Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
lowlight:
I see no mention of the ZA rounds. Is Noel (or his shooter) signed up?
lowlight:
I see no mention of the ZA rounds. Is Noel (or his shooter) signed up?
- Thread starter Lowlight
- Start date
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Oscar,
Neither Jeff, nor I, will be attending.
It is regrettable, especially considering that another acoustic chronograph system will be available to cross check BC results from the previous field test. By the time Cory confirmed that the class was a go, it was too late for me to schedule a late appearance for accuracy testing.
Fortuitously, a doppler radar set has been made available for my use within the last couple of months, and I intend to carry the results from Gunsite into the next phase. There will be no wiggle room for disputing the BC data.
I also discovered today that a second rifle capable of shooting the ZA could be present to meet the "multiple rifle" criteria of accuracy validation.
If you would like to perform some more "research", and persuade a certain reluctant bullet manufacturer to make a showing, then you are invited to attend.
Best,
Noel
Oscar,
Neither Jeff, nor I, will be attending.
It is regrettable, especially considering that another acoustic chronograph system will be available to cross check BC results from the previous field test. By the time Cory confirmed that the class was a go, it was too late for me to schedule a late appearance for accuracy testing.
Fortuitously, a doppler radar set has been made available for my use within the last couple of months, and I intend to carry the results from Gunsite into the next phase. There will be no wiggle room for disputing the BC data.
I also discovered today that a second rifle capable of shooting the ZA could be present to meet the "multiple rifle" criteria of accuracy validation.
If you would like to perform some more "research", and persuade a certain reluctant bullet manufacturer to make a showing, then you are invited to attend.
Best,
Noel
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Looking forward to burning some powder, I'm bringing Hornady 285s loaded on Retumbo. Shooting a .338 LM. Flying out today and spending a night in Scottsdale, and will be at the Primrose Inn rest of the week. My wife is coming out and will be working hangun with Gunsite for a few days.
Everyone save travels and see you Monday!
Looking forward to burning some powder, I'm bringing Hornady 285s loaded on Retumbo. Shooting a .338 LM. Flying out today and spending a night in Scottsdale, and will be at the Primrose Inn rest of the week. My wife is coming out and will be working hangun with Gunsite for a few days.
Everyone save travels and see you Monday!
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Bringing the Snipetac for the test, not the class. Will have at least 300 Scenars and 300 SMKs.
Bringing the Snipetac for the test, not the class. Will have at least 300 Scenars and 300 SMKs.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
More ammo porn.
More ammo porn.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Mr. Carlson:
I was wondering why no mention of your "product". Suffice to say, from my standpoint (watching only for about the last year), <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">simply incredible! </span></span> You knew about the "schedule" probably before anyone outside of Hide staff and those actually planning the second "demo", and you didn't arrange your time... Give me a flippin break!!!
As you are VERY aware, this whole series of "demos" was to clear up the endless debates about YOUR "product" and what the REAL solid manufacturers were providing. You were represented at LV with a "product" which, AFTER the event and the results were published, you referred to as something like "last year’s/older" design. At least you had something then - albeit, NOT a “product” worth anyone changing a buying decision over. [I really need to stop giving you the benefit of the doubt and using the term “product” since by that I mean COMMERCIALLY available.]
I told Lowlight you were going to leave him in the lurch and sure enough...
We ALL know your 'show" will not end. At least it will be harder to convince Lowlight and others next time round.
In disgust, I remain,
Mr. Carlson:
I was wondering why no mention of your "product". Suffice to say, from my standpoint (watching only for about the last year), <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">simply incredible! </span></span> You knew about the "schedule" probably before anyone outside of Hide staff and those actually planning the second "demo", and you didn't arrange your time... Give me a flippin break!!!
As you are VERY aware, this whole series of "demos" was to clear up the endless debates about YOUR "product" and what the REAL solid manufacturers were providing. You were represented at LV with a "product" which, AFTER the event and the results were published, you referred to as something like "last year’s/older" design. At least you had something then - albeit, NOT a “product” worth anyone changing a buying decision over. [I really need to stop giving you the benefit of the doubt and using the term “product” since by that I mean COMMERCIALLY available.]
