hey guys im 19 years old and i bought 2 stripped lowers during the black Friday sale but when i went to the gun store i found out u had to be 21 to buy a stripped lower even the man working behind the counter didn't know you had to be 21 to buy one so my plan is to put a upper and a stock on making it a rifle do you think the store can do the ffl transfer then? i like the people that work in the store i dont want any one to get in trouble they are good people from what i can tell. and the upper and stocks will be barrowed from a friends ar i don't have the money to buy the parts right now what do ya'll think or any idea's?????
Gunsmithing will this get around the atf rules legally ?
- Thread starter unluckyjohn
- Start date
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
won't work... they'd still have to be transfered as receivers... which you have to be 21 to receive.... there is no legal way to transfer them
won't work... they'd still have to be transfered as receivers... which you have to be 21 to receive.... there is no legal way to transfer them
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
only way you could would be if the shop has a type 07 FFL, then they could put them together, as it stands if the weapons are assembled while in their pocession, they are "manufacturing" a firearm by the ATF definition, so it just can't be done.
only way you could would be if the shop has a type 07 FFL, then they could put them together, as it stands if the weapons are assembled while in their pocession, they are "manufacturing" a firearm by the ATF definition, so it just can't be done.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hsss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A pistol lower(21) is registered and marked as so.
The guy at the counter needs to learn the law.</div></div>
no ANY receiver,that can be assembled into either a rifle or pistol(read AR), requires the recipient to be 21... YOU need to learn the law.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hsss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A pistol lower(21) is registered and marked as so.
The guy at the counter needs to learn the law.</div></div>
no ANY receiver,that can be assembled into either a rifle or pistol(read AR), requires the recipient to be 21... YOU need to learn the law.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
so if i took it to a gun smith with a 07 ffl i could have him put the upper and stock on and say its a rifle then transfer it??
so if i took it to a gun smith with a 07 ffl i could have him put the upper and stock on and say its a rifle then transfer it??
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
thank you very much force multiplier!!! would it matter if i don't have the springs and trigger and all in it???
thank you very much force multiplier!!! would it matter if i don't have the springs and trigger and all in it???
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
well here's my plan take the parts to make one ar15 build it let the gun smith with an 07 ffl transfer it to me strip it and take the second lower build it to and have it transferred to me or should i just have the lowers returned to the site i bought them at ??
well here's my plan take the parts to make one ar15 build it let the gun smith with an 07 ffl transfer it to me strip it and take the second lower build it to and have it transferred to me or should i just have the lowers returned to the site i bought them at ??
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
sorry i don't know the laws but i'd like to point out im learning them ... the hard way XD
sorry i don't know the laws but i'd like to point out im learning them ... the hard way XD
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
there's an old gunsmith in my town i was planning on asking to let me work with him during the summer so i can learn the trade i was gonna only do it if i can build it that way he wont charge me to much XD i got both lowers for 100 when they normally go for 160 each so i think i should still come out saving a little bit
there's an old gunsmith in my town i was planning on asking to let me work with him during the summer so i can learn the trade i was gonna only do it if i can build it that way he wont charge me to much XD i got both lowers for 100 when they normally go for 160 each so i think i should still come out saving a little bit
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
i still need to learn it i would like to get my ffl and gunsmith license for hobby purposes when i turn 21
i still need to learn it i would like to get my ffl and gunsmith license for hobby purposes when i turn 21
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and BTW... nobody feel too bad, I correct ATF agents too </div></div>
HAHAHA !
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and BTW... nobody feel too bad, I correct ATF agents too </div></div>
HAHAHA !
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
When I ordered my stripped lowers they asked me if they were going to be for rifle or pistol, I told'm rifle since an AR pistol is about as fucked up as a soccer raquet. Then when I went to the FFL to pick them up he confirmed that they were being transfered as rifles and explained to me that I could only build them as rifles. I've always been told that the receiver is the gun, all other parts are irrelavent. I don't know, but what's the difference in buying an AR receiver and a bolt action receiver? I'd think you can make a pistol out of any reciever if you really wanted to. Maybe it just never came up as an issue since I was over 21 when I bought them, idk?
