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Rifle Scopes Leveling a scope...

3

350ss

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Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2011
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Being a noob I'm sure this has been covered somewhere but I couldn't find anything after doing a search... I'm currently in the process of mounting a new scope to a DPMS SASS. The scope is in a Leupold Mark 4 mount. First thing, is that is seems to me that my Harris bi-pod isn't level from the beginning. It is mounted on the swivel stud but looks like the right leg sags just a little bit, maybe a quarter of an inch. I was wondering if this is a common thing or should I take the bi-pod back and get a new one? Also, how can you ever actually tell if the bi-pod will be level and even? Right now I am using a bullet level off of the front flat top gas block. I know this could be out of level as well but figured it's probely level from the factory. I have also checked with the level on the flat top revceiver as well and they are both reading the same. So, assuming the bi-pod was level and the gun sits level, how do you go about finding the exactly true on the scope? The scope has a bubble level on it but I think it may be off just a little bit as well. I have been using the level off of the adjustment knobs and was wondering if this was an accurrent or proper way to check? My plan was to level it that away and then re-set the bubble level so that they are both true. Can you ever mount and level a scope with just the upper by itself or should it always be mounted to the rifle in the manner it will most likely be sitting for shooting? Last thing, I seem to have some pretty good eyes especially when it comes to shapes and things being even and parralel so I was wondering if there are ever opticial illusions that are created when looking through the scope and it looking like the cross hairs aren't exactly perpindicular to the top of the receiver? Thanks a head of time for the input and responses to this little book! Thanks

Chris
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

Hi Chris,
I'm not sure if this will help but this is how I mount a scope.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lQgXPA4A2J0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Mike @ CST
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

Thanks for the video. That definetly helps but I'm still concerned about the bi-pod itself. I took it off of the rifle and when I put a level across it, it seems as thought the right leg is about an 1/8 shorter than the right... Still wondering if that's common or if it really even matters later down the road... Right now I have the rifle resting on the counter off of the magwell and it is completely level going off of the gas block so I think I'm going to level the scope in that position. Just thinking once the bi-pod goes on it will be out of level again though. Suppose you can just adjust the scope to compensate for that? Is that why you used the lines on the bubble as a hard line? Thanks
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 350ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the video. That definetly helps but I'm still concerned about the bi-pod itself. I took it off of the rifle and when I put a level across it, it seems as thought the right leg is about an 1/8 shorter than the right... Still wondering if that's common or if it really even matters later down the road... </div></div>

You'll need a bipod that swivels like the Harris "S" series. I wouldn't expect the rigid ones to be perfectly level.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 350ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">Being a noob I'm sure this has been covered somewhere but I couldn't find anything after doing a search... </span>I'm currently in the process of mounting a new scope to a DPMS SASS. The scope is in a Leupold Mark 4 mount. First thing, is that is seems to me that my Harris bi-pod isn't level from the beginning. It is mounted on the swivel stud but looks like the right leg sags just a little bit, maybe a quarter of an inch. I was wondering if this is a common thing or should I take the bi-pod back and get a new one? Also, how can you ever actually tell if the bi-pod will be level and even? Right now I am using a bullet level off of the front flat top gas block. I know this could be out of level as well but figured it's probely level from the factory. I have also checked with the level on the flat top revceiver as well and they are both reading the same. So, assuming the bi-pod was level and the gun sits level, how do you go about finding the exactly true on the scope? The scope has a bubble level on it but I think it may be off just a little bit as well. I have been using the level off of the adjustment knobs and was wondering if this was an accurrent or proper way to check? My plan was to level it that away and then re-set the bubble level so that they are both true. Can you ever mount and level a scope with just the upper by itself or should it always be mounted to the rifle in the manner it will most likely be sitting for shooting? Last thing, I seem to have some pretty good eyes especially when it comes to shapes and things being even and parralel so I was wondering if there are ever opticial illusions that are created when looking through the scope and it looking like the cross hairs aren't exactly perpindicular to the top of the receiver? Thanks a head of time for the input and responses to this little book! Thanks

Chris </div></div>

I don't know how hard you looked but you're right, it has been covered. Just gimme a second and I'll Google it for you... Click Here for a 3 page thread on how to level scopes.