I told Lowlight you were going to leave him in the lurch and sure enough...
We ALL know your 'show" will not end. At least it will be harder to convince Lowlight and others next time round.
In disgust, I remain,
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Oscar,
If you follow the text of this thread, you will notice the final decision to hold the class was quite recent. It was not my call. I do not believe that Frank, or anyone else considers it a waste of time to continue in my absence... with the possible exception of you (flattery will get you nowhere).
You have an opportunity to attend a follow-up BC evaluation going well beyond 1,500 yards, and with instrumentation that has not been available to us thus far. What is more, you finally received a direct *invitation*.
Make yourself useful, and make some phone calls. As an aside, I think that you are on the precipice of making an ass out of yourself.
Oscar,
If you follow the text of this thread, you will notice the final decision to hold the class was quite recent. It was not my call. I do not believe that Frank, or anyone else considers it a waste of time to continue in my absence... with the possible exception of you (flattery will get you nowhere).
You have an opportunity to attend a follow-up BC evaluation going well beyond 1,500 yards, and with instrumentation that has not been available to us thus far. What is more, you finally received a direct *invitation*.
Make yourself useful, and make some phone calls. As an aside, I think that you are on the precipice of making an ass out of yourself.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
ELR you need to stop,
I wasn't left in the lurch and in fact I have one of the gain twist barrels at GAP right now specifically to shoot Noel's bullets. The barrel hasn't been finished as of yet, but it is being specifically fitted to my AWSM so I can shoot Noel's stuff and continue the testing part as necessary. Unfortunately because of the AWSM Action it has to be turned down quite a bit to work.
The changes that happened in this part of the test are actually due in part to the fact we are incorporating it in a class at Gunsite. The last time was pretty basic and cost nobody nothing but the trip to LV, this one requires we pay Gunsite for the range and the time of the instructors, to which we agreed. The facility is not hosting this at zero cost, so that changed an aspect of the "testing" and availability of many of the players who attended LV. Also Gunsite is bringing in some top notch people to support the shoot, so what we have is exactly what we were looking for.
You, Gerard, et al, in that clique don't' seem to understand this was not designed to support one product or manufacturers and I have been in direct contact with others included in this test to get the maximum out of what is available. This was never about Noel or his bullets, but about any 338 round we can get our hands on...
As with GSC, I have two boxes of their bullets I could have easily loaded and shot but with the need to have a twist nobody uses, it's not worth the crying and headache of hearing them scream foul, so I am leaving them on the shelf. I see no reason to make "another" special purpose barrel as I am doing with Noel, so if those bullets will work with the Gain Twist in a similar manner to Noel's maybe I will fling a few of them downrange, but as of now it would require me changing the spec's on the cut to work... not happening, and everything else is 9.5 or better in the twist department so as you pointed out, waste of time.
When the barrel is done and mounted and I will shoot Noel's stuff but until the barrel is ready, it's a waste of our time shooting them in standard twist rifles. I am not spending my personal dime to waste his time, my time and all of your time, it would be the same as wasting it with GSC. which is even worse given the bickering and lack of support. Not to mention the whining via email I get.
ELR you need to stop,
I wasn't left in the lurch and in fact I have one of the gain twist barrels at GAP right now specifically to shoot Noel's bullets. The barrel hasn't been finished as of yet, but it is being specifically fitted to my AWSM so I can shoot Noel's stuff and continue the testing part as necessary. Unfortunately because of the AWSM Action it has to be turned down quite a bit to work.
The changes that happened in this part of the test are actually due in part to the fact we are incorporating it in a class at Gunsite. The last time was pretty basic and cost nobody nothing but the trip to LV, this one requires we pay Gunsite for the range and the time of the instructors, to which we agreed. The facility is not hosting this at zero cost, so that changed an aspect of the "testing" and availability of many of the players who attended LV. Also Gunsite is bringing in some top notch people to support the shoot, so what we have is exactly what we were looking for.
You, Gerard, et al, in that clique don't' seem to understand this was not designed to support one product or manufacturers and I have been in direct contact with others included in this test to get the maximum out of what is available. This was never about Noel or his bullets, but about any 338 round we can get our hands on...
