So, I've got a single shot H&R Sportster in .17HMR with a 22" barrel that seems to be screaming "Chop me to 16 inches...". Any reason not to with this caliber??
- Thread starter shooterman_zero17
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Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
you might lose a little velocity, but when I had my .17hmr I cut it to 16" and there was no accuracy loss. Shorter rifle made it way more fun to pack and swing out of the truck. YMMV, you always run the risk of changing the barrel harmonics a little when you cut the barrel. MIght be for better, might be for worse...
you might lose a little velocity, but when I had my .17hmr I cut it to 16" and there was no accuracy loss. Shorter rifle made it way more fun to pack and swing out of the truck. YMMV, you always run the risk of changing the barrel harmonics a little when you cut the barrel. MIght be for better, might be for worse...
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
I figured velocity loss. This little breech loader is tits on out to 100, probably more. Just never had the chance to take it further. I keep thinking cut/thread/can=ultimate varmint blaster.
I figured velocity loss. This little breech loader is tits on out to 100, probably more. Just never had the chance to take it further. I keep thinking cut/thread/can=ultimate varmint blaster.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
I have yet to see anyone show any real testing that shows cutting a 17hmr barrel will not harm accuracy. And NO velocity does not show accuracy!!!! I am not a short barrel guy so to me i fall back to if it is not broke, then why are you trying to fix it? I have read where a couple people cut 22lr barrels then talk about having to use more elevation to shoot at distance than they did before the cut. To me that is a huge reason why my barrel will never be cut. To me accuracy is far more than standard grouping, it is consistency and superior ballistics. I for one enjoy the 17hmr because of the flat shooting and the fact it can reach out so far. I will do nothing to hurt that fact and everything i can to help it do so better.
I have yet to see anyone show any real testing that shows cutting a 17hmr barrel will not harm accuracy. And NO velocity does not show accuracy!!!! I am not a short barrel guy so to me i fall back to if it is not broke, then why are you trying to fix it? I have read where a couple people cut 22lr barrels then talk about having to use more elevation to shoot at distance than they did before the cut. To me that is a huge reason why my barrel will never be cut. To me accuracy is far more than standard grouping, it is consistency and superior ballistics. I for one enjoy the 17hmr because of the flat shooting and the fact it can reach out so far. I will do nothing to hurt that fact and everything i can to help it do so better.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GotCox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I for one enjoy the 17hmr because of the flat shooting and the fact it can reach out so far. I will do nothing to hurt that fact and everything i can to help it do so better. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But another part of me says the point of .17hmr is high velocity and losing any would be kinda stupid.</div></div>
I probably won't then. I knew it would kinda null/void the .17HMR's ballistics properties where it shines, just wanted to see if anyone here had firsthand experience. I'll probably thread it at the most. It's rather handy as is, just spitballing. Thanks guys.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GotCox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I for one enjoy the 17hmr because of the flat shooting and the fact it can reach out so far. I will do nothing to hurt that fact and everything i can to help it do so better. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But another part of me says the point of .17hmr is high velocity and losing any would be kinda stupid.</div></div>
I probably won't then. I knew it would kinda null/void the .17HMR's ballistics properties where it shines, just wanted to see if anyone here had firsthand experience. I'll probably thread it at the most. It's rather handy as is, just spitballing. Thanks guys.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
Had a CZ hmr that was 16.5. It shot great, and was a great rifle to walk fields with. I see no reason to not cut it. It's your rifle, and if you like shorter guns, go for it.
Had a CZ hmr that was 16.5. It shot great, and was a great rifle to walk fields with. I see no reason to not cut it. It's your rifle, and if you like shorter guns, go for it.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
No problems with your idea, chop away.
Check out Bullberry barrel works web page and some of the HMR info. Fred was working VERY early on with Hornady in regard to the HMR and optimum barrel lengths. your 16" barrel with can will likely be a winner.
17HMR Velocity
No problems with your idea, chop away.
Check out Bullberry barrel works web page and some of the HMR info. Fred was working VERY early on with Hornady in regard to the HMR and optimum barrel lengths. your 16" barrel with can will likely be a winner.
17HMR Velocity
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> No problems with your idea, chop away.
