Well, look into the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. The Muslims gave Hitler 5 Brigades. I think the only conclusion anyone can draw is that basically everyone in that region despised the joos.
When I see things like this, I'm certain we need another civil war. It's beyond time to eliminate these folks.
- Thread starter Hecouldgoalltheway
- Start date
Like hell.
Look, it's real simple. There's false religions and there's fake Christianity. Christianity proper is defined by a person submitting to God as their master of their life, they don't choose their ways and ideas anymore they choose to obey and follow His as laid out in context of scripture. They follow Jesus as their king and master, the second person of the triune God described in the text who put on human flesh and succeeded everywhere Adam failed us, and then laid down his life willingly as a sacrifice to atone for the sins of mankind, being the spotless lamb of God. (without sin) Finishing it on the cross as you can not earn or add to your salvation through him. You're in or you're out, your adopted or you're a child of your father the devil. (we all were, hence adoption) Being given a new heart and made a new creature or you're still just the old corrupt flesh spiritually dead.
So be it JW's, Mormons, Unitarians or dare I say and I do dare, Roman Catholics, they're all heretical for various and different reasons. Because they each reject Jesus and what he did in part of full, some even make up a completely false version of him. Genuine Christians look at the historical biblical Jesus/God and submit to Him. THAT's a Christian. Anything else no matter how much they scream they're a christian, they're not.
The only other group that counts, is Messianic Jews, they actually accept Jesus as their Messiah. So they're our brothers in Christ. But we are not them, and they are not us, we're gentiles grafted in (hence the adoption language). I could go on but I hope you get my point. There's a reason all the fakes try to incorporate either the Bible or a version of Jesus... because the genuine article is what gets faked.
The most fake may well be the prosperity gospel so prevalent in America.
I have no doubt that “we” have said things just as morally repugnant about “them…”
For instance, there was a ton of horrific and cruel posts directed at the parents of the Sandy Hook parents.
Should be easy to pull up more examples from other tragedies through a quick search.
It’s not like “we” have come forth virtuous, with clean hands, standing on some moral high ground relative to “them.”
This is America.
For instance, there was a ton of horrific and cruel posts directed at the parents of the Sandy Hook parents.
Should be easy to pull up more examples from other tragedies through a quick search.
It’s not like “we” have come forth virtuous, with clean hands, standing on some moral high ground relative to “them.”
This is America.
Last edited:
So it's ok then?
I've, maybe not so oddly disagreed with every comment I've ever seen you make. You're a liberal trying to pass yourself off as something else. It's pretty obvious.
Hitler was NOT this Christian fundamentalist that so many people make him out to be. Yeah, he was baptized, but that doesn't really mean anything due to him being a baby and having no choice in the matter. Under his rule he didn't exactly wanna abolish Christianity all together, but rather he wanted to defund it and let it die out on it's own. He saw organized religion as a distraction and unneeded. It's not uncommon at all for Socialist leaders like him to be secular or even atheist. Just look at Saddam Hussein, Bashar al-Assad, Kim Jong Un, or Fidel Castro.
IF we wanna play that game, the biggest mass murders of the 20th century were hard core Atheists (sorry Hitler and those Christians only got 3rd place, no sprinkles!).
The people who STOPPED hitler were largely CHristian (even though Stalin didn't let his people worship--there were a lot of Russian Orthodox around)
And one of the drivers to end apartheid was the Anglican Church of Africa led by Bishop Tutu.
Also you obviously have no idea what an Evangelic Christian is. Most Germans were mainline protestant.
Now go away before I taunt you a second time. (And a reminder, when you judge people by the their group, you're basically a socialist scum--Do we judge gun owners by the worst gun owners? Hmmmmmm. Do we judge cops by the worst cops? Oh wait scratch that last one).
I am sorry but your statements about the Bible show a lack of understanding of Bibliology, Canonicity, and textual criticism. The OT was written in Hebrew and Aramaic, the New Testament in Greek. Any translation is based of the original Hebrew and Greek texts, which we have many thousands of copies of. I am assuming you from a tradition that held strictly to the KJV, so that maybe part of your misunderstanding of Bible translations. Further, when you say entire chapters are missing and things added intentionally in order to control the population, can you please sight what chapters and concepts to which you are referring? If you are attempting to reference the differences of the apocryphal text between Catholic and Protestant Bibles, I think you have a profound misunderstanding about that whole subject. So please elaborate and reference what you mean because broad, unspecific claims with such reaching implications need to be specifically referenced.