As with GSC, I have two boxes of their bullets I could have easily loaded and shot but with the need to have a twist nobody uses, it's not worth the crying and headache of hearing them scream foul, so I am leaving them on the shelf. I see no reason to make "another" special purpose barrel as I am doing with Noel, so if those bullets will work with the Gain Twist in a similar manner to Noel's maybe I will fling a few of them downrange, but as of now it would require me changing the spec's on the cut to work... not happening, and everything else is 9.5 or better in the twist department so as you pointed out, waste of time.
When the barrel is done and mounted and I will shoot Noel's stuff but until the barrel is ready, it's a waste of our time shooting them in standard twist rifles. I am not spending my personal dime to waste his time, my time and all of your time, it would be the same as wasting it with GSC. which is even worse given the bickering and lack of support. Not to mention the whining via email I get.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Lowlight:
Thanks for taking the time to write regarding my post. As I think was clear, it was NOT in any way focused at you or the crew that has signed up to attend the class and shoot.
That said...
You are welcome to PM me or post here, but PLEASE respond to two questions.
1. IN THE BEGINNING, was it NOT because GSC, Mr. Carlson, and Scorpion were endlessly "debating" the merits of their various designs that the FIRST round was arranged?
2. Frankly, please, if there had been no first round, would there have been a second round (with all the associated out-of-pocket costs to the shooters and the tech crew)?
I'm pleased (wrong word considering...) to learn of your commitment to testing using a barrel specifically configured to shoot Mr. Carlson's projectile. I suspect many would love to have the resources to afford such an experiment. Count me one of them.
Hopefully what I have just written will not get me pitched off the site (again). If you feel it will, PLEASE delete it, and leave my access in tact.
As it has turned out, I am sure all who attend will enjoy the learning experience, the fun, and the company. Wish I had the resources to join you. Send 'em!
Lowlight:
Thanks for taking the time to write regarding my post. As I think was clear, it was NOT in any way focused at you or the crew that has signed up to attend the class and shoot.
That said...
You are welcome to PM me or post here, but PLEASE respond to two questions.
1. IN THE BEGINNING, was it NOT because GSC, Mr. Carlson, and Scorpion were endlessly "debating" the merits of their various designs that the FIRST round was arranged?
2. Frankly, please, if there had been no first round, would there have been a second round (with all the associated out-of-pocket costs to the shooters and the tech crew)?
I'm pleased (wrong word considering...) to learn of your commitment to testing using a barrel specifically configured to shoot Mr. Carlson's projectile. I suspect many would love to have the resources to afford such an experiment. Count me one of them.
Hopefully what I have just written will not get me pitched off the site (again). If you feel it will, PLEASE delete it, and leave my access in tact.
As it has turned out, I am sure all who attend will enjoy the learning experience, the fun, and the company. Wish I had the resources to join you. Send 'em!
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Let me say this and I will try to be clear,
You are everybit the problem as anyone you mentioned and possibly more so because you are picking a side in the guise of being independent. You came in here uninvited and by your own admission, not participating or assisting the process in any meaningful way. You are creating more doubt and conflict. Purposely I am sure.
Dont you think that because I am having a special purpose barrel built that if everything was ready on my end, Noel's bullets would be listed? I don't care if he only got me 5 I would have shot them, just because.
Yes, this started because of the battles between Noel, Gerard, and the other guy. That everyone was so sick and tired of the petty bickering with nothing to show for it but a bunch of last year's designs that couldn't be used because they were wrong. But once I got involved we expanded the scope and many other companies have stepped up to support us, so those guys are a secondary consideration especially considering they both require custom twist barrels, which are too expensive to noodle around with, but here I am doing it. Just like I stated several times before. If Gerard wasn't such a dick, I would have easily spent my own money to get a custom twist barrel for his stuff too, trust me, I can have one made with little effort or issue. If the support was there I would make sure the barrel was, but immediately, like you he went into attack mode.
There are plenty of bullet makers who want the attention and the support to verify as much as humanly possible. It's not cheap or easy for people to make these kinds of buying decisions when it comes to XLR. So the fact we can do it, and we can try to hold the winds back for people, we said yes. Again, I have explained this but people want to turn this into the ZA / GSC sideshow.