When I ordered my stripped lowers they asked me if they were going to be for rifle or pistol, I told'm rifle since an AR pistol is about as fucked up as a soccer raquet. Then when I went to the FFL to pick them up he confirmed that they were being transfered as rifles and explained to me that I could only build them as rifles. I've always been told that the receiver is the gun, all other parts are irrelavent. I don't know, but what's the difference in buying an AR receiver and a bolt action receiver? I'd think you can make a pistol out of any reciever if you really wanted to. Maybe it just never came up as an issue since I was over 21 when I bought them, idk?
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
Can you guys tell me how to get around the laws that govern our gun rights??? FAIL
Can you guys tell me how to get around the laws that govern our gun rights??? FAIL
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
Instructions to question 18 clearly state:
<span style="color: #000099">Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is "A firearm other than a shotgun or rifle," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21.</span>
Instructions to question 18 clearly state:
<span style="color: #000099">Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is "A firearm other than a shotgun or rifle," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21.</span>
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
emailed patriot defense arms they said i just need a stock on it to get it transferred im gonna go see with the gun store says about that
emailed patriot defense arms they said i just need a stock on it to get it transferred im gonna go see with the gun store says about that
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
The way I see it it to either have the shop hold them until you turn 21 or return them.
Your name is on the receipt and this makes you the buyer. Your receipt show them as receivers and no amount of accessories is going to change this. Once they are returned you can go to an 07 manufacturer and ask him to buy these receivers and build rifles on them that you will buy from them once they are done. Anything else is going to be a lie on the 4473 punishable as a felony.
I can't think any dealer or gunsmith is going to risk his FFL or imprisonment for a transfer fee.
The way I see it it to either have the shop hold them until you turn 21 or return them.
Your name is on the receipt and this makes you the buyer. Your receipt show them as receivers and no amount of accessories is going to change this. Once they are returned you can go to an 07 manufacturer and ask him to buy these receivers and build rifles on them that you will buy from them once they are done. Anything else is going to be a lie on the 4473 punishable as a felony.
I can't think any dealer or gunsmith is going to risk his FFL or imprisonment for a transfer fee.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i still need to learn it i would like to get my ffl and gunsmith license for hobby purposes when i turn 21 </div></div>
Just a quick note. ATF will not give anyone an FFL for the purpose of collecting, or hobby gunsmithing. So if you do apply, make sure they know it's for business that will be for profit purpose only. BTW, you don't need an FFL to be a hobby gunsmith. If you're thinking you can get things at cost and save by having one, that's a big mistake. You will be spending a $1.00 to save 10 cents. Best of luck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i still need to learn it i would like to get my ffl and gunsmith license for hobby purposes when i turn 21 </div></div>
Just a quick note. ATF will not give anyone an FFL for the purpose of collecting, or hobby gunsmithing. So if you do apply, make sure they know it's for business that will be for profit purpose only. BTW, you don't need an FFL to be a hobby gunsmith. If you're thinking you can get things at cost and save by having one, that's a big mistake. You will be spending a $1.00 to save 10 cents. Best of luck.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
You may end up returning them to Patriot, have them install a stock, and then send again. This, of course, will cost you more $$.
If the shop has a gunsmith then you could have him build them into rifles for you but this will also cost more $$ in parts and manufacturing cost.
I’d forget the idea of borrowing parts to bring into the shop with the intent of swapping them around on the lowers. No dealer wanting to hang onto his FFL is going to let you do that right in front of him or other customers. Doing this surely gives the impression that there’s some shady chit going on.
The latest ATF rule on stripped lowers is that they cannot go to anyone under the age of 21 as they have the potential to be built into pistols (doesn’t matter if they actually will end up as handguns or not). The waiting period for pistols also applies (if you have one in TX). Lowers that WILL be built into pistols also do NOT have to be marked as “Pistol”. If anyone tells you the above is false ask them to prove it in writing. They won’t be able to do so.
If it were me? I’d ask the dealer if he would transfer them as rifles if stocks were attached. If the answer is “yes” than I would have them returned to Patriot, have them install cheap stocks and then resend. The lowers could then be transferred to you as rifles.
Hope this helps.
Oh, BTW – For the love of God, PLEASE learn proper sentence structure, capitalization and grammar. Reading your posts gives me a headache. An 19yo should already have this kind of thing mastered.