Also the Nazis and Christian discussion (this is not directed to you Heouldgoalltheway): The entire question of how such evil was committed by seemingly common people has multiple levels to it, and my point is not to get into the anthropological, sociological, or physiological answers here. What I would like to address is the Church in German and its support for the Nazi party. The first issue is the Lutheran church in Germany was very much a church of the state. Just like Rome was, the Anglican Church was in England, and the Swiss reformed church under Huldrych Zwingli (go read some stories about that). The point is when the church is closely connected to the centers of power of the state, the state will leverage the institutional church to support their ends. This is what happened in Germany. So to say the Christians in Germany supported Nazism is kind of a misnomer, it was the institutional power of the church that backed the state. Buy not everyone supported this. Reading the story of Dietrich Bonhoeffer helps illustrate all this.
Sir, I have no intention of engaging you in a biblical debate. You win, I forfeit.
The apocrapha, the lost books, some are in if you go to this church but across the street those are out. The lost books were and still are excluded. There is no evidence to support my claim that things were added, just my lifetime observing human nature. I've seen nothing in 15th century kings that would lead me to believe they were beyond suspicion, nor any monarch from any other time or place. At one time I spoke a handful of languages, and I can promise you that by the time you translate something a couple of times, you've entirely lost the original message. There is no direct translation for so darn many cultural terms, an unbelievable number of words, on and on. They cannot be correctly conveyed no matter who is doing it, it's just not how it works. So when you hit those spots where a direct translation cannot be achieved, someone had to make a judgement call and get it as close as they could. Again, that's a lot of faith in humans. Have you met many of them? I think they got most of the intent correct, but it is not the infallible word of God, in my opinion. I am no biblical scholar, I just don't trust people.
Part of this is usually more a heart matter than intellectual one, though sometimes a bit of both.
The intellectual answers are out there if you really want them the work has been done. What I usually find is people have more of a heart issue with trusting what Jesus said. Let’s grant a falsehood in my view, let’s say some text were messed with sufficiently well to have survived scrutiny and gotten spread around sufficiently to have an impact. (This has kind of happened but that’s a nuanced comment and I probably shouldn’t have even made it but trying to be 100% honest and transparent as well)
If you trust what Jesus alone said and taught, you have a problem. Because if Jesus was who he claimed to be, and said even close to what he said. There’s a conflict, either he’s not who he said he was or this issue you believe to be there isn’t as prevalent or existent as you think.
There are twisting and perverted translations like the watch tower uses. But I can still use their messed with translated copies from various decades (they keep having to edit it over the decades as we keep using their own translation to destroy their theology) to disprove their theology, even now. On top of that they have to teach their cult to not look outside of itself for answers to their questions.
Believe me or don’t I’m just some guy online. But a few years ago I did about half a decade of studying intensely at the conclusion of which I surrendered to God, scariest thing I ever did. No complex attack, fire fight or anything came close.
The vatican helped all the nazis escape after the war. Cant get any more real than that. All modern day religion is is a way to extort and control people and touch kids (yes they are all false prophets). The bible has been retranscribed and rewritten so many times a Dr. Suess book is about as relevant. Its all made up with a few references to past events, distorted over the years into nonsense and camp fire stories. Having beliefs is one thing, normal, but when people base their life and lifestyles on them ... thats a mental disorder. The need and desire to be controlled or commanded by a imaginary higher power. Why do people want to be slaves? Why would one want a master? I worship no one, no one is my master. I think Jesus was a joke.... literally. Apparently he was never even written about till hundreds of years after he lived. And also could be the product of a roman soldier raping a women. We dismiss all logical explanations and jump to the "feel good" story. Why? He may have never even existed. One man, one story... Way less complex than WMD's that never existed either. The one simple answer to why all this exists and why people follow it.... Fear. Its kind of sad I think to be so driven by emotions that all logic escapes... but then again look how popular it is, all the lunatics that are freaking out over politics and govt, voting with emotions, all the people that ran to get jabbed.....etc.. Its in out nature. Human flaw.
On a side note. Flooding in Texas I thought was pretty normal. I thought a dam broke or something, but no, just heavy rain. Why were these people not aware of being on a flood plain? I would imagine living in an area and the geography, flood safety would be taught regularly and approaching rain storms would be taken seriously. ??
This is why as Conservatives we get slaughtered by everyone.
You idiots infighting about everything .
A view was expressed about a threat to everything we believe in and hold dear . Every aspect of our lives as marginally Free Men .An individual stating that we are so assailed that maybe it's time to do something .
Conservatives : Welcome to the mosh pit .
This is why we are here . If Conservatives spent a quarter of the time and effort put into Keyboard Commando Ops into political activity????
Que the next expert on how I madeJesus cry .
You idiots infighting about everything .
A view was expressed about a threat to everything we believe in and hold dear . Every aspect of our lives as marginally Free Men .An individual stating that we are so assailed that maybe it's time to do something .
Conservatives : Welcome to the mosh pit .
This is why we are here . If Conservatives spent a quarter of the time and effort put into Keyboard Commando Ops into political activity????