Check out Bullberry barrel works web page and some of the HMR info. Fred was working VERY early on with Hornady in regard to the HMR and optimum barrel lengths. your 16" barrel with can will likely be a winner.
17HMR Velocity
</div></div>
Velocity and accuracy are not =. You can not look at the velocity of a barrel and ammo and tell how accurate that rifle will be. If average velocity was all that mattered for the accuracy of a rifle then we would all have 6" barrels and shoot dimes at 300 yards. lol Rifles are more accurate than pistols, and even more so with extended ranges. I wish bullberry would edit his page to indicate what the testing was for and what conclusions he is coming to, because i have read in a couple places people show that link and say "See he tested and short is better and more accurate". WOW in the testing accuracy of the shots where not even recorded, just the speed of the round.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> No problems with your idea, chop away.
Check out Bullberry barrel works web page and some of the HMR info. Fred was working VERY early on with Hornady in regard to the HMR and optimum barrel lengths. your 16" barrel with can will likely be a winner.
17HMR Velocity
</div></div>
Velocity and accuracy are not =. You can not look at the velocity of a barrel and ammo and tell how accurate that rifle will be. If average velocity was all that mattered for the accuracy of a rifle then we would all have 6" barrels and shoot dimes at 300 yards. lol Rifles are more accurate than pistols, and even more so with extended ranges. I wish bullberry would edit his page to indicate what the testing was for and what conclusions he is coming to, because i have read in a couple places people show that link and say "See he tested and short is better and more accurate". WOW in the testing accuracy of the shots where not even recorded, just the speed of the round.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
(GOTCOX)
I wish bullberry would edit his page to indicate what the testing was for and what conclusions he is coming to, because i have read in a couple places people show that link and say "See he tested and short is better and more accurate". WOW in the testing accuracy of the shots where not even recorded, just the speed of the round.[/quote]
So your gonna bitch about a a guy that has done more profesional testing on a 17hmr than anyone on the web and posted actual findings rather than your self proclaimed internet expert findings, or posting others hearsay? DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK! He runs a buisness instead of his mouth, And has reported standard deviation for every barrel length. If you knew anything you would know that shot to shot consistancy = accuracy regaurdless of velocity. Why do you think people reload? I have had 4 17hmr rifles of 3 makes cut down to different lengths by BULLBERRY and accuracy has always been sub moa or better. RANT OVER!
(GOTCOX)
I wish bullberry would edit his page to indicate what the testing was for and what conclusions he is coming to, because i have read in a couple places people show that link and say "See he tested and short is better and more accurate". WOW in the testing accuracy of the shots where not even recorded, just the speed of the round.[/quote]
So your gonna bitch about a a guy that has done more profesional testing on a 17hmr than anyone on the web and posted actual findings rather than your self proclaimed internet expert findings, or posting others hearsay? DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK! He runs a buisness instead of his mouth, And has reported standard deviation for every barrel length. If you knew anything you would know that shot to shot consistancy = accuracy regaurdless of velocity. Why do you think people reload? I have had 4 17hmr rifles of 3 makes cut down to different lengths by BULLBERRY and accuracy has always been sub moa or better. RANT OVER!
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300winman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
(GOTCOX)
So your gonna bitch about a a guy that has done more profesional testing on a 17hmr than anyone on the web and posted actual findings rather than your self proclaimed internet expert findings, or posting others hearsay? DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK! He runs a buisness instead of his mouth, And has reported standard deviation for every barrel length. If you knew anything you would know that shot to shot consistancy = accuracy regaurdless of velocity. Why do you think people reload? I have had 4 17hmr rifles of 3 makes cut down to different lengths by BULLBERRY and accuracy has always been sub moa or better. RANT OVER! </div></div>
Sorry someone pissed in your cheerio's this morning. I was not bitching or down playing the work bullberry has done. I am glad they have done and shared the testing as they have. All i was saying is i wish, for clarity purposes, they would emphasis that the test was to measure the FPS from there custom barrels and not as a measure of accuracy that everyone seems to have turned it into.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BullBerry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The purpose was to determine velocities at this length, and every inch shorter down to the practical minimum length of 10".</div></div>
That is the purpose of the testing as done, and as printed on the site.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bullberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Summary: This 10" barrel produced velocity average of only 241 fps slower than the 22" length, and only 262 fps less than the best average of the 19" length.</div></div>
In summary they discuss the FPS differences shown by the barrel length.........BUT not anywhere is there a claim as to more accurate, what barrel length did to groups, what barrel length did to bullet drop at distance, what rate of twist is required to spin the bullet to speed before the end of barrel for best accuracy...... Not to mention all this was done on a custom shop barrel held to high standards. It is not the same as chopping a factory barrel.