You may end up returning them to Patriot, have them install a stock, and then send again. This, of course, will cost you more $$.
If the shop has a gunsmith then you could have him build them into rifles for you but this will also cost more $$ in parts and manufacturing cost.
I’d forget the idea of borrowing parts to bring into the shop with the intent of swapping them around on the lowers. No dealer wanting to hang onto his FFL is going to let you do that right in front of him or other customers. Doing this surely gives the impression that there’s some shady chit going on.
The latest ATF rule on stripped lowers is that they cannot go to anyone under the age of 21 as they have the potential to be built into pistols (doesn’t matter if they actually will end up as handguns or not). The waiting period for pistols also applies (if you have one in TX). Lowers that WILL be built into pistols also do NOT have to be marked as “Pistol”. If anyone tells you the above is false ask them to prove it in writing. They won’t be able to do so.
If it were me? I’d ask the dealer if he would transfer them as rifles if stocks were attached. If the answer is “yes” than I would have them returned to Patriot, have them install cheap stocks and then resend. The lowers could then be transferred to you as rifles.
Hope this helps.
Oh, BTW – For the love of God, PLEASE learn proper sentence structure, capitalization and grammar. Reading your posts gives me a headache. An 19yo should already have this kind of thing mastered.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
A stock will not do it. To be a rifle or a long gun it must have a caliber designation marked on the barreled action. Even if the receiver was marked for rifle use only it is still a bare receiver and subject to receiver rules. It is not a firearm. It is an "other".
At 19 and you want a deal on a bare action you would have buy the cheapest firearm that uses the action you want and strip the parts off it, sell those off and end up with our action to build on. In the case of these cheap AR lowers once you are 21 you can buy all you want as long as they are for personal use. In question 16 you affirm you are not buying these firearms or other to resell. Again lying on a 4473 is a felony.
A stock will not do it. To be a rifle or a long gun it must have a caliber designation marked on the barreled action. Even if the receiver was marked for rifle use only it is still a bare receiver and subject to receiver rules. It is not a firearm. It is an "other".
At 19 and you want a deal on a bare action you would have buy the cheapest firearm that uses the action you want and strip the parts off it, sell those off and end up with our action to build on. In the case of these cheap AR lowers once you are 21 you can buy all you want as long as they are for personal use. In question 16 you affirm you are not buying these firearms or other to resell. Again lying on a 4473 is a felony.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
They are still at patriot. i think i'm just going to return them and save till i'm 21 witch is a year and half away.
They are still at patriot. i think i'm just going to return them and save till i'm 21 witch is a year and half away.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
that is a felony
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
that is a felony
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
force_multipier,
Can't the receiving FFL just leave leave them on his books to sell to another customer later and buy them off the OP?
Talking about adding them to inventory not a strawman purchase.
force_multipier,
Can't the receiving FFL just leave leave them on his books to sell to another customer later and buy them off the OP?
Talking about adding them to inventory not a strawman purchase.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DVC Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">force_multipier,
Can't the receiving FFL just leave leave them on his books to sell to another customer later and buy them off the OP?
Talking about adding them to inventory not a strawman purchase.</div></div>
that's an option, IF the receiving FFL is willing to buy them
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DVC Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">force_multipier,
Can't the receiving FFL just leave leave them on his books to sell to another customer later and buy them off the OP?
Talking about adding them to inventory not a strawman purchase.</div></div>
that's an option, IF the receiving FFL is willing to buy them
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
i'm the only one in my family that shoots and my mother try's to keep me as far away from guns as possible
i'm the only one in my family that shoots and my mother try's to keep me as far away from guns as possible
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
It's really simple. Instead of asking here, use your internet time to google the atf and read the laws or simply call them. They'll answer your questions and tell you what is what. That's the best thing I could tell you to do.
It's really simple. Instead of asking here, use your internet time to google the atf and read the laws or simply call them. They'll answer your questions and tell you what is what. That's the best thing I could tell you to do.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
It seems like the bottom line problem is in the use of the words "get around" in conjunctions with "ATF Rules".
Bad word selection, bad juju, right from the start.
I think that the suggestion to call ATF is exactly right. Explain the situation accurately and truthfully.
