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Rifle Scopes Millett TRS1. The test begins...

hrfunk

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 18, 2010
622
0
57
Ohio
The first post I ever put up on Sniper's Hide was an inquiry regarding the quality of the Millett TRS1. The response to that post was tantamount to a digital pummeling wherein I was admonished to utilize the search feature since my question had reportedly been asked and answered many times.

Upon recovering from my trip to the virtual woodshed, I did as I was told and my various searches generally revealed three basic opinions:

1. It's a Chi-com piece of crap and I wouldn't put one on my kid's super-soaker.

2. I had one, but I got rid of it and bought a ________.

3. I've got one and it's a descent scope for the price.

When it came to reviews that really examined the performance and features of these scopes, I found precisely one; and it was on another site. Even that review was somewhat sparse on the info pertaining to the scope's performance (although it did a pretty good job of outlining its features). Moreover, the scope reviewed there was one of the older 1/8 MOA models manufactured before Millett was purchased by Bushnell.

So, in an effort to determine the quality of these scopes (or lack thereof), I purchased one and mounted it to an AR platform that I use operationally as an LE Sniper (relax, I won't be deploying with it until/unless I'm certain I can trust it). The rifle itself is capable of holding 1/2 MOA, and my plan is to evaluate the scope to ascertain whether it is capable of delivering the level of performance I feel is necessary in a precision rifle optic. I should emphasize here, that this evaluation is for use as an optic on an LE Sniper's system. Unlike our military counterparts, LE Snipers do not jump out of airplanes, we are rarely if ever in close proximety to an explosion, and we don't typically have to spend days inching our way into position while dragging our rifle in tow. Thus, you will not see a video of me dropping my rifle off a building; smashing it into a fence post, or beating on the scope with another scope.

None of the above should be taken as any kind of suggestion that an LE Sniper's system can afford to be fragile. My equipment and I have spent our share of time swimming in swamp water; fighting though gawd-awful brush; and bouncing around in the back of a SWAT vehicle. I'm just clarifying the fact that our equipment is not subjected to the same extremes as those deployed by our military brothers. The TRS1 will be subjected to what I would call "normal" conditions for an LE system (if the word normal can ever be applied to anything related to Snipers). Also I should mention that the maximum effective range for this system will be set at 300 yards. It's not that I can't shoot farther than that, or that my marksmanship skills are so deficient as to render me incapable of a shot beyond that range. It is simply the fact that I am unlikely to ever be authorized by an incident commander to take a shot beyond that distance. This post will likely be the first installment of a multi-part test. Feel free to hit me with any questions you may have.

Thus it begins:

The TRS1 is a big beefy scope. Big enough, in fact, that it adds significantly to the size and weight of the system. I'm hoping that the size and weight translate into rugged durability, but time will tell. The particular scope I acquired is the ATACS camo model. The camo appears to be a simple "dip" job, and I'm not sure how well it will survive the brush I have to fight my way through on some of my operations. Both the power ring and the paralax knob turned fairly easily, although the power ring could have been a bit lighter. The reticle is Millett's "Mil-Dot Bar", and it is calibrated to be accurate at 10X. As far as the optic quality of the TRS1 goes, I did not note any of the"milky" fade that I've seen referenced by other users at the higher powers. From my back deck, I could easily view a house approximately 1200 yards away with enough clarity to determine the color of shirt and hat being worn by the guy mowing his yard. That seems clear enough for my purposes. The windage and elevation turrets are graduated in 1/4 MOA clicks, and that is where I encountered my first problem. The first TRS1 I received was found to be defective. The elevation turret felt extremely gritty through approximately half its rotation. It was, therefore, quickly returned to Millett/Bushnell (Yes, I paid the 10 bucks for the return). That original scope was promptly replaced with a new one. The elevation turret on the replacement scope was much improved over the first. There was no gritty feeling noted. The clicks are fairly distinct and they are both tactile and audible. Occasionally (about one in every 10 or so) is a bit mushy, so you have to pay attention to what you are doing when you change your dope.

