Midwest Powders Discussion
- Thread starter whatsupdoc
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Just so any uninformed members reading this thread don't get confused, "Midwest Powders" is a smokeless powder line sold only through the "American Reloading" web site. These powders are used by commercial reloading companies and are not usually available to the public.
If you Google " Midwest Powders", you will get a SCAM site. There's a lot of info on the web about people getting scammed on the "Midwest Powders" site.
American Reloading is a legitimate site. Currently, they have no Midwest Powders in stock.
If you Google " Midwest Powders", you will get a SCAM site. There's a lot of info on the web about people getting scammed on the "Midwest Powders" site.
American Reloading is a legitimate site. Currently, they have no Midwest Powders in stock.
Glad to see a thread starting for this!
Bought an 8 Lb jug of MP636 that was advertised as being similar to N555 in february. Played around with mostly in 22GT but also a bit with .270 Win. About 100-125fps slower than N555 with a 35 gr charge and 88 ELDM in 22gt.
Did some testing against H4831SC and H1000 and its about 40% of the way from H831SC to H1000 looking at velocities. This sent me on a wild goose chase trying to figure out what powder was being rebranded here until I took a much closer look and found a small amount of ball/flattened ball powder in it as well and reaized it was likely a mix. Looks to be primarily a mix of some VV/RL powder with a bit of some ADI yellow powder kernels.
I'm curious how other approach load development with these midwest powders when there is a somewhat significant different in advertised comparable powder and actual results. Not thrilled its a bit off but it seems consistent with good accuracy. Just worried that if I look at it from pure velocity numbers and split the difference between H4831SC and H1000 min loads to start with, I may still be in dangerous territory since velocity isnt always a true indicator of burn rate or pressure.
Bought an 8 Lb jug of MP636 that was advertised as being similar to N555 in february. Played around with mostly in 22GT but also a bit with .270 Win. About 100-125fps slower than N555 with a 35 gr charge and 88 ELDM in 22gt.
Did some testing against H4831SC and H1000 and its about 40% of the way from H831SC to H1000 looking at velocities. This sent me on a wild goose chase trying to figure out what powder was being rebranded here until I took a much closer look and found a small amount of ball/flattened ball powder in it as well and reaized it was likely a mix. Looks to be primarily a mix of some VV/RL powder with a bit of some ADI yellow powder kernels.
I'm curious how other approach load development with these midwest powders when there is a somewhat significant different in advertised comparable powder and actual results. Not thrilled its a bit off but it seems consistent with good accuracy. Just worried that if I look at it from pure velocity numbers and split the difference between H4831SC and H1000 min loads to start with, I may still be in dangerous territory since velocity isnt always a true indicator of burn rate or pressure.
I have used the MP450 for 75-77 bullets in a couple of 223's , first time I tried the Midwest powders
and I have no complaints. 24.0 gr MP450 got me the same velocity as 23.0 gr of IMR8208 2830fps
and accuracy was just as good as the 8208 even though the MP450 is a ball powder.
I just grabbed some MP580 that is "similar to IMR4451" that I need to test. Around a year ago you
could go to American Reloading's web site where they usually had a bunch of powders in stock,
unfortunately that is no longer the case and that presents a problem where you buy a jug of powder to
try and never see the same powder again.
You could grab a few jugs but if the powder sucks, well first world problems.
and I have no complaints. 24.0 gr MP450 got me the same velocity as 23.0 gr of IMR8208 2830fps
and accuracy was just as good as the 8208 even though the MP450 is a ball powder.
I just grabbed some MP580 that is "similar to IMR4451" that I need to test. Around a year ago you
could go to American Reloading's web site where they usually had a bunch of powders in stock,
unfortunately that is no longer the case and that presents a problem where you buy a jug of powder to
try and never see the same powder again.
You could grab a few jugs but if the powder sucks, well first world problems.
I have some mp 501. I got up to 29.5g under a 40g in my 18" 20 practical for about 3600fps.