Que the next expert on how I madeJesus cry .
Religion is the cause of most conflicts and wars for the past thousands of years. Get rid of religion, get rid or war. Thats how retarded the human population is, fighting and arguing over whos imaginary master is the best. The more 3rd world the country the more religious is it. It seems to follow the IQ level. The more intelligent ones understand that religion is a coping method invented for the weak to help them, and then theres those that use it to control. Its like a drug, small doses is harmless, but once you get into a buildings that cost millions and have followers, goofy costumes and rituals, no different than tweakers and just as dangerous if not more.
What was this thread about again? 
My grandfather on my mother's side was an otherwise brilliant man. German immigrant as a child in the '20's, he fought for the U. S. in WWII in the Pacific theater. After the war he earned his PhD in Anthropology, writing many books in multiple languages. A Fullbright Scholarship recipient as well, he ended his career teaching at Cal State, LA for the final couple of decades.
He believed exactly as you wrote.
I bet if he could come back to life for just an hour, he could give the greatest sermon that any human has ever heard.
Either way, you and I will believe that the other is forever lost in foolishness, and neither of us will change. I appreciate your input though, and if at any point you ever want to have a calm and non-judgmental conversation about why we believe the way that we do... I will be here. Otherwise I bid you a good day Sir.
This has to be one of the single stupidest things ever posted on the hide. Please tell me you are wearing a jesters hat or clown make up....
You may be right that religion has been the basis for numerous deadly wars over the course of documented world history. However, a nation not founded upon religious principles is doomed for very early collapse. A successful nation can't be built without a common belief/faith among it's people. Religions have come and gone over the course of history and they will continue to do so. I firmly believe that if our Christian country didn't continue to be Christian and continue to exhibit our "In God We Trust" motto, America would have been long gone before anyone of us were born.
You are citing pop scholarship people like Billy Carson who are 100% verifiability false. Jesus was not first written about 100s of years after he lived. How do we know, we have copies of the gospels that date to the first and second centuries. There is some debate on the dating of the Gospels, but most scholars would say they date from the first century AD. Heck we have first century letters from the church fathers who were reading and commenting on the NT writings. They could only be writing and commenting on the scriptures in the first century if the scriptures were already there. Sorry but to claim Jesus wasn’t written about till 100s of years after he lived is categorically and verifiably false.
Ok so at least you admit that. A belief based on no evidence is not a good one and requires a lot of faith. Also wouldn’t you rather embrace a belief that is supported by historical evidence?
Well the NT books all date from the first century AD, so well before the 15th century. Additionally the NT books and letters were never originally transmitted by kings. In fact it was illegal to be a Christian up until the 300s. The fact is all the original NT texts were transmitted by Christian scholars concerned with maintaining the original words of their Messiah/Christ and the words of the Apostles.
Were there monarchs that twisted the texts in the Middle Ages? Sure. But we know they twisted them because we have the original early manuscripts.
But that’s not how biblical translation works. They don’t base translations on previous translations, they go back to the original Greek manuscripts.
True yes with in any translation there is a certain level of interpretation, but that does not mean we do not know what was meant. Koine Greek (what the NT is written in) is not like Sanskrit. Koine (which means common) Greek is probably one of the most widely spoken and circulated languages in antiquity. In fact it was more widely used and spoken in the Roman Empire than Latin. What that means is we have a massive body of contemporaneous sources that can help us translate and understand the mean of words. Add in the fact that Greek is still a living language that has been spoken for thousands of years, and it makes translation much easier.
How do you say you have room temp IQ without saying you have room temp IQ? Its stupid because you dont understand logic and common sense. Not everything is about feelings and emotions. Usually the people that get angry are the ones that use religion to take advantage of others.
Interesting because communism holds your same belief, calling religion the opioid of the people. However it is the atheistic communists who have killed many more millions of people in their own countries than any religious war.
Further it is dumb to say most wars are started because of religion. Most wars are started because of resources and land, not religion. Now the powers that be will often leverage religion to their ends to secure said resources , but it’s not the cause. Actually it is Christianity that has ended a number of wrongs, the transatlantic slave trade being a big one
Ukraine? China ? Mexican Cartels ?
US Southern Border ? Soros ? Rockefeller ? Rothschild ? Vietnam ? Korea ? US Civil War ? French Indian War ? 1812 ?