Today I made it to the range for an initial zero with the TRS1. Ammunition was 77 gr. FGMM. It took 5 rounds to zero the scope, and then I shot my first 3 shot group at a face target. The result was just over half MOA CTC (5/8"), and nicely centered between the eyes of the target. I also checked the calibration of the mil scale on the reticle and confirmed that it is, indeed, correct at 10X. As my time was limited today (I actually had to stop at one point and go handle a domestic!), I didn't shoot a box test, or do any additionaly testing. In the coming days I'll attend to those matters and report my findings. I'll also be taking this system to our our Sniper Team's training session next Friday to see how it performs there. Thus far, despite the rocky beginning with the first scope being returned, the TRS1 seems to be acquiting itself pretty well. But, as I said earlier, time will tell.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

A lot of sifting is generally necessary to obtain meaningful information off the web, and you never know what will set people off if you post, so I'm glad to see a more through approach taken.

I have a TRS on a Savage .308, and, while I haven't shot it a lot (about 300 rounds so far), I have used it to hit steel out to 1,370 yards and even tried a few shots at a mile, but had no hope of seeing hits without a spotter so gave that up. I have used it enough to find that 1) it does not seem to detract from the accuracy of the rifle, and 2) it is repeatable. The glass isn't great (at 14.5x my Leupold is better than the Millett at 16) but is reasonable for the price. The elevation turret clicks are not as distinct as for the windage knob, but I have been living with it and it is improving (mine is mil-mil and I don't count clicks but use the scale on the knob).

So far, it is serving the purpose for me - putting a rifle in action that would otherwise be waiting for optics, and doing it with a minimum of compromise.

Good luck with your continued evaluation.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Lostcoyote - all I can say is I haven't experienced those problems (yet) with the scope I'm evaluating. If they develop, I'll let you know.

Flyrodder - thanks for the kind words. I agree, the image quality with the TRS1 is not quite up to the level of the Leupy LR/T, but as you pointed out, it's not too bad.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

A couple more things occurred to me that I neglected to include in my original post. One is the reticle thickness. I've seen some reviews mention that the reticle in the TRS1 is too thick to allow precise aiming. Yesterday during my zeroing, my point of aim was the quarter MOA dot at the center of a 1" target. At 100 yards, I had no trouble aiming at the .25 MOA dot. I'm not sure how far you would have to be shooting for that reticle's sub tension to become a hinderance, but it would definately be a long way.

The other thing I thought of was the reticle illumination. I haven't noticed any bleeding of the illuminated reticle into the scope tube. I don't, however, use the illuminated reticle in bright conditions. In low light, I only use enough illumination to easily see the reticle. I don't try to crank it up and use it as a portable tanning light.

I'm going to try to check the overall low light characteristics of the glass tonight.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Interested in hearing more.

I saw these last month on closeout at Natchez's for $240 and thought about it, but they have a bit less power than I'm looking for.

I'd be interested in seeing a pic of the scope on your rifle to get an idea of the size, as well.

As with some other manufacturers, I'm totally frustrated by lack of specs.

How much internal adjustment? Funny how they don't provide this info as if it doesn't matter...takes a lot of clicks to shoot long range...length? weight?

I've seen the LRS, and it looks like a spotting scope mounted on a rifle...
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

I'm working on pics. I haven't quite figured out how to post them yet.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Two criticisms I've seen directed at the TRS1 probably need to be touched on in this evaluation. One pertains to the owner's manual and it is a valid complaint. The manual is outdated and it needs to be revised. Some of the info applies to the older 1/8 MOA scopes. There is also some disagreement between the manual and the millett website regarding the mildot-bar reticle. I think that disparity has given rise to some of the confusion I've noted regarding the correct power for ranging with the reticle. At 10X, the reticle subtends one mil from the center of a dot to the next dash. The dashes are not "half-mil" indicators.

The other complaint I've seen pertains to the flip-up covers included with the scope. While they may not be quite as good as those manufactured by Butler Creek, the seem functional enough (so far), and they are quick and cheep to replace if you don't like them. In any case, they are much better than the bikini style covers used by other companies.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

A positive note to report here. The side focus knob on the TRS1 is actually focused and parallax free at the distances indicated on it. This sounds like a small thing, I know, but there are some scopes where the focus/parallax free setting does not correspond with the markings indicated on the knob.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Ok, I just finished two simultaneous tests. The first was an assessment of the TRS1's low-light qualities. The other was an evaluation of its illuminated reticle.

