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Range Report Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

JC Steel

JC Steel

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Oct 12, 2008
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I guess Bryan Litz turned the design in for the new Berger 7mm 195 gr EOL Hybrid bullet. And thus I am going to need a super long range 7mm rifle sooner rather than later!!!

It has an estimated averaged G1 BC of .794 and a G7 BC of .406. For those who understand such things this bullet has a G7 form factor of .850. For those who don't know what that means it means that this bullet is the slickest (in terms of velocity retention) on the planet.

Bryan has relayed that this bullet at an estimated 1.637" long will need at least a 1:8.5" twist to be stabilized.

this from the horses mouth!!
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I wonder if these new bullets would be able to be used as a Hunting Bullet? I've got a 7mm wsm coming this week, I would like to try these.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Wow, that form factor is absurd. Looks like the 7mm heavies have caught back up to the 30 cals.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Looks like I'll be keeping my long action 7 WSM around and rebarreling it with an 8.5 twist!
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

WOW!!!! now only if my gun will chamber them haha.

That is exciting news!

Any idea to when these may be released?
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Any discussion of a realistic release date?

JeffVN
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Cant wait to try these out in my 7Saum with 30" 1/8.5 tube!
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

thanks for the update

time to order a barrel

is the 8.5 going to work or should i play it safe and get an 8 twist?
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Insane! Prolly be 6 months to a year you think?
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Very interesting. 7 RM stoked with Retumbo at 2900 should be fairly good, wouldn't ya think
grin.gif
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

RobG - I bet you can get them faster than that. I had 180's going 3150 in my 7mmRM. However, they did like to poof.
wink.gif
I'm betting you could get them pretty close to 3k out of a 26-27" tube and a case stuffed with retumbo.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

^^^ Oh, for sure. I was being conservative. I run 180's at 2950 now with a fairly easy load of R22 and a 26" barrel. 3k should be easy to get and relatively easy on barrels with some Retumbo and a 28" tube.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Looks like I will have to get my 7mm SAUM + long action build rolling sooner than I thought! I have been very impressed by the combination of the 180 gr Hybrid./7mm SAUM/H4831SC.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

This would be quite the long range missile if it comes through.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I can't wait. Time to order a new Rock barrel with the proper twist.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I've had planned eventually for some time a .284Win in a AICS (viperskins) and this just reinforces my decision. That is indeed extremely impressive.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

This from an bulletin from accurateshooter.com

Finally, Hybrid bullets optimized for hunting are under development. Calibers would include .270, 7mm (.284), and .308. Specific bullet designs in development are a 7mm, 195gr EOL Hybrid Hunting, and a .270 Cal, 170gr EOL Hybrid Hunting.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Using the Miller Stability formula in Bryan's book this bullet would have a value of 1.29 in a 9 Twist and 1.45 in a 8.5 twist. So an 8.5 should be plenty as he recomends. So long as your not shooting at cold and at sea level the 1:9 should work also once you correct for it with the correction stuff in his book. The 1.29 is the gray area, but seeing as my 7mmWSM has a 28" 1:9 tube on it I may just play with them when they come out just to see as I should be ok during the summer as far as stability.

As far as them using the thinner hunting jackets I wouldn't be worried. The 105gr Hunting VLD can be ran up to 3300fps without blowing up so long as you moly coat it and use it in a barrel with shallow lands and grooves. So these bullets will probably be the same if they are using the thinner hunting jackets.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

George I am going to need a load and col for my GAP 7wsm. Let me or ROCKer know what the load data is when you get it worked out
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

They are said to be fine with 3200 FPS or lower. So I am thinking about any 7 Mag.

It this bullet was going 2950-3000 FPS, I don't see anything better for ultra long range in 338 or smaller. Even the 338 Lapua is far behind!!! Pretty impressive.

Like 150 inches of less drop at 2000 yards!! holy smokes


THe 7RM might be the ticket. I am sure 3000 would be plenty safe with some H1000 or retumbo and a longer barrel like 28 or 29 inches. Easy!!!
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">6.5???? This is the sound of your obsolescence!!! Even at 2700 fps out of a 7-08....</span> </span> </div></div>

2700 FPS out of a 7-08???

Most people are pushing the limits with a 26" tube and 162 AMAX at 2850 - more realistic max is around high 2700's to 2800. I don't think that will be even close with a 195gr projo in this chambering - RE and RL powders are worthless to me due to temp sensitivity.

I'm guessing 2500 ish and single feeding to keep it in the area of 2500fps with no longer than a 26" tube. This is a long frickin bullet.

To really see the benefits it's going to need a Mag of some flavor. I'm thinking .300 Norma Mag necked down to 7mm (Think 7-.338 NM) and just shoot the 180 hybrids for now. Run the numbers on the 180 and 3000 to nearly 3100 FPS. and then run it with a lower G1 for the 195...say .754 (just in case) instead of .794 at 2950.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I don't know anything about belted magnums or 7mms...you guys really think 2900fps is realistic with this bullet in a 7mm Rem Mag with 26" barrel?

Sea Level, standard atmosphere, G7 BC @ 2900fps with 100yd zero and 10mph crosswind via Shooter App:

500yd - 2.4mil drop, 0.6mil drift, 2340fps, 2370ft/lb energy
1000yd - 6.8mil drop, 1.3mil drift, 1845fps, 1475 ft/lb energy
1250yd - 9.7mil drop, 1.7mil drift, 1620fps, 1137 ft/lb energy
1500yd - 13.2mil drop, 2.2mil drift, 1409fps, 859 ft/lb energy
1900yd - 20.4mil drop, 3.2mil drift, 1107fps, 531 ft/lb energy
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I will surely give these a try in my long action 7saum. They may not work out of my barrel since it is a 8.7, but it is worth a shot.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

It might be pushing it a little bit to get 2900 out of a 7RM unless your barrel was throated for these - perhaps more likely in the 2800 ish FPS range max. They're spec'd a bit longer.