I will give you an example, I have spoken with Stephen from Dynamic Research, his solids did not have stellar numbers the first go. But he didn't get pissy, no, he got interested and wanted to see how he could help flush out the data. That is what we are doing. If I only focused this week on getting the best information possible for the Predator Solids, I would not consider it a wasted week. My stated goal from the beginning was to help cut through the BS and give the reader rock solid data. No agendas, just results. You on the other hand want to disrupt and derail just like GSC. Maybe you need to find a new group of friends to hang around you might get more accomplished.
I agreed to the first round because I have a genuine interest in seeing this progress, no other reason, I use the bullet and I am a fan. The site gives me resources others don't have and this is why this site is successful, because I do exactly this kind of stuff for the right reasons. There is a clue there.
Next you have questions and want to start a fuss, or re-ignite a fire, try PM'ing me first, you'll last longer on here, right now your site life expectancy just got cut in half.
Let me say this and I will try to be clear,
You are everybit the problem as anyone you mentioned and possibly more so because you are picking a side in the guise of being independent. You came in here uninvited and by your own admission, not participating or assisting the process in any meaningful way. You are creating more doubt and conflict. Purposely I am sure.
Dont you think that because I am having a special purpose barrel built that if everything was ready on my end, Noel's bullets would be listed? I don't care if he only got me 5 I would have shot them, just because.
Yes, this started because of the battles between Noel, Gerard, and the other guy. That everyone was so sick and tired of the petty bickering with nothing to show for it but a bunch of last year's designs that couldn't be used because they were wrong. But once I got involved we expanded the scope and many other companies have stepped up to support us, so those guys are a secondary consideration especially considering they both require custom twist barrels, which are too expensive to noodle around with, but here I am doing it. Just like I stated several times before. If Gerard wasn't such a dick, I would have easily spent my own money to get a custom twist barrel for his stuff too, trust me, I can have one made with little effort or issue. If the support was there I would make sure the barrel was, but immediately, like you he went into attack mode.
There are plenty of bullet makers who want the attention and the support to verify as much as humanly possible. It's not cheap or easy for people to make these kinds of buying decisions when it comes to XLR. So the fact we can do it, and we can try to hold the winds back for people, we said yes. Again, I have explained this but people want to turn this into the ZA / GSC sideshow.
I will give you an example, I have spoken with Stephen from Dynamic Research, his solids did not have stellar numbers the first go. But he didn't get pissy, no, he got interested and wanted to see how he could help flush out the data. That is what we are doing. If I only focused this week on getting the best information possible for the Predator Solids, I would not consider it a wasted week. My stated goal from the beginning was to help cut through the BS and give the reader rock solid data. No agendas, just results. You on the other hand want to disrupt and derail just like GSC. Maybe you need to find a new group of friends to hang around you might get more accomplished.
I agreed to the first round because I have a genuine interest in seeing this progress, no other reason, I use the bullet and I am a fan. The site gives me resources others don't have and this is why this site is successful, because I do exactly this kind of stuff for the right reasons. There is a clue there.
Next you have questions and want to start a fuss, or re-ignite a fire, try PM'ing me first, you'll last longer on here, right now your site life expectancy just got cut in half.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
PM coming shortly.
PM coming shortly.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
ready to go...
ready to go...
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypertex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ready to go...
</div></div>
Hi hypertex,
Which cartridges are your ELR rigs built off of ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypertex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ready to go...
Hi hypertex,
Which cartridges are your ELR rigs built off of ?
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypertex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>
That's some long range loving there! Good shooting for your testing this week.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypertex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's some long range loving there! Good shooting for your testing this week.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
At the primrose #6
Greg
At the primrose #6
Greg
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Curt is there too at the luxury cottage, I am at the Days inn.
Curt is there too at the luxury cottage, I am at the Days inn.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Cell is 928-201-***** if anyone wants to do breakfast before rolling. It's 20 min out there from here.
Greg
Cell is 928-201-***** if anyone wants to do breakfast before rolling. It's 20 min out there from here.