When it comes to putting low-light performance into words, I face a bit of a challenge. Nevertheless, I'll do my best. In an effort to make the test challenging, I selected items finished in a camouflage pattern. The items were of different sizes and placed at different ranges in the woods behind my house. The first was an M-65 field jacket in woodland camo placed at 50 yards. The second was a boonie cover in desert digi-cam at 35 yards. The last was standard Marine issue utility cover (ooh rah!) also in a woodland pattern at 25 yards. I must stress that viewing all three items required looking through small tree limbs and all the things that hang from them. Also, even though there are currently no leaves on the trees, the tree trunks themselves cast shadows and helped diminish the available light.

My goal was to see how long I could distinguish the items at their respective distances as the ambient light decreased. I began the test at sundown and stopped when it was completely dark. The results of this test were quite interesting. The field jacket at 50 yards was visible as such through the scope long after its appearance to the naked eye had degraded to the point of looking like a dark tree trunk in the woods. It remained distinguishable until after the moon appeared (which was roughly midway between sundown and complete darkness. i.e. it was quite dim. The boonie at 35 yards was visible until after the stars came out and it faded to oblivion just as the last vestiges of twilight were waning. Interestingly, when I lost the boonie, the cover at 25 yards was all but invisible. I attribute that to a large dark tree trunk directly behind it. Truthfully I could still find it in the scope, but only because I knew where to look.

At this point, I began to scan random items in the woods and fields behind my house. All in all I was favorably impressed by the low-light performance of the TRS1 throughout the entire test. While it certainly isn't a Nightforce or a Ziess, it isn't all that bad either. I think someone using the TRS1 under like conditions could do a lot worse. I'll report on the illuminated reticle in my next installment.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Ok, as promised, a brief discussion regarding the reticle illumination. First, I have to admitt that I'm a late arrival to world of illuminated scopes. After surviving as a Sniper for many years using non-illuminated optics, I regarded lighted reticles as more novelty than necessity. In any case, I've come to view illuminated reticles as an attribute in low-light situations. I still do not use illumination in daylight conditions, and I find the practice of doing so a bit odd (I'm talking about optics mounted on precision rifles here, not red dots on patrol/assault rifles). Anyway, back to the TRS1.

As the light faded last night, my view through the scope remained bright enough for me to easily see the reticle with no illumination until just before the field jacket became invisible. When I noted the reticle was becoming somewhat difficult to distinguish from the dark background, I turned the illumination selector to its first position. That position is designated as the "night vision" setting, but it perfectly redefined the reticle for my eye. At that setting, there was no excess light flooding the tube, and the green light was comfortable and easy to see. I could still distinguish the dots and dashes of the mil-dot bar too. I never had any reason to increase the illumination to a higher setting, and just left it there until it was good and dark.

In the interest of being thorough, I did increase the illumination to the higher settings prior to ending the test. Not surprisingly, I started to see illumination bleeding into the tube at setting number 3. Again, this was in very dark conditions, and I can't imagine why anyone would use that (or a higher) setting under those conditions. The bleed over got worse as the illumination level continued to increase. If someone were to use these higher settings in the daylight, though, (which, as stated above, I don't do) I suspect the. bleed over would have been far less noticeable.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Nice write up. I also bought this scope when my funds got light after purchasing and setting up my rifle. It was not what I wanted, but I also wanted to start shooting my rifle, a Sako TRG-22 with Near 25 MOA base and Alpha Mount, and Terje's stock mods. I have since replaced this scope with a NF NXS 5.5-22X50, MLR HS ZS and I believe the difference is night and day. That said I would like to add my .02 cents regarding the Millet.

I don't think the glass is all that great, but it is not too bad for the price. I also found the clarity to be diminished at the higher levels. Not so bad as it can't be used, but certainly not the same as it is at lower levels.

I also found that if the illumination is turned up above one of the lowest settings there is some leakage.