One doesnt have to have religion to have good principles and beliefs. Its used as a threat by those in power and for the weak its a replacement for personal accountability. I do agree with you, out of all of them and if they are determined to have to adhere to a religion the better of them all is christian. Its one thing to have principles, morals, and a guideline, but if people need the threat of a higher power in order to abide by them, they are a shitty person. I believe in doing good things and being a good person because thats who I am. Those that turn to god or jesus as a reason to be a good person scare me. Sadly its not the the same world as it was when our country was founded. All religious values have left the US. No one has pride anymore, do as little as they can to get by. Greed plagues us everywhere, every company. Envy is out of control, look at social media. Lust.. lol. What is marriage? I dont know anyone married anymore its crazy. Like 99% of kids before they graduate HS have had sex with multiple people. Gluttony and sloth... just walk through walmart. Im blown away at the size of the youth today. I graduated in 94, maybe there were 2 fat people in the entire school, maybe 3-4 a little bigger.. Now I drive by a school getting out and its like a fat farm.
We lost this battle.... no religion is going to fix it.
The crusades been going on for over a thousand years.... and still resonates today.
European Wars of Religion
French Wars of Religion
Thirty Years' War
Toggenburg War
Israel-Palestine conflict
- Pre-Reformation wars:
- The Oldcastle Revolt (1414) in England[16] (sometimes considered to have "foreshadowed the wars of religion"[17])
- The Hussite Wars (1419–1434) in the Lands of the Bohemian Crown
- Conflicts immediately connected with the Reformation:
- The Knights' War (1522–1523) in the Holy Roman Empire[18]
- The First Dalecarlian Rebellion (1524–1525) in Sweden.
- The German Peasants' War (1524–1526) in the Holy Roman Empire[18]
- The Second Dalecarlian Rebellion (1527–1528) in Sweden.
- The Wars of Kappel (1529–1531) in the Old Swiss Confederacy[19]
- The Tudor conquest of Ireland (1529–1603) on the Catholic population of Ireland by the Tudor kings of England and their Protestant allies
- The Kildare Rebellion (1534–1535)
- The First Desmond Rebellion (1569–1573)
- The Second Desmond Rebellion (1579–1583)
- The Nine Years' War (1593–1603)
- The Third Dalecarlian Rebellion (1531–1533) in Sweden.
- The War of Two Kings (1531–1532) in the Kalmar Union (Denmark and Norway)
- The Count's Feud (1534–1536) in the Kalmar Union (Denmark and Norway)
- The Münster rebellion (1534–1535) in the Prince-Bishopric of Münster
- The Anabaptist riot (1535) in Amsterdam[20]
- Olav Engelbrektsson's rebellion (1536–1537) in Norway
- Bigod's rebellion (1537) in England
- The Dacke War (1542–1543) in Sweden
- Conflicts after the death of Martin Luther:
- The Schmalkaldic War (1546–1547) in the Holy Roman Empire[18]
- The Prayer Book Rebellion (1549) in England
- The Battle of Sauðafell (1550) on Iceland
- The Second Schmalkaldic War or Princes' Revolt (1552–1555)[19]
- Wyatt's rebellion (1554) in England over Mary I of England's decision to marry the Catholic non-English prince Philip II of Spain. Mary's repression of the rebellion earned her the nickname "Bloody Mary" amongst Protestants.[21]
- The French Wars of Religion (1562–1598) in France[1][19]
- The Eighty Years' War (1566/68–1648) in the Low Countries[1][19]
- The Cologne War (1583–1588) in the Electorate of Cologne
- The Strasbourg Bishops' War (1592–1604) in the Prince-Bishopric of Strasbourg
- The War against Sigismund (1598–1599) in the Polish–Swedish union
- The Bocskai uprising (1604–1606) in Hungary and Transylvania
- The War of the Jülich Succession (1609–10, 1614) in the United Duchies of Jülich-Cleves-Berg[22]
- The Thirty Years' War (1618–1648), affecting the Holy Roman Empire including the Habsburg monarchy and Bohemia and Moravia, France, Denmark-Norway and Sweden[1][19]
- Bohemian Revolt (1618–1620) between the Protestant nobility of the Bohemian Crown and their Catholic Habsburg king. This revolt started the Thirty Years' War, causing additional conflicts elsewhere in Europe, and subsuming other already ongoing conflicts.
