7mm Backcountry 195gr Berger
- Thread starter 6.5x61Super
- Start date
Sounds like somebody needs to step up to a 28 Sherman Mag. 
Bonus to the Sherman is that you don't have to admit to the general crowd that you celebrate Pride month with a 7mm Backcountry.
Bonus to the Sherman is that you don't have to admit to the general crowd that you celebrate Pride month with a 7mm Backcountry.
A 20” 28 Nosler shows the same performance as the 7 BC.Sounds like somebody needs to step up to a 28 Sherman Mag.
Bonus to the Sherman is that you don't have to admit to the general crowd that you celebrate Pride month with a 7mm Backcountry.
I wouldn't doubt it, but you are going to have to trade off charge weight (and a touch more recoil) vs pressure... so the 7BC boys probably favor the lesser charge. I wouldn't doubt if 95% of 7 Backcountry users probably stick with factory ammo for their entirety though.
The 28 Nosler is a powerhouse. I stayed away from it due to initial brass availability outside of Nosler, but now several quality brass manufacturers have come on board.
I was pretty certain they had to use a different material for the case to handle the pressure? That should severely limit brass options and the ability to reload.
Yessir. It is a steel alloy to handle the ~80K PSI. Federal has done a video where a case was reloaded (once). However, I am unsure of the aftermarket support for the cartridge as far as reloading.
Rcbs stated they have been working with the BC since the early stages of the project but haven’t been able to make dies that can resize without a good number of passes. I think it will be a long time before aftermarket support is available for it. IMO if people want 7bc performance just get a 28 nosler, it’s a factory ammo available cartridge with good aftermarket support, I’ve been having a lot of arguments on YT about it. Not to throw shade at the wildcats but not everyone especially new shooters are willing or able to figure them out.
Yeah, but without the sodomy…
Unfortunately, you lost me at RCBS. As a guy who grew up with that brand, it was sad to see their quality drop off... but I've had issues with 3 of my last 5 RCBS die sets. I have since switched to Redding and Forester. I should have done it earlier.
I second your support for the 28 Nosler. I did the 7-300PRC as it was the 'easy button' of things you might call a wildcat. I bet you could get another 50 FPS out of the 28 Nosler. Up until recently though, you were stuck with Nosler brass. Not the case anymore (pun intended).
I'm at 3,001 FPS out of my 7-300 and the 195gr Berger with a 27" barrel. Takes me 79.0gr N568 to get there. At 80.0 I ran into some pretty serious ejector swipes. Switching to a different powder might get me more speed, but I've got the widest acceptable accuracy window with this cartridge/bullet/powder/barrel combo of anything I've ever owned.
If a guy wanted the most horsepower, I'd still think that the 28 Sherman Mag might be the king. ADG makes brass for it now too... but it is really 30 SM brass that you have to neck down and fireform (need to read the fine print at the bottom for that one).
They kinda lost me before the even started, rcbs is great for new shooters and has been around for awhile but why they picked them over another reloading supply company like widden, L.E Wilson, or shit even Redding is beyond me. They should have ironed out the reloading way beforehand if they even wanted to be remotely successful at launch. I get it that they are trying to push the envelope on innovation but that’s what you do testing in a lab for, you don’t release it unfinished for the market. If you’re going to innovate actually innovate not give a half assed copy of 10 other cartridges that have existed for years with three of them being factory available.
That’s the last of my rant.
You may want to try n570 in your 7-300 prc the case volume is plenty large enough to have near or at 100% burn rates and have a good fill %. Also the reason I chose to make the example of the BC being the same as the 28 nos is just because it’s factory available and it’s more likely for new shooters and people who don’t care about reloading to look at it. I personally want a 6-6.5 prc, I’ve heard other people call it the 6 prc the performance is frightening even with the heaviest 6mm bullets. I’m just a huge 6mm fan.
I actually didn't realize how many dudes were into the big 7mms until I posted a (crappy) video of my ramblings on my cartridge choice.
There are some really solid ,284 options out there on the table for hunters. A 7mm/195 Berger EOL at 3K FPS has 28 inches LESS drop and only 2 inches more drift than a big 30cal/245 Berger at 2900 FPS... at 1,500 yards. Obviously, that is even beyond what I think most dudes who like to stretch the range of hunting shots would take. Velocity for reliable expansion (>2K FPS) is the same at about 1,050 yards.
The biggest trade-off, is that the 7s will recoil about 25% less in this matchup... but at a cost of about 25% less barrel life.
