Rifle Scopes New Nightforce MPVO????

[nrspence]

Anyone have any insight on a new Nightforce MPVO coming out for shot show? All the nightforce folks I’ve ask about it have hinted towards something new coming out to replace the 2.5-10x42 NXS. You can’t even order the 10x NXS with the military discount anymore. I would love to see a 2-12x42 with a 30mm tube 28oz or less with nx8 or better glass, capped windage, zero hold turret, FFP or SFP wouldn’t matter to me. FC DMX reticle if it is FFP.

 

[Bevan]

man that'd be sick.

FFP plz


24 oz or less

 

[Bevan]

man that'd be sick.

FFP plz


24 oz or less

Ah I'm not going to get my hopes up. They'll make a mess of it. I've been waiting 15 years for the right scope to come out and they always make a mess of it.

 

[nrspence]

Ah I'm not going to get my hopes up. They'll make a mess of it. I've been waiting 15 years for the right scope to come out and they always make a mess of it.

Exactly! I’ll be happy with a capped windage for the 2-10x42 NXS

 

[Patrick1956]

The latest Mile High email was all about it.

 

[Bevan]

The latest Mile High email was all about it.

oh? do share

 

[dms416]

The latest Mile High email was all about it.

Whoa, whoa....slow down with all the details, Chief!

 

[NateVA]

oh? do share

All the cool kids have been talking about it. You wouldn't know them though, they go to a different school.

 

[paulrem308]

It's everything you wanted and more..... for only $7999.00 or some retarded outrageous price.

 

[Bevan]

It's everything you wanted and more..... for only $7999.00 or some retarded outrageous price.

I'm betting that it's almost perfect, but has one fatal flaw from the list below:

- reticle is impractically fine, and invisible below 8x
- 0.2 mil adjustments
- SFP (lol)
- >24 ounces
- No parallax adjustment
- weird tube diameter
- not available in brown paint


I hope it's only the last one

 

[beetroot]

Anything in the 1.5-15 zoom range is fine with me, 4x - 8x erector ratio I'm not bothered,
I'm guessing the reticle will be messed up (thin and impossible to see under 6x) and weigh more than 24oz.

So long as the windage is capped I'm happy with locking or exposed elevation.
Either 30mm or 34mm is fine.
Objective should be bigger than 30mm, I can live with 32 but 42 will be better.
Rotating ocular is fine, but then it'll be an ATACR and cost $3500 which is less exciting.

Watch it be a SHV 2.5-8, SFP, MOA, exposed knobs and still weigh 28oz.

 

[Patrick1956]

My bad. I just skimmed it because of low interest. It was just a comparison.

 

[dms416]

The latest Mile High email was all about it.

My bad. I just skimmed it because of low interest. It was just a comparison.

Name checks out...

 

[FatBoy]

It’d be nice if they dropped it soon. I have a 6ARC about to complete and I’d like a 42mm ATACR, but would be good with something similar and maybe a touch less weight/shorter, etc. and, Ahhhem, MOA with 1/4 minute locking turrets and a simple FFP striated medium thickness reticle. I’m getting sick of course adjustments and zeros that aren’t zero’d. (NX8 1-8) [this is why it’s so hard to drop a perfect scope, we all have out preferences]


My luck, I’ll order an ATACR and the damn thing will drop the next day…..

 

[Maverick3009]

My luck, I’ll order an ATACR and the damn thing will drop the next day…..

Well then do us all a favor and get to ordering, we need answers!

 

[Moose]

I would love to see this happen.I own one NXS compact and like it and have been waiting for a Gen 2 for years.

 

[Burdy]

It’d be nice if they dropped it soon. I have a 6ARC about to complete and I’d like a 42mm ATACR, but would be good with something similar and maybe a touch less weight/shorter, etc. and, Ahhhem, MOA with 1/4 minute locking turrets and a simple FFP striated medium thickness reticle. I’m getting sick of course adjustments and zeros that aren’t zero’d. (NX8 1-8) [this is why it’s so hard to drop a perfect scope, we all have out preferences]


My luck, I’ll order an ATACR and the damn thing will drop the next day…..

Sounds like you need the 4-16 ATACR anyways. I've got two, probably gonna be three soon, still an incredible optic.