- Hessian War (1567–1648) between the Lutheran Landgraviate of Hesse-Darmstadt (member of the Catholic League) and the Calvinist Landgraviate of Hesse-Kassel (member of the Protestant Union)
- The Huguenot rebellions (1621–1629) in France[1]
- The Wars of the Three Kingdoms (1639–1653), affecting England, Scotland and Ireland[1]
- Bishops' Wars (1639–1640)
- English Civil War (1642–1651)
- Scotland in the Wars of the Three Kingdoms (1639–1652)
- Irish Confederate Wars (1641–1653) and the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland (1649–1653)[23]
- The post-Westphalian wars:[2]
- The Düsseldorf Cow War (1651) [24]
- The Savoyard–Waldensian wars (1655–1690) beginning with the Piedmontese Easter (Pasque piemontesi) of April 1655,[7][25] in the Duchy of Savoy
- The First War of Villmergen (1656) in the Old Swiss Confederacy[23][26]
- The Second Anglo-Dutch War (1665–1667) between England and the Dutch Republic[23]
- The Nine Years' War (1688–1697)[2]
- The Glorious Revolution (1688–1689)[2]
- The Williamite War in Ireland (1688–1691)[2]
- The Jacobite rising of 1689 in Scotland saw Roman Catholics and Anglican Tories supporting the deposed Catholic king James Stuart take up arms against the newly enthroned Calvinist William of Orange and his Presbyterian Covenanter allies; the religious component may be regarded as secondary to the dynastic factor, however.[27]
- The War of the Spanish Succession (1701–1714) across Europe had a strong religious component[2]
- The War in the Cevennes (1702–1710) in France[23]
- The Toggenburg War (Second War of Villmergen) (1712) in the Old Swiss Confederacy[23][26]
Hitler started Positive Christianity? Do you actually know what you're talking about or do you know a couple lines of some bullshit you like to repeat?
95% of the country was Christian, fyi.
They're not the real Christians like the dispensationalists and the scofield bible enthusiasts
Sir, there’s intellectual atheists that would mock you publicly for several claims you made here. Inform yourself there’s far better arguments for an atheist to make. Because frankly claims like the reliability of the text can be and have been objectively proven already.
So is this where the sign in sheet to join the revolution is located? Asking for a friend.
You can just throw a term like “positive Christianity” out there and not define what the crap you’re talking about and expect others to know what you’re saying. There is and has always only been one true gospel. Sure con artists can use scripture to do their thing no one’s saying they can’t, but that doesn’t mean the text says or means what they’re making it out to be. Context, history and cultural understanding from the time and location all matter and are rarely discussed.
It can all be corrected w/o that, and in a faster time frame. There would be push back by the FSA (free shit army) and those who are staying in power via them.
What is incorrect? Nothing has been proven, that is why it is called a "belief". A belief is not real, its a made up explanation for something we dont have an answer to. If it were a fact it wouldnt be a belief. Nothing has been proven. I know its difficult for people to accept they have been lied to forever in order to be controlled but that is factual.
Dude, with respect I think if you start railing against just about every other Christian group except yours, you might need to step back and think that the problem might be you. Especially your whole trying to blame "Christians" for "oh look Hitler".
What next are you going to start suggesting Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others where "Christian" now to advance your hatred for denominations that are not yours?
WWII Germany didn't have anything to do with religion nearly as much as simply the fact that the Germans much like the Japanese are very much a culture of "obey the government no matter what".
Also YOU and your denomination don't get to say who is "Christian" and not, If you believe in Jesus Christ and take His name upon you, you are "Christian" regardless of your doctrinal differences or differences in how you might understand God our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ His Son.
In your whole "messianic jews" screed you miss an important point right from your bible (or maybe it's missing from your translation)
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
There is no "Christian Jews" or "Gentile Christians", if you believe in Jesus Christ then it matters nothing about what other ethnicity you might claim.
There is no advantage or disadvantage either way and to try to say you are "more special" or "different" or "not them" or that it's "them and us" is wrong.
ALL are the same in Christ Jesus and bloodlines don't matter.
It's sad that you seem to have a lot of hatred and distain for other denominations not your own.
Some of those same ones you rail against are happy to call you fellow Christians and happy to join beside you in common goals even if there is a difference in understanding, because they understand that you don't have the fullness of the Gospel because of what you have been taught and that one day either in this life or the next life, those differences in understanding will all be made clear and all who will receive it will be given the fullness of the Knowledge of our Saviour Jesus Christ and God our Heavenly Father.
You'd probably find some of those you rail against actually are more accepting and more Christian and more Christ-like than it appears your own Denomination.
I don't agree with quite a few of your points on things, but I'm still happy to call you a fellow Christian if you believe in Jesus Christ and take His name upon you. Sure I'd like to help you see the fullness of the Restored Gospel, but if not, it's not a big deal because through faith in Jesus Christ, ALL who will believe in him will come unto him. It doesn't mean we have to agree on everything and accept each other's doctrines, but it means we should act as fellow Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Christ. You don't have to like everyone in your family, but they are your family and causing strive and contention in your family is never a good thing.
We interrupt this Holy War to remind you that religion is supposedly off topic.
We would also like to remind you there are "Good" Christians. There are "Bad" Christians. (see also Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc...)
There are "Good" Atheists and there are "Bad" Atheists.
When you start banding about "Relgions is the source of..." You show a total lack of knowledge of history.
Yes many wars have been started in the "name" of religion. It was about power. Its always about power. And for a bunch of freedom loving individualists, the generalizing of "classes" of people sounds downright Marxian.
