RFI on Ham Radios

[LuckyDuck]

Perhaps I should just go ahead and tag @Gunfighter14e2 on this post from the get-go but I had a question about purchasing one's first Ham radio.

For a bit of housekeeping- I've mentioned it here before but I had gotten my technician ticket a number of years ago (it's still current) and haven't done anything with it. Truth be told (and I might have said this before) but I pursued getting my license as just an alternative from drinking beer and arguing with folks here in the Pit. Reckon I thought I'd be spending my time better learning something new.

Only problem is I never didn't anything with it once I got my license initially. I had read that the volunteer testers often times would allow someone to "test up" and see if they could pass the exam for the higher license (and dang rabbit I would have passed the 'General" exam with flying colors given the opportunity) but the event I found myself in only allowed testing for the Tech license.

Alright- moving on, I'm approaching the point where I'll need to (if nothing else) renew my license with the FCC (which they're now charging for as of recent). I don't want to necessary squander my previous attempts of acquiring knowledge but I'm also struggling with renewing my license if I haven't so much have touched a HAM radio in almost 10 years.

I'm as introverted as they come but I have had it in my head that I owed it to myself to at least give this hobby an honest shake and see where that takes me.

That said- I'm looking at two polar ends of the spectrum/price point. The models I'm looking at are both handheld & triband but their prices are vastly different...

The models I'm looking at are:

This Kenwood on the "high" end: https://www.kenwood.com/usa/com/amateur/th-d75a/


and the "lower end" being this particular Yaseu, the VX-6R: https://www.yaesu.com/jp/en/products/ama_handheld.html

On one hand- since I haven't done jack squat with my HAM ticket for over half a decade- part of me wants to just be dismissive and cut my losses. If I really felt contrary- I'd buy the Yaseu and run away with my asian princess.

But- that just doesn't seem to be how it works right?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Testing up as you call it is SOP, unless the VE's had some kind of emergency. I've seen many people walk in for their first test & pass all three tests.
Price points in radio are worthless, specs are the truth Sayer. There is no draw back to either of those radios & the VX6R is what I prefer & use. I install the barometric pressure sensor (no longer available) in mine and w/a wrist temp sensor D/A was known quick. That said when teaching FNG's I/we use chink UV5R's we have modded and they exceed the ability of "Higher End Radios", in many aspects. Which would/will be much better for SHTF work, if needed. While they don't have the finesse they still get the job done. For my QTH & portables its all Kenwood for a number of reasons, but I also have Collins, Swan, Icom, Heath kit ect, in transceivers, and support gear runs the gamit.

Depending the level of ability you're after, radio can get very expensive once you're past just CW or talking. If you ever get into RF snooping it gets very, very pricey real quick. To the tune of 3-10X gun shit, no matter the shooting level. The rewards though can be huge even with a very small scale investment, if shit goes sideways. The Military Golden triangle requires you to have the ability to Shoot, Move & Communicate and none of the three come w/o training.
For basic training to get your license one of the best places is to start Here and take the test's until you are in the 90-95% range each time. The tech & general are 35 question tests but the question pool is over 400 for either, The Extra is a 50 question test with a pool of over 600 possible questions.
Now all that said, in any emergency you do not need any type of gov permission to operate any radio on any freq, but like all things you need to know how to use it and its much more, than just pushing a button. Find a club Here and they can get you or point you to someone that can get/teach you to any level, you want the ability of.

The biggest advantage of radio to me is the ability to gather info on events local and all around this rock w/o media or state sponsored spin.
Another advantage is having groups all around yours that can keep you updated about what is happening in their A/O should shit go sideways. As most all of them have different coding systems just for that. Nice to have other groups to call on for any type of help if need be,... and they all bring different skill sets.

 

[John?]

@LuckyDuck

you define your mission and kit will become obvious.

I’ll second @Gunfighter14e2 comment on finding a club. Those folks know the local RF environment and can advise on proper kit. For example, i am a long time Icom user but live in the Kaw River Valley now. Yaesu digital is the hot ticket here as most repeaters run Fusion. So if you want the option to use digital repeaters you need to know what infrastructure is available to you. FM analog repeaters are everywhere, but things are moving to digital rapidly.