So again i say i have seen no testing done by anyone that shows cutting down a 17hmr barrel hurts/helps/changes accuracy in a way that would lead me to believe cutting your barrel is a good idea. But it is not my gun. Do as you please with your rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300winman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
(GOTCOX)
So your gonna bitch about a a guy that has done more profesional testing on a 17hmr than anyone on the web and posted actual findings rather than your self proclaimed internet expert findings, or posting others hearsay? DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK! He runs a buisness instead of his mouth, And has reported standard deviation for every barrel length. If you knew anything you would know that shot to shot consistancy = accuracy regaurdless of velocity. Why do you think people reload? I have had 4 17hmr rifles of 3 makes cut down to different lengths by BULLBERRY and accuracy has always been sub moa or better. RANT OVER! </div></div>
Sorry someone pissed in your cheerio's this morning. I was not bitching or down playing the work bullberry has done. I am glad they have done and shared the testing as they have. All i was saying is i wish, for clarity purposes, they would emphasis that the test was to measure the FPS from there custom barrels and not as a measure of accuracy that everyone seems to have turned it into.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BullBerry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The purpose was to determine velocities at this length, and every inch shorter down to the practical minimum length of 10".</div></div>
That is the purpose of the testing as done, and as printed on the site.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bullberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Summary: This 10" barrel produced velocity average of only 241 fps slower than the 22" length, and only 262 fps less than the best average of the 19" length.</div></div>
In summary they discuss the FPS differences shown by the barrel length.........BUT not anywhere is there a claim as to more accurate, what barrel length did to groups, what barrel length did to bullet drop at distance, what rate of twist is required to spin the bullet to speed before the end of barrel for best accuracy...... Not to mention all this was done on a custom shop barrel held to high standards. It is not the same as chopping a factory barrel.
So again i say i have seen no testing done by anyone that shows cutting down a 17hmr barrel hurts/helps/changes accuracy in a way that would lead me to believe cutting your barrel is a good idea. But it is not my gun. Do as you please with your rifle.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
A good square crown plays a big part in making a barrel shoot more accurately. Something most factory barrels do not posses. As for the velocity @ the legal limit the 17hmr still outperforms any other rimfire. My new gun is 17in and my old one is still stock (21in). I chronyed out of both guns and there is an average of 10fps difference between the two @5500ft elevation.I doubt that a poi change would happen with either gun due to the fact that they are so close in speed. The shorter barreled gun not only shoots better its lighter too.
A good square crown plays a big part in making a barrel shoot more accurately. Something most factory barrels do not posses. As for the velocity @ the legal limit the 17hmr still outperforms any other rimfire. My new gun is 17in and my old one is still stock (21in). I chronyed out of both guns and there is an average of 10fps difference between the two @5500ft elevation.I doubt that a poi change would happen with either gun due to the fact that they are so close in speed. The shorter barreled gun not only shoots better its lighter too.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Velocity and accuracy are not =. You can not look at the velocity of a barrel and ammo and tell how accurate that rifle will be. If average velocity was all that mattered for the accuracy of a rifle then we would all have 6" barrels and shoot dimes at 300 yards. lol Rifles are more accurate than pistols, and even more so with extended ranges. I wish bullberry would edit his page to indicate what the testing was for and what conclusions he is coming to, because i have read in a couple places people show that link and say "See he tested and short is better and more accurate". WOW in the testing accuracy of the shots where not even recorded, just the speed of the round.
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I think you wandered off in the weeds a bit. No one said anything about accuracy and barrel length being =. Were not talking bench rest calibers here.