Bunch o Bourgeosie Commie Faggots the lot of you. Not in general. Each of you...specifically.
We would also like to remind you there are "Good" Christians. There are "Bad" Christians. (see also Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc...)
There are "Good" Atheists and there are "Bad" Atheists.
When you start banding about "Relgions is the source of..." You show a total lack of knowledge of history.
Yes many wars have been started in the "name" of religion. It was about power. Its always about power. And for a bunch of freedom loving individualists, the generalizing of "classes" of people sounds downright Marxian.
Bunch o Bourgeosie Commie Faggots the lot of you. Not in general. Each of you...specifically.
Maybe on my lunch break or something I’ll have more time to respond but, you’re aware groups such as say JW’s who call themselves Christians, believe in a pantheon of “gods” and that they can become a god of their own little world right? I rail against groups such as these that claim to be something they’re not. And I don’t hate them, I hate their religion however as it’s a lie and perversion that will harm others.
Also I’m non-denominational as all denominations have error, some more serious than others, and the church isn’t supposed to split anyway and often things like say “Baptist” in the SE anyway means next to nothing now days with each having their own shotgun blast of beliefs. Some very new like this modern take on just skipping right over tribulation and this partial half return silliness of a rapture nonsense which conflicts with other scripture, and wasn’t ever a belief until the mid 1800s best I recall. I can go on but I gotta get back to work and will comment later.
Something interesting you might find is one day to get a Red Letter version of the KJV bible (or whatever translation you prefer).
Skim through and see how much of what is in the Bible is where the people writing it down said these are what Jehovah or Jesus Christ said directly.
Compared to how much of the rest is history, commentary, advice, learned and well respected religious figures talking and prophecies received by prophets.
Then compare how simple, straight forward and plain the text is on those directly spoken things.
Then compare it to some of the other parts which are a lot less straightforward and simple in their delivery.
That would have a big difference in how exactly things can be translated.
Also if you take for example the KJV bible which is widely regarded as one of the great translations, and compare it to the Geneva Bible (a different, earlier translation), you can see some pretty convincing evidence that while nobody "changed" anything, since the King was sponsoring and directing the "KJV" certain passages were "massaged" or "carefully translated" or "Specific words picked" to push the idea of submitting to the government and Kings as something you should be doing, and making Kings and rulers appear in a more favourable light...
Plus the original KJV had books in it that later "protestant types" pulled out.
Also, in response to @Mean_Man and
@cgbills
This last paragraph is exactly where my distrust comes from. Like I explained above, I am familiar with the translation process, and it requires human interpretation and judgement, neither of which are to be trusted. I walk with Jesus my own way, and while some folks may not agree with my beliefs, they don't require a consensus. I was saved and baptized in my youth, spent many years in church. I don't feel the pull to be part of a church family, nor do I feel the pull to have scripture interpreted for me. The idea of having someone else read something and then tell me what it says bothers me. In fact, I am very uncomfortable with that concept. The only thing I really know is that God has blessed me in this life more times than I can count. I am absolutely convinced that god has intervened in my life every single time I needed him to, and things have played out exactly the way they should. God has given me almost everything I've ever hit my knees and asked for, just not always in the time frame that I wanted it, and there is wisdom in that. I pay for my daughter to attend a private christian school and she will never attend public school. I believe children raised in a christian environment have a better chance than those who aren't. I will just say that I have absolute faith that there is a god, and I try to do as many things the way I think I should, and I'm happy to stay out of everyone else's way and them interpret the bible however they see fit.
I literally called the messianic Jews brothers in Christ… or I’m pretty sure I did and will scroll up to check.
Also just because someone believes, what does that mean? What did it mean to the author? And what does it mean in our common speech today aren’t necessarily the same. In scripture it generally means not just words but actions. As even the demons “believe”.
Just checked -
General site discussion, please refrain from posting religious topics. No hate speech or threats against others of any kind
Yep, still there.
We can all agree we must do something.
We can all agree we need to change culture for the better.
We can mostly I assume in this group of people agree Islam flooding into the west any further can’t continue.
Etc.
How we adress these things and fight the left and or some on the right that go to far are where the arguments are.
I have said what I have said because of the above. I don’t disagree that things need to be done. I disagree however for various reasons on why a civil Cold War shouldn’t become a hot one.
To be clear, my mention of a civil war is just hyperbole. I have no desire to see my friends and family deal with war on their doorsteps. I hope that never happens, but I think we get closer to it every day.
