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Spotters and what to buy...

KillShot

KillShot

Major Hide Member
Full Member
Minuteman
May 25, 2010
2,362
8
Tulsa, Oklahoma
I've been looking at spotters and I have a question or two. I've looked at the Bushnell 20-60x80 Elite for $979, the U.S. Optics that would wind up being about $1300-$1400, and also the Vortex Razor HD 20-60x85 which I have found for about $700 less than the MSRP of $2000 and it's still NIB.

My question is...which would you choose? I've not been able to get behind <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> of them so I really don't know what I'm getting, which is why I'm relying on you guys. If there's one you prefer other than what I've mentioned and it isn't more than say, $1400, feel free to make a suggestion.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

Depends a little on the use and the size you're looking for. The USO is a nice size, but the best spotter of the group for pure viewing pleasure is the Vortex imho. The Vortex really does well for it's price range and has options like one eyepiece for higher magnification and clear viewing field and another with a mil reticle for spotting/ranging.

ETA...I would contact some hide vendors like SWFA, CS Tactical, etc for new pricing on that Vortex. I'd bet they'd come very close to the price you're looking at for a LNIB one.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

If I am going to pony up for a better spotter, which I haven't done yet, I think it will be the Vortex. I have the Razor HD riflescope on a POF, and i like the concept of using a milradian reticle in my spotter as well. Also, the clarity of the glass at that pricepoint hits my sweet spot.

Let me know if you would like to see my Vortex riflescope, I would be happy to meet up with you.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

You need to define what it is you will use it for the most. For shooting and ranging I really like the USO with its reticle, for looking at critters or holes in paper targets with great detail the Swaro 20-60 is awesome.

In my opinion there are some great deals on these two spotters if you are willing to buy used or demo spotters.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

I have no hands on with any of the 3 but I will say that the following:

- Weight and physical size are important considerations b/c if you're fielding it, you're packing it
- Tip top resolution is nice but not necessary, and would (in my book) be far less important than an FFP MIL dot ret (you may like MOA or IPHY)
- Good low light performance
- Durable
- Reasonable cost


Good luck
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

If this is for field work and involves movers or ranging I would get a Leupold MK4 with either TMR or Horus Retcle inside.

The FFP Reticle rocks for field work
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

This spotter will be used on the range and my NXS is MOA so I doubt the mil based spotter reticle would be of any use to me but feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong.

The Swaro is more than I'm willing to pay at $2000+ but it would be nice to have.

I have no problem buying equipment that is preowned but I don't wanna buy anything 'used' i.e. used and abused.

Ay suggestions on other makes and models?
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

USO offers moa reticles.

A far as buying used there are some secure options such as SWFA's sample list.
If you do your homework there are some very good sellers on the Hide. I just bought a used USO spotter from the Hide that looks new. I have also purchased a used demo Swarovski spotter from SWFA that was also like new ( I believe SWFA gives you a ten day inspection window).
Another consideration when buying used is customer service, and USO is among the very best ( as is Vortex ).
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have no problem buying equipment that is preowned but I don't wanna buy anything 'used' i.e. used and abused.
</div></div>

At least if it's USO you still get the lifetime warranty, so buying a used USO should help alleviate some concerns.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

I just recieved a Razor spotter from Jay at Sport optics. Do A price check with him on the Razor HD also I did the MOA reticule no chance to use it yet. Tripod is another thing the Manfrotto I bought will be returned to get one more useful from the prone position.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

If you want something for a good value, I would probably go with the vortex spotting scope. I have a few vortex optics and the glass is very clear. It seems to be up there with my nightforce scope. Although if you are looking for a spotting scope with a reticle, take a look at the Leupold Mark 4 Spotting Scope 12-40x60mm. The reviews look like it is a very good scope and I plan on purchasing one when I get the money.

http://www.snipercentral.com/leupoldmark4spot.htm

Here is some info on the Leupold scope in case you are interested.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

Like others have already said, it depends on what you want to use it for. I have an USO with reticle that matches my USO scope on rifle. The eye relief of the USO spotter takes some getting use to. I honestly didnt like it at first, but it has grown on me. If you are going to be spotting holes in paper, there are other choices. The Lupy MK IV is a very solid spotter. I have used my friends quite a bit. It is easy to get behind and easy to use as well.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have no problem buying equipment that is preowned but I don't wanna buy anything 'used' i.e. used and abused.
</div></div>

At least if it's USO you still get the lifetime warranty, so buying a used USO should help alleviate some concerns.
</div></div>

Are the USO spotters FFP? I really like the CMG-MOA reticle and overall, I really like the USO.

