schmidt and bender ultra short vs minox zp5 3-15

[jarredsc]

good day

I'm in the market for a new long range/ hunting scope and considering between a schmidt and bender ultra short 3-20/ 5-20 or a minor zp5 3-15x50 anyone who has owned both how do they compare side by side. my main concerns are glass quality and eye box happy with both schmidt and minor reticles.

 

[Scotch_egg]

I have had 3-20X50 and 5-20X50 ultra shorts and currently have a standard 3-20X50 and 4-16X50 PM11’s. It’s very subjective. But I much prefer the standard Pm11’s.

However I do also have three 3-15X50 Minox’s. I can genuinely state for me they are the best trade off for size, eye box and clarity. I do miss the top end mag on occasion. The turrets are simple precise. The twilight image is excellent and as I use them for deer stalking in the uk last light is key.

 

[usmc45]

Where are you finding a ZP5 3-15x50? I would love one but thought they were discontinued.

 

[jarredsc]

Where are you finding a ZP5 3-15x50? I would love one but thought they were discontinued

there is about 4 new in box mr5 models available after receiving one will let you know where I bought it from.

 

[Kspence49]

I would definitely look into the atacr 4-16 as well in that range. It’s an incredible optic. But if you’re comfortable dropping the cash on the S&B I’d go ZCO 4-20 hands down.

 

[jarredsc]

Which would you consider a better optic for hunting, the minox zp5 3-15 mr5 or the zco 4-20 mpct1x. currently running a carbon Springfield 2020 waypoint with a nx8 2.5-10 so would like to keep it light enough for hunting.

 

[Secant]

Which would you consider a better optic for hunting, the minox zp5 3-15 mr5 or the zco 4-20 mpct1x. currently running a carbon Springfield 2020 waypoint with a nx8 2.5-10 so would like to keep it light enough for hunting.

If you are open to options, TT315M with gen2 Mildot is the one. Mechanically sound, lighter than any option that’s been listed so far (listed weight includes caps), optically as good or better, and reticle is useable through the mag range.

My 4-16x42 ATACR is definitely not on par. My ZCO420 hangs in for sure, but is also 1/2 pound heavier. For me, the Tangent is the superior hunting optic compared to ATACR, ZCO, Mk5, AMG, Bushy elites, SWFA, NX8, etc etc.

 

[Hennig]

I’ve got a 420 ZCO, 5-20US, but I think you should add the 4.5-28 March HM to your list.

Light, compact, killer glass and great turrets. Just another option - no bad choices here.

 

[Kspence49]

Which would you consider a better optic for hunting, the minox zp5 3-15 mr5 or the zco 4-20 mpct1x. currently running a carbon Springfield 2020 waypoint with a nx8 2.5-10 so would like to keep it light enough for hunting.

I don’t have experience with the zp5 3-15 or the zco 4-20 but I do have a zp5 5-25 and a zco 5-27. The zp5 glass does edge out the zco on clarity, resolution, and color, but everything else about the zco beats the zp5. The zp5 has the worst turrets I’ve ever used and it does have one foggy spot near the edge of the glass which is pretty common in these scopes. They also had tracking issues in their early days. I would definitely not pay MSRP for one they are not worth anywhere close to 3500 even in their current state. They are improving, but buying a discontinued model is going to be hit or miss on whether you get a good one or one you’ll be shipping back to Germany to get fixed.

I would not count out the atacr 4-16. It might be my all time all around favorite optic, and is definitely the nicest scope NF makes. More expensive doesn’t always mean more better. Nightforce seems to have defied physics with that optic. Its glass clarity isn't as good S&B or Minox, but it’s not far off the ZCO and is good enough for me to spot 5.56 impacts at 650+ yards. It has great low light performance, excellent mirage performance, extremely forgiving eye box, and it has by far the least top end mag optical degradation of any other scope I’ve used. It also is lighter than any of the others.