The link I posted is just a good source of information for the OP to consider when he makes his decision on barrel length. Its an accurate hunting/varmint round in any length barrel. you just need to decide what is more important max velocity or a compact rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Velocity and accuracy are not =. You can not look at the velocity of a barrel and ammo and tell how accurate that rifle will be. If average velocity was all that mattered for the accuracy of a rifle then we would all have 6" barrels and shoot dimes at 300 yards. lol Rifles are more accurate than pistols, and even more so with extended ranges. I wish bullberry would edit his page to indicate what the testing was for and what conclusions he is coming to, because i have read in a couple places people show that link and say "See he tested and short is better and more accurate". WOW in the testing accuracy of the shots where not even recorded, just the speed of the round.
</div></div>
I think you wandered off in the weeds a bit. No one said anything about accuracy and barrel length being =. Were not talking bench rest calibers here.
The link I posted is just a good source of information for the OP to consider when he makes his decision on barrel length. Its an accurate hunting/varmint round in any length barrel. you just need to decide what is more important max velocity or a compact rifle.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
Take it or leave it i emailed Varmint Al to ask him about this subject and what the test bullberry did shows.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GotCox</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My question is about barrel length, velocity SD and accuracy. It seems a lot of people (around the internet) see the barrel length info on your site from bullberry and conclude that the length for the 5 shot string with the lowest SD in velocity must be the best length for accuracy. And as such people are starting to cut there barrels to this 17-18 inch range. I understand the part velocity and SD of ammo plays in accuracy, but i don't feel that test is either conclusive or indicative of accuracy, just the velocity it was tested to show. Am i missing something and understanding things wrong, or are these people making a mistake by cutting there barrels?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Al</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Bullberry barrel length test only looked at muzzle velocity. It was a new barrel and with the earliest ammo. I personally use 22” barrels on my Contender and it is very accurate. I don’t think there is any implied affect on accuracy and barrel length in the test.
Good Hunting from Al Harral (Varmint Al)</div></div>
Take it or leave it i emailed Varmint Al to ask him about this subject and what the test bullberry did shows.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GotCox</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My question is about barrel length, velocity SD and accuracy. It seems a lot of people (around the internet) see the barrel length info on your site from bullberry and conclude that the length for the 5 shot string with the lowest SD in velocity must be the best length for accuracy. And as such people are starting to cut there barrels to this 17-18 inch range. I understand the part velocity and SD of ammo plays in accuracy, but i don't feel that test is either conclusive or indicative of accuracy, just the velocity it was tested to show. Am i missing something and understanding things wrong, or are these people making a mistake by cutting there barrels?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Al</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Bullberry barrel length test only looked at muzzle velocity. It was a new barrel and with the earliest ammo. I personally use 22” barrels on my Contender and it is very accurate. I don’t think there is any implied affect on accuracy and barrel length in the test.
Good Hunting from Al Harral (Varmint Al)</div></div>
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
I cut mine to 16". Didn't change my dope enough to even matter at ranges I shoot it....out to 300yds. The gun also increased in accuracy. Whether that is due to increase in stiffness of the shorter barrel or the redone crown is up for interpretation. According to my chrono I lost something like 24 fps average if I remember right vs the same barrel at 22". Kind of defies general logic that would say velocity loss would be more but that is what I saw.
I cut mine to 16". Didn't change my dope enough to even matter at ranges I shoot it....out to 300yds. The gun also increased in accuracy. Whether that is due to increase in stiffness of the shorter barrel or the redone crown is up for interpretation. According to my chrono I lost something like 24 fps average if I remember right vs the same barrel at 22". Kind of defies general logic that would say velocity loss would be more but that is what I saw.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
Yep, Al said, what I said, what You said, and the others said, Barrel length affects velocity, many other variables for accuracy. My point was that shortening the tube will likely not hurt accuracy enough to worry about.
All this aside I talked with AL many years ago when I was putting together my first Contender, I was drooling over his Bullberry 17AH. 20-22" gives those rigs the perfect balance, and optimum velocity.
That is true for most of the 17 calibers.
Varmint Als web page should be required reading for anyone getting into shooting, reloading, or any of a ton of interesting topics. He is a neat old bird with a wealth of information he has shared over the years. I learned a lot of tricks from reading his web pages and e mailing back and forth.