Just my opinion, but I think the Mil-Dot-Bar reticle is not a good design. Trying to quickly range targets had me more than once messing up. I have no problem with that using the NF MLR reticle. Maybe that's just me, but I don't like it.

I found that trying to position the zoom at exactly 10X to range was problematic, certainly not like just turning the ring until it stops. Any time I wanted to put it on 10X I had to change my position just to be able to see it as I didn't trust the click at 10X as it was not that definitive.

My biggest complaint with the scope (and mine was Mil-Mil) was that the turrets did not exactly equal what they were supposed to. At 600 yards my dope should have been about 4.4 Mils, but it took me 5.2 with the Millet. If this was the same proportion for every range then I could have understood it, but the further out I went the more off the Mils were. The turrets on the NF that I use now are spot on, and I have not talked to anyone else who has the same issue with a higher end scope. Maybe it's just me and I am not picking up on something, but for me that is a big deal.

I don't mean to knock the Millet, and that is not my intent. In fact if it were not for me purchasing the Millet I would not have been able to shoot my rifle for over a year. I wasn't willing to do that, so the Millet was a great stop-gap measure for me. I actually used the Millet on my rifle to shoot some F-Class and it worked fine, so for its price range I think it is one of the best scopes available.

That said, I would not use it for a police scope. As I am a retired Trooper, and have been working for a local police department since I retired, I feel very confident in that statement. With the moral and legal ramifications that will certainly arise anytime that piece of equipment is put into use, I would want something of a higher quality for that kind of work. Keep in mind that this is just my opinion and I am not the definitive authority when it comes to this stuff. However, I have been involved in police work for almost thirty years and I have seen more than one person get thrown, or attempted to be thrown under the bus for less, so I'm just trying to offer some insight.

Thanks again for your efforts and best of luck to you.

 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Thanks for the kind words. I should stress that this evaluation is incomplete. By the time it's done, I may be the one who's telling people not to buy a Millett scope. One of my concerns, though, is the propensity to declare something as being junk or immaculate with little or no substantiation. At least when I arrive at a decision I'll be able to point to specific reasons for that decision.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Great start to your writeup.

The most significant failing that I have found with the millett line is with their occular lens. While at a bench using a rest and rear bag, adjust the occular lens. Most Millett scopes have enough play in this adjustment to cause the reticle to move all over the place; easily several MOA. After seeing this in a TRS-1 and two LRS models, my testing was done.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

I didn't notice that problem with the ocular lens when I focused the reticle, but I'll watch for it.

I did run across one minor annoyance. You can't reset the turrets to zero when the turrets are locked. Not a big problem, but it forces you to be very careful when you reset them.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

HR...

Can you tell me the range of internal adjustment available on this scope?
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Seems to be about 80 MOA. I've seen references to 100 MOA, but I think that's actually for the LRS.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

OK, I'm going to give this a try. I think I've figured out how to add a photo. If so, you'll see my rifle with the Millett Scope below.

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Well, that didn't work quite the way I intended, but at least you can follow the link!

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Good write up. I have a TRS-2 same scope fixed 10x. All the points you mention are spot on with this model also. I've got it on my SPS Tactical in .308. So far so good.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Thanks. "So far, so good" pretty much sums up my position at this juncture. In the "Pro" column, the TRS scores with price, warranty service, usable (but not stunning) glass, descent low-light performance, tube strength, useful illumination of the reticle, accuracy potential, and correspondence between the markings on the focus knob and the actual focus/parallax free position.

"Cons" would be the occasional mushy click, the requirement of rezeroing the turrets while they are unlocked, overall (excessive?) size and weight.

So far, there seems to be more in the pro column than the con, but there is more testing to be performed!

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Excellent writup. Kudos for an honest evaluation of a scope that seems to have an air of mystery surrounding it. Most of the reviews I have found for it fall into the "piece of crap" or "awesome scope" categories, but with little to no supporting tests being included in the review.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

I have owned my TRS for about a year, had it on a 17HMR and then moved to my .308 while I wait for funds to clear up for a Premier. Figured I would add to your thread some of my observations.