Not sure what your bipod issue is but if you level the rifle, then mount your scope, use a set of feeler gauges to level out the scope on your rifle.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

I believe I have figured it out. I thought about getting a swivel bi-pod but didn't want to wait and order one so I just got the only one they had at the store. Anyways, after a closer inspection today it seems as though the free float tube has been over tightened by about an 1/8 of an inch or so. Maybe a little bit more... Anyone ever had this be an issue? With the gun standing upright you can definetly see it's not in the center and that is causing the rifle to be un-level... Any suggestions? Not sure whether to just choke up the money for a quad rail or try to send it back to DPMS and have them fix it... Thanks for all the info. Here are some pics to help:
ws30n9.jpg


11lr4mb.jpg


2lw65cl.jpg
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

could fix that by taking out the stud, slotting the hole, and then putting a nut on the back side... kind of a cheap fix, or try backing off the free float tube, but if your tube is like mine on my AR-15, if it aint super tight it will and has loosened up during shooting...
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nfoley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Feeler gauges work for me, not had any probs with doing it that way. </div></div>

A BIG +1 on that... By far the quickest and easiest, most fool-proof method.

DK
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: z71rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nfoley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Feeler gauges work for me, not had any probs with doing it that way. </div></div>

A BIG +1 on that... By far the quickest and easiest, most fool-proof method.

DK </div></div>+2 I've tried many other methods, and if you have a one piece base, this is by far the best way to go imo. That said, my main rifle has a 2 piece base so this is a no go for me. I've almost thought about switching the base just so it was easier to level the scopes since I have been changing them fairly often.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

I've succesfully used both feeler gages and the plum bob string method. Not sure which is more accurate. The plum bob method does require you level the rifle with an accurate level bubble. This can be problematic if your level bubble is out of level or their is no place to place a level bubble on the rifle.

6.5x47
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

Finally got it all straightened out... Was able to get a hold of a strap wrench and take the free float tube off. Slapped some lock tite on it and back she went. Had the bi-pod on there when I was done and leveled the whole gun and let it setup over night. Good as new! My only worry was having it be too loose once I backed it off but it was like an 1/8 and you couldn't tell any different. Amazing how much difference that makes though! Thanks for all the input, definetly going to have to try the feeler gauges next time!
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 350ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being a noob I'm sure this has been covered somewhere but I couldn't find anything after doing a search... I'm currently in the process of mounting a new scope to a DPMS SASS. The scope is in a Leupold Mark 4 mount. First thing, is that is seems to me that my Harris bi-pod isn't level from the beginning. It is mounted on the swivel stud but looks like the right leg sags just a little bit, maybe a quarter of an inch. I was wondering if this is a common thing or should I take the bi-pod back and get a new one? Also, how can you ever actually tell if the bi-pod will be level and even? Right now I am using a bullet level off of the front flat top gas block. I know this could be out of level as well but figured it's probely level from the factory. I have also checked with the level on the flat top revceiver as well and they are both reading the same. So, assuming the bi-pod was level and the gun sits level, how do you go about finding the exactly true on the scope? The scope has a bubble level on it but I think it may be off just a little bit as well. I have been using the level off of the adjustment knobs and was wondering if this was an accurrent or proper way to check? My plan was to level it that away and then re-set the bubble level so that they are both true. Can you ever mount and level a scope with just the upper by itself or should it always be mounted to the rifle in the manner it will most likely be sitting for shooting? Last thing, I seem to have some pretty good eyes especially when it comes to shapes and things being even and parralel so I was wondering if there are ever opticial illusions that are created when looking through the scope and it looking like the cross hairs aren't exactly perpindicular to the top of the receiver? Thanks a head of time for the input and responses to this little book! Thanks

Chris </div></div> Yes a condition of the eyes , stigmatism can cause you to not see verticle as verticle in the real world.
So with such a condition you could line up the scope cross hair with the plumb bob line but you are not seeing the line in a true verticle plane . If you then level the gun and then place a level on the scope turret cap you may see that the scope is infact not verticle at all . Some eyes are worse than others. So if you then make the scope verticle with a level the cross hair may look out of verticle to you but is infact verticle. One way to check is look into other peoples scopes and if you regularly think their cross hair is not verticle it may infact be your eyes not their scope.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

Feeler gauges are fine to see if you are tightening your rings equally, but they can't level a rifle/scope. It's crucial to get the reticle aligned vertically. A plumb and string give you true vert., the leveling device from Brownell's levels your rifle. Made by One Hole Groups, works well, and is potentially more accurate the greater the distance between the line of sight and the bore axis. Perfect for tall AR mounts. It was around $30, money well spent. Get's you VERY close to level quickly. Saves a ton of ammo before box checking. Works for me every time.