Then ask them how best to <span style="font-weight: bold">"comply" </span>with their rules.
But that's just me.
It seems like the bottom line problem is in the use of the words "get around" in conjunctions with "ATF Rules".
Bad word selection, bad juju, right from the start.
I think that the suggestion to call ATF is exactly right. Explain the situation accurately and truthfully.
Then ask them how best to <span style="font-weight: bold">"comply" </span>with their rules.
But that's just me.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
Quick Question. Does it count as a felony if they remain in the other persons possesion?
Quick Question. Does it count as a felony if they remain in the other persons possesion?
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Housel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems like the bottom line problem is in the use of the words "get around" in conjunctions with "ATF Rules".
Bad word selection, bad juju, right from the start.
I think that the suggestion to call ATF is exactly right. Explain the situation accurately and truthfully.
Then ask them how best to <span style="font-weight: bold">"comply" </span>with their rules.
But that's just me.
</div></div>
Calling them and admitting you've violated one of their sacred regulations?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Housel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems like the bottom line problem is in the use of the words "get around" in conjunctions with "ATF Rules".
Bad word selection, bad juju, right from the start.
I think that the suggestion to call ATF is exactly right. Explain the situation accurately and truthfully.
Then ask them how best to <span style="font-weight: bold">"comply" </span>with their rules.
But that's just me.
</div></div>
Calling them and admitting you've violated one of their sacred regulations?
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
That's called a "Straw Man Purchase". While the spirit of the intention for all purposes is completely innocent, you, your father, and the shop would all likely be charged with a felony.
If you keep up with the news, there's been recent traffic on this very topic regarding the whole BATF fiasco down on the border. With that in mind one can very well expect Uncle Sugar to have a very low sense of humor/tolerance to this sort of thing.
Bottom line, don't do it. It's so not worth fuggering your life up at the tender age of 19. Just put it on your bucket list and wait till your 80 years old.
There's three solutions to this dilema:
1. Wait till your 21.
2. Negotiate the transaction with an 07FFL holder. (meaning, THEY have to buy the actions, build rifles on them, sell/transfer to you.)
3. Forget about it, save your sheckels, and buy two turn key AR's off the shelf.
Good luck.
C.
How this works for the 07 FFL holder. (manufacturer's license, I have this license)
If "Bob" brings me a box of parts I am assembling HIS components into a rifle. Where those components came from is of little concern to me. -meaning he could have bought a rifle and tore it down, or ordered each part individually. The part to pay attention to here is the customer MUST be in possession of the parts upon release to me. Meaning he can't just call Jerry Stiller and have him ship it to me, have me build it, and then ship it to an FFL in his area for his 4473. He must complete the 4473 before sending the parts.
If I buy bars of steel and make a rifle from scratch OR buy an action from another manufacturer along with the related components and build a rifle for the intent of sale then I am manufacturing it. If I do this more than 40 times a year I become subject to Federal Excise tax. (HINT, have your clients buy the stuff)
How this applies to you is this:
YOU are not eligible to buy the receivers yet as you are not 21 years old. So the 07FFL holder must purchase them, assemble, and retail a finished rifle to you.
IF you buy the receivers somehow you and the dealer are potentially in violation because they sold the components illegally.
Hope this helped.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
That's called a "Straw Man Purchase". While the spirit of the intention for all purposes is completely innocent, you, your father, and the shop would all likely be charged with a felony.
If you keep up with the news, there's been recent traffic on this very topic regarding the whole BATF fiasco down on the border. With that in mind one can very well expect Uncle Sugar to have a very low sense of humor/tolerance to this sort of thing.
Bottom line, don't do it. It's so not worth fuggering your life up at the tender age of 19. Just put it on your bucket list and wait till your 80 years old.
There's three solutions to this dilema:
1. Wait till your 21.
2. Negotiate the transaction with an 07FFL holder. (meaning, THEY have to buy the actions, build rifles on them, sell/transfer to you.)
3. Forget about it, save your sheckels, and buy two turn key AR's off the shelf.
Good luck.
C.