I feel like for the $300 or so they ask for this scope you get good value for the money you spent. It is squarely in the Good column in my opinion, the illumination works well at the lowest settings like you have mentioned and it has maintained zero for me. The glass is fairly cloudy at 16x and the windage knob is extremely mushy so I just use the reticle for holds.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

I believe all of you who have mentioned the cloudy, or milky, view at the higher magnification settings; but, I honestly don't see it in the scope I'm evaluating. I'm beginning to suspect one of the bigger issues with the TRS1 is mediocre quality control. If you get a good one, it works fine. If not, you end up dealing with some of the issues that have been noted. Having actually utilized the warranty service, I would encourage anyone dealing with problems to return their scope for repair or replacement.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Any experience with the lrs-1? I have one on order for my 300 win after playing with the trs and finding it comparable to my mark ar at half the price. I don't think low light will be any different with its massive 35mm tube. I am concerned with qc issues.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Sorry, Wish I had some intel for you. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts after you get it, though.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Well written, but I have a couple of questions. 1 Are you required to purchase your own gear as many of us are, such as myself? 2 Are you aware that some higher end companies offers a L.E. purchase program ?( p.m. me for details). 3 Do you feel 100% that if you were called out to a (insert FUBAR senario here)______________ that required you to use deadly force to save another life would you use that scope? Now granted I read that it was T&E but for possible duty use? If its your wife, mother, grandmother, sister, baby momma, ect. Please dont take this post as a personal insult or attack its not meant that way, just as a devils advocate or alternate view so to speak. I also understand that LEO " precision rifle " operators are nothing like our military counterparts. However and correct me if I am wrong, our cold bore shots are the ones that count. Our equiptment must be rugged and reliable as our public whom we work for and are sworn to protect are worhty of the extra scratch for a quality optic. Thanks for your service and the time that you took to conduct a write for those new to the sport that may look at this optic.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

I will be evaluating it alongside my new savage 110 fcp hs precision. I hope to get my mark ar back from leupold (parallax adj. bound up) so i can evaluate rifle separate from the scope. Look for it in the next couple of weeks. All threads on that scope are outdated and full of unfair comparisions to nf. I would take us optics over nf any day but don't feel like topping a $930 rifle with a $3k scope right now.

Like i mentioned - these are in the leupold mark ar family and only share certain features with vortex/leu mk 4/nf/us optics. Any comparision between those optics and millett is not fair.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Zebra308, Thanks for your reply. No offense taken at all. I'll answer your question thus. I have been a Sniper for a long time. I am confident in MY skills and abilities. The purpose of my evaluation is to see if I feel that those skills I've worked so hard to develop are impacted negatively by the TRS1. If so, I will be the first to tell you. Yes, the cold bore is considered to be the most important shot we take (although, I would say for any Sniper, the most important shot we take is always the next one. Because for that shot we apply everything we have learned from every previous shot).

ALL Snipers purchase some amount of our own gear. We are easily the smallest collective group in the larger tactical officer community. That, and the fact that our equipment is so specialized, dictates that we will always receive a smaller amount of the allocated funds than we need. I haven't mentioned it before, but another one of my motivations for doing this evaluation is to determine if some of my brother Snipers can utilize something in this price range and hope for a descent level of performance. I could afford a Night Force if I wanted one. It would hurt, but I could afford and S&B if I wanted one. However, I have members of my Sniper Team from other agencies whose command won't even buy them ammunition for training. These are trained, dedicated Snipers; and true to form they improvised a solution for their dilemma. Specifically, one of their fathers provides them with his own hand-loads (at his own expense) to use for training. This, by the way, galls me. The fact that they can't even get ammo, and the fact that they have to spring for much of their own gear out of their own pockets (not tremendously big pockets either), compels me to research what I can in an effort to help them. I post the results of my analysis here in hopes that it may be of aid to any other Snipers in similar circumstances.

Sorry if I went on a rant, that situation just makes my blood boil.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

HR, thanks for your service.. and you are absolutely correct in that the majority of departments seem to skip over this very important job. And give your buddies dad a pat on the back from us. Thumbs up for making sure his son, and all the people he watches over are protected by someone with ongoing training and experience.