Greg
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Awesome Class so far, we are getting some solid data and we haven't even started the test yet.
I have been shooting the Predator Solids loaded from SouthWest Ammo and they are working out great. The BC is differing at distance and under use than what we recorded with the acoustic test is LV so it will be interesting to see when we get to the test where it all flushes out. Out of my AI AWSM it is reading at .650 with a muzzle velocity of 3115fps... so this definitely helps jive the solids with reality.
Saw first hand today why an iPhone Apps is not to be compared to a dedicated program as I was running both Bullet Flight and FFS side by side today when Bulletflight decided on its own to take a left turn. I calibrated all the software in the morning, it was trending perfect with some subtle differences but minimal, then ... Come back from Lunch and using the iPhone App to 1500m it decided to start shorting me 1 mil in elevation completely going FUBAR on me requiring a complete rework of the data. Numbers from morning to afternoon suddenly changed, yet FFS remained rock solid out to 1980m... I guess you really do get what you pay for... Funny, Bulletflight gave me first round hits at 600m, 1000m, 1200m, and then just went south after asking it to resolve 1500m. Then all the numbers were completely off... start over, and in a different way. Hmmm.
Tomorrow is UKD day and then Thursday & Friday the testing.
Awesome Class so far, we are getting some solid data and we haven't even started the test yet.
I have been shooting the Predator Solids loaded from SouthWest Ammo and they are working out great. The BC is differing at distance and under use than what we recorded with the acoustic test is LV so it will be interesting to see when we get to the test where it all flushes out. Out of my AI AWSM it is reading at .650 with a muzzle velocity of 3115fps... so this definitely helps jive the solids with reality.
Saw first hand today why an iPhone Apps is not to be compared to a dedicated program as I was running both Bullet Flight and FFS side by side today when Bulletflight decided on its own to take a left turn. I calibrated all the software in the morning, it was trending perfect with some subtle differences but minimal, then ... Come back from Lunch and using the iPhone App to 1500m it decided to start shorting me 1 mil in elevation completely going FUBAR on me requiring a complete rework of the data. Numbers from morning to afternoon suddenly changed, yet FFS remained rock solid out to 1980m... I guess you really do get what you pay for... Funny, Bulletflight gave me first round hits at 600m, 1000m, 1200m, and then just went south after asking it to resolve 1500m. Then all the numbers were completely off... start over, and in a different way. Hmmm.
Tomorrow is UKD day and then Thursday & Friday the testing.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
there's no reason why an iphone app is any less or more accurate than something running on a dedicated PC next to you. FFS could as easily run on an iPhone. They have amazing amounts of compute resources.
there's no reason why an iphone app is any less or more accurate than something running on a dedicated PC next to you. FFS could as easily run on an iPhone. They have amazing amounts of compute resources.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Frank,
Am I correct in assuming that the Predators which you are shooting were made from the same alloy as those tested previously?
What is the range, and spacing, of your two most distant microphones?
Frank,
Am I correct in assuming that the Predators which you are shooting were made from the same alloy as those tested previously?
What is the range, and spacing, of your two most distant microphones?
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Noel, they are the same, we are not testing just shooting now, the test is Thursday and Friday. This is derived from chronographing at the muzzle combined with actual drop shot for yaccuracy at distance.
The iPhone was working straight and true, once I crossed the 1500m mark the numbers were all different and off by at least a full mil, of which I can't find the reason. It's not computing power it's the reliability of the system, at as of now. It went from working straight and true to totally fucked simply by moving from 1200m to 1500m. As of now I have no answers just questions and the statement it all went wrong.
Ps, to add the numbers in the iPhone all went south including the shorter ranges, the whole profile no longer tracks with actual after be calibrated and witnessed as true on target. Not a single range matches any more. It flipped a switch and deviated hard.
Noel, they are the same, we are not testing just shooting now, the test is Thursday and Friday. This is derived from chronographing at the muzzle combined with actual drop shot for yaccuracy at distance.
The iPhone was working straight and true, once I crossed the 1500m mark the numbers were all different and off by at least a full mil, of which I can't find the reason. It's not computing power it's the reliability of the system, at as of now. It went from working straight and true to totally fucked simply by moving from 1200m to 1500m. As of now I have no answers just questions and the statement it all went wrong.
