Rifle Scopes Vortex Factory Defect...?

[USMC8551]

Purchased a Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36 from EuroOptic that I mounted on my MRAD. Ran my new 6.5 Creed barrel over two trips to the range. My groups are wild. I'm not an expert marksman by any means, but I'm also not new to shooting (or this bad at 200 yards). Likewise, I've mounted a lot of scopes over the years; I'm fairly certain I didn't fuck anything up, like crush my tube.

These groups were shot today between 11 AM and Noon at 200 yards. Sunny, zero cloud cover. About 77 degrees, 55% humidity. Little to no wind. Factory ammo: Hornady Match. BTHP. 140gr. Benchrest with bipod and squeeze bag.

I had my dad shoot two 3-shot groups just to see if really was me. It wasn't.

I didn't do any barrel break-in for this barrel. It's chome-lined, and I'm not a big believer in break-in in general, anyway. I did clean it before shooting it (Bortech carbon remover, copper remover, EWL, dry patch).

Anyone ever have a factory defect scope like this, particularly a slightly higher-end optic? I contacted Vortex anyway, but I'm curious. I suppose it could be the barrel, but that seems somewhat unlikely.

S/F

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

From what you have described, its far more likely that this is due to your barrel and ammo combination not working than the scope. Not saying it can't be the scope (I had an XTR ii completely fall apart), but you said this is a brand new barrel which raises the eyebrow.

Do you have a second scope to swap on and check with?

 

[USMC8551]

I thought about the scope swap as I was driving my dad home….

It could be the load; though, it was pretty standard 140gr shelf ammo out of a 24” 1:8 twist. Good thought, though. Maybe it just doesn’t like that ammo.

I’ll try different ammo this week. If it doesn’t like that, I’ll swap a scope off another rifle and see how that goes.

Those are just wild 5-round groups to me. Some thing seems off. Disappointing, but a good work through, I suppose.

S/F

 

[Jrb572]

I’m pretty sure Vortex will take care of you no matter what.

 

[ChrisAU]

New rifle, factory ammo, 200 yard groups.

Damn scope!

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

@USMC 8531 Sometimes you encounter a ammo combo that doesn't work. My LMT 308 wouldn't shoot any M80 type ammo into a 4" group at 100y, but would shoot 175 fgmm 3/4 any day of the week.

Check all your torques, barrel included, and I would shoot at 100y to just remove another factor.

 

[Rob01]

Yeah going right to the scope in this situation is a big jump. You do t know what the rifle shoots like with that ammo and being new what the rifle shoots like at all.

That said put another on there and see what it does. Would have been my first move if I was worried about the scope being the issue. Use the same lot of ammo and rifle and put another scope on and try it out.

 

[Sogan]

You need to start working through the variables; different scope, ammo, torque on screws, scope on a different known shooter etc.

 

[BobinNC]

You need to start working through the variables; different scope, ammo, torque on screws, scope on a different known shooter etc.

This ^^^

It's called "trouble shooting 101". It's a process.....

 

[Hickswr]

I’ll wager the scope isn’t the issue~

 

[carbonbased]

If it ultimately is the scope, at least you picked the right manufacturer’s warranty.

Did you zero the thing at 100 before going to 200?

 

[badgerfan]

Most of your issue appears to be vertical stringing which made me give a closer look to your photos. Your scope is sliding forward in your rings, if you look closely at the photos you can see the mark forward of each of the rings. On those heavy Razors you should be going a little higher than the normal 18 inch pounds, I usually go to about 22 inch pounds on mine.

 

[DeaconBlue]

Definitely gotta try more than one load and step back to 100 yds. Even loads that are accurate out of other barrels may hate a particular barrel. My Mk262 load for whatever reason groups terribly out of my 11.5” 1/7 @ 100 yds with a magnified optic. However I’ve seen the same barrel shoot some impressive groups with some premium factory loads..even 55gr loads which surprised me.

 

[CSTactical]

You need to start working through the variables; different scope, ammo, torque on screws, scope on a different known shooter etc.

Agreed!

Most of your issue appears to be vertical stringing which made me give a closer look to your photos. Your scope is sliding forward in your rings, if you look closely at the photos you can see the mark forward of each of the rings. On those heavy Razors you should be going a little higher than the normal 18 inch pounds, I usually go to about 22 inch pounds on mine.

View attachment 8740649

Great eyes!