General use HTs can and should be FM analog. Many to choose from. We use chinese radios modded to open them up a bit. They’re cheap and no one complains when they get lost, dropped off a ravine or run over by an ATV. It happens.

Mobile radios are different and where you should focus for VHF and UHF. INTERNET relay of some sort is a big discriminator on kit (there are many protocols depending on your local repeater set up).

Get your General ticket. It ain’t hard. My 12 year old twins have it, and my 13 year old is and Extra. All run CW at 30 wpm. Digital modes are super easy.

HF is far more useful to us than VHF/UHF. Having both is very useful.

Learn how to build wire antennas. Add in a TinySA of you choice and you’ll be off to the races for talking, listening, and RDF.

Easy Button:
Yaesu or ICOM mobile rig and power supply. Let repeater digital infrastructure drive your choice. Antenna: Arrow vertical works well. Or build your own.

HF. Basic Yaesu 710 is currently one of the best and most affordable rigs. It is what I would buy if I needed a QRO HF rig. I ran one during field day and was impressed. Antenna: 10-80 end fed half wave will get you started. Build your own after than. You will also need an antenna tuner, coax,
Power supply, etc. members of you local ham club often have gently used items for resale after an upgrade.

Hope this helps.
-john

 

[Alpine 338]

If you have time study the question pool. I prefer the FCC version, as it has the options I like. The reason maybe they didn't offer the General exam when you took the test, as I understand it, the tests have to be pre-ordered, and maybe they only ordered the Tech exams when you tested?

I would suggest the Yaesu FT-60R. It's still made in Japan vs. China as most of the comparable models are now made in a Country that hates America. I think the battery charger is made in China though. It is one of the last HT's that still has a manual squelch, and still utilizes AA batteries. All three of those things met my requirements.

Take the test, for the measley $15 and an hour or so of your time, it's worth it.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Testing up as you call it is SOP, unless the VE's had some kind of emergency. I've seen many people walk in for their first test & pass all three tests.
Price points in radio are worthless, specs are the truth Sayer. There is no draw back to either of those radios & the VX6R is what I prefer & use. I install the barometric pressure sensor (no longer available) in mine and w/a wrist temp sensor D/A was known quick. That said when teaching FNG's I/we use chink UV5R's we have modded and they exceed the ability of "Higher End Radios", in many aspects. Which would/will be much better for SHTF work, if needed. While they don't have the finesse they still get the job done. For my QTH & portables its all Kenwood for a number of reasons, but I also have Collins, Swan, Icom, Heath kit ect, in transceivers, and support gear runs the gamit.

Depending the level of ability you're after, radio can get very expensive once you're past just CW or talking. If you ever get into RF snooping it gets very, very pricey real quick. To the tune of 3-10X gun shit, no matter the shooting level. The rewards though can be huge even with a very small scale investment, if shit goes sideways. The Military Golden triangle requires you to have the ability to Shoot, Move & Communicate and none of the three come w/o training.
For basic training to get your license one of the best places is to start Here and take the test's until you are in the 90-95% range each time. The tech & general are 35 question tests but the question pool is over 400 for either, The Extra is a 50 question test with a pool of over 600 possible questions.
Now all that said, in any emergency you do not need any type of gov permission to operate any radio on any freq, but like all things you need to know how to use it and its much more, than just pushing a button. Find a club Here and they can get you or point you to someone that can get/teach you to any level, you want the ability of.

The biggest advantage of radio to me is the ability to gather info on events local and all around this rock w/o media or state sponsored spin.
Another advantage is having groups all around yours that can keep you updated about what is happening in their A/O should shit go sideways. As most all of them have different coding systems just for that. Nice to have other groups to call on for any type of help if need be,... and they all bring different skill sets.

First things first- a sincere thank you for taking your time to respond. My apologies for putting you on the spot with the OP as that wasn't my intention as much as it seemed to my experience that you were the most vocal & experienced member on the topic.