Ps, to add the numbers in the iPhone all went south including the shorter ranges, the whole profile no longer tracks with actual after be calibrated and witnessed as true on target. Not a single range matches any more. It flipped a switch and deviated hard.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Thanks for the update Frank.
Interesting on the iphone issue. You definitely got corrupted inputs going on. Glad to hear FFS picked up the slack for you.
Jeffvn
Thanks for the update Frank.
Interesting on the iphone issue. You definitely got corrupted inputs going on. Glad to hear FFS picked up the slack for you.
Jeffvn
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hi hypertex,
Which cartridges are your ELR rigs built off of ? </div></div>
Big guy is a Lawton 338 Snipetac, lil brother is a Tac338 in 300 Norma
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hi hypertex,
Which cartridges are your ELR rigs built off of ? </div></div>
Big guy is a Lawton 338 Snipetac, lil brother is a Tac338 in 300 Norma
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...
Saw first hand today why an iPhone Apps is not to be compared to a dedicated program as I was running both Bullet Flight and FFS side by side today when Bulletflight decided on its own to take a left turn. I calibrated all the software in the morning, it was trending perfect with some subtle differences but minimal, then ... Come back from Lunch and using the iPhone App to 1500m it decided to start shorting me 1 mil in elevation completely going FUBAR on me requiring a complete rework of the data. Numbers from morning to afternoon suddenly changed, yet FFS remained rock solid out to 1980m... I guess you really do get what you pay for... Funny, Bulletflight gave me first round hits at 600m, 1000m, 1200m, and then just went south after asking it to resolve 1500m. Then all the numbers were completely off... start over, and in a different way. Hmmm.
Tomorrow is UKD day and then Thursday & Friday the testing. </div></div>
Happened to me too on UKD day! One whole mil off for some reason or other. No other changes of note.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...
Saw first hand today why an iPhone Apps is not to be compared to a dedicated program as I was running both Bullet Flight and FFS side by side today when Bulletflight decided on its own to take a left turn. I calibrated all the software in the morning, it was trending perfect with some subtle differences but minimal, then ... Come back from Lunch and using the iPhone App to 1500m it decided to start shorting me 1 mil in elevation completely going FUBAR on me requiring a complete rework of the data. Numbers from morning to afternoon suddenly changed, yet FFS remained rock solid out to 1980m... I guess you really do get what you pay for... Funny, Bulletflight gave me first round hits at 600m, 1000m, 1200m, and then just went south after asking it to resolve 1500m. Then all the numbers were completely off... start over, and in a different way. Hmmm.
Tomorrow is UKD day and then Thursday & Friday the testing. </div></div>
Happened to me too on UKD day! One whole mil off for some reason or other. No other changes of note.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Frank,
The i-phone apps seem to do some strange thingsand are not that stable from what I have seen.
I shot with some fellas that both had the same app and it gave different solution with the same inputs even after a thorough inspection by a number of very experienced LR shooters.
The Android app "shooter:" seems very stable and reliable.
A validated, printed drop chart is a good quick referance that is handy when double checking the output from these sort of programs. I use the program to fine tune the result given the conditions at the time.
Frank,
The i-phone apps seem to do some strange thingsand are not that stable from what I have seen.
I shot with some fellas that both had the same app and it gave different solution with the same inputs even after a thorough inspection by a number of very experienced LR shooters.
The Android app "shooter:" seems very stable and reliable.
A validated, printed drop chart is a good quick referance that is handy when double checking the output from these sort of programs. I use the program to fine tune the result given the conditions at the time.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
What an awesome class !
Packing right now but wanted to say THANKS to CoryT and Gunsite for hosting an awesome week.
I think we all learned something, and took home some valuable lessons. Cory ordered up some excellent weather, I mean really excellent conditions couldn't have been better for what we did and what we wanted to accomplish.
I have a metric ton of data to pour through, but first I have to get back to Denver... so don't expect a lot of details until Monday... bring your popcorn you won't be disappointed.
What an awesome class !