There are some really solid ,284 options out there on the table for hunters. A 7mm/195 Berger EOL at 3K FPS has 28 inches LESS drop and only 2 inches more drift than a big 30cal/245 Berger at 2900 FPS... at 1,500 yards. Obviously, that is even beyond what I think most dudes who like to stretch the range of hunting shots would take. Velocity for reliable expansion (>2K FPS) is the same at about 1,050 yards.
The biggest trade-off, is that the 7s will recoil about 25% less in this matchup... but at a cost of about 25% less barrel life.
I think N570 (or one of the unobtanium RL powders) is the ticket as well if you're chasing max velocity. That would be my first powder recommendation to a guy following my footsteps, or going to a 28 Noser/Sherman.
I got an unopened 8lb keg of N568 for a steal (same for a 500ct box of 195s), so I just went with that. Honestly, 3K FPS and 2/3 MOA accuracy was my target goal. Anything better would have been great, but I made my target goal.
*****
I'm kind of jones'ing to do a 6.5-7PRC next. It would just be an optimization of the .264 Win Mag IMO.
Shoot if your gonna go that route might as well go all out and get a 6.5-300 prc, you already have brass you can just use a neck sizing die and bring the diameter down. Basically a 6.5-300 wby at that point. Also I found a lot of n570 at sportmans warehouse somewhat recently they keep a pretty good stock of powders.
You know what you got?
Hood-rich problems
All these 6.5 whiz bangs and magnums. Just shoot a 308 already. And an Arken.
Guys who shoot Arkens can sit on popsicles blindfolded and tell you what flavor it is... just sayin'.
Send 3 fired cases to any major die company and they will make you a set of dies.
This service was available from RCBS, Hornady, Redding, C&H, and Lee.
Call and see if any provide this service today.
You could just neck size a case few times with a simple bushing die, for cases fired in your rifle. These are easy to make in a home lathe or ask your machinist & fellow shooting buddy.
The 7 BC is the real deal.
Brand new...20" 6 lb carbon rifle shooting factory 170 gr terminal ascent factory ammo 3104 fps at 93° today .166" 3 shot group...single digit S/Ds.
After firings 20 rds of 175 gr fusion tipped bullets...which had several 1/4" or less 3 shot groups...15 rds in the box at 3031 fps ave velocity single S/Ds excellent for factory ammo.
No barrel break-in, no cleaning at the range. No letting it cool. Fired 12 rds one after another the mirage was showing.
But the barrel still grouping...just moved up a bit. Put more rds in the mag, and continue shooting...
No malfunctions or stiff bolt lift, just easy normal functioning.
Recoil is moderate no pain at all.
Why carry a heavy 28 Nosler when a 6 lb 7mm BC will same thing in a light 20" barrel and much less powder ...which really multiplies recoil.
Perfect for hunters who do not reload, but I will be reloading it with steel and brass cases for everyday plinking, not necessarily getting the factory velocities with what is available to the handloader...but seeing what is possible...and if the reloads are as accurate as the factory offerings I tried today.
Brand new...20" 6 lb carbon rifle shooting factory 170 gr terminal ascent factory ammo 3104 fps at 93° today .166" 3 shot group...single digit S/Ds.
After firings 20 rds of 175 gr fusion tipped bullets...which had several 1/4" or less 3 shot groups...15 rds in the box at 3031 fps ave velocity single S/Ds excellent for factory ammo.
No barrel break-in, no cleaning at the range. No letting it cool. Fired 12 rds one after another the mirage was showing.
But the barrel still grouping...just moved up a bit. Put more rds in the mag, and continue shooting...
No malfunctions or stiff bolt lift, just easy normal functioning.
Recoil is moderate no pain at all.
Why carry a heavy 28 Nosler when a 6 lb 7mm BC will same thing in a light 20" barrel and much less powder ...which really multiplies recoil.
Perfect for hunters who do not reload, but I will be reloading it with steel and brass cases for everyday plinking, not necessarily getting the factory velocities with what is available to the handloader...but seeing what is possible...and if the reloads are as accurate as the factory offerings I tried today.
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Pound the hell out of it...totally comical and totally idiotic.
I don't think I'll follow this clown... and "he cleaned it"?
Sounds like a Savage problem.
The velocity is way low at 2840 fps for 170 gr....mine runs 3104 fps....with no heavy bolt lift at
It's a Weatherby 307...but that shouldn't make a difference in a correctly chambered rifle.
Measure the diameter of fired cases vs the unfired cases.