Hang weight.
Level rifle with device.
Check reticle for true vert. with plumb line.
Tighten rings, using feelers.
Check plumb again, torque to specs.
DSC_0018-1.jpg

 
Re: Leveling a scope...

997/2 Man,

Can you please obtain a part # on that level from Brownells?

Found it! Part # 289-100-000

Now, the instructions don't make sense to me. Please, either explain or post pics of how it works? Preferably both.

6.5x47
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

A basic string level and plumb bob are all you need. This will also eliminate any issues you think you may have with your bipod.

Hang your plumb bob somewhere outside so that you can get a decent distance away from it so that you can focus on the string.

Set up your rifle with the ring saddles mounted. If you're using a tapered 1 piece base, center the string level on the base and flush up against the forward side of the rear ring saddle. Shim underneath whichever bipod leg is required to center the bubble in the indices (you should have marked the eye relief of the scope previously).

Place your scope in the ring saddles, attach the ring tops and slighly secure. With your scope focused on the plumb bob string, rotate it until such time the vertical cross hair and the string are parallel.

Tighten the upper scope rings making sure as you do so that the vertical cross hair has not moved. Secure to specified torque settings.

If all other things are correct, ie, receiver surfaces, ring surfaces, etc. you now have a properly aligned scope.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The link:

http://www.snipershide.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=25

Pictures and everything...
nfmount07.jpg

nfmount08.jpg

nfmount09.jpg

nfmount10.jpg
</div></div>

lock stock only way to go.i use a loose set of feeler gauges and a surface ground block. and i do it on a counter at a window. i watch the daylight in the crack "between feeler gauges and erector box" as i tighten it dn, work the daylight out evenly and remove feeler, repeat.if you remove the middle feeler stock it isnt as hard to slide em out and start the next work down.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

6.5 it's easy. Place the tool on your rifle, the bottom v sits on your hand guard or barrel, the second v rests upon the objective. There is a small set screw that you can tighten after it's on the rifle. Look at the fluid level, center the bubble, now look through the scope at your plumb line, rotate scope in rings/mount, the line gives you vert.
If the bubble is centered and your crosshairs line up, you're gtg.

A string bubble level does the same thing, I've seen people put small levels on the scope caps.

Level rifle
Align vert using plumb

That's it, 5 minutes tops.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

I've dicked around with the bubbles and strings and levels for years.
I started using the feeler gauge method a while back, and I'm done with all the other stuff.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've dicked around with the bubbles and strings and levels for years.
I started using the feeler gauge method a while back, and I'm done with all the other stuff. </div></div>

Once you use the feeler gauges and get comfortable with their use - you will never go back.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

What if the bottom of the scope structure is not perpendicular to the vertical stadia?

And, first of all, how have you determined these two things? :

1: How have you determined that the receiver group/bore/and scope base assembly is in coaxial alignment?

All a feeler gauge can tell you is a relational position from one side of the 2 comparative objects. If you have a tripod that's 2 degrees off, all you will do is replicate that error.

What we're dealing with here is gravity, not physical measurements.

You can take a rifle and scope, put it on a bipod, tilt it off 30 degrees, put some feeler gauges underneath it and "align" it to the bore. But when you throw that 30 degrees back into the real world, things change.

The rifle receiver and scope base/saddles have to be the primary datum planes.

HELL!!! I forgot #2 !!!
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

I'm familiar with the string/plumb bob method and I don't see how it guarantees anything. Using it assumes several things, as do all the other methods I am aware of....except for the "guess/check" method....more on it later.

The double-V block is a nice idea, and the one with the most merit, but again, it depends on and assumes several other things to work properly. When you buy one, that is you saying don't trust the manufacturer of a ($1500+ in many cases) scope to have built/assembled it square.... But you think the $30 Vblock system WAS manufactured totally square? For the V block to honestly work as intended, there must be ZERO slop/play in the slider, completely disallowing the big V that sits on the objective from rotating in relation to the small V that sits on the barrel. Also, it assumes the slot centerline is DEAD NUTS true/colinear to the apex of the Vs. And the Vs must be absolutely symmetrical. And, the bubble level must be absolutely perpendicular to that slot/V centerline.... All for $30? Hmmmmm.... Not sure about that.