He should write a couple books on his outdoor activities.
I was just able to pick up a Bullberry 17HMR, and a 22WMR barrel for my Contender both 18", couldn't pass them up. I needed another HMR like I needed a hole in the head, but what the hell its a fun little round.
Yep, Al said, what I said, what You said, and the others said, Barrel length affects velocity, many other variables for accuracy. My point was that shortening the tube will likely not hurt accuracy enough to worry about.
All this aside I talked with AL many years ago when I was putting together my first Contender, I was drooling over his Bullberry 17AH. 20-22" gives those rigs the perfect balance, and optimum velocity.
That is true for most of the 17 calibers.
Varmint Als web page should be required reading for anyone getting into shooting, reloading, or any of a ton of interesting topics. He is a neat old bird with a wealth of information he has shared over the years. I learned a lot of tricks from reading his web pages and e mailing back and forth.
He should write a couple books on his outdoor activities.
I was just able to pick up a Bullberry 17HMR, and a 22WMR barrel for my Contender both 18", couldn't pass them up. I needed another HMR like I needed a hole in the head, but what the hell its a fun little round.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
Since when does having to dial more elevation equate to being less accurate?
Since when does having to dial more elevation equate to being less accurate?
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
All good info.
Another angle if one was really worried about velocity there are a herd of centerfire .17 calibers available.
I do a lot of fox hunting up here and have been messing around with them for years. You can start with the HMR at 2500ish with the 20g offerings and go all the way past 4000fps with a 25 g bullet if you desire.
Hornady had just come out with the Hornady Hornet which is a necked down 22 Hornet case, pretty much a slightly different factory version of the 17 Ackley hornet that has been around for many years.
Rimfire limits you to the hm2 and HMR, but the ballistics of the 17 HMR and beyond can easily be reached in the centerfires with different bullet and powder combos. Also reduced loads will save some money if you enjoy tinkering at the reloading bench. My full power hunting load is 13g of powder, so a pound goes a LONG way.
Just another option, or excuse of another rifle or contender barrel.
All good info.
Another angle if one was really worried about velocity there are a herd of centerfire .17 calibers available.
I do a lot of fox hunting up here and have been messing around with them for years. You can start with the HMR at 2500ish with the 20g offerings and go all the way past 4000fps with a 25 g bullet if you desire.
Hornady had just come out with the Hornady Hornet which is a necked down 22 Hornet case, pretty much a slightly different factory version of the 17 Ackley hornet that has been around for many years.
Rimfire limits you to the hm2 and HMR, but the ballistics of the 17 HMR and beyond can easily be reached in the centerfires with different bullet and powder combos. Also reduced loads will save some money if you enjoy tinkering at the reloading bench. My full power hunting load is 13g of powder, so a pound goes a LONG way.
Just another option, or excuse of another rifle or contender barrel.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
Sounds like the 17 Remington, based off a 222 case. That is smoking. I am one of the few trying to reduce the velocity in my varmint guns. I am loading reduced loads in the 17 Rem and 17 Mach IV (fireball) for fur gathering. Full power can be really rough, even with 25g bullets.
They are all fun to shoot and very accurate. I still love the 17 HMR though. I will take it out my CZ 452 v this afternoon to see about a St Patty's day fox.
Sounds like the 17 Remington, based off a 222 case. That is smoking. I am one of the few trying to reduce the velocity in my varmint guns. I am loading reduced loads in the 17 Rem and 17 Mach IV (fireball) for fur gathering. Full power can be really rough, even with 25g bullets.
They are all fun to shoot and very accurate. I still love the 17 HMR though. I will take it out my CZ 452 v this afternoon to see about a St Patty's day fox.
Re: .17HMR and barrel length...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sounds like the 17 Remington, based off a 222 case.</div></div>
Yep, that's it. My uncle has one and it's ridiculous. It's about as flat shooting as you can get in a rifle, unless you mod your rifle into a railgun.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sounds like the 17 Remington, based off a 222 case.</div></div>
Yep, that's it. My uncle has one and it's ridiculous. It's about as flat shooting as you can get in a rifle, unless you mod your rifle into a railgun.