As for the TRS and LRS, I can speak to the LRS-1. I had a 6-25 and can compare it to quite a few scopes I have owned or used. The glass was great, light transmission was outstanding (probaby the brightest scope I've owned), but I was troubled by a few items on the first one I purchased. The turret elevation markers were loose, the reticle was canted, and there was debris in the tube. Bushnell was excellent to replace it and the replacement LRS1 was flawless. As HRFUNK said, I believe if you have a good one, it will be an outstanding optic for the money. My LRS, even with the problems, tracked well and was easy to read mirage at distance.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Nice write up. I thought about one of these, but you have enforced the reasons I don't have one. I would never put one on a duty rifle. If you have to test it, then it is not enough scope. The reasoning has been mentioned. If something goes wrong, how are you going to answer the question, "Have you ever heard of problems with the equipment you used"? I would want to answer "No". I have a Falcon Menace on a non-duty AR. I have 0 complaints, I still would not have it on a duty rifle. Just my 2 cents, but probably worth less than that. I'm not knocking it, just saying my thoughts. Thanks for the posts....
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Great write up...I can say that the Millet scopes made my short list but because of all the either great or either crap info I found I went with a fixed power SuperSniper. I too just want something to get me by until I can pick up a better (read expensive) scope.

Thanks and I look forward to reading the rest of your report.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Darkarcher, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I would ask you to at least reconsider the notion that "if you have to test it, its not enough scope." It is imperitive for us all to test every piece of gear we use, and to test it under conditions similar to those in which we might deploy. Simply relying blindly on a name or reputation could leave you in a bad situation. Now, on to the liability issue. Since I teach officers and civilians about this topic, I feel I can make some sort of an intelligent comment regarding it.

Do you believe that a trained Sniper who center-punches a bad guy under justifiable circumstances will incur some additional laibility if he fires the shot in question with a NEF Handirifle and sights it through a Barska scope?

Similarly, do you believe an unreasonable use of force will be somehow mitigated if the officer in questions fires the shot with an H&K PSG-1 , and sights it through an S&B scope?

The answer to both of those questions is "no". What matters in any use of force incident is that the amount of force used is objectively reasonable based upon the officer's interpretation of the facts and circumstances AT THE TIME such force is applied. (SCOTUS Graham v. Connor). If an officer has any reasonable belief that a certain act is unreasonable under the 4th amendment, then that act should not be taken. In any case, and I stress this to officers I teach, the reasonableness, or lack thereof, in any case where use of force is examined will eventually come down to their (or their attorney's) ability to articulate why those actions were reasonable at the time the force was applied.

This, by the way, is another reason for testing one's gear and documenting those tests. So that 1) you can state unequivocally why you had a reasonable belief in the performance of that equipment. 2) Why you had a reasonable belief in your ability to employ that piece of equipment, and 3) How often you had employed it under various conditions so as to form that reasonable belief.

I hope this settles the liability question once and for all. This evaluation is the first baby step in forming a reasonable belief. If the TRS1 fails, then it does not progress to more advanced stages.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Good review, I bought one for hunting and steel target shooting and it suits those purposes great. I would not feel comfortable using it in a law enforcement setting. However if you are going to volunteer to be part of a law enforcement swat or similar type team my opinion is get a good gun and glass and train hard or don't volunteer. I'm an Attorney and live in Ohio and you don't won't to be on that end of the shit storm of legal bs that follows a shoot good or bad you'll end up answering questions, you want the best for yourself if your gonna hang it out there.
As a side note and maybe a whole new thread I'm interested as to why the 223/556 platform for snipers?? .308 is the standard isn't it for LE?
Instant incapacitation out of a cold bore being the goal why not go with a heavier bullet/caliber like the .308. Lots of precedent legally and training to go off of.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Nope you are good go about the rant even I am limited on how much match grade ammo I am allowed to shoot per year, and buy my own stuff when not at the Police range. I completely understand send me a p.m. as I would really like to chat with you and maybe give some and get ideas.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

