How do you know if bedding is needed?

[stello1001]

Hey fellow hiders,

TLDR:

Torquing and loosening action screws causes action to shift up and down. Stock has aluminum bedding block but maybe its not making a perfect mate.

FULL STORY:

I've got a rifle that quite frankly I can't seem to get shooting to my liking and struggles with consistency. It's a cheap rifle to start with, so I'm not expecting half inch groups all the time or smaller. It's a howa mini in 6.5 grendel with a bell and Carlson stock.

I chose this stock because I have another howa mini with a boyds stock that did not come with an aluminum bedding block so that one for sure needed to be bedded.

I did not want to go through all that again so I got a stock with a bedding block in it hoping that would be the easy button. I've thrown many different bullets, primers, and powders.

The problem is, I'll get a decent group once while doing a ladder and when I load that charge again to verify, it's nowhere near the initial result. I cannot repeat results when something looks good. Throughout many strings, I've had very low ESs & SDs on multiple occasions but never decent groups. Or as said previously, if I see a good group, it will not repeat it.

As I torque down or loosen the action screws, the whole thing starts to shift up or down. I've tried holding it pressed up against the stock, believing that the entire flat bottom of the action is mated up perfectly along the length of the bedding block. So it should not move since there is technically no pivot point, right? The entire length of the action bottom is pressed up against the bedding block.

Well maybe I'm starting to think I'm wrong and that's not the case. If there was a high point somewhere in between, it would cause the action to pivot. That would create a point of stress no? Am I onto something? Is there another way to diagnose if the action is stressed in the stock? Let me know yalls thoughts.

Below is a list of components I've thrown at it.

Virgin Starline
1x Starline

CCI 450
RUAG primers

BLC2
TAC
Benchmark
Varget

123 SST
130 AR Hybrids
107 SMK
107 TMK
120 Match Burner
120 AMAX

 

[Ronin22]

Step 1. Don’t buy a piece of shit gun.

Follow me for more nuggets of phenomenal advice.

 

[stello1001]

Step 1. Don’t buy a piece of shit gun.

Follow me for more nuggets of phenomenal advice.

Cool story!

 

[Ronin22]

Cool story!

Your post is a complete TLDR waste of time.

 

[Ronws]

Any stock, especially the cheap ones, need some improvements in bedding. This takes them out of the light and budget realm, though. So, yeah, fix the bedding problem. I like the Boyd because you can get aluminum pillars for bedding. But I really like the rifles I have in a chassis. that provides a solid foundation and real free floating of the barrel.

 

[Mulepackhunter]

If you start to tighten your actions screws and they are SQUISHY at all you have a bad fit. The screws should touch and tighten right away with no flex or give (SQUISHY) Its an easy sell when I show someone hands on the difference.

 

[moosemeat]

Bed it. Never had a rifle shooting worse after bedding.

 

[diggler1833]

Hey fellow hiders,

TLDR:

Torquing and loosening action screws causes action to shift up and down. Stock has aluminum bedding block but maybe its not making a perfect mate.

There's your answer man (in bold).

Bunch of mass produced parts with a focus on price point and production times.

Bedding might not help in a few cases, but it will never hurt as long as you don't screw up the process. Frequently it helps. FWIW, I always skim bedded my aluminum bedding blocks on my old H-S and B&C stocks. There was definitely some points where contact needed to be improved.

 

[Baron23]

Hey fellow hiders,

TLDR:

Torquing and loosening action screws causes action to shift up and down. Stock has aluminum bedding block but maybe its not making a perfect mate.

FULL STORY:

I've got a rifle that quite frankly I can't seem to get shooting to my liking and struggles with consistency. It's a cheap rifle to start with, so I'm not expecting half inch groups all the time or smaller. It's a howa mini in 6.5 grendel with a bell and Carlson stock.

I chose this stock because I have another howa mini with a boyds stock that did not come with an aluminum bedding block so that one for sure needed to be bedded.

I did not want to go through all that again so I got a stock with a bedding block in it hoping that would be the easy button. I've thrown many different bullets, primers, and powders.