Ya need a fairly tight chamber diameter on your 7mm BC because steel case won't stretch as much as the brass case, which would cause the hard bolt lift, and cracked case.
Hence it appears to be a Savage problem.
Federal 's 7mm BC ammo has been really good stuff....meeting or exceeding velocity specs and good accuracy and low S/Ds especially for factory ammo.
Couldn't ask for more.
Bottom line we'll see... I'm reloading the steel cases and reached 3118 fps with Bergers 180 gr after a few rounds had a slighty stiff bolt lift... will pull the bullets on remaining few and run them at 3050 fps for a shooting max on that powder at over 90° temperature.
I'm gonna shoot the piss out of the 7mm BC and find out how many times the case can be reloaded, and how the bore and rifling appear after so many rds.
Serious stuff...
I have 7mm BC load data printed on this site...
Not for Savage rifles...at least not the one above or for comical clown show shooters.
What a fuckin idiot...
I don't think I'll follow this clown... and "he cleaned it"?
Sounds like a Savage problem.
The velocity is way low at 2840 fps for 170 gr....mine runs 3104 fps....with no heavy bolt lift at
It's a Weatherby 307...but that shouldn't make a difference in a correctly chambered rifle.
Measure the diameter of fired cases vs the unfired cases.
Ya need a fairly tight chamber diameter on your 7mm BC because steel case won't stretch as much as the brass case, which would cause the hard bolt lift, and cracked case.
Hence it appears to be a Savage problem.
Federal 's 7mm BC ammo has been really good stuff....meeting or exceeding velocity specs and good accuracy and low S/Ds especially for factory ammo.
Couldn't ask for more.
Bottom line we'll see... I'm reloading the steel cases and reached 3118 fps with Bergers 180 gr after a few rounds had a slighty stiff bolt lift... will pull the bullets on remaining few and run them at 3050 fps for a shooting max on that powder at over 90° temperature.
I'm gonna shoot the piss out of the 7mm BC and find out how many times the case can be reloaded, and how the bore and rifling appear after so many rds.
Serious stuff...
I have 7mm BC load data printed on this site...
Not for Savage rifles...at least not the one above or for comical clown show shooters.
What a fuckin idiot...
Pressure and recoil are not your friend. It's going to torch barrels much faster than conventional rounds
Dumb shit like this is just new marketing to idiots to sell more rifles. People don't need new guns so companies come out with new cartridges to force you to buy a new gun you don't need. 90% of new cartridges do nothing new or nothing better than existing rounds. The other 10% are just standardized wildcats getting Sammi approved.
Dumb shit like this is just new marketing to idiots to sell more rifles. People don't need new guns so companies come out with new cartridges to force you to buy a new gun you don't need. 90% of new cartridges do nothing new or nothing better than existing rounds. The other 10% are just standardized wildcats getting Sammi approved.
I get 2760 with the 195 out of a long barrel 284 win pretty conventionally.
Max-useful-poke is 150 yds closer in than flying them at 2900, so good enough
Max-useful-poke is 150 yds closer in than flying them at 2900, so good enough
Have you actually cut a 28 Nosler down to 20" and chronographed it?
I'm shooting 180 reloaded Bergers at 3104 fps in a 20" 7mm BC.
Plus I can 280 Ackley performance when using brass cases.
I built the dies today to run brass or steel cases out of the 7mm BC.
The most versatile 7mm on the planet...
The rifle is Light, short, handy, and versatile. Light loads a youngster could easily handle or magnum velocities...your choice and a choice on barrel life with the low pressure brass cases.
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I made reloading dies for it the day after I shot it for the first time.
Then made a die for making 7mm BC out of other brass cases for light loads.
Reloading dies were completed on the 3rd day of ownership, right after a range session with factory ammo.
Most hunters will shoot factory ammo, and the barrel will last most a lifetime of hunting. But I can reload mine, with factory steel or home built brass.
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If you’re going to reload it with brass cases why not just shoot a 280 ackley? And if you are reloading the steel cases how many passes are you doing and how much neck tension are you getting. I doubt you’re reloading the steel cases to factory velocity. My point still stands, the 28 nosler is capable of everything the bc is. If I want to I can load it down to 280 ackley velocity, or load 195s to 2900+ in 20” barrels with a properly throated chamber. Or use a 26” barrel and get 3100+ and get even more performance.
So the 28 Nosler with a 26" barrel can not keep up with the 7mm BC with a 20" as shown in Hornadys 11th edition when reloading bullets of the same weight 180 grs ...except with 95 grs US869 where it's 32 fps faster...with 6 inches more barrel.