Additionally, if your scope base screwholes are not absolutely drilled inline with the bore, and vertically position above the bore, there will be inaccuracies.

The fact is that without a CMM, you are going to have to make some assumptions based on SOMETHING somebody manufactured. If you're going to assume that, you might as well just assume the bottom of the turret housing is square/true to the reticle and the pic rail is true to the receiver....and just use the feeler gauge method.

The guess/check method:

No matter what initial leveling method you use, a pic rail bubble level, a carpenters level, a 3 foot tall piece of paper 25 yards away and 5 cartridges will quickly show you if your reticle is canted.

Do you best to level the scope and boresight it. Set up the 3' tall paper 25-50 yards away. Use your 3' long carpenters level (or better yet, a plumb bob....because otherwise we are trusting the level manufacturer made a perfect level!) to draw a vertical line all the way down the paper. Make a hash mark across the vertical line towards the bottom of the vertical line. Twist your elevation turret all the way down and take a shot at the intersection of the vertical/horizontal line on your paper. Go 25 MOA up and shoot at the same point of aim. Go up 25 MOA more and shoot again. A "best fit line" through your string of bullet holes better be parallel to the vertical line you drew....or else you're canted. Adjust scope mounting and try again.

Yes, this is a hassle, but it is the ONLY way to be sure. None of the "tools" on the market will absolutely get your scope mounted 100% correctly other than the guess/check method.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What if the bottom of the scope structure is not perpendicular to the vertical stadia?

And, first of all, how have you determined these two things? :

1: How have you determined that the receiver group/bore/and scope base assembly is in coaxial alignment?

All a feeler gauge can tell you is a relational position from one side of the 2 comparative objects. If you have a tripod that's 2 degrees off, all you will do is
replicate that error.

What we're dealing with here is gravity, not physical measurements.

You can take a rifle and scope, put it on a bipod, tilt it off 30 degrees, put some feeler gauges underneath it and "align" it to the bore. But when you throw that 30 degrees back into the real world, things change.

The rifle receiver and scope base/saddles have to be the primary datum planes.

HELL!!! I forgot #2 !!! </div></div>



spade im gonna put my trust in schmidt bender and surgeons surfaces and i know a few other people who do to. you take away all the variables within your control. franks feeler gauge technique.does this. whats your plan?
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

OK, first off, I don't use the feeler gauges to make the reticle vertical. That has nothing to do with it. What I am doing, is trying to make sure that the erector is vertical. That way the scope tracks true through the vertical axis.

The reticle itself could be at a 45 degree angle and track correctly. If the reticle is canted in the scope, by using the plumb method, you are mechanically imparting what amounts to drift at distance to your shot. This is NOT what I want to have happen.

DK
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

You want your erector to track perfectly vertical through it's full range of adjustment... NOT off to one side or the other.

DK
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 997/2man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Feeler gauges are fine to see if you are tightening your rings equally, but they can't level a rifle/scope. It's crucial to get the reticle aligned vertically. A plumb and string give you true vert., the leveling device from Brownell's levels your rifle. Made by One Hole Groups, works well, and is potentially more accurate the greater the distance between the line of sight and the bore axis. Perfect for tall AR mounts. It was around $30, money well spent. Get's you VERY close to level quickly. Saves a ton of ammo before box checking. Works for me every time.

Hang weight.
Level rifle with device.
Check reticle for true vert. with plumb line.
Tighten rings, using feelers.
Check plumb again, torque to specs.
DSC_0018-1.jpg

</div></div>

I use this method as well, and find it a lot more precise than feeler gauges. However, it works better with bolt guns where you can get the device into the barrel rather than a rail, as the rail may not be exactly aligned.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: z71rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, first off, I don't use the feeler gauges to make the reticle vertical. That has nothing to do with it. What I am doing, is trying to make sure that the erector is vertical. That way the scope tracks true through the vertical axis.

The reticle itself could be at a 45 degree angle and track correctly. If the reticle is canted in the scope, by using the plumb method, you are mechanically imparting what amounts to drift at distance to your shot. This is NOT what I want to have happen.

