question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

[NoahbodyImportant]

I am working up some loads for 1,000 yards. Testing today at 600 yards using 42.5g Varget and 175SMK gave me a 2 inch group. I do not have access to a chronograph at this time. I am using LC brass trimmed to 2.0 and OAL of 2.800.

I have read that shooters loading 44.5g (or slightly more) of Varget and working well.

What are your experiences (and grains) loads using 175SMK for 1,000 yards?

Would I be good to go using 42.5 or should I continue to slowly increase my loads?

Much Appreciated.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

One of these days, I need to run some Varget & 175s thru mine just to have some base line reference info for these kind of questions...

Pretty much all my experience with these guns has been using 155s of some flavor... and my experience with 175s has been with either shorter barrels (20-26") or different powders (RE-15, 4064).

That said... if'n I were a betting man, I'd place good odds that load may be going a lot slower than it could be. For mid-range matches @ 300-600yd, not a huge deal if you are getting the accuracy you want. For long range... it may be an issue, maybe not.

Just out of curiosity... what were you using for come-ups from your short range zero (@ 100 or 300 yds) to 600? You should be able to get a ball-park figure for MV by twiddling the inputs in a ballistics program until things match up with your real world observations. Not real precise, but close enough to tell if you are going 2500 fps or 2700...

Monte

 

[turbo54]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

A friend has that rifle. We chronoed his old load of 42.x varget and 175smk @ 2755, ES was <span style="font-weight: bold"> 1 </span>. Next we trued some of my cartridges, which are 45.5 varget and 175smk. Chronoed 2906, ES was 5.

For a 308 @ 1000 yards, you want all the velocity you can get. My advice is to work UP.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

Noah,

Dont waste your time with 155s and 175s. Step right up to the Hornady 208AMAX (.649G1BC), Hornady 225gr HPBT(~.710 G1 BC).

These bullets launched at a meager 2500fps (from a 20" tube)have the same wind drift as the 175SMK launched at 2950fps or 155s at 3200fps. The elevation for the 208 AMAX required is more, however, for palma shooting, distances are fixed and doesnt move, so the point is moot.

With your 30" tube, you should be able to get the 208AMAX to 2700fps easy. You need a powder such as CFE223 or 2000MR. These powders will yield 70-100fps more than Varget, they are just as temp stable, and meter like water. RL-17 also provides top velocities, however, it is not very temp stable.

I do not own the specific rifle you have, but i am putting together a 26-28" barreled 308AR for Palma and 1,000yard matches.

When i get my build finished, i will be shooting 208s and 225s exclusively.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

I would be... a little cautious about that.

Lots of folks have gotten great results with 20-24" barrels and 208-210 gn bullets.

Not so many people seem to get satisfactory results (in terms of accuracy) from 28-30" barrels and the same bullets. Trading off accuracy for wind drift... it had better be one *hell* of a windy day before I'd make that call.

There are different theories out there as to exactly why, ranging from barrel harmonics (length vs. OCW) to throat dimensions, etc.

That said... I've seen at least one person get some pretty impressive velocities from the new Berger 230 Hybrids from a Savage 12 F/TR barrel - albeit one that had been throated so long you can't effectively shoot anything *less* than a 208 and reach the lands. Initial accuracy was still lacking, though. Another person I know of is using them with good results in matches so far - but again with a dedicated, purpose-built barrel chambered specifically for this kind of bullet, with a throat to match.

If you are just getting started in F/TR (or Palma)... I would *not* recommend putting all your hopes & dreams in a barrel/chamber/bullet config that may not end up being all you wished for. Shoot a 155, 175, 185, whatever, but stick to the beaten path - for now. Once you've worn out this barrel... *then* go nuts

YMMV,

Monte

 

[J-ROD]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

I am super green compared to the knowledge above but fwiw I have the same gun.
Your barrel is 12 twist so as mentioned, limit your bullet wt (length really) to the Berger 185btlr, word is their 185 hybrid is too long to use in a 12 twist. Just for grins, I have tried their 200gr hybrid which for sure a 11 twist is required, found a decent node at 43gr of Varget but am unsure how they would fly past my limited 250yds. My next barrel will be a 11 or 10 twist just so I can experiment with them.

You should be able to load your rounds a bit longer, my 185btlr are 2.906" (.015" jump, 2.2315" to ogive) and I went up to 45gr of Varget but 44.5-6 was more accurate, fps was 2810 at 45 and 2780 at 44.6. So you should work up your 175's. I am using win brass and fed primers btw.
I am also fooling with the berger 168 hybrids.

 

[turbo54]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

Bear in mind bullet stability is LEAST at the muzzle, and only improves with range. This is because linear velocity decays faster than angular velocity.

It the bullet is stable out to 250 yards, it'll be stable at 1000 too.

 

[Tpb10505]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

I have the Savage 12 Palma and while I didnt bring my chrono I shot 42rds with 44.5gr Varget as a standard without ever seeing any pressure signs under the 155 Berger Hybrid. You should have no problem finding an accurate load for that rifle, I cant think of a better deal on a target rifle! Goodluck

 

[J-ROD]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bear in mind bullet stability is LEAST at the muzzle, and only improves with range. This is because linear velocity decays faster than angular velocity.

It the bullet is stable out to 250 yards, it'll be stable at 1000 too.</div></div>

Well son of a gun, can't wait to get home to load some more up then. I got the 185's to 2935fps, accurately, according to my cheap chrony, i'll see what i can do with the 200's. Thanks!

 

[J-ROD]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

Ps i got better groups with ur gem scale than i did my old ohaus balance so thanks for the recommendation on that as well.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J--ROD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">got the 185's to 2935fps, accurately, according to my cheap chrony</div></div>

That... is pretty surprising velocity for that bullet out of a .308 Winchester. Shooting Chrony's have been known to a bit... optimistic, sometimes to the tune of 100-200 fps or more.

Then again... I've seen a 12 F/TR barrel (custom throated) punt Berger 215 hybrids out @ just over 2800fps, which I would never have believed if I hadn't seen it first hand. I still think something was fishy there (light angle, etc.) that may have skewed the results - and it was *my* chronograph!

If you can get the mid-weight bullets running that fast in reality i.e. with matching drop @ distance... you may be onto something!

 

[BillCh]

Re: question for Savage 12 F T/R owners .308 30in

I took my Savage 308 F/TR to the range for its last time a couple of weeks ago. I had 15 of my favorite loads left over to shoot out. 175 MK/43.1 RL-15/CCI BR-2/Lapua brass.

Chrono results were 2651 fps av., ES 11, SD 3.

While this has been a consistently accurate short range load for me I don't think it would make it to 1000 yds. The barrel having a few over 3000 rounds through it may have something to do with the low speeds. I've shot many with 44gr. to 45gr. of Varget too with no problems and some 155.5gr. Bergers with 47gr. I just like the powder-puff loads better. If I had to guess I'd say your MV was close to 2700 fps with 42.5 of Varget.

B