPRINCE556]

Spend a little more and get a used nf nx8 2.5-20 or a nf atacr 4-16 off the hide . The nf atacr 4-16 being my top choice for a 556 mk12 type platform. My lpvo's are on rifles I have set up for run and gun.

 

[Jsp556]

Used Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR2’s and XRS2’s are gems as well and can be found sub $1k if you have cash on hand and have patience. If it’s just a bench gun you’ll appreciate the magnification. I like my XRS2 with the H59 better than my NX8 4-32 for shooting off a bench in non dusk/dawn times.

 

[TonyAngel]

The PLX 1-8 is incredible for what it is. The C just improved on it supposedly. I haven’t used it but the original is killer. True 1x. Griffin reticle and horseshoe is daylight bright illumination and super easy to get behind on 1x. It isn’t intended for benchrest and definitely didn’t miss its mark. Glass is great but it’s heavy. Built like a tank so, again, what it’s intended for. 8x is basically for if you really needed it with the tree hash marks at distance. He needs an MPVO as you’ve said. That doesn’t change how great the PLX is though.

We're getting off on a bit of a tangent here, But I don't agree that PA hit the mark with the original PLX LPVO. Again, I think they missed the mark.

Going to an LPVO is a part of a progression. You start with a red dot. You need more magnification. You add a magnifier, but there isn't much magnification and magnifiers suck. The rig is also starting to get heavy for what it is. So, you go to an LPVO.

The ideal LPVO should add significant capability with little sacrifice in terms of size and weight, when compared to a red dot/magnifier setup. I just don't see how you can say that an LPVO that is a foot long and weighs around 34 oz with a decent mount hit the mark. My MPVO setup with a piggyback red dot is just about as long, but weighs significantly less and has more capability.

 

[RUTGERS95]

We're getting off on a bit of a tangent here, But I don't agree that PA hit the mark with the original PLX LPVO. Again, I think they missed the mark.

Going to an LPVO is a part of a progression. You start with a red dot. You need more magnification. You add a magnifier, but there isn't much magnification and magnifiers suck. The rig is also starting to get heavy for what it is. So, you go to an LPVO.

The ideal LPVO should add significant capability with little sacrifice in terms of size and weight, when compared to a red dot/magnifier setup. I just don't see how you can say that an LPVO that is a foot long and weighs around 34 oz with a decent mount hit the mark. My MPVO setup with a piggyback red dot is just about as long, but weighs significantly less and has more capability.

RT6 was the best lpvo for glass, simplicity, durability, size/weight imho. anything more you're better off going 2-10x or more. agree with you the LPVO is a progression but feel it suits more than 90% of the pool well.

 

[higginsworksforme]

I don't think you'll get much use out of a secondary red dot if you're bench shooting.

 

[357Max]

For bench type shooting I’d recommend something in the 3-18 range.

If your dead set on LPVO The Athlon Ares 1-10 is a real sleeper for this application. Surprisingly good glass, eye box, FOV, reticle. Has locking turrets & zero stop. A little on the heavy side with it’s 34mm tube @26.9oz. Center dot is a little bigger than ideal for precision paper punching, but that’s not it’s purpose. The one time I shot prone for group it did not hold me back.

Mine is paired with an ARC air brace 20moa for total package weight of 30.9oz.

For what you can buy the Ares for on Expert voice it’s the best value LPVO IMO.

Recommendation aside. I prefer a 3-18 range optic for an 18” AR. I have XTR 3’s, MK5, & Steiner in that range. I do like to run offset red dots in this range. Main use for the dot is to leave scope on higher power settings, dot on target and drop into scope. That’s for positional PRS type shooting.

If size/weight is high on the list GPO Centari 4-16 is worth a look @20oz & 9.9”

Vortex PST2 2-10 is often overlooked but a solid reliable scope with parallax adj.

For 2-10 & 4-16 I use offset irons instead of dot.

Ares ETR 1-10x24 ATMR3 FFP IR MIL | LPVO | Athlon Optics

The Ares ETR 1-10x24 FFP Scope is a great option for short to long range shooting. Loaded with options that will be sure to take you to the next level.

athlonoptics.com

 

[STLslug]

Thanks for all of the input! I do think I'm leaning towards a 2-10. Anyone have any experience with 2/2.5x at 25yds? Too much magnification issues?

 

[Redlion]

For bench type shooting I’d recommend something in the 3-18 range.

If your dead set on LPVO The Athlon Ares 1-10 is a real sleeper for this application. Surprisingly good glass, eye box, FOV, reticle. Has locking turrets & zero stop. A little on the heavy side with it’s 34mm tube @26.9oz. Center dot is a little bigger than ideal for precision paper punching, but that’s not it’s purpose. The one time I shot prone for group it did not hold me back.

Mine is paired with an ARC air brace 20moa for total package weight of 30.9oz.