The most interesting books of the apocrypha are not those omitted at Nicaea. As a Christian who has been studying the canonical Bible and the Apocrypha for thirty plus years I find those books to be very unconvincing and obviously don't belong in the Cannon at all. Things like excluding first and second Maccabees are more meh. My proclivity would be to keep them in, but I can see why someone might think they were less important in the cannon. Anti-Christians like to make a big deal out of some of it (like the ridiculous writings of the Gnostics) as if there were some controversy, but these were as rejected and heretical in 325 as they are today. There was never any controversy in rejecting them as completely uninspired and the fodder for fringe cults. That some of it supports the pre-existing opinions of Atheists and anti-Christians is their only utility. When putting the cannon together, clearly these books did not belong, and you don't need to be some Bishop in 325 to easily determine that when reading them.
As far as translations, I'd say that we discuss, compare, and contrast the different ways the Bible is translated at least every other week. Unless you are fluent in Greek and Aramaic it is simply a fact that they have words with specific meanings that don't exist in singular words in English. The most widely known example of this is that in English we only have the word "love", but in Greek there are eight different words for love that have each have specific and unique meanings. They don't translate except into English phrases, which makes it harder to actually understand it. Going back constantly to the Greek or Aramaic is very common and typical in Bible study across the nation and across time. To believe this is some new or esoteric practice is as absurd, as to believe that there is malice or intent to deceive in the translators. To be sure, the deeper you go the more effort it takes, but we are literally commanded to delve ever deeper to understand. The Bible is shallow enough so you won't drown, and deep enough so you will never find the bottom.
What I find far, far, far more interesting are the books that were excluded a thousand years or more before Nicaea. They are the ones that the Rabis kept out of the Torah because of things like they mention or are fully about angels, which is blasphemy to Jews. When I read those books they seem to fit and dovetail perfectly with no major or minor departures from the rest of the Bible. Yet, they are not in our Bibles because they were excluded from Torah as heretical. Yet, the New Testament talks quite a bit about Angels and considers them almost unremarkable and a given, so it seems to me that revisiting some of the books that the Jews rejected is at the very least not a bad idea. They're all available online for free. I found "The Book of Noah", and "The Book of Enoch" both interesting and very thought provoking, especially how they dovetail with so much of the rest of the Old Testament. If you don't believe in angels, I can see why you would discard them. If you do, then they seem to fit right in.
Talking about "religion" as the cause for man's ills, is as silly (ignorant really) as blaming "government" for all man's ills, as if they were all the same thing, and there was no difference between any political ideas/ideologies or different forms of government. In the end it's the ideas that matter, so when one religion tells people to murder unbelievers, or that stealing is a godly act, and another to pray for your enemies; saying that the two are no different is false on its face, and makes you sound really dumb. Also, ascribing all man's proclivities and failings to religion, rather than our central problem (knowing right from wrong and still choosing wrong), also completely misses the mark and makes you sound ignorant like you are simply regurgitating the platitudes of someone with no depth of thought. All religions are an attempt to solve for man's failings through deeds and works by believing in a higher power...except for one. There's only one that says it's the very belief itself that offers a way out, and that actions don't earn you anything if they are not directly a result of that belief... THAT is pretty interesting when you compare and contrast the world's religions as a pure agnostic.
As far as translations, I'd say that we discuss, compare, and contrast the different ways the Bible is translated at least every other week. Unless you are fluent in Greek and Aramaic it is simply a fact that they have words with specific meanings that don't exist in singular words in English. The most widely known example of this is that in English we only have the word "love", but in Greek there are eight different words for love that have each have specific and unique meanings. They don't translate except into English phrases, which makes it harder to actually understand it. Going back constantly to the Greek or Aramaic is very common and typical in Bible study across the nation and across time. To believe this is some new or esoteric practice is as absurd, as to believe that there is malice or intent to deceive in the translators. To be sure, the deeper you go the more effort it takes, but we are literally commanded to delve ever deeper to understand. The Bible is shallow enough so you won't drown, and deep enough so you will never find the bottom.
What I find far, far, far more interesting are the books that were excluded a thousand years or more before Nicaea. They are the ones that the Rabis kept out of the Torah because of things like they mention or are fully about angels, which is blasphemy to Jews. When I read those books they seem to fit and dovetail perfectly with no major or minor departures from the rest of the Bible. Yet, they are not in our Bibles because they were excluded from Torah as heretical. Yet, the New Testament talks quite a bit about Angels and considers them almost unremarkable and a given, so it seems to me that revisiting some of the books that the Jews rejected is at the very least not a bad idea. They're all available online for free. I found "The Book of Noah", and "The Book of Enoch" both interesting and very thought provoking, especially how they dovetail with so much of the rest of the Old Testament. If you don't believe in angels, I can see why you would discard them. If you do, then they seem to fit right in.