 

[nrspence]

Sounds like you need the 4-16 ATACR anyways. I've got two, probably gonna be three soon, still an incredible optic.

I love the 4-16 ATACR still one of the best MPVOish scopes available.

 

[Burdy]

I love the 4-16 ATACR still one of the best MPVOish scopes available.

I mean, lets be honest, if the sucker weighed 6 ounces less, 99% of the "wHicH MpVo?" threads on this forum would disappear overnight.

 

[beetroot]

I mean, lets be honest, if the sucker weighed 6 ounces less, 99% of the "wHicH MpVo?" threads on this forum would disappear overnight.

Almost, make it a 3-12 and have a thicker reticle and I'd 100% agree.

 

[Burdy]

Almost, make it a 3-12 and have a thicker reticle and I'd 100% agree.

3-12 would be cool, and probably easy to make. Unfortunately it seems no other NF other than the 4-16x42 is going to get the wonderful Zerohold feature due to patents. Interesting you mention the reticle thickness. While I think the Mil-XT can appear thin in other NF models, I think it renders wonderfully in the 4-16.

 

[beetroot]

3-12 would be cool, and probably easy to make. Unfortunately it seems no other NF other than the 4-16x42 is going to get the wonderful Zerohold feature due to patents. Interesting you mention the reticle thickness. While I think the Mil-XT can appear thin in other NF models, I think it renders wonderfully in the 4-16.

For a 3-12 I’d want a thicker reticle is all.

I’m not huge fan of that Leupold style zero lock and prefer a normal locking turret, for two reasons:
Being able to have completely unlocked (don’t have to unlock each time go from zero).
The ability to lock at any position (I like being able to zero at 100, but have the ability to “zero” at another distance and do holds from there).

Especially on a rimfire, I’ll zero at 30meters (random distance I know) but for hunting purposes will then dial up to a 50m zero and lock the turret.

I don’t mind push pull style locks, but a lever like the S&B DTii+ is probably my favorite lock design.

 

[Burdy]

For a 3-12 I’d want a thicker reticle is all.

I’m not huge fan of that Leupold style zero lock and prefer a normal locking turret, for two reasons:
Being able to have completely unlocked (don’t have to unlock each time go from zero).
The ability to lock at any position (I like being able to zero at 100, but have the ability to “zero” at another distance and do holds from there).

Especially on a rimfire, I’ll zero at 30meters (random distance I know) but for hunting purposes will then dial up to a 50m zero and lock the turret.

I don’t mind push pull style locks, but a lever like the S&B DTii+ is probably my favorite lock design.

I guess it depends on how you use it. If I am shooting a DMR style match and have targets at 300, 600 and 800, I will usually just dial that 300 yard DOPE at 1.5MIL, and then hold the difference on the rest. If it is something like NRL Hunter, I am going to dial every single target. At the end of the stage I am coming back to "0" and starting the process all over again. Not sure how the zero hold affects that in any way. I do really like its security when trekking through the woods on a hunt however.
I agree on the rimfire, its why I run the 4-32 NX8 on that one, really just need a zero stop and no locking turret there.
I have not spent any time with that particular S&B system, I will check that out in Jan.

 

[FatBoy]

I mean, lets be honest, if the sucker weighed 6 ounces less, 99% of the "wHicH MpVo?" threads on this forum would disappear overnight.

Alas, you have forgotten that this is the internet

It’s likely what I’ll end up with. If I get my 6ARC upper this weekend I may move a 3-15 NXS F1 into it for the Oct DMR match. It’s bigger than I like and I’d need to do an offset red dot (which I don’t like), but I’m short on time and funds so I’ve gotta make something I have work.

Or shoot one of my SPRs….

 

[dms416]

Almost, make it a 3-12 and have a thicker reticle and I'd 100% agree.

AT one time I would have said 3-12x was enough. After monkeying with the Steiner 2-12, it felt like a tease and I've changed my tune and if I'm going to look at anything over 10x (with optics like the ZCO and MK5), we gotta start 15-16x.

 

[beetroot]

AT one time I would have said 3-12x was enough. After monkeying with the Steiner 2-12, it felt like a tease and I've changed my tune and if I'm going to look at anything over 10x (with optics like the ZCO and MK5), we gotta start 15-16x.