I might have shared this story here before but my LGS hosted a HAM radio class over a weekend where we went through 2 days of going through the Technician exam and tested the afternoon of the second day. It's been over 5 years but from what I remember it required 3 VE's to be present (at least at the time, maybe things changed/I'm remembering inaccurately) and 2 were extra's & 1 was a General (the instructor was an 'extra' but not part of the VE's for testing purposes. As you mentioned, I recall reading at the time that it was common to be allowed to take the higher level test after passing and I studied for my General that weekend (truth be told it didn't seem too much of a bridge further than the technician from what I remember) but they only allowed the class to test for the Technician exam that particular day.

Also appreciate your commentary about the specs being what wags the proverbial tail.

-LD

 

[LuckyDuck]

@LuckyDuck

you define your mission and kit will become obvious.

I’ll second @Gunfighter14e2 comment on finding a club. Those folks know the local RF environment and can advise on proper kit. For example, i am a long time Icom user but live in the Kaw River Valley now. Yaesu digital is the hot ticket here as most repeaters run Fusion. So if you want the option to use digital repeaters you need to know what infrastructure is available to you. FM analog repeaters are everywhere, but things are moving to digital rapidly.

General use HTs can and should be FM analog. Many to choose from. We use chinese radios modded to open them up a bit. They’re cheap and no one complains when they get lost, dropped off a ravine or run over by an ATV. It happens.

Mobile radios are different and where you should focus for VHF and UHF. INTERNET relay of some sort is a big discriminator on kit (there are many protocols depending on your local repeater set up).

Get your General ticket. It ain’t hard. My 12 year old twins have it, and my 13 year old is and Extra. All run CW at 30 wpm. Digital modes are super easy.

HF is far more useful to us than VHF/UHF. Having both is very useful.

Learn how to build wire antennas. Add in a TinySA of you choice and you’ll be off to the races for talking, listening, and RDF.

Easy Button:
Yaesu or ICOM mobile rig and power supply. Let repeater digital infrastructure drive your choice. Antenna: Arrow vertical works well. Or build your own.

HF. Basic Yaesu 710 is currently one of the best and most affordable rigs. It is what I would buy if I needed a QRO HF rig. I ran one during field day and was impressed. Antenna: 10-80 end fed half wave will get you started. Build your own after than. You will also need an antenna tuner, coax,
Power supply, etc. members of you local ham club often have gently used items for resale after an upgrade.

Hope this helps.
-john

To your point John,

I think you hit the nail on the head of why I'm struggling to select a radio. I really don't know what I'm after, what I'm trying to do, or even why I care. As I mentioned previously, I had pursued getting my ticket mainly because I had a lot of experience with radios in a previous life and figured a weekend spent learning something was a better use of my time than watching tv & drinking beer. Reckon that's a big part of why I haven't done anything with it since getting my technician license too.

Reckon I need to do some more homework before I make any decisions here.

Thank you for the commentary though!

-LD

 

[LuckyDuck]

If you have time study the question pool. I prefer the FCC version, as it has the options I like. The reason maybe they didn't offer the General exam when you took the test, as I understand it, the tests have to be pre-ordered, and maybe they only ordered the Tech exams when you tested?

I would suggest the Yaesu FT-60R. It's still made in Japan vs. China as most of the comparable models are now made in a Country that hates America. I think the battery charger is made in China though. It is one of the last HT's that still has a manual squelch, and still utilizes AA batteries. All three of those things met my requirements.

Take the test, for the measley $15 and an hour or so of your time, it's worth it.

I actually looked into the Yaesu FT-60 previously so I catch what you're getting at & truth be told that's the exact model that I almost purchased when I first got my ticket but I got overwhelmed with the number of options/capabilities on the market and seem to remember being stuck in the details on whether spending the money for a waterproof/resistant & tri-band Yaesu would be worth the extra $.

Classic "paralysis of the analysis" I suppose.

Thanks for the advice though!

-LD

 

[LuckyDuck]

Just as a follow up-

I've kept trying to get smarter and knock the rust off since it'd been a number of years since getting my ticket and trying to better define what I was after. In addition to the previously discussed models I also was comparing the FT-70DR model as being perhaps less ruggedly built but with digital options. However one of the comments I came across was to take inventory of the number/location of fusion repeaters near me to leverage it and I think I found two total within the surrounding 4 counties here so that played into my thought process.