You're right Wood. That's a whole different kettle of fish. Hit me with a PM and I'll try to answer that one.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Thanks for the info. I figured the trs and lrs would be of similar quality. That's why i spent $30 extra through midway usa because i know if i get a dud they will take care of me if bushnell doesn't.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Points well taken. Believe me, I have punished all the equipment I have deployed with. I think I could have stated it better. I just would be very hesitant to use a scope that seems to have frequent issues, or at least has issues that would be easily accessed by a simple Google search. You know you are only going to be called to the carpet if it goes wrong. If it is justifiable and declared a good shoot, you may only have to answer in civil court when the estate of the dirtbag sues. I do commend you for the work you do and to do it on your own buck, and I understand tight budget. I just think this is an area where budget could bite you in the ass. I would rather have peace of mind. Our department is very specific about equipment to be used in policy to help take the liability off the officer.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

I don't think it is a question of whether a shoot is justifiable or not. The question is if something doesn't go exactly right, even though the shoot is justifiable, who is left holding the bill? This is a situation that happens more often in law enforcement than we would like.

There will always be a civil issue whether events are justifiable or not. What is important is that all equipment, actions and training can be defended in court. Both the department that I retired from, and the one I work for now, have strict requirements for both training and equipment that cannot be deviated from. These include but are not limited to, firearms and calibers, optics, non lethal weapons, and ammunition. The .308 147 gr. bullet may not be ideal for each and every situation, but that is the one and only round approved by my current department for use in any rifle chambered for that caliber, either gas or bolt. And this is only with approved factory ammunition, no hand loads at all. These policies are not punitive against individual officers, but limit avenues that attorneys can attempt to pursue during litigation against said officers or their departments.

If a department does not adequately supply its officers (i.e. SWAT) then maybe they can't legally justify those positions. More importantly, maybe they will not have the resources or desire to stand behind those officers using their own equipment should litigation arise. Not knocking any departments, just providing food for thought.

If this situation does develop and a department is looking for allied agencies to bolster their case, I think they would be hard pressed to find an established tactical unit that uses this scope. That in itself would preclude me from wanting to use it, regardless of how well you get it to perform, but that's just me.

Just because a shoot is good, that doesn't mean there will not be repercussions. I applaud your testing and wish you the very best with whatever you end up using, but I stick by my earlier statement that I would not use an optic of this caliber in any law enforcement situation.

I'm not trying to shoot down your testing, or to tell you what to use, and I still applaud your attempts to decipher information for yourself as opposed to just going with an anonymous internet opinion. If you do end up using a Millet I wish you only good things with it.

May all your troubles be small ones.

Just my .02 cents.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Could you please provide the citation to a case where an officer or department was held liable solely based upon the optic selected by a SWAT sniper?

Thank You,
HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

The issues with these scopes are qc related. If it survives the first hundred rounds it seems you are good to go as long as your scope correctly rtzs. I don't think there is any reason why it should be out of the question for a swat sniper.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Thank you for your thoughtful review.. I too have been disappointed with the lack of objective reviews. I have a TRS-1 mil/mil. I have not fired yet and believe after mounting that the reticule is canted. I know that I can box it and find out for sure, but, I am lazy and do not want to waste ammunition to sight and even then still not be sure it's not just me.. I am amused by the discussion on equipment. Liability for using a low quality scope? I have a dear friend who was the Warden of the Washington State Penitentiary from 1954 to 1974. He told me stories of when the guards only had 1897 pump shotguns and the "Snipers" were issued 1894 Winchesters. Ahhh the good ole days. Some things are consistent with time and that is we need better equipment. It does seem that the base moves upward. Bobby loved it when he got equipped with surplus 1903 Springfield's..I have no idea what is issued today, but I do remember Richard Mason was team leader and he got everyone Remington 700's.. With scopes.. Keep up the good work..
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hrfunk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you please provide the citation to a case where an officer or department was held liable solely based upon the optic selected by a SWAT sniper?

Thank You,
HRF </div></div>

Specifics? No sir, I can't. But I would not want to be the test case for it.

Personally I cannot see using anything but the best equipment in this line of work, particularly when lives are on the line, but again, that's just me. Your experience, expectations and liabilities may be different, but from my observations and experience the Millet scope didn't even come close to that benchmark.