I’ve been behind TTs and honestly have never been able to see what you’re paying for over a ZCO. That being said I haven’t spent a significant amount of time behind a TT so someone who owns both would be able to speak to them more.

My biggest gripe with S&B is their mirage performance is atrocious. I’ve been behind 3 and own 1 and they’re garbage when it’s hot out. ZCO and nightforce blow them out of the water on hot days. S&B is almost unusable out west when it gets over 80 degrees and/or you’re running an uncovered suppressor.

 

[carbonbased]

and/or you’re running an uncovered suppressor.

Why are you doing that? Serious question.

I could see when hunting as one isn’t taking more than three shots (hopefully lol).

 

[Kspence49]

Why are you doing that? Serious question.

I could see when hunting as one isn’t taking more than three shots (hopefully lol).

Service rifle clones it’s not for everyone lol.

Even so, when it’s warm out even the barrel can give off enough mirage to mess up an S&B

 

[carbonbased]

Service rifle clones it’s not for everyone lol.

Even so, when it’s warm out even the barrel can give off enough mirage to mess up an S&B

Oh ha! Ok I get it.

My best scopes are a S&B 5-25 and Razor G2, and they seem roughly equivalent in mirage performance for barrel/suppressor mirage.

Downrange I’d wager the S&B is a bit better with that type of mirage, but I haven’t run some careful study. The Razor is much better with flare, however.

Someday I might blow $4000+ for an optic, but haven’t yet.

 

[TheOE800]

My best scopes are a S&B 5-25 and Razor G2, and they seem roughly equivalent in mirage performance for barrel/suppressor mirage.

Considering when each came to market, I think that’s a plus for the S&B. That said, when I tested FOVgate the RG3 had noticeably worse mirage performance (and noticeably more FOV ) than the S&B 6-36.

 

[carbonbased]

Considering when each came to market, I think that’s a plus for the S&B. That said, when I tested FOVgate the RG3 had noticeably worse mirage performance (and noticeably more FOV ) than the S&B 6-36.

Oh totally understand. Wasn’t a slam on the S&B 5-25. I prefer it, usually. I can work around the flare issue, usually. The FOV stinks though.

Did you happen to test the flare performance between the Rg3 & S&B 6-36?

 

[Kspence49]

Oh ha! Ok I get it.

My best scopes are a S&B 5-25 and Razor G2, and they seem roughly equivalent in mirage performance for barrel/suppressor mirage.

Downrange I’d wager the S&B is a bit better with that type of mirage, but I haven’t run some careful study. The Razor is much better with flare, however.

Someday I might blow $4000+ for an optic, but haven’t yet.

3k for a used ZCO. Let the original owner take the depreciation

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

I don’t have experience with the zp5 3-15 or the zco 4-20 but I do have a zp5 5-25 and a zco 5-27. The zp5 glass does edge out the zco on clarity, resolution, and color, but everything else about the zco beats the zp5. The zp5 has the worst turrets I’ve ever used and it does have one foggy spot near the edge of the glass which is pretty common in these scopes. They also had tracking issues in their early days. I would definitely not pay MSRP for one they are not worth anywhere close to 3500 even in their current state. They are improving, but buying a discontinued model is going to be hit or miss on whether you get a good one or one you’ll be shipping back to Germany to get fixed.

I would not count out the atacr 4-16. It might be my all time all around favorite optic, and is definitely the nicest scope NF makes. More expensive doesn’t always mean more better. Nightforce seems to have defied physics with that optic. Its glass clarity isn't as good S&B or Minox, but it’s not far off the ZCO and is good enough for me to spot 5.56 impacts at 650+ yards. It has great low light performance, excellent mirage performance, extremely forgiving eye box, and it has by far the least top end mag optical degradation of any other scope I’ve used. It also is lighter than any of the others.

I’ve been behind TTs and honestly have never been able to see what you’re paying for over a ZCO. That being said I haven’t spent a significant amount of time behind a TT so someone who owns both would be able to speak to them more.

