Rifle Scopes LPVO or Red dot/magnifier for SBR

[PPK007]

Currently I have a COMP m5s on my HK MR556 A4 11” SBR. The red dot isn’t crisp to my right eye anymore due to an astigmatism I have. It gets a little cleaner with my prescription sunglasses. I was debating putting a magnifier on it OR switching to an eotech with magnifier OR putting an LPVO like the NX8 on but don’t want to be overkill. I can say that the comp m5s with magnifier is the most expensive option with the eotech being cheapest. I can get the LPVO on expert voice for a percentage off. Is this overkill for a 11” gun?

 

[jaguar0405]

If you are dealing with astigmatism, like me, don't get a red dot or a holographic sight. Instead, I would recommend the Primary Arms 1x Microprism, which has an insane eye relief of 6 inches, allowing the use of a magnifier and filling the same role as the red dot while having the crisp reticle of a prismatic sight.

 

[PPK007]

I thought about ACOG as well. The LPVO works great for me but I just wasn’t sure if that was too much for an SBR.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

If you already have the dot a magnifier maybe isn't a terrible idea. If you get something like the aimpoint 3x-c magnifier you can adjust the focus to account for your astigmatism. I run one behind a T2.

A good lpvo though is hard to beat for general use. The PA prisms are kinda cool, but I didn't keep mine.

 

[mmlook]

NX8 1-8 are pretty badass for the size and weight

 

[Entreri]

What is your primary use for the rifle?

 

[PPK007]

What is your primary use for the rifle?

With all my ARs I mostly shoot this out to 100-200 yards. Occasional indoor range use is at a max of 30 yards. This and my SR15 are my two favorite ARs to shoot, but this is kind of taking the lead so it’ll be my all around go to gun. I plan to suppress this eventually.

I thought about taking the ATACR off my SR15 to use for this honestly because I at first didn’t want more than one rifle with an LPVO but I’m open to getting an NX8 to run this with.

 

[dpb1776]

Is it home defense or for critters outdoors or general range use? I just built an 11.5 SBR few months ago I a running a Leupold MK4 1-4.5. Really like it so far ran the VXR patrol for years no issues, so this was a nice improvement. was going to go Eotech and Magnifier but chose this especially with a military discount. Scope is super lightweight and easy to get behind

 

[PPK007]

Is it home defense or for critters outdoors or general range use? I just built an 11.5 SBR few months ago I a running a Leupold MK4 1-4.5. Really like it so far ran the VXR patrol for years no issues, so this was a nice improvement. was going to go Eotech and Magnifier but chose this especially with a military discount. Scope is super lightweight and easy to get behind

This will be for general range use and home defense. I plan to get a B&T suppressor for it soon as well.

 

[RayDBonz]

I have an older NXS 1-4x24 on mine. Works fine.

 

[PPK007]

I have an older NXS 1-4x24 on mine. Works fine.

SBR?

At this time I’m leaning towards getting an NX8 for my HK. I’d like to try a magnifier with an Aimpoint to see if it at all crisps the dot but I’ll likely sell my comp m5.

 

[PPK007]

Tried my ATACR on the HK. Feels really well balanced actually , might be overkill but I like it. As much as I’d love to run a dot on this it’s just not working in my eye. For $250-$300 more I think the NX8 with mount is worth it over eotech with magnifier

 

[jaguar0405]

Tried my ATACR on the HK. Feels really well balanced actually , might be overkill but I like it. As much as I’d love to run a dot on this it’s just not working in my eye. For $250-$300 more I think the NX8 with mount is worth it over eotech with magnifier
View attachment 8734662

Looks good! And overkill is still a kill!

 

[dms416]

My hat is off to the folks who can run an RDO/Holo with a magnifier.
In my time trying to make it work, EVERY fucking time it's been fucking trash between the image with an Aimpoint or the impact shift or just the fucking garbage optical experience with even the "most forgiving" magnifiers...so bad that I almost just want to run a fucking EOTech in front of an LPVO instead. Even the ubber-expensive Wilcox/1minout couldn't free me of the fuckery.