DK </div></div>

ianpointing2k.jpg
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

The steps below assume the scope and rings have been positioned for proper eye relief, but the rings are not tighten around the scope yet.

You will need either a plumb bob or a known vertical edge (like a door jam)

1. With the weight and string hung (plumb bob) place the rifle on a table so the butt of the stock is about 8-10 feet away from the plumb bob. (the further away the more accurate and easier it is)

2. Place a bubble on the scope rail and verify the rifle is level.

3. Turn the lights off and shine the flashlight through the objective so it projects the crosshair onto the wall.

4. Rotate the scope until the crosshair is perfectly parallel with the plumb bob.

5. Secure and torque the rings; verify parallelism.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

Has anyone had any luck with the Wheeler kit that has the scope knob and action level?
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nexusfire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone had any luck with the Wheeler kit that has the scope knob and action level? </div></div>

I've used the Wheeler kit and it works well regardless of what some may say. But not for awhile as I have been using the feeler guage method mostly. Last rifle I used the Wheeler kit was an 03A3 that had Leupold standard rings and mount to fit that gun. It worked well. Also, Inovative Technologies has come out with a magnetic leveler thats supposed to be superior to the Wheeler. Not sure though. It's the fourth item down on the list here...

http://larrywillis.com/
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

I'm gonna dissent slightly here as this topic, the use of levels is coming up more and more.

The common wisdom is, as stated above, level the rifle and then level the scope to the leveled rifle. Myself and recently others believe this is where the problem lies for many people.

I have discussed where I see very little benefit using a level. In fact using one I feel more comfortable without until I noticed something. Not every rifle is naturally held level in your shoulder. What I have been doing is leveling my scope to the rifle in my shoulder. This way I am consistent in my position and the scope is leveled to the ground. So regardless of my position the rifle is placed in my shoulder the same way every time. I am not trying to level me to the rifle, just leveling the scope to the fall of gravity.

There is no reason to level the rifle. Any cant introduced is because of the scope as it sits over the bore, not because of the position of the barrel. Case in point the Tubb Rifles that are not meant to be held straight up and down. That is leveled to your position, and then the ground. It's not leveled vertical first.

Scope level is important, the rifle should be addressed consistently, which may not necessarily be perfectly straight up and down. So, find a comfortable position, then level the scope to the fall of gravity using a plumb line. This will help with consistency, and when shooting on uneven terrain, as you'll feel it, as well as see it.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

Lowlight, that only works if you are a cosistent shooter who addresses the rifle the same way each time. Most people are not that experienced. And as positions change, so does rifle cant. If you shoot mostly prone, off a bipod, then leveling the reticle to the plane of the action rails works just fine and feels less awkward to the shooter.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

I don't disagree but as been stated often enough, consistency is king, and taking steps to develop and maintain consistency might be smarter in the long run. Especially if you find you have leveled the rifle then leveled the scope and each time you address the rifle, you see when checking level you're slightly off. That might be a clue you're not consistent because youre trying to move you to the rifle instead of moving the rifle to you.

Simply food for thought,
wink.gif
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's why they make butt plates to adjust to the shooter's individual cant requirement.</div></div>

Right, but how many are using one?

If you're not, then common sense would say to set the rifle to the shooter not the ground.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ballistic308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The steps below assume the scope and rings have been positioned for proper eye relief, but the rings are not tighten around the scope yet.

You will need either a plumb bob or a known vertical edge (like a door jam)

1. With the weight and string hung (plumb bob) place the rifle on a table so the butt of the stock is about 8-10 feet away from the plumb bob. (the further away the more accurate and easier it is)

2. Place a bubble on the scope rail and verify the rifle is level.

3. Turn the lights off and shine the flashlight through the objective so it projects the crosshair onto the wall.

4. Rotate the scope until the crosshair is perfectly parallel with the plumb bob.

5. Secure and torque the rings; verify parallelism. </div></div>
Some photos of what I've described. Of course this thread is nearly all usless if a anti-cant device isn't being used....
album.ashx


album.ashx
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes because nobody successfully used a scope until the anti cant device was invented. </div></div>
Anti-cant came first before optics? What was the application prior to mounting optics on a firearm? What did Quigly use.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

VKC brings up a good point in that the rail and barrel/bore axis my not be aligned.
That would lead to some interesting range time.