How this works for the 07 FFL holder. (manufacturer's license, I have this license)
If "Bob" brings me a box of parts I am assembling HIS components into a rifle. Where those components came from is of little concern to me. -meaning he could have bought a rifle and tore it down, or ordered each part individually. The part to pay attention to here is the customer MUST be in possession of the parts upon release to me. Meaning he can't just call Jerry Stiller and have him ship it to me, have me build it, and then ship it to an FFL in his area for his 4473. He must complete the 4473 before sending the parts.
If I buy bars of steel and make a rifle from scratch OR buy an action from another manufacturer along with the related components and build a rifle for the intent of sale then I am manufacturing it. If I do this more than 40 times a year I become subject to Federal Excise tax. (HINT, have your clients buy the stuff)
How this applies to you is this:
YOU are not eligible to buy the receivers yet as you are not 21 years old. So the 07FFL holder must purchase them, assemble, and retail a finished rifle to you.
IF you buy the receivers somehow you and the dealer are potentially in violation because they sold the components illegally.
Hope this helped.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
that is a felony </div></div>
So how is the situation handled where a parent buys a firearm for a child? For example: Hypothetical Father buys equally hypothetical Son a .22 rifle at age 10. 8 years later, son moves out, taking said .22 with him. Is this not technically a felony? Just asking, as you seem to be in the loop...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
that is a felony </div></div>
So how is the situation handled where a parent buys a firearm for a child? For example: Hypothetical Father buys equally hypothetical Son a .22 rifle at age 10. 8 years later, son moves out, taking said .22 with him. Is this not technically a felony? Just asking, as you seem to be in the loop...
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oughtsix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
that is a felony </div></div>
So how is the situation handled where a parent buys a firearm for a child? For example: Hypothetical Father buys equally hypothetical Son a .22 rifle at age 10. 8 years later, son moves out, taking said .22 with him. Is this not technically a felony? Just asking, as you seem to be in the loop...</div></div>
a legitimate gift is allowed under the law...
what was suggested is that someone do the paperwork in order to "get around" the law, which is a straw purchase, and is a felony
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oughtsix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
that is a felony </div></div>
So how is the situation handled where a parent buys a firearm for a child? For example: Hypothetical Father buys equally hypothetical Son a .22 rifle at age 10. 8 years later, son moves out, taking said .22 with him. Is this not technically a felony? Just asking, as you seem to be in the loop...</div></div>
a legitimate gift is allowed under the law...
what was suggested is that someone do the paperwork in order to "get around" the law, which is a straw purchase, and is a felony
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oughtsix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
that is a felony </div></div>
So how is the situation handled where a parent buys a firearm for a child? For example: Hypothetical Father buys equally hypothetical Son a .22 rifle at age 10. 8 years later, son moves out, taking said .22 with him. Is this not technically a felony? Just asking, as you seem to be in the loop...</div></div>
Never mind.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oughtsix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you not have them transferred to your dad/uncle/whoever? I'm not sure if that would be possible since you purchased them...just a thought.
</div></div>
that is a felony </div></div>
So how is the situation handled where a parent buys a firearm for a child? For example: Hypothetical Father buys equally hypothetical Son a .22 rifle at age 10. 8 years later, son moves out, taking said .22 with him. Is this not technically a felony? Just asking, as you seem to be in the loop...</div></div>
Never mind.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
It's your constitutional right to own the muther fugger: eraese the thread then lie, cheat and steal to get it. Have one of your friends get it in their name then sell it to you for $0.01.
It's your constitutional right to own the muther fugger: eraese the thread then lie, cheat and steal to get it. Have one of your friends get it in their name then sell it to you for $0.01.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
I think that deliberately attempting to circumvent federal law will not be good for you, and I also think that trying to solicit advice on how to go about it will not be good for this site.
Everything comes to he who waits, and it looks to me like you need to wait another few years, so you can do what you want without having to be watching over your shoulder.
In this case, he who hesitates is not lost, he's legal. Ignore that, and you're asking for trouble; and I don't want to see anyone here going down that path with you.
You're already talking far too much and far too openly about committing felonies, and on a public web site at that. Any serious boxer will tell you; it's a dumb fighter who leads with his mouth...
Looking at you profile; 'marines' is <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> a hobby...