Richard

 

[USMC8551]

If it ultimately is the scope, at least you picked the right manufacturer’s warranty.

Did you zero the thing at 100 before going to 200?

Yes. I zeroed at 100 yards. The groups weren't too bad. What I'd expect out of a new barrel. But Sunday's groups were hellacious, and weird to me. I've never encountered anything quite like this before, new barrel or otherwise.

All the torque settings seem alright, at least by my measure. This weekend I'll swap with my Tikka, shoot the same batch of ammo with the swapped scopes and see what comes of that.

 

[USMC8551]

Most of your issue appears to be vertical stringing which made me give a closer look to your photos. Your scope is sliding forward in your rings, if you look closely at the photos you can see the mark forward of each of the rings. On those heavy Razors you should be going a little higher than the normal 18 inch pounds, I usually go to about 22 inch pounds on mine.

View attachment 8740649

Great eyes! I didn't catch that in the photos.

I went down and pulled this out of the safe after I saw your post. I don't see those marks on the scope. They may be shadowing or an effect of the photo. I wish this was the case. It would be a little easier to explain.

Thank you for the comment and advice!

 

[Rob01]

Yes. I zeroed at 100 yards. The groups weren't too bad. What I'd expect out of a new barrel. But Sunday's groups were hellacious, and weird to me. I've never encountered anything quite like this before, new barrel or otherwise.

All the torque settings seem alright, at least by my measure. This weekend I'll swap with my Tikka, shoot the same batch of ammo with the swapped scopes and see what comes of that.

Did you clean the barrel?

Bring both scopes and swap them at the range so they are being shot in the same rifle condition.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Yes. I zeroed at 100 yards. The groups weren't too bad. What I'd expect out of a new barrel. But Sunday's groups were hellacious, and weird to me. I've never encountered anything quite like this before, new barrel or otherwise.

All the torque settings seem alright, at least by my measure. This weekend I'll swap with my Tikka, shoot the same batch of ammo with the swapped scopes and see what comes of that.

What do you mean a new barrel. Its Chrome lined. Its NOT going to break in or change. You get what you get until you shoot the chrome out (probally 20K rounds)

You sound very inexperienced and dont understand the components and how they work. Not trying to beat you up but lets step back and assume you don't know as much as you think.

Chrome lined barrels tend to shoot like shit outside of some very specific exceptions (FN, KAC, G) but that is more due to the prep before the plating process. Precision and chrome lined rarely go hand in hand.

That ammo you are using is what I would consider shit. So you are using marginal ammo in a chrome lined barrel in a new rifle that I can almost guarantee is not setup correctly for you since the LOP on those is insanely long. The MRAD also has a number of issues that could or could not contribute to it not grouping.

With that combo i wouldn't expect better than 1-1.5MOA. So that s 3" group at 200. Add in wind and shooter and viola.

So you easily have a barrel/ammo/mrad tolerance stacking issue that is before getting into your skill and abilities.

If I was playing the odds, The Scope is probably the LEAST likely issue you have.

 

[Baron23]

I thought about the scope swap as I was driving my dad home….

It could be the load; though, it was pretty standard 140gr shelf ammo out of a 24” 1:8 twist. Good thought, though. Maybe it just doesn’t like that ammo.

I’ll try different ammo this week. If it doesn’t like that, I’ll swap a scope off another rifle and see how that goes.

Those are just wild 5-round groups to me. Some thing seems off. Disappointing, but a good work through, I suppose.

S/F

That or put the Razor on a known good gun w ammo you know it likes. If the problem moves w the scope, there’s your answer.

 

[Glassaholic]

Some good advice above, not sure I can add but do you only have only one barrel for your MRAD? Another test would be to throw a different barrel in there, maybe a combo that previously shot lights out? If you don’t have another barrel then remove, re-attach and re-torque before your next outing.

Hornady Match 6.5 Creed usually got me 1/2” or less at 100 yards with my AI barrels so unless something is wrong with your barrel I doubt the factory ammo is the culprit.

 

[USMC8551]

Did you clean the barrel?

Bring both scopes and swap them at the range so they are being shot in the same rifle condition.

Yes, I did.

I've been through the Barrett, and there doesn't seem to be anything externally contributing, at least not that I'm catching. I'll swap the scopes this weekend, shoot the same batch of ammo, and see what that produces. I'm going to drop the Vortex on my Tikka and see if it performs the same, as well.

 

[carbonbased]

Buy some FGMM and also try that while you’re at it.