I think a fast, forgiving solution is necessary for serious use but for most people they're going to have a lot more fun USING the gun with an LPVO (because let's face it, if it gets used it'll be flat range).

And despite all the armchair commando BS of "you never gonna legally use it real world beyond (insert < 100y distance)" I have never EVER said the following in my career as an armed professional:

"Gee...I didn't need to see this well"

Also 11.5" rifles with no can are lame...put a can on it, and LPVO it up

 

[TylerN]

Tried my ATACR on the HK. Feels really well balanced actually , might be overkill but I like it. As much as I’d love to run a dot on this it’s just not working in my eye. For $250-$300 more I think the NX8 with mount is worth it over eotech with magnifier
View attachment 8734662

the ATACR is better than I thought it would be on an SBR. Balances well, the 1X eye box it's fairly forgiving, and the illumination is bright enough for all daylight conditions.

 

[thedude824]

I’ve developed an astigmatism too and I’m not enjoying my MRO. I haven’t noticed the problem translating to my illuminated scope reticles. I’ve read that holographic sights are awesome for astigmatism, but I haven’t tried one since developing mine.
As far as the NX8 being overkill… FOR ME.. shooting tight groups at 100 yards requires at least 8x magnification for me. I’ve got a Trijicon Credo 1-6 on my 14.5” AR and it’s not enough mag for shooting small groups. The caveat.. I’ve got 3 NX8s and 2 ATACRs. The ATACRs ALWAYS have better eye relief. For your intended purpose I would absolutely grab an NX8. ESPECIALLY for a smaller package built for maneuverability. I bought all my NF scopes through ExpertVoice as well. I’d argue that the NX8 is literally built for your situation.
I tend to be one of those buy once cry once guys. I’m likely going to replace my Credo 1-6 with an NX8 on my 14.5”, replace the Credo 1-8 on my SBR SCAR17 with an ATACR, and the Vortex on my Barrett M82 with a NF NX8 4-32x. I’m a NightForce convert/fan boy. Just so you’re aware.

 

[PPK007]

My hat is off to the folks who can run an RDO/Holo with a magnifier.
In my time trying to make it work, EVERY fucking time it's been fucking trash between the image with an Aimpoint or the impact shift or just the fucking garbage optical experience with even the "most forgiving" magnifiers...so bad that I almost just want to run a fucking EOTech in front of an LPVO instead. Even the ubber-expensive Wilcox/1minout couldn't free me of the fuckery.

I think a fast, forgiving solution is necessary for serious use but for most people they're going to have a lot more fun USING the gun with an LPVO (because let's face it, if it gets used it'll be flat range).

And despite all the armchair commando BS of "you never gonna legally use it real world beyond (insert < 100y distance)" I have never EVER said the following in my career as an armed professional:

"Gee...I didn't need to see this well"

Also 11.5" rifles with no can are lame...put a can on it, and LPVO it up

It’s lame without the suppressor, I know. Was trying to hold off till tax stamps became free to get a B and T for this.


Don’t get me wrong I can still use red dots, but for the extra magnification plus the fact that I can literally have an NX8 for less than the total cost of Aimpoint dot/magnifier it seems to make a lot of sense. Granted I need more time behind an LPVO. Haven’t made my mind up just yet. I’m on a waiting list for an NX8 with the newer reticle anyway.

 

[vanrichten]

For me it depends on the intended use. My NVG dedicated guns I tend to put a red dot or Eotech on. Those are just far easier to get behind with NODs for passive aiming. If I don’t have an IR laser on it, it’ll have an LPVO.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Ran an older NXS 1-4 on my 10.5 blackout sbr for a long time. It did well for all intended purposes. Have since removed it and not sure what I will replace it with, but more than likely just a traditional red dot?