Charge weight vs velocity was.very close to lever in my 18" 6mm arc. It seemed to pretty easily drive 105s 2550.
31.6g was 2480-2500 in my 18" grendel with a 123 eld. It shot quite well around 2300. I haven't loaded the brass many times to see if the primer pockets hold up or if I am pushing it to far.
Charge weight vs velocity was.very close to lever in my 18" 6mm arc. It seemed to pretty easily drive 105s 2550.
31.6g was 2480-2500 in my 18" grendel with a 123 eld. It shot quite well around 2300. I haven't loaded the brass many times to see if the primer pockets hold up or if I am pushing it to far.
I loaded 5 rounds of MP580 similar to IMR4451 to get some sort of baseline on where the velocity numbers
fall. Rifle is a 6.5 creed barrel is a Kreiger with over 2800 rounds through it and although it has slowed down
it still shoots fantastic.
Tested 40.0 41.0 41.5 42.0 and 42.5 grains of MP580, 140 ELD, Lapua case and CCI 450.
All 5 rounds with different charges went into a .401 group with 4 grouping into .195.
The velocity numbers that my labradar recorded are gone due to some issue with a USB to SD card adapter
that corrupted the file system on the card but I remember the velocity of the 42.5 charge, it was 2764 FPS and
no signs of high pressure were encountered. Annoying loosing the data.
fall. Rifle is a 6.5 creed barrel is a Kreiger with over 2800 rounds through it and although it has slowed down
it still shoots fantastic.
Tested 40.0 41.0 41.5 42.0 and 42.5 grains of MP580, 140 ELD, Lapua case and CCI 450.
All 5 rounds with different charges went into a .401 group with 4 grouping into .195.
The velocity numbers that my labradar recorded are gone due to some issue with a USB to SD card adapter
that corrupted the file system on the card but I remember the velocity of the 42.5 charge, it was 2764 FPS and
no signs of high pressure were encountered. Annoying loosing the data.
Where are you all buying your powder? I’ve been thinking of getting some of the Shooters World 50 BMG Smokeless Powder. Some sites have it really cheap, like $180 per 8 pounds. For example:
I don’t want to get bit by a hoax site.
Thanks.
Shooters World 50 BMG Smokeless Powder 8 Lb By Lovex
Product Overview We are proud to offer Shooters World 50 BMG Smokeless Powder in 8 lbs canisters. 50 BMG is a medium-slow burning, high density, double base, ball propellant most suitable for .50 Browning cartridge. In addition to nitrocellulose double base powders contain also nitroglycerin (8...
midwestreloads.com
I don’t want to get bit by a hoax site.
Thanks.
That is a scam site. You can tell because it only takes zelle, cashapp, crypto as payment methods.Where are you all buying your powder? I’ve been thinking of getting some of the Shooters World 50 BMG Smokeless Powder. Some sites have it really cheap, like $180 per 8 pounds. For example:
Shooters World 50 BMG Smokeless Powder 8 Lb By Lovex
Product Overview We are proud to offer Shooters World 50 BMG Smokeless Powder in 8 lbs canisters. 50 BMG is a medium-slow burning, high density, double base, ball propellant most suitable for .50 Browning cartridge. In addition to nitrocellulose double base powders contain also nitroglycerin (8...midwestreloads.com
I don’t want to get bit by a hoax site.
Thanks.
Midwest Powders is a "house brand" of sorts for americanreloading.com made up of demil and repackaged bulk commerical powder. You will only see it on their site.
^^^^^^ That has got to be a SCAM site. They list having 689 8# jugs of IMR 8208 XBR for $240.00 Ea. I think you need to run away.
I bought an eight pound jug of MP-665 and a jug of MP-667 , looking at the load data for 300WM the charge weight looks really close to 4831. Am I safe to assume I could apply the same logic to charge weights for 7mmRM?