The problem is, I'll get a decent group once while doing a ladder and when I load that charge again to verify, it's nowhere near the initial result. I cannot repeat results when something looks good. Throughout many strings, I've had very low ESs & SDs on multiple occasions but never decent groups. Or as said previously, if I see a good group, it will not repeat it.

As I torque down or loosen the action screws, the whole thing starts to shift up or down. I've tried holding it pressed up against the stock, believing that the entire flat bottom of the action is mated up perfectly along the length of the bedding block. So it should not move since there is technically no pivot point, right? The entire length of the action bottom is pressed up against the bedding block.

Well maybe I'm starting to think I'm wrong and that's not the case. If there was a high point somewhere in between, it would cause the action to pivot. That would create a point of stress no? Am I onto something? Is there another way to diagnose if the action is stressed in the stock? Let me know yalls thoughts.

Below is a list of components I've thrown at it.

Virgin Starline
1x Starline

CCI 450
RUAG primers

BLC2
TAC
Benchmark
Varget

123 SST
130 AR Hybrids
107 SMK
107 TMK
120 Match Burner
120 AMAX

Rem 700 5R SS Gen 2....these guns come in a nice HS Precision stock....had to have gunsmith "true up" the bedding block as it wasn't square, plumb and true and then skim bedded it. This is a late model from Remington and the barrel is a POS....but it shot a lot better after we did this work.

Just because it has a bedding block doesn't mean that the block is square and plumb. Bed it, is my view.

 

[carbonbased]

I've tried holding it pressed up against the stock, believing that the entire flat bottom of the action is mated up perfectly along the length of the bedding block.

Flat bottom? Is this a Model 70? Or do you mean the bottom of the tubular action?

Let us know the manufacturer of the gun and stock. Tikkas can be a bit of a bitch to get seated, and then they give you a teeter totter effect.

 

[spife7980]

Flat bottom? Is this a Model 70? Or do you mean the bottom of the tubular action?

Op

It's a howa mini in 6.5 grendel with a bell and Carlson stock.

 

[stello1001]

It's just a cheap howa mini guys, so I'm not expecting benchrest accuracy. I bought it with the intention of having a cheap plinker/truck gun/loaner rifle.

I'm just gonna go ahead and learn how to bed on this rifle haha. If nothing good comes of it or I fuck it up, at least it'll serve as a guinea pig and a learning experience.

Now that I think about it, my winchester 70 heavy varmint has one of those HS precision stocks. It's skim bedded and the bedding looks like shit. But the rifle just shoots so damn good.

 

[carbonbased]

Op

I get an F in reading! Thx though.

 

[JerkyFreak]

I basically torque the front screw first without the rear screw. Then insert and torque the rear screw with the rifle muzzle up. If there is any movement of the action in relation to the stock while you torque the rear screw, you need to bed the action.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

The bedding trick with the howas is to make sure you mask the sides of the square edge under the radiused part of the action. I also mask the back of the tang, and sides of the recoil lug. The sloped front allows some dremel work after the bedding job to get relief on the front of the lug. I personally think the flat bottoms are much easier than round actions.

 

[carbonbased]

Well damn, after visiting Brownell’s to see the Howa barreled actions, I just learned the are flat bottomed! Took me a bit. I’m slow sometimes lol.

 

[CK1.0]

IMHO, bedding depends on the chassis/stock “action connection system” one is using, and one’s confidence in it depending on how their rifle gets thrown around.

I envy the Foundation John-Kyle way of doing things where the action is basically “snap in” precise. (I just haven’t found a Foundation I vibe with yet.)

With an all-aluminum chassis like an MPA/MDT where the rear and front are different sections that affect one and another as they get tweaked, I’d certainly consider it.

Generally, an aluminum v-block of some variation is pretty solid if you torque things correctly and check it every now and again.

If you think your shit might move, I’d say bed it, if you’re already squared away and understand the system you’re dealing with shouldn’t need it, that’s cool too.

(I run a Manners TCS with their mini-chassis and it’s kicked ass over multiple barrels and 4+ years, no bedding, no problem.)