Fact... here it is.
Thats huge! It takes 6" more barrel to begin to do what a 20" 7mm BC does in a 20" barrel.
If you want a light hunting rifle with a 20" barrel the 28 Nosler in 20" would be a lot slower with "a lot more recoil" than the 7mm BC...here again the 26" barreled 28 Nosler can not keep up with the 20" 7mm BC with all loads but one.
I'm running reloaded 180 Bergers around 3118 fps in steel cases.
The 7mm BC is the real deal in performance light hunting rifle as it was designed.
Nothing wrong with the 28 Nosler. But if you want short and light in your hunting rifle one should check out the 7mm BC.
You don't have to reload and the factory ammo is very good, fast and accurate and half the price of the 28 Nosler.
As for loading brass cases it's something I want to do, and others may be interested in doing.
I'm getting 180 gr 7 PRC velocity in brass cases when comparing the chronographed anemic Hornady factory ammo to a 20" barreled 7mm BC...180's at 2850 to 2875 fps in 24" barrels from actual chronographed loads.
One pass through the die sizes the steel cases. Use the correct lube.
I use around .0035" neck tension. But one can change that to what ever ya want with a mandrel.
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That’s funny because noslers load data which is generally more accurate than hornady for the nosler series cartridges has the 28 nosler with a 175 going faster than the 175gr fusion tipped load in a 24” with all but three of the powders listed. And if you look on other forums there are plenty of other guys getting the same or better velocities than the BC in 20” barrels with 28 nosler. Just look up 28 nosler 20” barrel velocity. The truth is that the 28 nosler is everything the 7bc is but it’s more available in ammo, aftermarket support, rifles, load data, and it’s easier to reload. You don’t have to have custom dies made for it you can just buy them at your local reloading equipment dealer.
So the 28 Nosler with a 26" barrel can not keep up with the 7mm BC with a 20" as shown in Hornadys 11th edition when reloading bullets of the same weight 180 grs ...except with 95 grs US869 where it's 32 fps faster...with 6 inches more barrel.
Fact... here it is.
Thats huge! It takes 6" more barrel to begin to do what a 20" 7mm BC does in a 20" barrel.
If you want a light hunting rifle with a 20" barrel the 28 Nosler in 20" would be a lot slower with "a lot more recoil" than the 7mm BC...here again the 26" barreled 28 Nosler can not keep up with the 20" 7mm BC with all loads but one.
I'm running reloaded 180 Bergers around 3118 fps in steel cases.
The 7mm BC is the real deal in performance light hunting rifle as it was designed.
Nothing wrong with the 28 Nosler. But if you want short and light in your hunting rifle one should check out the 7mm BC.
You don't have to reload and the factory ammo is very good, fast and accurate and half the price of the 28 Nosler.
As for loading brass cases it's something I want to do, and others may be interested in doing.
I'm getting 180 gr 7 PRC velocity in brass cases when comparing the chronographed anemic Hornady factory ammo to a 20" barreled 7mm BC...180's at 2850 to 2875 fps in 24" barrels from actual chronographed loads.
One pass through the die sizes the steel cases. Use the correct lube.
I use around .0035" neck tension. But one can change that to what ever ya want with a mandrel.
Preach brother. ^ this is the truth.
Guy is maxing handloads then comparing it to others book load. And no idea where that “less recoil” nonsense comes from.
So cut your 28 Nosler to 20" shoot some factory loads and hand loads and see what the chronograph says... I've seen some of those factory loads chronographed...they aren't whats on the box, but much lower unless shot out of a 28" plus barrel.
Can your 180 gr 28 Nosler beat 3118 fps in a 20" ...
some guys? Total LOL!
The best way is factory loads in 170 to 180 grs ...cut your 28 Nosler to 20" and compare that chronographed velocity to the 7mm BC 20" barreled velocities.
Also check to see which has better S/Ds and better accuracy.
28 Nosler ammo is twice as much
You don't have to reload to get high velocity and good ammo, at half the cost...or more, that would be the 7mm BC.
It's really that good...not that ya have to have one.
But it's one of the best hunting cartridges for hunting the backcountry, short and light to carry on long trips where you would pack a gun.
Most hunters do not handload.
Should give it a look if that's your style of hunting, short, light, and not giving up any power or range that one is likely to run across in most hunting endeavors...discounting dangerous game.
LOL The 7mm BC will have much less recoil than the 7 mm Nosler with the same bullet weight and rifle weight...powder is the largest multiplier of recoil.