Talking about "religion" as the cause for man's ills, is as silly (ignorant really) as blaming "government" for all man's ills, as if they were all the same thing, and there was no difference between any political ideas/ideologies or different forms of government. In the end it's the ideas that matter, so when one religion tells people to murder unbelievers, or that stealing is a godly act, and another to pray for your enemies; saying that the two are no different is false on its face, and makes you sound really dumb. Also, ascribing all man's proclivities and failings to religion, rather than our central problem (knowing right from wrong and still choosing wrong), also completely misses the mark and makes you sound ignorant like you are simply regurgitating the platitudes of someone with no depth of thought. All religions are an attempt to solve for man's failings through deeds and works by believing in a higher power...except for one. There's only one that says it's the very belief itself that offers a way out, and that actions don't earn you anything if they are not directly a result of that belief... THAT is pretty interesting when you compare and contrast the world's religions as a pure agnostic.
Exactly.
The Jewish leaders at the time were the first to "edit" the cannon to support what their religion had become and to ensure their power and control.
There was a lot of changes like that, for example calling the name of God during certain festival times which later on got moved to "hidden knowledge for only the chosen few" and such.
Democrats really are evil, awful people. I had a few former friends I worked with in the military that have become more and more vile after they retired. One of them now flies and American flag upside down at her house, dyed her hair purple, got a nose ring and screams constantly about nazis and her "reproductive rights". She is sterile, fixed after a couple of kids and her crotch had been pounded more times that Mike Tyson's speed bag.
She links her ranting to a chat group for retired unit members and occasionally I tell her to get a grip and stomp her stupid ranting. Last week one of her looney friends took the time to call me a nazi and to threaten me. She said," You posted using your real name and we know how to find you, you better start being careful." I was unkind in my reply and reminded her she can be found as well.
Cheering for children to die is par for the course for a democrat. They rooted for Hitler during WWII. While most politicians are absolute fucking scum, no matter the party we might take a minute to admire Lyndon Johnson. A democrat who raped a young Mexican student when he was a school teacher before getting elected to congress and fathered a child with her. Came to congress as the poorest member of congress in the early 1930's and was the richest member by August 1945. Bankrupted the nation during the Vietnam and left the presidency as one of the richest politicians in American history, having not done an honest days work in 40 years.
Next fall they will elect a communist, illegal immigrant as mayor of New York City. A man who has declared that he wants to end the "housing market" by eliminating all privately owned homes and apartments in the city. (It is clear he wants to stuff people in your home and force the former property owner to pay for their care and feeding) His dream is communal living where families share the kitchens, bathrooms, laundry rooms and get a bedroom or two for every four or five family members. Government groceries, from government controlled stores that will decide what you are allowed to eat and how much you pay for it. All based on race of course, he wants "white people" taxing at high rates while the browner you are the lower your taxes. Free reign for criminals and illegal immigrants and he wants no more local policing or arrests for crime. He wants to remove all federal law enforcement from the city, essentially creating a fiefdom within the United States.
This guy will win with 60% of the vote and oddly enough he will be funded by leftist billionaires who will not pay taxes or relinquish any property to his control after the election.
Fuck all democrats, especially the ones on snipershide.
She links her ranting to a chat group for retired unit members and occasionally I tell her to get a grip and stomp her stupid ranting. Last week one of her looney friends took the time to call me a nazi and to threaten me. She said," You posted using your real name and we know how to find you, you better start being careful." I was unkind in my reply and reminded her she can be found as well.
Cheering for children to die is par for the course for a democrat. They rooted for Hitler during WWII. While most politicians are absolute fucking scum, no matter the party we might take a minute to admire Lyndon Johnson. A democrat who raped a young Mexican student when he was a school teacher before getting elected to congress and fathered a child with her. Came to congress as the poorest member of congress in the early 1930's and was the richest member by August 1945. Bankrupted the nation during the Vietnam and left the presidency as one of the richest politicians in American history, having not done an honest days work in 40 years.
Next fall they will elect a communist, illegal immigrant as mayor of New York City. A man who has declared that he wants to end the "housing market" by eliminating all privately owned homes and apartments in the city. (It is clear he wants to stuff people in your home and force the former property owner to pay for their care and feeding) His dream is communal living where families share the kitchens, bathrooms, laundry rooms and get a bedroom or two for every four or five family members. Government groceries, from government controlled stores that will decide what you are allowed to eat and how much you pay for it. All based on race of course, he wants "white people" taxing at high rates while the browner you are the lower your taxes. Free reign for criminals and illegal immigrants and he wants no more local policing or arrests for crime. He wants to remove all federal law enforcement from the city, essentially creating a fiefdom within the United States.
This guy will win with 60% of the vote and oddly enough he will be funded by leftist billionaires who will not pay taxes or relinquish any property to his control after the election.
Fuck all democrats, especially the ones on snipershide.
Honestly that wasn’t entirely clear to me until just now. Especially with the comments some people make around here. Hence some of my strong comments. Glad you plainly stated that though.
Similar threads