Greg
I think that deliberately attempting to circumvent federal law will not be good for you, and I also think that trying to solicit advice on how to go about it will not be good for this site.
Everything comes to he who waits, and it looks to me like you need to wait another few years, so you can do what you want without having to be watching over your shoulder.
In this case, he who hesitates is not lost, he's legal. Ignore that, and you're asking for trouble; and I don't want to see anyone here going down that path with you.
You're already talking far too much and far too openly about committing felonies, and on a public web site at that. Any serious boxer will tell you; it's a dumb fighter who leads with his mouth...
Looking at you profile; 'marines' is <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> a hobby...
Greg
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
hey greg no need to be a jerk but if that's how your gonna be yes the marines can be a hobby when it is your interest the marines happen to be my interest considering i was a poolee.
i wasn't talking about committing a felony i was talking about a legal way to get the lowers and yes their is a way for some one under 21 to get the lowers you can have the manufacture put a stock on them or you can do it your self at the gun store yes that's legal.
also if you read my post i put that i was returning the lowers and going to wait.
finally if your going to look at my hobbies and criticize them i guess ill go down to that level to family isn't a hobby if your considering the marines a non hobby and if your going to use scouting and advertise it you should follow the scouting laws kind? Courteous? friendly? i'm an eagle scout i always try to live by those things but sometimes i don't so that's why i don't advertise it. i think if you do you should live up to the standers.
yes i know you'll say stuff about my grammar and spelling. but to be honest i really don't care about that stuff its a form i'm trying to be nice but every once in a while i gotta deal with people like you =) i was just trying to get info and educate my self doesn't this site have things posted all over saying DO NOT ATTACK NEW MEMBERS i guess some of you might not consider me new but i do. considering I've only been shooting center fire guns for a couple months.
hey greg no need to be a jerk but if that's how your gonna be yes the marines can be a hobby when it is your interest the marines happen to be my interest considering i was a poolee.
i wasn't talking about committing a felony i was talking about a legal way to get the lowers and yes their is a way for some one under 21 to get the lowers you can have the manufacture put a stock on them or you can do it your self at the gun store yes that's legal.
also if you read my post i put that i was returning the lowers and going to wait.
finally if your going to look at my hobbies and criticize them i guess ill go down to that level to family isn't a hobby if your considering the marines a non hobby and if your going to use scouting and advertise it you should follow the scouting laws kind? Courteous? friendly? i'm an eagle scout i always try to live by those things but sometimes i don't so that's why i don't advertise it. i think if you do you should live up to the standers.
yes i know you'll say stuff about my grammar and spelling. but to be honest i really don't care about that stuff its a form i'm trying to be nice but every once in a while i gotta deal with people like you =) i was just trying to get info and educate my self doesn't this site have things posted all over saying DO NOT ATTACK NEW MEMBERS i guess some of you might not consider me new but i do. considering I've only been shooting center fire guns for a couple months.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or you can do it your self at the gun store yes that's legal.</div></div>
This I believe is utter BS. ATF has ruled (two years ago?) that the lower is a pistol until a 4473 describes it differently and then it better have a stock on it. You can't put a stock on it until a 4473 has designated it as such and you as a <21 can't fill the 4473 out so you are wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or you can do it your self at the gun store yes that's legal.</div></div>
This I believe is utter BS. ATF has ruled (two years ago?) that the lower is a pistol until a 4473 describes it differently and then it better have a stock on it. You can't put a stock on it until a 4473 has designated it as such and you as a <21 can't fill the 4473 out so you are wrong.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
Lighten up Francis. If you can't deal with being told that you are wrong perhaps it's best to mature a bit before you hit the keyboard again.
BTW - A title like "will this get around the atf rules?" surely implies something illegal is/will be attempted. It is wise to choose your words carefully on a public forum.
Lighten up Francis. If you can't deal with being told that you are wrong perhaps it's best to mature a bit before you hit the keyboard again.
