Neck Lubing Process with Dry Neck Lube?

kshea

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Jun 25, 2025
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Hey Everyone,

For those that use Imperial dry neck lube (the graphite with ceramic beads) when loading for precision, when are you applying it in your process? I've been dipping the neck in the dry neck lube before sizing the case (hopefully to reduce run/out friction from the expander ball). Then after I've trimmed, chamfer/deburred, and primed, I have been dipping the neck in the dry lube AGAIN before seating the bullet (I guess for a consistent seat?) .. Are y'all dry lubing before both of these steps? Or just once during the sizing and calling it good? Not sure whether I'm over lubing the neck, if that's even a thing?

I'll be switching to a separate expander die/mandrel soon, but the same question goes, would you dry lube before expanding the neck AND seating the bullet.

Curious your thoughts from all you experienced hand loaders. Thanks!
 
I used to use dry-lube, but have gotten much better results with NeoLube #2. I use a q-tip to lube the inside of the neck, "after" sizing/2nd-cleaning ... and "before" my mandrel expansion step. Then I leave the residual lube in place for my seating step, and that works great for me. I just didn't like getting graphite all over the outside of my case neck ... and with NeoLube like I use it, I get great seating force curves from my AMP Press.
 
Nothing wrong with your process, but I will add an answer you didn't ask about... just food for thought.

Since the graphite is potentially a weak coating method, the only way to "know" if it is making the seating force "better" is to measure it. That is still no guarantee the whole issue makes any difference to the overall performance, but at least you would know if you were getting anything back for the effort.

There is a lot of detail and work involved in the study of tribology and it is a topic full of variation and statistical dispersion. You have to be mentally prepared to stomach the issues. I am not telling you not to try, I am just encouraging you to be prepared to either measure or to be prepared to stomach the chaos of doing it blind.

Everything we do starting with buying the brass, how we clean, how we prep, etc., makes a potential improvement or can also ruin your performance.

Just adding a step like saying "I use graphite with ceramic media" doesn't mean your results are going to match amyone else's because you may be doing something that affects the coating up or downstream of that step.

Your vibe tumble media, any additives, the use of a pilot to neck turn/trim, your annealing, etc., are all going to have a potential to affect the graphite step. It isn't what folks like to hear, but I tend to let folks know and let them decide for themselves if they want to know more.

You could have a whole debate about the measurement methods and all those pros and cons of those techniques. However, unless you measure the seating force, there is no way to know if you are making any difference or making things worse or better with the graphite. Just food for thought. YMMV
 
Just adding a step like saying "I use graphite with ceramic media" doesn't mean your results are going to match amyone else's because you may be doing something that affects the coating up or downstream of that step.

You may or may not know how true this statement is. For the longest time, I had heard that you can't use dry graphite on annealed cases because it won't stick. Yet, I had been doing so since I started annealing and found no issues. After I got my AMP Press, I decided to delve into why.

Long story short, what I settled on as to the reason was that I use an ultrasonic cleaner and do a light rinse afterward. When I tried a heavy rinse, the seating force variability shot way up - indicating that the graphite was not there (or much of it). My theory is that the soapy residue from the ultrasonic solution was enabling the graphite to "stick" better.

Different upstream and downstream steps in a process can certainly impact other steps.
 
Hey Everyone,

For those that use Imperial dry neck lube (the graphite with ceramic beads) when loading for precision, when are you applying it in your process? I've been dipping the neck in the dry neck lube before sizing the case (hopefully to reduce run/out friction from the expander ball). Then after I've trimmed, chamfer/deburred, and primed, I have been dipping the neck in the dry lube AGAIN before seating the bullet (I guess for a consistent seat?) .. Are y'all dry lubing before both of these steps? Or just once during the sizing and calling it good? Not sure whether I'm over lubing the neck, if that's even a thing?

I'll be switching to a separate expander die/mandrel soon, but the same question goes, would you dry lube before expanding the neck AND seating the bullet.

Curious your thoughts from all you experienced hand loaders. Thanks!

Getting first an arbor press, and later an AMP Press has cost me countless hours and dollars testing... I won't say all things, but most of the important things associated with neck lube and items related to the seating step as a whole.

Here is a summary of what I found:

First and foremost, there is a distinct correlation between bullet seating force variability and muzzle velocity SDs. The impact may be small in some cases, but it is definitively there. It's only a guess, but I've probably shot 1000+ rounds of varying calibers trying different things in coming to this conclusion.