Check the 95 gr load vs the 66 gr load for the fastest loads in the Hornady handbook for the 28 Nosler to reach 3150 fps...the 28 Nosler will have noticeably more recoil like 43% increase in 8 lb rifles or 47.2 ft-lbs of recoil smacking your shoulder.
One could easily shoot the 7mm BC better and put more energy on target with a shorter barrel.
Easy choice for most hunters who do not reload at this time...the 7mm BC is the choice...ammo half the cost, and 43% less recoil, plus potential for better accuracy for the average hunter...even if the performance was the same...
But if you chronograph factory loads in 20" barrels 170 to 180 gr bullets the 7mm BC will most likely win the energy, velocity competition as well... as it was designed by Federal.
Ok let’s compare factory ammo then. The 175gr accubond LR load from the 28 nosler is claiming 3125 with a 26” tube. The 7mm bc 175 fusion tipped load with the 24” is claiming the same velocity 3125. Now if you look at the 20” velocity for the BC you get 2975. That adds up to about 37.5 fps per inch of barrel. Now let’s multiply 37.5 by 6 to get the 20” velocity for the the 28 nosler. You get 2900 fps. Within 75 fps of the BC. But i can get a lot more factory ammo for the 28 nosler than the BC incase my rifle doesn’t like one of only 5 loads that federal offers.
Ah yes because everything that federal has ever designed has been great. COUGH COUGH 30 supercarry, .224 valkerie, .327 federal mag
That's the point... the 28 Nosler is considerably slower in the 20" barrel than the 7 mm BC ...130 fps slower with the 175 gr. And 200 fps slower in the 170 grs.
I have chronographed them..and your velocity loss per inch data.
The Federal 7 BC ammo is faster than what's on the box by 100 fps to 35 fps depending on the load. Not usually so with most factory ammo.
I have been pleasantly surprised by its performance. And the consistency of the federal ammo.
It's why I report on it...and started reloading for it...it's a good cartridge...and should be considered if you want performance in a light, short, hunting package, with ammo that cost less than the big magnums, with great performance and less recoil.
I purchased several boxes of the 170 gr and 175 gr...they are very accurate and low velocity spreads.
The first 3 170gr bullets at 3100 fps went into .166" Using 3 shot groups with factory ammo believe I had only 1 over 1/2 " many .4" .3"... and the smallest .054" with 180 gr Berger handload. This barrel likes the 180 gr match bullets.
It did not like the 197 SMK at 2940 fps with the 8 twist Sierra recommended a 7.5 twist...so I probably won't persue them much longer.
Even reloaded the Barnes 120 gr tipped bullet and it was over 3600 fps for a low recoil deer bullet.
If you look into the actual performance of the 7mm BC it's an outstanding development by Federal...something different from the Hornady line of Advanced Rifle and Precision Rifle cartridges most of us have more than a couple hanging around.
I have load data in this site for the 7mm BC for those interested...for both brass and steel cases.[/QUOTE]
I have chronographed them..and your velocity loss per inch data.
The Federal 7 BC ammo is faster than what's on the box by 100 fps to 35 fps depending on the load. Not usually so with most factory ammo.
I have been pleasantly surprised by its performance. And the consistency of the federal ammo.
It's why I report on it...and started reloading for it...it's a good cartridge...and should be considered if you want performance in a light, short, hunting package, with ammo that cost less than the big magnums, with great performance and less recoil.
I purchased several boxes of the 170 gr and 175 gr...they are very accurate and low velocity spreads.
The first 3 170gr bullets at 3100 fps went into .166" Using 3 shot groups with factory ammo believe I had only 1 over 1/2 " many .4" .3"... and the smallest .054" with 180 gr Berger handload. This barrel likes the 180 gr match bullets.
It did not like the 197 SMK at 2940 fps with the 8 twist Sierra recommended a 7.5 twist...so I probably won't persue them much longer.
Even reloaded the Barnes 120 gr tipped bullet and it was over 3600 fps for a low recoil deer bullet.
If you look into the actual performance of the 7mm BC it's an outstanding development by Federal...something different from the Hornady line of Advanced Rifle and Precision Rifle cartridges most of us have more than a couple hanging around.
I have load data in this site for the 7mm BC for those interested...for both brass and steel cases.[/QUOTE]
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Every manufacturer of cartridges has made cartridges that didn't sell well.
But sometimes they get it right...at least if a light, short, powerful, accurate, hunting rifle fits your needs the 7mm BC is one option to consider.