BTW - A title like "will this get around the atf rules?" surely implies something illegal is/will be attempted. It is wise to choose your words carefully on a public forum.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DVC Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or you can do it your self at the gun store yes that's legal.</div></div>
This I believe is utter BS. ATF has ruled (two years ago?) that the lower is a pistol until a 4473 describes it differently and then it better have a stock on it. You can't put a stock on it until a 4473 has designated it as such and you as a <21 can't fill the 4473 out so you are wrong. </div></div>
its just what the people that i bought the lowers from told me
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DVC Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or you can do it your self at the gun store yes that's legal.</div></div>
This I believe is utter BS. ATF has ruled (two years ago?) that the lower is a pistol until a 4473 describes it differently and then it better have a stock on it. You can't put a stock on it until a 4473 has designated it as such and you as a <21 can't fill the 4473 out so you are wrong. </div></div>
its just what the people that i bought the lowers from told me
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DVC Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or you can do it your self at the gun store yes that's legal.</div></div>
This I believe is utter BS. ATF has ruled (two years ago?) that the lower is a pistol until a 4473 describes it differently and then it better have a stock on it. You can't put a stock on it until a 4473 has designated it as such and you as a <21 can't fill the 4473 out so you are wrong. </div></div>
its just what the people that i bought the lowers from told me </div></div>
You mean the same yahoo's that didn't know a 19yr old can't buy a AR lower from an FFL? I've been one for only a year and even I knew that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DVC Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unluckyjohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or you can do it your self at the gun store yes that's legal.</div></div>
This I believe is utter BS. ATF has ruled (two years ago?) that the lower is a pistol until a 4473 describes it differently and then it better have a stock on it. You can't put a stock on it until a 4473 has designated it as such and you as a <21 can't fill the 4473 out so you are wrong. </div></div>
its just what the people that i bought the lowers from told me </div></div>
You mean the same yahoo's that didn't know a 19yr old can't buy a AR lower from an FFL? I've been one for only a year and even I knew that.
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
no the website patriot defense arms said i could put the stock on at the store i never asked the store if i could do that because when they said that i thought about it and realized i was getting in over my head so i canceled the order and decided to wait before i try to build a rifle. and i changed the subject so it wont sound like i was trying to do something illegally i have no intention in breaking the law
no the website patriot defense arms said i could put the stock on at the store i never asked the store if i could do that because when they said that i thought about it and realized i was getting in over my head so i canceled the order and decided to wait before i try to build a rifle. and i changed the subject so it wont sound like i was trying to do something illegally i have no intention in breaking the law
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
I see, john, that you are already wise beyond my own years, and defer to your clearly superior wisdom and intellect.
Only one of us has ever been a Marine. I suspect only one of us ever will. Please note the capitalization of the term 'Marine'. It denotes honest respect. Good luck in your activities as a Marine recruit; Parris Island was made for such as yourself. They'll know just how to help you along.
As for the rest; I leave you to your own choices. May fortune take a liking to you and increase your wisdom further.
Enjoy your visit here at The 'Hide, some of us hold it in much esteem.
'Jerk'. Hmm; I'll have to look that one up, you are far to eloquent for the likes of me to question.
Greg
I see, john, that you are already wise beyond my own years, and defer to your clearly superior wisdom and intellect.
Only one of us has ever been a Marine. I suspect only one of us ever will. Please note the capitalization of the term 'Marine'. It denotes honest respect. Good luck in your activities as a Marine recruit; Parris Island was made for such as yourself. They'll know just how to help you along.
As for the rest; I leave you to your own choices. May fortune take a liking to you and increase your wisdom further.
Enjoy your visit here at The 'Hide, some of us hold it in much esteem.
'Jerk'. Hmm; I'll have to look that one up, you are far to eloquent for the likes of me to question.
Greg
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
i came here asking for advice Greg i wasn't looking to be yelled at i understand ya'll are smarter when it comes to stuff like this. i was never planning on breaking the law and i don't understand where yall are getting that information from i was looking for a way to legally get the parts for a build
and the Marine this will never happen i was discharged a month ago because of medical reasons
i came here asking for advice Greg i wasn't looking to be yelled at i understand ya'll are smarter when it comes to stuff like this. i was never planning on breaking the law and i don't understand where yall are getting that information from i was looking for a way to legally get the parts for a build
and the Marine this will never happen i was discharged a month ago because of medical reasons
Re: will this get around the atf rules?
I'm sorry John, I couldn't help myself. Good luck in school.
I'm sorry John, I couldn't help myself. Good luck in school.
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