***EDIT***

I just found the info on the USO website and it IS a FFP reticle. Now THAT is definitely something I would like to have in a spotter since my NXS is a SFP reticle.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

check out the Swarovski CT75 20-60 zoom. great glass, telescoping style, easy to pack, lightweight and you can find them for around 1k on ebay.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slickrick0999</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like others have already said, it depends on what you want to use it for. I have an USO with reticle that matches my USO scope on rifle. The eye relief of the USO spotter takes some getting use to. I honestly didnt like it at first, but it has grown on me. If you are going to be spotting holes in paper, there are other choices. The Lupy MK IV is a very solid spotter. I have used my friends quite a bit. It is easy to get behind and easy to use as well. </div></div>

Does your friends Leupold have the TMR reticle? What is the farthest distance you have looked through it? How do you like the glass? I am really thinking about getting that one
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

I am using a Kowa TSN 821 and really like it but I nearly stole it at at Gun show or I wouldn't be using it because of the high cost but so far everyone that has looked thru it feels it's one of the best spotters they've ever looked thru. Keeping an eye our for a used KOWA is probably what I'd recommend now that I've looked thru nearly all the other brands at matches. I also have an older Unertl from the old silhouette days which is really clear but not nearly as good as a Kowa.

A friend brought over a new Konus 100mm spotter the other day and I was really impressed. That bugger was bright and clear and even when cranked up was still really nice. None of our spotters have reticles in them for calling misses but we've really not felt a need so far. Both of my scopes are fixed powers, Kowa being 27X and the Unertil at 24X. Both work very well to 1000 yards and the variables we've looked thru start to darken up if you go much above 30X. Plus your field of view is really cut down which might hinder seeing a miss if you have a really windy day or one where you are on the wrong revolution on your scope
smile.gif
and no one sees your miss.

Lots of choices out there but taking the time to look thru as many as you can at matches before you spend the bucks will be well worth the time.

Topstrap
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

Have you taken a look at the zen-ray yet? I just picked one up and love it. I even got the vortex milling reticle too. We were spotting out to 500 on steel yesterday without any issues.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

I have a Leupold 12-40 Mark 4 w/ TMR. It has to be one of the best purchases I've made IMO. It's comfortable to use and I've used it to spot up to around 950Y. Most of this has been on steel targets looking for impact splash/trace. So far it has been up to the task and has been reliable and rugged. I don't think you'd be dissapointed if you bought one.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jfernandez</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Leupold 12-40 Mark 4 w/ TMR. It has to be one of the best purchases I've made IMO. It's comfortable to use and I've used it to spot up to around 950Y. Most of this has been on steel targets looking for impact splash/trace. So far it has been up to the task and has been reliable and rugged. I don't think you'd be dissapointed if you bought one. </div></div>

Brother that has been the field spotter for me since it came on the market. Have not seen anything give it a run for the money yet.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jfernandez</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Leupold 12-40 Mark 4 w/ TMR. It has to be one of the best purchases I've made IMO. It's comfortable to use and I've used it to spot up to around 950Y. Most of this has been on steel targets looking for impact splash/trace. So far it has been up to the task and has been reliable and rugged. I don't think you'd be dissapointed if you bought one. </div></div>

Brother that has been the field spotter for me since it came on the market. Have not seen anything give it a run for the money yet.</div></div>

Mike, I believe the Mk4 is a great spotter, it's an even better spotter for the money, but there are many that blow it out of the water. And if you haven't seen a Vortex Razor lately, take a good look at them because after RO'ing a match with one recently, I was extremely impressed. For the money it's a fantastic scope, but if you can write the check, nothing compares to the Zeiss or Leica spotters, especially the Zeiss with the mil reticle.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

Mike, have not seen the new Razor Spotter. If it is like most of thier products it will be a great buy as well. I have used the Kenia side by side with best 2000.00 plus Kowa and see no real difference.

The Zeiss is fantastic but the price is plain too much. I could buy several MK4s for same price
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killerwaffles</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slickrick0999</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like others have already said, it depends on what you want to use it for. I have an USO with reticle that matches my USO scope on rifle. The eye relief of the USO spotter takes some getting use to. I honestly didnt like it at first, but it has grown on me. If you are going to be spotting holes in paper, there are other choices. The Lupy MK IV is a very solid spotter. I have used my friends quite a bit. It is easy to get behind and easy to use as well. </div></div>

Does your friends Leupold have the TMR reticle? What is the farthest distance you have looked through it? How do you like the glass? I am really thinking about getting that one </div></div>


I have a Loopy that was converted by Premiere to a Gen 2 FFP, it is what I have to initially range with for targets beyond 1k yrds. I have successfully used this on several occasions to range, read mirage, and confirm hits out to 1 mile. That said, I would not say this has tip top resolution. For the price, features and durability - it is a good value.