Ultimately we'll have to wait and see what the final product turns out to be.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">6.5???? This is the sound of your obsolescence!!! Even at 2700 fps out of a 7-08....</span> </span> </div></div>

2700 FPS out of a 7-08???

</div></div>

I am getting 2585 from a 308 and 208 A-Maxes in a 22" barrel. I think 2700 with these projectiles is quite doable with a 24" barrel.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I just need to know if these will work with my 7WSM out of a Surgeon 591 short action and when they will become available.

Would also be awesome to hear from Bryan himself as this is almost too good to be true.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCrazy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just need to know if these will work with my 7WSM out of a Surgeon 591 short action and when they will become available.

Would also be awesome to hear from Bryan himself as this is almost too good to be true. </div></div>

McC...The report is from Bryan, I believe it's on accurate shooter as well. The key here is he submitted the design specs. Could be a year or so until we see what actually shakes and tests out with real prototypes and then tooling up to mass produce if they work even nearly as modelled.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Thanks Mav..


-Goose
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

McCrazy, I shot some 200gr 7mm's from my WSM about seven years ago. I got them from Richard Graves out of Canada. My chamber was set up for the Cauterucio 176gr. The 200's were rebated boat tails and were long as shit. I would be surprised if they will work in a short action mag.

However, not wanting to change my die I seated the 200's according to the 176's depth. The 200 was seated deep in the case and shot well. For reference they impacted around 8-10 inches higher than the 176 (same load of 64gr RL22). Target was at 1000 yards.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Looks like I may end up needing to build that 7STW after all..... Those BCs are absolutely NUTS.

Good luck,
Merritt
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Any problems in getting a 28" .284 Win to push these to 2800 or so? Should be stable to a mile.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I just ordered a 7mmRM barrel for a ELR hunting rig around the 180 VLD. it is 28" with 1-9" twist. with the rumor of this cartridge giving me some serious second thoughts about changing it to a 1-8 twist. shilen does not offer a 1-8.5 so if I order a 1-8 and this bullet never makes it, will I have any problems with the 180s?
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffhogue</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just ordered a 7mmRM barrel for a ELR hunting rig around the 180 VLD. it is 28" with 1-9" twist. with the rumor of this cartridge giving me some serious second thoughts about changing it to a 1-8 twist. shilen does not offer a 1-8.5 so if I order a 1-8 and this bullet never makes it, will I have any problems with the 180s? </div></div>

You will have no issues shooting the 180s in an 8 twist barrel
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

Has berger officially released them? They're not listed on their site.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

no and it will not likely happen until mid-2013 at the earliest.

Jeffvn
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I wouldn't try and shoot these out of my 7-08. Too long and heavy. Still, if you had the horsepower it would be one heck of a projectile. If you were to going to chamber a rifle specifically for these what caliber would you choose?
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Special Delivery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7mm STW ^^^ </div></div>OK, mwroseberry mentioned that also. What's the advantage of the STW over the Ultra Mag? I don't know anything about. It seems to have a following, but I don't know why.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Special Delivery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7mm STW ^^^ </div></div>OK, mwroseberry mentioned that also. What's the advantage of the STW over the Ultra Mag? I don't know anything about. It seems to have a following, but I don't know why. </div></div>

The reason is the STW can be run in a small shank savage. This is big because in order to go with the proper shank for the cartridge you'd need to go with a Savage 338LM receiver in order to get it done with the pressures you see with the Ultra. So basically I can get a barreled action put together for about 850.00 using a standard savage that is a mag bolt face.

Good luck,
Merritt
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

when are they being released, or who must i kill to get some?
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I bet I could make them work in my 8.9 gain-twist.
wink.gif
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I'm glad I've waited on doing an ELR rig. Was gonna do a .338 Lapua AI, but running the numbers on this bullet, looks like a 7mm will be in my future. Less cost, less recoil, less elevation dialed and better wind doping. What's not to like? Only thing you're giving up is a little less kinetic energy. But at 1500 yds the difference is only 300 ft/lbs from the numbers I've run. Pretty damn good trade off if you ask me.

-SBS
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Special Delivery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7mm STW ^^^ </div></div>OK, mwroseberry mentioned that also. What's the advantage of the STW over the Ultra Mag? I don't know anything about. It seems to have a following, but I don't know why. </div></div>

The reason is the STW can be run in a small shank savage. This is big because in order to go with the proper shank for the cartridge you'd need to go with a Savage 338LM receiver in order to get it done with the pressures you see with the Ultra. So basically I can get a barreled action put together for about 850.00 using a standard savage that is a mag bolt face.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>OK. That never occurred to me.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I wish some one would come out with a factory 7mm based on the 375 ruger case. This bullet would go well with one. I wonder how a 195 would do from a 7 mashburn super?

Bb
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

I still think that the 7mm RSAUM is pretty close to the ideal case capacity without being too overbore. It will be interesting to see how fast we can push the 195s out of a RSAUM.
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

when are thay available?
 
Re: Bergers 7mm 195 Grain EOL Hybrid Bullets!!! -WOW-

There is a round based off the Ruuuuggggeeerrr (sorry I have trouble saying that) 375 case. Put out by Gunwerks 7MM LRM (Long Range Magnum). These guys have a hunting show and do shoot Berger bullets, so it could happen.
 
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