 

[PPK007]

I don’t have any NV and don’t plan to ever get it. I also like the ability to use an LPVO without turning it on. I thought about an ACOG with red dot too but that’s still more money than just going with the NX8. In rankings of cost in least expensive to most expensive here is what I have:

EOTECH/Magnifier
NX8
ACOG/Dot
Aimpoint/magnifier

 

[PPK007]

Ran an older NXS 1-4 on my 10.5 blackout sbr for a long time. It did well for all intended purposes. Have since removed it and not sure what I will replace it with, but more than likely just a traditional red dot? View attachment 8735145

I have a 10.5” 300BLK as well. It uses a T2. I shoot that the least of my ARs now. It’s more my closet gun and hosts a suppressor

 

[PPK007]

One thing I noticed is that the 1.5 mount is probably a little too low for my taste. I want to try the 1.93 Ultramount but is that too high?

 

[dms416]

One thing I noticed is that the 1.5 mount is probably a little too low for my taste. I want to try the 1.93 Ultramount but is that too high?

Unless you need to clear an IR unit or compensate for a medical issue that requires it....FOR AN LPVO...I wouldn't go higher than 1.70 unless I had a specific need. (Sorry, I don't think allowing for your gas mask and passive through your LPVO are really a factor). Stock style will also change the feel; a portion of people don't need to go higher, they need a different stock geometry.

Heads up all you want, but when you fuck your cheekweld and consistency with some of these LPVO's you're completely cutting your own legs out from under you IMHO. Also, as you climb higher your holds/offsets will change.

 

[PPK007]

Understood. I don’t use NV or anything really.

I guess I’m mostly seeing what the limits are as far as how far I can push an 11” SBR out so that’s why the LPVO might work best. Also I feel like if it’s mounted higher it works easier at 1x. I guess 1.7 really is the sweet spot.

 

[TonyAngel]

Currently I have a COMP m5s on my HK MR556 A4 11” SBR. The red dot isn’t crisp to my right eye anymore due to an astigmatism I have. It gets a little cleaner with my prescription sunglasses. I was debating putting a magnifier on it OR switching to an eotech with magnifier OR putting an LPVO like the NX8 on but don’t want to be overkill. I can say that the comp m5s with magnifier is the most expensive option with the eotech being cheapest. I can get the LPVO on expert voice for a percentage off. Is this overkill for a 11” gun?

I'm not a fan of red dots on rifles unless the rifle serves a specific purpose. I'm not a fan of magnifiers either. The PA prism sights are pretty cool, but I wonder if all if the guys that post about putting a magnifier behind one have actually done it.

Are you going to be shooting this setup to its maximum effect range or as far as you can without regard for effectiveness?

For me, red dot only setups are just about useless and red dot/magnifier setups are just a step or two above useless. Magnifiers are not meant to be run as a primary magnified optic.

Most I know running a red dot/magnifier setups would have been much better served by going with a 1-4x LPVO.

I run 2 11.5 rigs. One has a TA11 ACOG with Holosun EPS on it. Its the most simple to use, but takes a lot of practice to master. I grab this setup the most. With the optic, suppressor and light, its well under 10 lbs.
My other is the same setup with an NX8. With the NX8, I can far exceed the max effective range of the setup, but it is overkill and isn't nearly as robust as the ACOG.
What the ACOG lacks in magnification, it makes up for with the size and sharpness of the view.

 

[PPK007]

I’ll mostly be shooting this up to 200 yards since that’s what the furthest distances are at my local ranges. If I want to push it out to 500 plus I have to drive a few hours upstate for that which I want to give a go sometime. I’d like to push this rifle to its limits eventually but yes, 100-200 is where I’ll mostly be. I wouldn’t mind the ACOG but I know with a red dot it’ll exceed the cost of an NX8 which is why I thought NX8 might be best. If I did ACOG I’d want 4x with maybe an RMR up top.

 

[dms416]

I’ll mostly be shooting this up to 200 yards since that’s what the furthest distances are at my local ranges. If I want to push it out to 500 plus I have to drive a few hours upstate for that which I want to give a go sometime. I’d like to push this rifle to its limits eventually but yes, 100-200 is where I’ll mostly be. I wouldn’t mind the ACOG but I know with a red dot it’ll exceed the cost of an NX8 which is why I thought NX8 might be best. If I did ACOG I’d want 4x with maybe an RMR up top.

Its been said on most LPVO threads but I'll say it again. Don't look at magnification = distance.