Good luck
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

Very happy with my razor hd I picked up from another hide member a couple of months back.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

This depends a lot on the model and eyepiece.

Zeiss and Leica spotters are not necessarily better. The Leupold Mk4 is surprisingly good for the price and size.

If you compare the Mk4 with the leica televid 77 (non apo) with variable eyepiece, the Mk4 will be slightly better. I have only looked through one zeiss 85mm diascope with variable eyepiece, and Both my Pentax and the Leupold mk4 are better by a decent margin. With a fixed eyepiece, the zeiss is probably one of the best however.

If you compare the variable eyepieces, the Pentax and Leupold are close, but the Pentax 85mm with fixed XW eyepiece hands down beats any spotting scope I have looked through. I have not looked through a Swarovski, or any of the other big name scopes with fixed eyepieces, but they should be at the level of the pentax if not better.

If you can afford it, the Leupold Mk4 with TMR is the way to go.
In my experience it doesn't sacrifice much optical clarity to the best scopes out there, I don't agree that there are a scopes that "will blow it out of the water" but Mike may have looked through combinations that are far superior to what I have had experience with.

I am leery of USO, because it looks like a riflescope modified as a spotting scope and the focus mechanism seems a little clumsy. Also USO's glass can be inconsistant. Stay away from the lower priced leupolds, they tend to have a much higher price tag for the optical quality you get.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

I am telling you, the Leupold Kenia is far better than its price. I use one for National/International Comp in F TR Class and so do several other US Team Members. I dont think a finer scope in this price range is available for anywhere near the money
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jfernandez</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Leupold 12-40 Mark 4 w/ TMR. It has to be one of the best purchases I've made IMO. It's comfortable to use and I've used it to spot up to around 950Y. Most of this has been on steel targets looking for impact splash/trace. So far it has been up to the task and has been reliable and rugged. I don't think you'd be dissapointed if you bought one. </div></div>

Brother that has been the field spotter for me since it came on the market. Have not seen anything give it a run for the money yet.</div></div>


Mike, I believe the Mk4 is a great spotter, it's an even better spotter for the money, but there are many that blow it out of the water. And if you haven't seen a Vortex Razor lately, take a good look at them because after RO'ing a match with one recently, I was extremely impressed. For the money it's a fantastic scope, but if you can write the check, nothing compares to the Zeiss or Leica spotters, especially the Zeiss with the mil reticle. </div></div>


I had a vortex razor hd and it is excellent glass but if you want a ranging reticle it cost extra and is fixed.

Traded mine + cash for a leupold with TMR and haven't looked back. Glass is maybe a touch below the vortex but you can range at any power. Also, the vortex is heavy and bulky. Having to pack it at some of these matches was awful.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

The Leupold looks nice however I'm an MOA guy so that TMR reticle or a mil-dot would be useless to me. That's why I like the USO with the MOA reticle choices. I really like the Razor but at $1600+, that's stretching the budget a little and if adding a reticle costs extra then that's out of the question entirely.

I don't shoot competitions so this may be considered as wasted money to some people but I like to use quality gear whether I'm a comp shooter or not. This will be used for punching paper and shooting steel.

Thanks for the input. Keep it comin' as I have yet to make up my mind.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

For those of you who have a spotting scope with a reticle, do you think it is really necessary for shooting 600+ yards? The spotting scopes with reticles are much more expensive and I'm curious to know if the extra cost is worth it?
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killerwaffles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those of you who have a spotting scope with a reticle, do you think it is really necessary for shooting 600+ yards? The spotting scopes with reticles are much more expensive and I'm curious to know if the extra cost is worth it? </div></div>
I think the reticle is a must for spotting and calling corrections. It makes calling corrections precise and easy. I am sure opinions vary. I have tried 2 USO spotters but as much as I am a USO fan I don't care for their spotter. It just doesn't focus fine enough or have good enough glass to use for anything but observation and I needed something that would work at the range for bullet holes also. I ended up going with a Meopta TGA 75 and reticle eyepiece. Costs a little more than the USO with both eye pieces but 100% more usable for field and range. It also packs well and gives me the option of 30x reticle or 20-60 eyepieces. Got it from Europtics and while its no Swaro it is very good and clear at a decent price for a spotter with a reticle eyepiece.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1717071
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killerwaffles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those of you who have a spotting scope with a reticle, do you think it is really necessary for shooting 600+ yards? The spotting scopes with reticles are much more expensive and I'm curious to know if the extra cost is worth it?</div></div>

I just added one to my zen-ray, and for calling corrections it is pretty tough to beat. The range I normally shoot at has a bunch of different sized steel, so it's hard to guess at what the steel sizes are to give accurate corrections. Not beats .2mil subtensions
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

If you're gonna fork out 1400 dont skip on the leupold 12-40 with a reticle. They have standard mil dot, tmr, p4 and horus reticles
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

I really wish someone (Vortex/Bushnell) would step up to the plate and offer a variable power, FFP spotter with a kick ass ranging reticle (no mildots!) in the $1000 zone.