I rarely if ever post on any form because I can usually find an answer using the search function but I came up empty handed on this one.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
I rarely if ever post on any form because I can usually find an answer using the search function but I came up empty handed on this one.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
You will be in uncharted territory for the 7MM Mag. You can test it, but start really low @ 4831 data and go up from there. Use a chronograph to see where you are at in velocity and keep good notes. If you're careful, you won't hurt yourself or your Rifle.
Some years ago, I bought a bunch of WC852 surplus ball powder that was used for the M1 Garand and used it for some M-2 ball equivalent ammo. It has a burn speed around H-380. I tested it in the 270 Win. using H-380 data and got good results by starting low and working up. It was useable in the 270.
About 5 years ago, I had some of the IMR 4451 Enderon powder that has been discontinued. I wanted to use it in the 270 Win. with the Barnes 110 TTSX. There was no loading data available at all for that bullet weight. I started low and finally arrived at a load of 58.0 Grains @ 3250 FPS with no pressure signs. It shoots 1 MOA out to 300 yards and it is my go to Deer / Antelope load. A very good load from uncharted territory.
Thank you, I will start with the lowest charge recommended and work up from there. The Midwest Powder is a ball powder and 4831 isn’t so seeing a virtually identical charge weight caused me to reach out for some “spiritual guidance “. Thanks again.
Just drop down 15-20% and load 1rd reach going up in 0.5gr increments to where you believe top end is..
Go shoot 1rd at a time over your chrono going up until you either a) hit pressure or b) reach your velocity goal
This is what I do with MP powders that I have no previous data on....
Looking at Americans MP-665 powder they have a chart there and its right next to Winchester Supreme 780 and IMR 4955.. Those are going to be better comparisons to this powder than H4831 which is farther down their chart. MP-640 which is a short cut stick would be much closer to H4831
It does but only for the caliber they are advertising it as... His MP665 was advertised for 300 Win Mag and has load data for a 175 BTHP in 300 Win Mag. Hes asking for help with load data for 7mm Rem Mag which they dont give you...
I have been considering purchasing some powder for the 3 oh hate , both a bolt action and semi auto platform. Any recommendations on which American reloading powders to consider in this endeavor?
None that they have available right now....
And unless they run some INSANE sale on a tried and proven MP powder for your caliber/use case, just get normal Hodgdon or similar powder. The days of insane smoking cheap MP powder deals have been over for a while... And with getting some jugs of mixed powders, just not worth the money IMHO...
If they go back to offering 16lbs for $150 or less of H335 or BLC2 equivalent for my 556 plinking ammo on my progressives, I may go back to buying them..
Just my $0.02
Thats not what i was refering to. For example my mp501 says use AA2520 data to start. I see for 665 they just put it on a burn rate chart on the American Reloading websight.
They just changed this recently. They no longer say "use RL26 loading data" etc. Now they state a cartridge such as "for 223" and have a burn rate chart but don't say what data to use, which is interesting if your powder is between two known powders.
Since the last jug I bought had "similar to AA2230" on the label and webpage, but now they have a basic starting load. Maybe they realized the powders really didn't match up in similarity? Or maybe AA powders sent a letter to refrain from using or claiming AA powders are similar.
They actually do give you a starting charge, its listed right under the price for the caliber they are advertising
I would love to see powder for that kind of price but I think we would see gas at 0.99 cents a gallon first, meaning it will probably never happen. The printing presses have been running way too long and way too fast de-valuing the American dollar. I got them for $135.00/ eight pound jug and I can’t find any eight pound jugs for less than $300.00. I know “go be poor somewhere else “.
I would love to see powder for that kind of price but I think we would see gas at 0.99 cents a gallon first, meaning it will probably never happen. The printing presses have been running way too long and way too fast de-valuing the American dollar. I got them for $135.00/ eight pound jug and I can’t find any eight pound jugs for less than $300.00. I know “go be poor somewhere else “.
I have bought tons of 16lb orders of MP Powder WC846 and WC842 from American for many many years for $120 and $130 pre COVID.
I paid even less for 32lb lots.