Go on Amazon and get a roll of 2 or 3" Shoot&See stickers and shoot them from 200y from a variety of props/positions. Or even 1, 1.5 or 2 moa targets at 100y even (which I've done with some guys doing PRS train up and even with a 1 MOA Gasser and a Schmidt & Bender 1-8x, it's sporty as fuck).

 

[roostercogburn98]

If I did ACOG I’d want 4x with maybe an RMR up top.

Dig around and could probably find an Elcan Specter. If your going old school tech like an acog, then at least get something that looks cooler than an acog

 

[TonyAngel]

I’ll mostly be shooting this up to 200 yards since that’s what the furthest distances are at my local ranges. If I want to push it out to 500 plus I have to drive a few hours upstate for that which I want to give a go sometime. I’d like to push this rifle to its limits eventually but yes, 100-200 is where I’ll mostly be. I wouldn’t mind the ACOG but I know with a red dot it’ll exceed the cost of an NX8 which is why I thought NX8 might be best. If I did ACOG I’d want 4x with maybe an RMR up top.

When making this choice, you really need to be honest with yourself about how you're going to use the rifle.

When I'm confined to shooting at shorter distances, I make up for it by shooting at very small targets. I prefer optics with finer aiming points.

You have to decide what's important to you. Everything is a compromise. The Elcan is a sweet optic, as it should be; but it is built for "combat." The reticle looked to me like it's designed for fast target acquisition on larger targets. It performs well in its intended role, but not a general purpose optic for me. It is tough, but it also weighs as much as my NX8 in the mount.

As for the NX8 vs ACOG, the NX8 is, for its size, robustly built and despite its shortcomings, it's a very capable optic. The ACOG is VERY robust. Its the one optic I have that I really don't worry about ... at all. In terms of ease of use, size and weight, nothing beats an ACOG stack. The ACOG with cross hair reticle allows me to just about anything I'd want to do within about 400 yards.

Have you ever used an ACOG? The 4x is nice, but you really need to pay attention when using it, especially from less conventional positions. Everyone I know, myself included, has busted their nose, brow ridge or some other part of their face due to the short eye relief. The TA11 just works better for me. Although the TA11 has a smaller field of view, is larger and a bit longer; the benefits are an extra inch of eye relief, larger exit pupil and a bit more forgiving eye box.

 

[S197]

Currently I have a COMP m5s on my HK MR556 A4 11” SBR. The red dot isn’t crisp to my right eye anymore due to an astigmatism I have. It gets a little cleaner with my prescription sunglasses. I was debating putting a magnifier on it OR switching to an eotech with magnifier OR putting an LPVO like the NX8 on but don’t want to be overkill. I can say that the comp m5s with magnifier is the most expensive option with the eotech being cheapest. I can get the LPVO on expert voice for a percentage off. Is this overkill for a 11” gun?

If you go NF, go direct with them. Expert Voice was not that great on pricing

 

[PPK007]

When making this choice, you really need to be honest with yourself about how you're going to use the rifle.

When I'm confined to shooting at shorter distances, I make up for it by shooting at very small targets. I prefer optics with finer aiming points.

You have to decide what's important to you. Everything is a compromise. The Elcan is a sweet optic, as it should be; but it is built for "combat." The reticle looked to me like it's designed for fast target acquisition on larger targets. It performs well in its intended role, but not a general purpose optic for me. It is tough, but it also weighs as much as my NX8 in the mount.

As for the NX8 vs ACOG, the NX8 is, for its size, robustly built and despite its shortcomings, it's a very capable optic. The ACOG is VERY robust. Its the one optic I have that I really don't worry about ... at all. In terms of ease of use, size and weight, nothing beats an ACOG stack. The ACOG with cross hair reticle allows me to just about anything I'd want to do within about 400 yards.

Have you ever used an ACOG? The 4x is nice, but you really need to pay attention when using it, especially from less conventional positions. Everyone I know, myself included, has busted their nose, brow ridge or some other part of their face due to the short eye relief. The TA11 just works better for me. Although the TA11 has a smaller field of view, is larger and a bit longer; the benefits are an extra inch of eye relief, larger exit pupil and a bit more forgiving eye box.