Packing right now but wanted to say THANKS to CoryT and Gunsite for hosting an awesome week.
I think we all learned something, and took home some valuable lessons. Cory ordered up some excellent weather, I mean really excellent conditions couldn't have been better for what we did and what we wanted to accomplish.
I have a metric ton of data to pour through, but first I have to get back to Denver... so don't expect a lot of details until Monday... bring your popcorn you won't be disappointed.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Get a J.O.B., Lowlight!!! LOL
Thanks for the dedication on your behalf, though... ;-]]
Get a J.O.B., Lowlight!!! LOL
Thanks for the dedication on your behalf, though... ;-]]
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
I would like to say thanks to you and your classmates, it was a fine week, everyone worked hard and got some great results. The weather was actually due to the Barn staff who also make up all the fine target systems we use, Ron takes requests and in this case came through in spades.
I'll leave the suspense in place, but the data will be, interesting, at least for some.
Keep your calenders open for October, while we plan another even better session!
I would like to say thanks to you and your classmates, it was a fine week, everyone worked hard and got some great results. The weather was actually due to the Barn staff who also make up all the fine target systems we use, Ron takes requests and in this case came through in spades.
I'll leave the suspense in place, but the data will be, interesting, at least for some.
Keep your calenders open for October, while we plan another even better session!
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Any time I've had trouble with the Shooter app, I could trace it back to an error in my input.
Any time I've had trouble with the Shooter app, I could trace it back to an error in my input.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
I will say this. If anyone that is following this thread is questioning if it worth taking any class not just this class from Gunsite, don't. All the staff there are exceedingly friendly and helpful. And will make any shooter a better shooter. As I already said, I'm green at XLR shooting and Cory was exceedingly patient and helpful in correcting my mistakes.
And if you think you wanted to go this time and had doubts about going. Know this the next class will fill up fast as word spreads about how good it was. And it will be limited to how many can attend.
I'm saying now, I'm in the for the fall class.
I will say this. If anyone that is following this thread is questioning if it worth taking any class not just this class from Gunsite, don't. All the staff there are exceedingly friendly and helpful. And will make any shooter a better shooter. As I already said, I'm green at XLR shooting and Cory was exceedingly patient and helpful in correcting my mistakes.
And if you think you wanted to go this time and had doubts about going. Know this the next class will fill up fast as word spreads about how good it was. And it will be limited to how many can attend.
I'm saying now, I'm in the for the fall class.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CTressler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any time I've had trouble with the Shooter app, I could trace it back to an error in my input.</div></div>
Inputs had nothing to do with it. We ran FFS alongside, the programs errored moving to 1500m we changed nothing but the range and 2 people shooting two different rifles, not sharing input data saw it deviate by 1 mil. Not until we reached 1500m did the error happen, and even after resetting the profile to make sure it was right it errored again.
Glad shooter works for you but beyond 1200m we saw problems, more than once by two different users with two different profiles. Meanwhile mirroring the data with FFS meant a 1st round hit and not a one mil error.
Great your mileage varies but have you shot it at extended distances on a real target ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CTressler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any time I've had trouble with the Shooter app, I could trace it back to an error in my input.</div></div>
Inputs had nothing to do with it. We ran FFS alongside, the programs errored moving to 1500m we changed nothing but the range and 2 people shooting two different rifles, not sharing input data saw it deviate by 1 mil. Not until we reached 1500m did the error happen, and even after resetting the profile to make sure it was right it errored again.
Glad shooter works for you but beyond 1200m we saw problems, more than once by two different users with two different profiles. Meanwhile mirroring the data with FFS meant a 1st round hit and not a one mil error.
Great your mileage varies but have you shot it at extended distances on a real target ?
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Inputs had nothing to do with it. We ran FFS alongside, the programs errored moving to 1500m we changed nothing but the range and 2 people shooting two different rifles, not sharing input data saw it deviate by 1 mil. Not until we reached 1500m did the error happen, and even after resetting the profile to make sure it was right it errored again.
Glad shooter works for you but beyond 1200m we saw problems, more than once by two different users with two different profiles. Meanwhile mirroring the data with FFS meant a 1st round hit and not a one mil error.