I think this is the problem with this whole dream MPVO concept.
It’s such a wide “category” it’s impossible to please everyone.
People want 1.5-2x on the low end, but more than 10x on the high end, yet will run an RDS making anything less than 3x unnecessary.
Not to mention needs to be less that 10” and have Tangent Theta glass quality.

For the hunting and competition shooting I do, all I really want is a 3-12x42 and/or 4-16x42 with an FFP reticle that is easily visible at 3 or 4x, and doesn’t weigh too much.
Pretty much all of my hunting and non-precision comp guns would be covered by either a 3-12 or 4-16 (or 2.5-10) with a wide FOV.

So yes I agree, a 15x-16x top end scope would be a nice option to have, but I’d like a lower magnification options as well and both need to be lightweight

 

[dms416]

I think this is the problem with this whole dream MPVO concept.
It’s such a wide “category” it’s impossible to please everyone.
People want 1.5-2x on the low end, but more than 10x on the high end, yet will run an RDS making anything less than 3x unnecessary.
Not to mention needs to be less that 10” and have Tangent Theta glass quality.

For the hunting and competition shooting I do, all I really want is a 3-12x42 and/or 4-16x42 with an FFP reticle that is easily visible at 3 or 4x, and doesn’t weigh too much.
Pretty much all of my hunting and non-precision comp guns would be covered by either a 3-12 or 4-16 (or 2.5-10) with a wide FOV.

So yes I agree, a 15x-16x top end scope would be a nice option to have, but I’d like a lower magnification options as well and both need to be lightweight

Agreed, it's a wide class/concept spanning pretty much equally rooted in EVERY discipline where most other classes are anchored in one discipline (tactical, comp, hunting). Tough to please everyone but the core concepts are all there.

IF they (the industry)can get the 12x out of 12 to not be pushing the optical limits and be forgiving enough AND have an appropriately thick reticle/stadia I'd be down but I haven't seen this offering yet. IMHO, theres still room between the 4-16ATACR and the 2-12 that is not the Leupy mk5 3.6-18x

From what I'm seeing is we're trying way too hard to push downward into the low power at the expense of top end magnification for the erector ratio and/or the reticle.

I don't know of hardly anything that will be done on 2 or 2.5x that can't be done on 3x but concede that 4x might be too much for a few things especially if the reticle is compromised.. And this is of course if we have no tunneling on the bottom end AND don't need that extra 0.5-1x to get into a thick enough reticle to be useful to compare the mere magnification values.

 

[Burdy]

Agreed, it's a wide class/concept spanning pretty much equally rooted in EVERY discipline where most other classes are anchored in one discipline (tactical, comp, hunting). Tough to please everyone but the core concepts are all there.

.............................

I don't know of hardly anything that will be done on 2 or 2.5x that can't be done on 3x but concede that 4x might be too much for a few things especially if the reticle is compromised.. And this is of course if we have no tunneling on the bottom end AND don't need that extra 0.5-1x to get into a thick enough reticle to be useful to compare the mere magnification values.

Agree on your first point wholeheartedly.

I think DFP or diffraction grated illumination could solve the problem on the bottom end, where you just simply rely on a red dot like experience at the lower end of the range.

 

[dms416]

Agree on your first point wholeheartedly.

I think DFP or diffraction grated illumination could solve the problem on the bottom end, where you just simply rely on a red dot like experience at the lower end of the range.

I would 100% be all for that or perhaps the wider parts of the 3,6,9 stadia that aren't visible on the higher mags could give me some bearing and a nice floating dot on what at the bottom end is fundamentally a #7fd reticle 2-4x

Whether by design or not, the Steiner 2-12 mil has come the closest (and Koshkin mentions this in his review) in having the precise .2 mil on the higher mag, the 1 mil dots at 6x and a fine crosshair at the bottom end...just too bad it didn't have the support for illumination at the bottom end. ZCO 210 is a little better at this but is far from perfect.