I suspected that there may be deals around Labor Day and ended up being correct after looking at HRO, GigaParts, & DXe. Ultimately HRO seemed to have the best overall prices so that's who I went with and picked up the VX-6R for my first radio (it was just north of $200 with the sale) and unlike the Kenwood I mentioned, figured this gets me something of quality to play with and start formulating opinions and left me with some extra money to put into accessories. It came down to that or the FT-60R that was recommended here but for the $80 difference I chose the 6R for the smaller form factor, tri-band ability, and water resistance.

In case there's any interest, the add-on's I went with were:

* MARS Mod (seems like it essentially just removed a resistor and is the hardware equivalent of 'jailbreaking' the unit). With the VX-6R being a popular option I found some videos showing it done and while I felt comfortable making the modification myself with how straightforward it is, I just don't have any of the equipment to do such with the finesse I'd require for my preferences.

* A handful of Diamond branded antennas. Thought process being that I distinctly remember hearing that the factory "rubber ducks" suck and that a quality antenna was one of the most bang for your buck change. Specifically a 13.75 tri-band (SRH320A) which seemed to get the most frequent recommendations for adding capability while keeping a the footprint manageable/relative to the small size of the transceiver. And since the whole point is to screw around with this and get smarter I also grabbed the dual band stubby 2.75" (SRHF10) & 7.75" (SRH519) as the middle ground. For about $20-$25 I threw them in to compare and contrast with real world differences.

* A spare lithium ion battery & rapid charger.

* A speaker microphone. Grabbed the Standard Horizon MH-73A4B specifically because it was built to the same submersible rating as the handheld and a crap mic is maddening from my memory of using radios professionally in the past.

*Lastly I added some pocket quick reference cheat sheet specific to the radio as well as a programming cable w/out the associated software. I'm going to give it a try using Chirp first but depending how that goes, I might pony up the $25 for the RT Systems ADMS program. Ideally I'm trying to run the software on MacOS which they both claim to support but time will tell.

All said and done- I'm out about $550 for the VX-6R including all the other add-on's I threw in the cart. I know it's apples to oranges as far as the radio capabilities go but that still puts me $100 less than purchasing the Kenwood TH-D75A alone at its current sale price. So I think I allocated my dollars wisely and have a good starting point to build from.

If you're still with me- I'd welcome any thoughts on how I ultimately did. Hopefully the items ordered are indicative of research having actually been done on the topic and not the result of haphazard clicking on shinny things but if I screwed the proverbial pooch with anything on this order I'd like to know about it at least and why I was misguided.

Thanks again for everyone's help on this.

-LD

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

In case there's any interest, the add-on's I went with were:

* MARS Mod (seems like it essentially just removed a resistor and is the hardware equivalent of 'jailbreaking' the unit). With the VX-6R being a popular option I found some videos showing it done and while I felt comfortable making the modification myself with how straightforward it is, I just don't have any of the equipment to do such with the finesse I'd require for my preferences.

You have a MARS call sign & license? Or has HRO changed their policy?

 

[John?]

You have a MARS call sign & license? Or has HRO changed their policy?

HRO sells MARS mod to anyone with cash. They didn’t bother to ask for my MARS credentials when we upgraded radios.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

HRO sells MARS mod to anyone with cash. They didn’t bother to ask for my MARS credentials when we upgraded radios.

Interesting. I always did my own but, its been 10-12 years since I bought a new radio so guess I'm out of touch on that front. Will they open it up to TX between 30 & 50Mhz or do you still have to do that yourself?

 

[John?]

@Gunfighter14e2 - they completely open the radio.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

@Gunfighter14e2 - they completely open the radio.

HRO opens it to Tx on 30 to 50Mhz???

 

[LuckyDuck]

There be the haul.

-LD

 

[LuckyDuck]

Another pic for good measure... I'm kinda excited about this endeavor and learning more.