It may not be accurate enough for dedicated bench and F-1 shooters, works well for me, and $30+ is peanuts for anything shooting related today. Some days I'm lucky to shoot minute of barn for the 1st few groups.

Cool beans using light through objective, does parallax or moving light in relation to the objective move reticle? New one on me.

I wouldn't use a door jamb or frame or even the corner of a wall, etc. May not be truly vert. Same with telephone poles or fence posts.

The feelers make sure my caps or rings are even, do a perfect job, the gaps are equal, looks gtg.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 997/2man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Cool beans using light through objective, does parallax or moving light in relation to the objective move reticle? New one on me...</div></div>
I wouldn't recommend moving the light as if you were performing at a disco
grin.gif
, it should be static to reduce variables. It's still only crosshair alignment with rotation not parallax, so it remains parallel once it's set.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

i'll stick to the feeler gauege, everything perp. to bore then , im gonna put spirit tube in pic. rail base on rifle and then im gonna keep installing ring levels. i have lock stock solid points of reference and build my shooting position to match. the rest of this is a buncha crazy stuff. this thread is gettin kinda out there. its all about solid and repeatable to me. just my opinion. keep your thoughts rollin though. i thought the flashlight thing was interesting but kinda out there.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

Ill have to try the feeler gauge thing, that looks pretty slick.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

ianpointing2k.jpg


It may be splitting hairs to some... but it works for me. Just trying to pass along the information that I use so that they can make their own educated guesses. Fair enough??

DK
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

I do fully agree with Lowlight that the leveling to the rifle is not important. However for those who have a bubble level the leveling to that is very important.

But it's also important to know that the various scope manufacturers have a tolerance for the reticlemounting 1-3 degres, so whatever perfect method you are using for mounting your scope, you better test it in real at the range afterwards.

I am using my own method for leveling scopes to the level.
Here is some pictures.
34295_465817669407_680984407_6430310_7132011_n.jpg

Here is the 10 degree key in its 10 degree slot in the mount.
The level is built into the mount so here its fairly important to get the leveling right.

Device for separate rings.
376657_10150530291294408_680984407_11675318_2110938298_n.jpg


And the above in use.
267309_10150390848579408_680984407_10612813_5880205_n.jpg


Built in level as the left eye see it.
376657_10150530291319408_680984407_11675319_1268091769_n.jpg


Regards Håkan
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm gonna dissent slightly here as this topic, the use of levels is coming up more and more.

The common wisdom is, as stated above, level the rifle and then level the scope to the leveled rifle. Myself and recently others believe this is where the problem lies for many people.

I have discussed where I see very little benefit using a level. In fact using one I feel more comfortable without until I noticed something. Not every rifle is naturally held level in your shoulder. What I have been doing is leveling my scope to the rifle in my shoulder. This way I am consistent in my position and the scope is leveled to the ground. So regardless of my position the rifle is placed in my shoulder the same way every time. I am not trying to level me to the rifle, just leveling the scope to the fall of gravity.

There is no reason to level the rifle. Any cant introduced is because of the scope as it sits over the bore, not because of the position of the barrel. Case in point the Tubb Rifles that are not meant to be held straight up and down. That is leveled to your position, and then the ground. It's not leveled vertical first.

Scope level is important, the rifle should be addressed consistently, which may not necessarily be perfectly straight up and down. So, find a comfortable position, then level the scope to the fall of gravity using a plumb line. This will help with consistency, and when shooting on uneven terrain, as you'll feel it, as well as see it. </div></div>

Respectfully disagree with you in some respects...

You are 100% correct that you should address the rifle consistently every time. However,not having the scope's longitudinal axis, and the bore's longitudinal axis laying on the same vertical plane when the reticle is truely vertical is going to skew your tracking. If I am to understand what you're saying correctly, you are stating that when you are comfortable with your rifle, the reticle is vertical/horizonal, but the rifle may be canted a bit...thus, the bore isn't directly under the scope.

I am sure you have the experience and "feel" to handle this skew, however, I contend this is unadviseable, and in fact, a handicap. I am sure you can shoot through this handicap, but for us mere mortals, I argue we are VERY well advised to do our damndest to get our reticle level when the bore and scope centerlines are directly above/below one another....then do our damndest to take our shots with the reticle level.
 
Re: Leveling a scope...

Ok, so who makes that base with the level and 10 degree tool set up, that is cool.
 
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