- Squeaky clean necks (inside) are, by far, the worst to seat in (unless you lube bullets)
- Using a mandrel is important
- With only a handful of exceptions, while certain lubes deliver superior results to others, though all forms of lubrication are relatively close.
- That said, if you're going lube, why not use the best. The only argument against this is either not cleaning your brass, brushing the necks and using the residual carbon as a lube, or tumbling in walnut, as that will provide some level of coating. I did find that neither delivered as good results as a lubricant.
- Of the dry lubes, moly gave me the best results, followed by graphite. They were very close - though see the post above about graphite.
- I tried HBN and it was not good - I'm not sure why
- I found that Neolube would give slightly more consistent results over dry lube, but always seemed to give a small number of "flyers" that sort of evened things out.
- I find that dipping cases in Neolube and wiping the outside is the fastest for me - though many others prefer "painting" the insides of the necks as it uses up less lubricant. I tried measuring painting vs dipping, and dipping yielded superior results, but it was also the first time I had tried painting, so I'm willing to believe that had an effect.
- I do lube both before using a mandrel and after and have tested using/not with multiple combinations both before and after. The double-lubed cases performed a little better. Was it enough to justify a separate step? Only each individual can answer that - time is more important to some than others and some people produce more ammo than others. It makes sense that doubling would perform a little better as the mandrel will scrape off some of whatever lube you use. This is exemplified by the buildup of lube on mandrels after use.

As to your question about over-lubing the neck, with dry lube I don't believe there's any such thing.
 
I do all my cleaning, resizing, chamfer/debur/trim, prime and then i use moly dry lube on a qtip inside the neck, then run them in the expander mandrel, throw my powder in the case and then seat the bullet.
 
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I body size, then dip into imperial with the balls, then mandrel, then trim chamfer and deburr. Before seating, I will dip them again. This is the process that I’ve found works best for me to get best accuracy and lowest SD’s. This process eliminates flyers from optimized loads.

-ZA
 
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Also…. You need to lube the necks prior to using a mandrel. If you don’t the brass will gall onto the mandrel over time and build up. The expanding force goes up and seating force is inconsistent. I tried this and then had to eventually let my mandrel soak in a de-coppering agent for a few days because it had become rough on the outside. Once I did this, the decoppering agent was purple and the mandrel was back to being super slick.

-ZA
 
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I have had good results using two lube materials, with similar application methods. Moly powder suspended in GunScrubber2 or lanolin dissolved in xylene and applied to the inside of the necks with a q-tip. Cases are held upside down, placed in a loading tray and placed in a warm (not hot) oven. The carrier liquid quickly evaporates off leaving a thin uniform layer of lube. To clean off residue from prior firing I run a rotating bronze brush through the necks after ultrasonic cleaning and SS pin tumbling with ultrasonic solution and before coating, which is the last step prior to powder loading and bullet seating.

I have to wonder about all the testing of bullet seating curves . . . Has anyone drilled out the base of a few cases, made a jig simulating the end/shoulder area of a cartridge to hold the case upside down and tried to obtain pressure curve of bullet RELEASE from cases? I would make a jig (and drill out cases if required) if someone with the measuring equipment is interested in doing this and sharing data.
 
There seems to be a handful of variables that would need to be absolutely controlled to draw any meaningful conclusion on which process works best. Neck wall thickness, annealing consistency, die and mandrel dimensions, lot to lot variation, etc. Short of having an arbor press and seating pressure indication, I am using a very simple Forster stepped neck ID gauge and getting a feel for net neck tension, and don’t get overly concerned about removing or rebooting remaining Redding dry neck lube on/off cases. SD’s in single digits in a handful of 6.5 GR/CM semiautos.
IMG_0612.jpeg
 
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@Rocketmandb i recently used a mandrel on 50 new cases without lube and that was a big mistake. Seating with an arbor die I could feel how much higher my seating force was and stopped after 2 rounds and lubed with one shot on a foam applicator which helped lower the resistance.

When you use neolube on a fired case do clean the brass completely clean so it’s like virgin brass? Or do you have carbon residual with the Neolube dip? I’m curious about that detail as you’ve done so much testing.
 
@Rocketmandb i recently used a mandrel on 50 new cases without lube and that was a big mistake. Seating with an arbor die I could feel how much higher my seating force was and stopped after 2 rounds and lubed with one shot on a foam applicator which helped lower the resistance.