-LD

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

View attachment 8757495

Another pic for good measure... I'm kinda excited about this endeavor and learning more.

-LD

Once you get into HF you'll find a totally different world vs being restricted by repeaters that are controlled by others.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Once you get into HF check out this Link. It will keep you up to date and allow finding others around you which will lead you on to bigger & better things, radio.

 

[Ronws]

I did not get into operating a HAM radio rig but my step-grandfather was into it. In fact, he would give me his older copies of the Ham radio handbook. Got me books on electronics. At 11, he was teaching me the shortcut to single variable differential calculus and integral calculus. Then he gave my high school primers on Einstein's fear of relatives, I mean, theories of relativity.

I simply did not have the money for it but he did.

Long story short, he had a really nice Kenwood base station and erected his own antenna in the backyard.

So, I don't know about the other off-brand in here, though it may be good. But I do know that Kenwood has been doing this stuff for more decades.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

But I do know that Kenwood has been doing this stuff for more decades.

and sadly Kenwood stopped being interested in Ham radio about 7-8 years ago. I was talking to a Kenwood eng at the Huntsville Hamfast back then and he said their Ham radio sale were so low it was no longer profitable for them. Course they sowed & hoed that garden their self by not keeping up with wanted trinkets on the gear.

I've a few Kenwoods that I use for base station, mobile, and portable work that have been bullet proof so far. That said Icom & Yeasu have surpassed Kenwood with many adders that can not even be retrofitted to most Kenwoods w/o a computer & sound card being added & working in conjunction with. I still prefer my Kenwoods though as some of the setting allow dragging some stations out of the weeds vs some other radios. I find working splits & cross-band repeat is faster (at least for me) if I have to switch operational modes quick as well. On digital my Yeasu's have too much of a set up lag time for me, when doing some things during the Armed Forces day crossband test.

 

[LuckyDuck]

and sadly Kenwood stopped being interested in Ham radio about 7-8 years ago. I was talking to a Kenwood eng at the Huntsville Hamfast back then and he said their Ham radio sale were so low it was no longer profitable for them. Course they sowed & hoed that garden their self by not keeping up with wanted trinkets on the gear.

I've a few Kenwoods that I use for base station, mobile, and portable work that have been bullet proof so far. That said Icom & Yeasu have surpassed Kenwood with many adders that can not even be retrofitted to most Kenwoods w/o a computer & sound card being added & working in conjunction with. I still prefer my Kenwoods though as some of the setting allow dragging some stations out of the weeds vs some other radios. I find working splits & cross-band repeat is faster (at least for me) if I have to switch operational modes quick as well. On digital my Yeasu's have too much of a set up lag time for me, when doing some things during the Armed Forces day crossband test.

That's a shame but likely explains why the TM-D710 disappeared from their website. That always looked like a cool mobile to me.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Once you get into HF check out this Link. It will keep you up to date and allow finding others around you which will lead you on to bigger & better things, radio.

Appreciate it, I'll check it out.

 

[Alpine 338]

View attachment 8757475

There be the haul.

-LD

Well, you made me go out and buy another FT-60, since there was a $20 off factory coupon when ordering from HRO.

I went ahead and ordered a Comet 15" dual band antenna to go with it, so hopefully it works better than the factory antenna, as I have a hard time getting through on my local repeater when I'm inside the house. I can key the repeater, but my audio doesn't get through. It doesn't help having a metal roof, and a ridgeline between me and the repeater that's about 35+ miles away.

I'm going to be in Denver next week, and if I have the time, I may swing by the local HRO. It's been over 20 years since I was last in that store, and probably 15 years since I was in the Dallas store.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I went ahead and ordered a Comet 15" dual band antenna to go with it, so hopefully it works better than the factory antenna,

It should, the factory rubber duckies just work OK for most stuff, but Comets or Diamonds work much better. On the UV5R's we train folks with, we stepped them up to after market 16" and they work much better, while still being flexible. When we put the PRYME AL-800's on them really step them up, but they are none flexible which is an issue 90% of the time. We were going to try some of the longer folding types but have not done so yet. If anyone has tried them, I'd be interested in their results.