Essentially I want some #7 Zenith short dot/flash dot action up to 6x
Legible mils or .5 mil stadia 6-10x (think Gen 2 XR)
My full-on .2 mil tree above 10x

2 models...one with a 2nd FP dot. The other with illuminated reticle/crosshair

 

[Terry Cross]

I mean, lets be honest, if the sucker weighed 6 ounces less, 99% of the "wHicH MpVo?" threads on this forum would disappear overnight.

So true.
It's heavy and physically on the Big Girl side but damn it works really, really well.

Best way to make peace with the weight is to go handle a Gen II Razor for a few minutes. Coming back will make the 4-16 ATACR seem like a compact/lightweight by comparison! LOL

 

[rlsmith1]

I have high hopes for this. They have a good model in the 42mm ATACR and they tried to cram to much into the 20x NX8. If they could slim down the NX8 2.5-20 and make a 2-10 or 2-12 they should have a winner. Heck even a 2-10 ATACR would be great as long as it isn't super heavy.

Long way of saying they don't have far to go from a couple of their models to make a great optic that is a step up from an LPVO

 

[al22300]

Use the NXS 2.5-10x42 body and squeeze in all the awesomeness of the 4-16x42 with very little increase in weight (max 24 oz) and I would be ecstatic. Slim it down just a tad more (objective lense/length) and give us another model in 3-12x (max 21 oz) and 99% of us would be happy.

 

[Moose]

So true.
It's heavy and physically on the Big Girl side but damn it works really, really well.

Best way to make peace with the weight is to go handle a Gen II Razor for a few minutes. Coming back will make the 4-16 ATACR seem like a compact/lightweight by comparison! LOL

I remember years ago mounting a Gen II Razor on my rifle and it was like mounting a sledge hammer on top of the rifle.

 

[carbonbased]

All I want is a 0.5x-50x at 10oz at $350.

Lol

I think that this whole MVPO area is a honey trap for whingers. Like, “The scope is perfect but…”

• it’s six oz too heavy!
• it’s 1.5” too long!
• the objective isn’t 44mm!
• the clicks suck!
• but the reticle is !
• the mag range is for retards!
• I’m a cheap bastard!
• the illumination ate my balls!
• etc!

It’s been said before, but beats repeating.

 

[al22300]

All I want is a 0.5x-50x at 10oz at $350.

Lol

I think that this whole MVPO area is a honey trap for whingers. Like, “The scope is perfect but…”

• it’s six oz too heavy!
• it’s 1.5” too long!
• the objective isn’t 44mm!
• the clicks suck!
• but the reticle is !
• the mag range is for retards!
• I’m a cheap bastard!
• the illumination ate my balls!
• etc!

It’s been said before, but beats repeating.

The majority isn’t asking for tech that doesn’t exist. Mostly asking for old tech with the right combination of features in one scope that no one understands or thinks will sell. Whoever runs with it and gets it right will make money but I’m not holding my breath……..whatever.

 

[carbonbased]

Mostly asking for old tech with the right combination of features in one scope

Yeah, that’s the whole thrust of my post. Nothing about new tech in there.

So, let’s say someone comes up with your perfect scope. What are you, personally, willing to pay?

 

[al22300]

Wo

Yeah, that’s the whole thrust of my post. Nothing about new tech in there.

So, let’s say someone comes up with your perfect scope. What are you, personally, willing to pay?

Would buy several at 2k or less. If it’s pushing 3k then only one at the moment.

 

[carbonbased]

Would buy several at 2k or less. If it’s pushing 3k then only one at the moment.

You kinda slipped in a new criteria in there (“several for $X”) lol.

Just giving you some shit.

To me, this magical MVPO seems to be a $3k-$4k optic. And price is usually the ultimate whinge-excuse to bail out of buying this dream optic.

I mean, I get the desire. I’m that way with thermals.

I want a 640 clip-on thermal that’s US-made, autofocusing, 18650-only batteries and lasts 8hrs per at -20°F, integrated LRF, 6oz, fully collimated, adjustable height QD mount, works as a helmet mount or hand scanner, recoil operated audio/video recording, auto transfers vid to my phone, all for $1500-$2000.

Oh, and it should be able to get me a 20% return (minimum!!) in the stock market.

 

[carbonbased]

Ok, obv joking about the stock market.

It needs to actually get 50% profit on the FX currency market!