I don't think the Leupold Mk4 is worth the money, especially when compared to the bushnell, which is $400.

Honestly, the $400 Bushnell is pretty frickin good. Biggest gripe is the lame mildot reticle. If they would tune up the glass a little, and add a reticle with .2 and .1mrad subtensions, maybe an extra-fine "L" shaped reticle in one corner, and sell for ~$800, they'd corner the market.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're gonna fork out 1400 dont skip on the leupold 12-40 with a reticle. They have standard mil dot, tmr, p4 and horus reticles</div></div>

The Leupold looks nice however I'm an MOA guy so the MIL reticles would be useless to me but thanks for the suggestions.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

Depends on how much Vicodin or Oxicodone you have on board. LOL ( Had surgery a few days ago)

Thanks for correction.

Its a great scope for range work or observation.

For field its the MK4 with Horus or TMR for me. Had a Busnell copy of the MK4 and fairly good but not near as good as the real deal
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

Well, it looks like the Razor HD takes the prize. LoL I'll have to save a little more money but I'm sure it will be worth it in the end. Thanks guys!
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ~Ace~</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold Mark 4 should not only have been on the list, but a East first place. </div></div>

For the third time, I'm an MOA guy and the Leupold only comes in MIL reticles (from what I've seen) so the Leupold would be useless for my application because I am <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> switching over to the milliradian.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ~Ace~</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold Mark 4 should not only have been on the list, but a East first place. </div></div>

For the third time, I'm an MOA guy and the Leupold only comes in MIL reticles (from what I've seen) so the Leupold would be useless for my application because I am <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> switching over to the milliradian. </div></div>

http://swfa.com/Leupold-12-40x60-Mark-4-Tactical-Spotter-P135.aspx
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cruizer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ~Ace~</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold Mark 4 should not only have been on the list, but a East first place. </div></div>

For the third time, I'm an MOA guy and the Leupold only comes in MIL reticles (from what I've seen) so the Leupold would be useless for my application because I am <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> switching over to the milliradian. </div></div>

http://swfa.com/Leupold-12-40x60-Mark-4-Tactical-Spotter-P135.aspx</div></div>

Stock # - LEU53756
Black
-------------------> <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Mil-Dot</span></span> <-----------------
Index Matched Lens Coating
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any reason you couldn't run a mil reticle and call the full mil 3.5 MOA and the half mil 1.75 MOA?

It's not technically correct, but close.</div></div>

True, but why make things more difficult than what they need to be? LoL It's really too bad that Leupold doesn't offer an MOA reticle because I'd really like to have that spotter.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have used the Kenia side by side with best 2000.00 plus Kowa and see no real difference.
</div></div>

Mike,

Maybe this is the Vic or Oxy talking too?

The Kenai looks good, has a neat design and impressive feature list, but if you are saying you can see no real difference between the 88mm Kowa Prominar and the Kenai 80mm HD, I'd like to explore that a bit.

Hope your recovery is going well.

Scott
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

The Razor HD is a much better spotting scope than the Leupold or the US Optics. I have had all three.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

Update, the eyepiece extension from "snyper" here on the hide is the way to go! makes using the scope alot better.

As far as the reticle for spotting, it does make a big difference when calling corrections.
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

I will choose between Vortex Razor HD and Zen-Ray ED2 spotting scope. They are neck to neck twins
 
Re: Spotters and what to buy...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdice</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killerwaffles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those of you who have a spotting scope with a reticle, do you think it is really necessary for shooting 600+ yards? The spotting scopes with reticles are much more expensive and I'm curious to know if the extra cost is worth it?</div></div>

I just added one to my zen-ray, and for calling corrections it is pretty tough to beat. The range I normally shoot at has a bunch of different sized steel, so it's hard to guess at what the steel sizes are to give accurate corrections. Not beats .2mil subtensions </div></div>

Just to make sure I am understanding this. The Vortex RAZOR HD 30X EYEPIECE with reticle is compatible with the Zen-Ray?
 
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