The prices now aren't worth buying that powder.
But do they list what "known" powder's data you use? For instance, if they list a load for 300wm but you're not loading it for 300wm - in the picture above if you bought MP655 do you use data for n560 or IMR 4955 for a cartridge other than the 1 load they listed?
You pick the closest, drop down 20% and load 1rd each in 0.5gr increments until you find what your looking for
This is pull down powder not retail known and consistent powder. You've always had to do your due diligence with this stuff.
Yes, but before the recent change they told you what powder it was closest to. On the webpage it would say 'use Superformance data'. Now it just gives one load for one cartridge. Its a small difference, but in my example above if the MP655 is right between N560 and IMR4955, how do you determine which one is "closest" (to use your term)? I know this isn't a huge deal and I've been doing this long enough to get 'there' from 'here', but its a change.
You compare max powder charge on either side of the comparable on the list and choose the lower max charge weight. This keeps you in the safer side of things.
Lets say max for your cartridge with N560 is 45.4gr of powder and IMR4955 max charge is 43gr. Start using the IMR4955 data since it has a lower max charge weight. Use a simulator like GRT to create a velocity and pressure profile for both powders and print it out. Chronograph the actual load starting with the lower charge weights and see which profile it matches closely to with the least amount of pressure curve tweaking.
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Let me be the first to tell you, from someone that's bought a TON of MW powders from American for 10yr+ that the "Similar too" rarely ever lined up in my actual testing.
Thats why I used the drop way down and test up in 0.5gr increments until I found pressure with every new batch/jug of MW powder I bought. Regardless of any data American provided.
As a new customer of American Reloading components, I think their data is conservative and may or may not match a commercially available powder. For example, I had purchased some MP-610 (pull down Staball 6.5?) which per their data should yield 2700 fps from 43 gr with a 130 gr bullet in 6.5 Creed. What 130 gr bullet that is, no one knows. My subsequent brief testing with a few ladders was able to easily get 2650 out of some 140 SST's, and 2750+ with 130 TGK's, all while not exceeding their load max. All of the loads were very mild and nowhere the "Snipers Hide" max loads if you catch my drift.
To utilize these a chronograph and good understanding of load workup is a must.
As much as it would be great to have a thread with reliable load data for these, there is too much variation for this to be reliable or trustworthy between lots and various powder designations.
To utilize these a chronograph and good understanding of load workup is a must.
As much as it would be great to have a thread with reliable load data for these, there is too much variation for this to be reliable or trustworthy between lots and various powder designations.
Here's another thread with some discussion and a very detailed spreadsheet for some of the earlier MP powders.
Maybe not an "adventure" but a new route.
When I emailed AR about the difference between the 424-1 previously bought and the current 424-4 powder sold, they said it was a different "lot" of the same powder.
Trust, but verify
So treat it like a new lot of BLC-2 or AA2230 for example, drop a half grain of your known load and work back up.
I dont believe that for a second. I threw in the towel on these when prices damn near close to retail powders and their similar too powders were nothing like the real thing.
For example, their similar to IMR 4451 is a 3 different color and size stick and ball powder blend....
This is demilled rounds pull down powder on most of what you get feom them today. So all kinds of shit in it.
The stuff I used to get from them was milsurp powder.
I don't think each jug is. But each lot probably is. I did get a jug of a second lot of MP610 so I may do a head to head comparison and see if there is any difference. That being said I had bought 4 jugs of the original lot I got of MP610 so I would hope that these are the same between them.
Of note the appearance of MP610 is a dense, uniform ball powder of slightly larger/flattened powder grains. It looked very similar to 2000-MR, as I didn't have any Staball 6.5 (what it reportedly is) to directly compare. This appearance is shared by other later generation energy dense/reduced fouling ball powders, compared to the really fine grains of stuff like H335. The burn rate can't be too far off though given the charges and velocities achieved.
I think if you are going to use them, should probably buy a large quantity of the same powder and lot to minimize having to redo load workup again and again.