Like I said before, whatever equipment you choose, I wish you all the best with it.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

I find this review particularly interesting and timely and am looking forward to upcoming installments as I have one of the newer TRS-1's residing on a Howa 1500 chambered in .223. I have not experienced any "milkiness" to the glass at high magnification and so far I can state that so far so good. I should state for the record that I am not LE, a sniper nor an attorney. I believe that we live in a litigious society where any number of things could be dreamed up by a plaintiffs attorney to somehow be awarded compensation for one he/she was representing. I also think that when or if asked the question of "have you ever heard of issues with with a given piece of equipment" a suitable answer of "yes, as I have with any mechanical object that I have researched in depth. My findings for THIS particular object are the following" and citing this very in depth T&E would be sufficient to dispel any future questions on the matter were they to be a positive outcome. YMMV. Thank you for a great write up so far, I look forward to reading more about your findings and conclusions.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

OK, back to the test. I made it back to the range today for another lightning round with the TRS1. The conditions made shooting a bit challenging. I was looking almost directly into the rising sun. I also had a full value right to left wind that would vary from 0 to around 12 mph; and the temp was hovering at 30 which is about 50 degrees cooler than when I zeroed the scope last Friday (you've gotta love Ohio weather).

First order of business was zero confirmation. After the various interruptions I had during my initial outing, I suspected a little fine tuning would be in order. I was right, and after adding .5 MOA to my elevation, and .25 right windage, I was ready to fire a box test. Other than one problem that I'll get to in a moment, today's test went very well. Better, in fact, than I expected. The TRS1 tracks quite well (at least within the 4 MOA range I was testing. Remember, it's a 300 yard system). The clicks seemed to be right at .25 MOA, and my final shot landed within 1/4" of the first. Both of those shots were within a 1" target at 100 yards. For the moment, at least, I'm feeling pretty good about tracking and returning to zero.

Now, here's where the problem came in. As I mentioned before, resetting the turrets to zero is a bit tedious. While attempting to do just that, I managed to change my elevation turret by 1/2 MOA. After the resetting ritual, I fired a zero confirmation shot, and was immediately aware of the deviation. At that point, I clicked 1/2 MOA of elevation back onto the scope and fired another shot. That one impacted dead center in the bullseye. Rather than try another reset of the knob, I just recorded the +2 clicks in my databook, and I'll start all future sight changes from there.

Now I'm certain that some of you will view this last point as an intolerable defect, and you would never field such a POS. I'm not ready to write off the TRS1 just yet. I see this more as getting to know my equipment (that was something we had to do a lot of back in the old days). I'll be aware of this problem, and I'll take it into consideration when I make my final decision regarding this scope.

So, the next stop for the TRS1 is Friday's Sniper team training. I'll let you know how it fares.

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Here are a couple of images I decided to put up quick. The top one is my first ever attempt at a "through the scope" photo. The tree in the image is at roughly 1000 yards. There is a fair amount of mirage coming off the field, that is the reason the image looks a little blurry (well, that and the fact I'm no photographer!). The scope is at 16X, and I wanted to post this to show that there is no "milky" wash to the image. Believe me, it looks better in person than it does through my lousy photo!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/img0136sl.jpg/

This one is just another view of my system.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/814/img0137pq.jpg/

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

Very nice. I'm sure that duracoat job cost a pretty penny! My lrs-1 will be here friday. I will share initial reports this weekend. I may set on my ar for a box and rtz test if i have time as i am breaking in the barrel of my new savage 110 300 win which i borescoped last night and looks very promising!
laugh.gif
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

I'm looking forward to learning your thoughts about the LRS. As for the duracoat job, it only cost me about $100 in currency, but it required quite a few hours of effort over several days!

HRF
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

I don't have the equipment room or artistic ability for that. I got quoted about a grand for a 3 tone camo on my ar15.
 
Re: Millett TRS1. The test begins...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SGT Ticklefight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have the equipment room or artistic ability for that. I got quoted about a grand for a 3 tone camo on my ar15. </div></div>
I'll do it for 899.95.... quick, send it to me before someone tells you different.