When you use neolube on a fired case do clean the brass completely clean so it’s like virgin brass? Or do you have carbon residual with the Neolube dip? I’m curious about that detail as you’ve done so much testing.
I use neolube dipped ear swabs after corn cob tumbling so leaving carbon residual in the neck.
going to try swab-it bore swabs next time
 
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I use One Shot when FL sizing and spray inside of necks (at an angle) for mandrel/expander ball (I do wipe a bit of Imperial on the mandrel occasionally when doing this cause I’m a belt and suspenders guy 😜😂)

But not as a neck lube for bullet seating. I’ve used Imperial graphite and it works and not that messy, IMO. But I’ve gone to Neo Lube based on @Rocketmandb posts. I’ve dipped and painted with q-tip but didn’t see and difference and find a-tip to be far less messy (note, I don’t have an arbor press that measures seating force…just going by chrono data).

Hey, as my friend told his shrink when asked what he thought an obsession was replied “eh, something to do?” 🤣🤣

P.S. - I tumble in walnut media and inside of necks are pretty clean.
 
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Imperial dry neck lube (the graphite with ceramic beads)
I've used this for a couple of years & don't bother anymore. Application on new brass was too inconsistent, no matter what I did.
i recently used a mandrel on 50 new cases without lube and that was a big mistake
Have you tried tumbling in corn cob first? I don't mandrel new Alpha, but I now always tumble it for 15 mins seating is much easier & consistent

@RegionRat have you ever seen dry neck lube impact accuracy? Eric Stecker recently spoke about cleanliness during bullet manufacturing & how even oil contaminants can be a detriment to accuracy. I wondered if dry lube could become impacted on the jacket during firing & cause inconsistencies.
 
@RegionRat have you ever seen dry neck lube impact accuracy?
TLDR: Yes

What we call "neck tension" on an open forum is vague, but for a moment lets pretend it means seating force.
(To keep things simple, lets us pretend the seating force is due to (the condition and neck prep of the brass) times (the friction coefficient). We are discussing both at the same time, not just one or the other.)

Now ask yourself if seating force affects accuracy?

This turns into another "it depends" answer doesn't it? Because seating force versus accuracy/precision can be a deep rabbit hole, my answer is going to sound vague, so I apologize in advance.

In the real world of defense/aerospace, we burned big budgets to make things work but that is not the same as saying we always burned enough to explain the mechanics of why. If we had reliable answers with solid statistics, we often settled for not knowing why as long as things were proven to be very reliable.

Many times we could not explain why one weapon system was picky about seating force, while another was not, but both kinds exist.

We had many theories but none of the customers wanted to wait for another science project to explain the deep physics if their project was otherwise ready for use.

For a moment, lets say seating force MAY affect starting pressure and combustion. The caps are for emphasis because there can be a wide window of seating force that is forgiving in some instances, but in other instances it may be picky.

Let's assume we are talking about pre-loaded ammo, and not BR where folks tune on the spot. Let us also assume we are not discussing blasting ammo, where the time of flight is short range and MV stats don't matter.

In some guns/ammo, the neck tension can be a sensitive issue, and yet in others you can swing it pretty wide and see no significant change in group stats even if the POI moves a little. When we can manage the DOPE and the group stats remain tight, we are happy. But...

In other guns/ammo, when we shift the neck tension average a little, we get in and out of tune. Also keep in mind, unless you know the seating force values, meaning the average and the ES/SD of those forces, you are not part of this discussion.

I was often forced to deal with ammo that was required to be neck-sealed and crimped, versus other ammo that was not sealed or crimped. We found ways to make both work well, but in the end we always did everything we could to make the seating force SD/ES stats as small as possible.

Keeping the stats on the neck prep, and seating forces tight was done regardless if we thought there was a correlation to performance. Remember, Uncle Sam spends 99.99% of your tax dollars on loading, and has very little interest in re-loading.

There are some differences between making virgin ammo versus reloading used brass, but the deep ballistics answers were the same.

When we tested that neck tension issue, there was a connection to the MV statistics and that is why you are better off keeping your seating force workmanship as tight as possible.

Could someone come on and show a gun that doesn't care if the seating force can be doubled with horrible stats yet still shoot tight? Yes.

Could someone show a direct correlation between seating force, MV average, MV SD, and MV ES, and target performance, yes.

However, to keep moving forward we need to filter out all the anecdotal inputs where folks really don't know the neck tension/seating force. There is enough chaos in the study without all the noise from folks who have no clue.

My advice is the following, take it or leave it...
When your choice at home is to spend a great deal of resources to test everything and you enjoy doing the shooting, then by all means run with it. Do the testing.

However, if you don't have all the resources and barrels/bullets/etc., to burn testing that much, you would be better off keeping neck tension workmanship under control, tight control.

If I make ammo I care about, and it might have to sit for months, or to travel to some distance place to be used, you can be sure I am controlling the tribology of the friction in the necks as well as the hardness of the brass in the necks.