My biggest gripe with S&B is their mirage performance is atrocious. I’ve been behind 3 and own 1 and they’re garbage when it’s hot out. ZCO and nightforce blow them out of the water on hot days. S&B is almost unusable out west when it gets over 80 degrees and/or you’re running an uncovered suppressor.

If your ZP5 has bad turrets and a smudge on the glass, why don’t you send it in for repair?

 

[Kspence49]

If your ZP5 has bad turrets and a smudge on the glass, why don’t you send it in for repair?

Because I don’t want to lose it to Germany for several months, and from what I can tell in my research the turrets are as good as it gets for Minox at the moment. The foggy spot isn’t obtrusive but it is there if you’re looking specifically for 360 degree edge to edge clarity. Which is one place S&B excels

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

That’s interesting. I have a couple of ZP5’s and they both have very good turrets, I would call them exceptional. Same as the image quality. I did have to send one back though, so I hear you about not wanting to lose it for three months.

 

[Kspence49]

That’s interesting. I have a couple of ZP5’s and they both have very good turrets, I would call them exceptional. Same as the image quality. I did have to send one back though, so I hear you about not wanting to lose it for three months.

The image quality is exceptional, it outdoes ZCO for fine detail. And like I said foggy spot is small and unobtrusive, but it is there. The turrets are sloppy tho. It’s terrible compared to the ZCO and nightforce. Honestly the bushnell XRS I had had better turrets. They’re far from unusable but it’s still unacceptable on a $3500 scope. They’re on par with a 4-16 PMII that I have that’s seen 20 years of hard use.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

The image quality is exceptional, it outdoes ZCO for fine detail. And like I said foggy spot is small and unobtrusive, but it is there. The turrets are sloppy tho. It’s terrible compared to the ZCO and nightforce. Honestly the bushnell XRS I had had better turrets. They’re far from unusable but it’s still unacceptable on a $3500 scope. They’re on par with a 4-16 PMII that I have that’s seen 20 years of hard use.

That stinks. Yeah it’s hit or miss on their consistency I guess. I got lucky with my turrets. But unlucky with other optics.

I have been talking myself out of a 4-20 for close to a year now but I am not gonna be able to hold out much longer.

 

[jarredsc]

the best piece of glass I've ever looked through was a pm2 5-25 I was blonde away by how crisp it was and the amount of detail I could see even out to 2km. I've tried razors night forces and kales but the image to my eyes weren't close. I am a big fan of Schmidt and bender glass but lot of guys are saying the ultra shorts aren't as good as other pm2s and have never tried a Minox ZP5 so think I should give them a try. there's 4 brand new in box scopes left at 2000 euro so if I don't take one now I might not get the opportunity again.

 

[Vace9089]

It would behoove you to read the warranties issued for each scope you are considering as to coverage, length and proof of purchase required or not BEFORE you order. You might be in for a surprise and might impact on your decision.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Yea , Stay away from Minox. They make EXCELLENT optics and glass that rivals the very best out there. There is a reason they sell for pennies on secondary. Customer service/warranty/repair is almost non existent. If you do have to send it in, don't be surprised to loose your optic for 6-8 months. Unless someone is giving it to you damn near free, its a foolish investment.

Just don't. There are too many good optics out there.

The mentioned 420 ZCO is a the greatest all around optic out there IMO. The TT 3-15, NF 4-16x42 and the S&B 5-20 are all good options as well, and are supported by great companies.

 

[Glassaholic]

That’s interesting. I have a couple of ZP5’s and they both have very good turrets, I would call them exceptional. Same as the image quality. I did have to send one back though, so I hear you about not wanting to lose it for three months.

I’ve had several ZP5’s over the years, one had mediocre turrets others were pretty fantastic except for the resistance between 1st and 2nd rev which I felt was a little too tight. Sent my first scope back to Germany and said “fix my turrets please” and it came back with outstanding feel. The biggest issue with Minox is lack of support in US.

 

[TheOE800]

Did you happen to test the flare performance between the Rg3 & S&B 6-36?

Nah