For what you can buy the Ares for on Expert voice it’s the best value LPVO IMO.

Recommendation aside. I prefer a 3-18 range optic for an 18” AR. I have XTR 3’s, MK5, & Steiner in that range. I do like to run offset red dots in this range. Main use for the dot is to leave scope on higher power settings, dot on target and drop into scope. That’s for positional PRS type shooting.

If size/weight is high on the list GPO Centari 4-16 is worth a look @20oz & 9.9”

Vortex PST2 2-10 is often overlooked but a solid reliable scope with parallax adj.

For 2-10 & 4-16 I use offset irons instead of dot.

Ares ETR 1-10x24 ATMR3 FFP IR MIL | LPVO | Athlon Optics

The Ares ETR 1-10x24 FFP Scope is a great option for short to long range shooting. Loaded with options that will be sure to take you to the next level.

athlonoptics.com

EuroOptic has the Ares on sale at 50% off.

$529.99 $1,062.49 (50% off)

 

[357Max]

EuroOptic has the Ares on sale at 50% off.

That's close to expert voice price.
IMO at that price point, it smokes everything else.
Mine is on a 16" & I have 1400y on the dial with the 6moa mount. I'll never shoot it that far, but at 1000y it's still super and 9.7 mil. Furthest I've shot it so far is 600y and it was 3.9 mil. No issues seeing impacts at 600y with this glass.
.223 misses @ 600 on the other hand is where that 18x is very helpful.

 

[TonyAngel]

RT6 was the best lpvo for glass, simplicity, durability, size/weight imho. anything more you're better off going 2-10x or more. agree with you the LPVO is a progression but feel it suits more than 90% of the pool well.

Oh, the RT6. Reminds me of a simpler time. Need an LPVO with a useful reticle, RT6. Need a bright as sh!t dot, Gen 2 PST. Didn't need to think about it.

I love talking optics. There are so many that 10 guys can express an opinion and everyone could be right.

Since the OP obviously doesn't have a clue (not a dispersion, we've all been there), maybe what he needs to do is dip his toe with a less expensive optic and learn what HE needs. Athlon Helos BTR 2-12x. Everyone should have one.

Throw that into a Leupold Mark AR mount and he's inti a rig for what? $500 or $600, and he has an option to add a red dot if he finds he needs it.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Oh, the RT6. Reminds me of a simpler time. Need an LPVO with a useful reticle, RT6. Need a bright as sh!t dot, Gen 2 PST. Didn't need to think about it.

I love talking optics. There are so many that 10 guys can express an opinion and everyone could be right.

Since the OP obviously doesn't have a clue (not a dispersion, we've all been there), maybe what he needs to do is dip his toe with a less expensive optic and learn what HE needs. Athlon Helos BTR 2-12x. Everyone should have one.

Throw that into a Leupold Mark AR mount and he's inti a rig for what? $500 or $600, and he has an option to add a red dot if he finds he needs it.

great post!

 

[flogxal]

.223 misses @ 600 on the other hand is where that 18x is very helpful.

That's exactly my issue with little pills at distance. Can you see the splash well at max magnification? 18x makes it possible, 14x works for me too, 12x it gets tough. 9x and the splash better be good.

 

[Jack_L]

Thanks for all of the input! I do think I'm leaning towards a 2-10. Anyone have any experience with 2/2.5x at 25yds? Too much magnification issues?

No, 2-2.5 x is nowhere near "too much" at 25 yds.
What *can* get you at 25 yards is lack of parallax adjustment, especially due to the fact that the closer you are the worse the parallax effect will be.

Here's some context:
One discipline I shoot is PRS Rimfire. I use a 5-27x optic, and that magnification range is very common in the sport. I won't get into the whole "why" of that, but the relevant part is that we will be shooting targets anywhere from 20 yards to 350 yards. Targets inside 75 yards that matter will generally be pretty small, as in about 1/2 MOA. I will generally be at 12-16x for 95% of stages, and while I will generally NOT adjust magnification, I will definitely be adjusting parallax for close targets. Generally speaking, I will rarely "mag down" when transitioning targets, instead relying on good target indexing and landscape references to get on target fast, and with enough magnification to see what I need to see.

On your use:
Don't be afraid to get a higher magnification optic. You don't have to run it at max magnification, and in fact most of us will be using higher magnification optics in their mid-range. So, while you can easily dial down to 10x with a 25x max variable, you can't dial up to 25x with a 12x max variable. Higher magnification helps a lot in spotting misses and reading plate impacts. I can spot .22 holes in a white background target at 300 yards at 15x. I can't do that reliably at 10x, even with really good glass.

Frankly, there isn't much to do at 25 yards with a centerfire rifle from a stable position, other than maybe initial sight-in just to get on paper at 100. Once you do that, everything worth doing is 100+.