Yes, I personally use all the tricks when it matters the most to me, and work hard to avoid mass producing crappy ammo. I can sound like a hypocrite because I also mass produce blasting ammo that I just anneal and tumble, but trust me I know the neck tension stats even on that junk because folks I care about might be risking their fingers and eyes shooting my rigs.

Sorry for the long answer. YMMV
 
Last edited:
But, but
TLDR: Yes

What we call "neck tension" on an open forum is vague, but for a moment lets pretend it means seating force.
(To keep things simple, lets us pretend the seating force is due to the condition and neck prep of the brass times the friction coefficient. We are discussing both at the same time, not just one of the other.)

Now ask yourself if seating force affects accuracy?

This turns into another "it depends" answer doesn't it? Because seating force versus accuracy/precision can be a deep rabbit hole, my answer is going to sound vague, so I apologize in advance.

In the real world of defense/aerospace, we burned big budgets to make things work but that is not the same as saying we always burned enough to explain the mechanics of why. If we had reliable answers with solid statistics, we often settled for not knowing why as long as things were proven to be very reliable.

Many times we could not explain why one weapon system was picky about seating force, while another was not, but both kinds exist.

We had many theories but none of the customers wanted to wait for another science project to explain the deep physics if their project was otherwise ready for use.

For a moment, lets say seating force MAY affect starting pressure and combustion. The caps are for emphasis because there can be a wide window of seating force that is forgiving in some instances, but in other instances it may be picky.

Let's assume we are talking about pre-loaded ammo, and not BR where folks tune on the spot. Let us also assume we are not discussing blasting ammo, where the time of flight is short range and MV stats don't matter.

In some guns/ammo, the neck tension can be a sensitive issue, and yet in others you can swing it pretty wide and see no significant change in group stats even if the POI moves a little. When we can manage the DOPE and the group stats remain tight, we are happy. But...

In other guns/ammo, when we shift the neck tension average a little, we get in and out of tune. Also keep in mind, unless you know the seating force values, meaning the average and the ES/SD of those forces, you are not part of this discussion.

I was often forced to deal with ammo that was required to be neck-sealed and crimped, versus other ammo that was not sealed or crimped. We found ways to make both work well, but in the end we always did everything we could to make the seating force SD/ES stats as small as possible.

Keeping the stats on the neck prep, and seating forces tight was done regardless if we thought there was a correlation to performance. Remember, Uncle Sam spends 99.99% of your tax dollars on loading, and has very little interest in re-loading.

There are some differences between making virgin ammo versus reloading used brass, but the deep ballistics answers were the same.

When we tested that neck tension issue, there was a connection to the MV statistics and that is why you are better off keeping your seating force workmanship as tight as possible.

Could someone come on and show a gun that doesn't care if the seating force can be doubled with horrible stats yet still shoot tight? Yes.

Could someone show a direct correlation between seating force, MV average, MV SD, and MV ES, and target performance, yes.

However, to keep moving forward we need to filter out all the anecdotal inputs where folks really don't know the neck tension/seating force. There is enough chaos in the study without all the noise from folks who have no clue.

My advice is the following, take it or leave it...
When your choice at home is to spend a great deal of resources to test everything and you enjoy doing the shooting, then by all means run with it. Do the testing.

However, if you don't have all the resources and barrels/bullets/etc., to burn testing that much, you would be better off keeping neck tension workmanship under control, tight control.

If I make ammo I care about, and it might have to sit for months, or to travel to some distance place to be used, you can be sure I am controlling the tribology of the friction in the necks as well as the hardness of the brass in the necks.

Yes, I personally use all the tricks when it matters to me the most to me, and work hard to avoid mass producing crappy ammo. I can sound like a hypocrite because I also mass produce blasting ammo that I just anneal and tumble, but trust me I know the neck tension stats even on that junk because folks I care about might be risking their fingers and eyes shooting my rigs.

Sorry for the long answer. YMMV
But, but, but...

How in the world could just pounds or 10s of pounds of difference in seating force make any difference at all with a chamber pressure that reaches 65,000 psi? :rolleyes:

/sarcasm

In all seriousness, I do appreciate your answer quite a bit.
 
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But, but

But, but, but...

How in the world could just pounds or 10s of pounds of difference in seating force make any difference at all with a chamber pressure that reaches 65,000 psi? :rolleyes:

/sarcasm

In all seriousness, I do appreciate your answer quite a bit.

Another week goes by and still no proof seating force has any correlation to sd.

IMG_9079.jpeg