But with my actual no-joke thermal wish example, hopefully some dudes can see the pie-in-the-sky thinking that seems weirdly acceptable in the MVPO “space”.

I mean, if I stated that in a thermal thread I’d be laughed at, tarred, feathered, drawn, quartered, etc.

 

[SRPowah]

I don't understand the people pushing for erector multiples that come with physics compromises in a weight/size class that physically can't contain the compromises, with a mag range that comes with reticle compromises...

I originally wanted the 2.5-10x to become an updated 3-12x. Light and bombproof, Mil-R is alright at 3x... A lighter 4-16x42 would be an instant buy. Updating the 4-16x42 to a 4-20x without a weight/size increase would be an instant buy. Multiple possibilities that could satisfy my desires... Still excited for an NX5 or NX6 range, but have a sinking feeling they will either have a nasty compromise or they will somehow cost $3k street price for sub-ATACR quality

 

[carbonbased]

I’ll whinge a bit. Now you’ve gotten me wishing (you bastards!).

What I want NF to do is an improved Vortex PST II 3-15x44. It already has a seriously TT-level FOV at 41.2’ @100 yds. (NX8 2.5-20 is 41.8’, btw). 28.1oz. Has sleeper glass for the price range.

This is what I want improved upon:

• Locking turrets (at least capped windage)

It’d be nice to have (but if not, ok):

• 3-18x
• 24oz
• For tree fans, bring back the EBR-2D limited-release reticle (below) as an option, again with abbreviated top stadia. Maybe .2 hashes for first 1-2mils of windage
• Simple cross reticle option, maybe with abbreviated top stadia á la Minox MR4 (I suppose the Mil-C would work, just reduce the amount of numbers everywhere)

Fantasy-land:

• 21oz
• Nuclear-bright red dot like the Razor 1-10
• 56mm objective

 

[beetroot]

I’ll whinge a bit. Now you’ve gotten me wishing (you bastards!).

What I want NF to do is an improved Vortex PST II 3-15x44. It already has a seriously TT-level FOV at 41.2’ @100 yds. (NX8 2.5-20 is 41.8’, btw). 28.1oz. Has sleeper glass for the price range.

This is what I want improved upon:

• Locking turrets (at least capped windage)

It’d be nice to have (but if not, ok):

• 3-18x
• 24oz
• For tree fans, bring back the EBR-2D limited-release reticle (below) as an option, again with abbreviated top stadia. Maybe .2 hashes for first 1-2mils of windage
• Simple cross reticle option, maybe with abbreviated top stadia á la Minox MR4 (I suppose the Mil-C would work, just reduce the amount of numbers everywhere)

Fantasy-land:

• 21oz
• Nuclear-bright red dot like the Razor 1-10
• 56mm objective

View attachment 8775411

Similar to what I think.

5-10 years ago there were quite a few options in that 2/3-10/12 mag range, but the LPVO craze killed them all off.

An updated Bushnell LRHS (better FOV, lighter weight), PST G1 2.5-10 (better turrets, better FOV), Burris XTR2 2-10 (lower weight), is all I'm really looking for.

The annoying part is Vortex released the Viper HD series and didn't do a FFP version of the 3-15 or 2-10, which with the right reticle would be perfect.

The old 4x and 5x ration scopes of 10 years ago could easily be updated, and not cost $3000 each.

I get the March 1.5-15 is a awesome bit if engineering and if I only had one rifle that I used for everything I'd buy one.
But have 5 different rifles that get uses for 5 different things.

 

[carbonbased]

The annoying part is Vortex released the Viper HD series and didn't do a FFP version of the 3-15 or 2-10, which with the right reticle would be perfect.

I noticed that as well. Wtf Vortex?

 

[beetroot]

I Spy New Baby Theos 2-10x

I love the 6-36 Theos I have. I've got a Grey and a Black. Cool to see them tossing FDE into the mix. Truth be told, I'll probably grab another 6-36 if they offer the tan on that one too. Either way, without much for specs, this looks like it'll be a bad ass MPVO. Hard to tell, but it looks...

www.snipershide.com

Here it is boys, the dream MPVO.
You can pack up your bags and go home now.

@Bevan