I have never shot with an Acog I’ve only just handled one. Would love to be able to try before buy.

If you go NF, go direct with them. Expert Voice was not that great on pricing

And I’ve ordered my ATACR thru NF. I don’t believe they do direct sales anymore. It might only be thru EV.

 

[wvfarrier]

My wife runs a Primary Arms GLX 1X Prism on her rifle and really likes it. She has an astigmatism and did not like the staburst effect

 

[TonyAngel]

I have never shot with an Acog I’ve only just handled one. Would love to be able to try before buy.



And I’ve ordered my ATACR thru NF. I don’t believe they do direct sales anymore. It might only be thru EV.

If you've never shot with an ACOG 4x, you should definitely try before you buy. If you have to order it, at least get it from a place that will take it back. Many, many people get the 4x and instantly regret it due to the eye relief. If its something you can work with, the 4x is a great optic; but for me, the tradeoff of eyerelief for field of view wasn't worth it.

 

[jaguar0405]

I wanted to add a couple of things, as I updated the optics on my own rifle, as well as tried out a couple of friends' rifle systems over this past weekend (a nice and sunny California day) and got a lot of useful experience.

• I put my Primary Arms 1x SLx Prism sight on a piggyback mount, where most people put an RMR-style microdot. While a little bit tall, it works PERFECTLY. Finding the right mount was a pain, because I needed a pic rail that was as low as possible on the rear ring while providing enough slots to securely mount, but they exist. The eye relief is plenty, the reticle stays nice and sharp, I am super happy.
• Underneath the 1x SLx, my rifle has the Vortex Venom 1-6x LPVO. It might not be super high-end, but I was very impressed with it and the two paired very well, although I mainly left the Venom at full power and used the SLx for quick target acquisition. The Venom, at max brightness, could be seen when looking at the black parts of targets or shadows; the SLx was amazingly bright. Max brightness was actually too bright for me, and I was using it at level 8 out of 11 (again, nearly cloudless California day).
• I tried one person's Aimpoint Green dot + 3x magnifier. It was a disaster for my eyes. I had heard that green dots were worse for astigmatism, and boy is that true! At 50 yards, the dot and its starburst completely obscured a 3" target, both magnified and unmagnified.
• Another friend had a Primary Arms SLx 3-18x on an Aero build using an FN barrel. Incredibly accurate and fun to shoot, but very much a fixed position rifle. Oddly, he did not have a bipod, so we were shooting off wooden blocks.

I hope others are able to benefit from my observations

 

[dpb1776]

This will be for general range use and home defense. I plan to get a B&T suppressor for it soon as well.

I would look at a 1-4 or 4.5. I am running a match barrel on mine and with handloaded 77s, 6-inch plates are pretty easy at 300 yards. I also have a MK6 1-6 which is an amazing scope but felt it was overkill for the 11.5. It's going on a 14.5 the 16 is getting a 2-10 with an offset then I am done with scope upgrades. I feel the MK4 has a little more generous eye box at 1x than the MK6, but it is splitting hairs honestly. But the MK4 and 11.5 seem to be a good combo so far, I have run a couple indoor matches and 1 outdoor 2 gun with a couple targets at 400 yards no problems up close or at distance. Red dots and magnifiers did suffer past 200 yards on smaller targets; couple guys were running them they struggled somewhat something to keep in mind depending on where you shoot. I started out competing with an Aimpoint pro, so I have run a red dot. My only experience with LPVO's is the 3 I own, so take my opinion with a grain of salt

 

[Unobtanium]

 

[smcfarland]

Have similar astigmatism. And as I’ve gotten older I’m turning into a magnification whore to be able to see better. An option I don’t see mentioned is to piggyback a red dot on top of LPVO for best of both worlds. Have the reptilia mount with Athlon 2-12 and RMR at 12 o’clock on my 11.5 SBR. It’s my “do all” rifle if I could only have one. Actually balances very nicely with surefire mini out front. Setup works perfectly for my uses shooting critters and paper/steel from 10-600m.