Great your mileage varies but have you shot it at extended distances on a real target ? </div></div>
I still suspect that the error was introduced by the internal calculations in the app only working out to e.g. two significant digits. As the range increased, that error was not noticeable until in excess of 1000m. After that, the cumulative effect of the rounding, truncating, mod or whatever method the app uses becomes a significant number.
Hopefully a statistician or math guru can chime in and confirm this...or just tell me to take a walk
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Inputs had nothing to do with it. We ran FFS alongside, the programs errored moving to 1500m we changed nothing but the range and 2 people shooting two different rifles, not sharing input data saw it deviate by 1 mil. Not until we reached 1500m did the error happen, and even after resetting the profile to make sure it was right it errored again.
Glad shooter works for you but beyond 1200m we saw problems, more than once by two different users with two different profiles. Meanwhile mirroring the data with FFS meant a 1st round hit and not a one mil error.
Great your mileage varies but have you shot it at extended distances on a real target ? </div></div>
I still suspect that the error was introduced by the internal calculations in the app only working out to e.g. two significant digits. As the range increased, that error was not noticeable until in excess of 1000m. After that, the cumulative effect of the rounding, truncating, mod or whatever method the app uses becomes a significant number.
Hopefully a statistician or math guru can chime in and confirm this...or just tell me to take a walk
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
IF I missed this discussion I apologize.
I understand the iphone app struggled beyond 1,500 meters, but FFP did fine.
Did you also run the Droid based "Shooter" application or Patagonia or Exbal as well?
I have Shooter, Exbal, and FFP I have only used Shooter beyond 1,800 yards. I have not used Exbal or FFP since getting Shooter - its works very well for all my rifles.
Jeffvn
IF I missed this discussion I apologize.
I understand the iphone app struggled beyond 1,500 meters, but FFP did fine.
Did you also run the Droid based "Shooter" application or Patagonia or Exbal as well?
I have Shooter, Exbal, and FFP I have only used Shooter beyond 1,800 yards. I have not used Exbal or FFP since getting Shooter - its works very well for all my rifles.
Jeffvn
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Maybe this tangent we're on deserves its own topic?
Maybe this tangent we're on deserves its own topic?
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
I just got back to the east coast, what a week! Cory and crew I want to thank you for all you put into this, I am walking away with solid numbers in my FFS program for my load in my .338. From the first day getting 600m, 1000m & 1500m, my program hammered the rest of the week. Confidence in my FFS program and rifle are 100% now. Frank (aka Stormy) as always, you make me laugh, enjoyed shooting with you again. We all helped each other out during the week I know I am walking away better for it, Cory you sir have a knowledge base I have seen few others have and even fewer who share it as well as you do.
As far as the test results, have enough popcorn ready. I’ll post more soon.
I just got back to the east coast, what a week! Cory and crew I want to thank you for all you put into this, I am walking away with solid numbers in my FFS program for my load in my .338. From the first day getting 600m, 1000m & 1500m, my program hammered the rest of the week. Confidence in my FFS program and rifle are 100% now. Frank (aka Stormy) as always, you make me laugh, enjoyed shooting with you again. We all helped each other out during the week I know I am walking away better for it, Cory you sir have a knowledge base I have seen few others have and even fewer who share it as well as you do.
As far as the test results, have enough popcorn ready. I’ll post more soon.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Thanks you for the kind words sir, I really enjoyed the class my own self.
Just for the record, having the program give you a good number is one thing, you still have to do the actual shooting. Well done sir, I for sure want you on the wall with me when the Mongol hordes make their charge.
Thanks you for the kind words sir, I really enjoyed the class my own self.
Just for the record, having the program give you a good number is one thing, you still have to do the actual shooting. Well done sir, I for sure want you on the wall with me when the Mongol hordes make their charge.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
What optics and reticles did the best during your class. What was the flip side as far as optics that failed to stand up to the task?
What optics and reticles did the best during your class. What was the flip side as far as optics that failed to stand up to the task?
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Scope calibration is a big part of the XLR course, so we did see some issues there.
Part of the popcorn, so I will let the owners comment on their problems.
Scope calibration is a big part of the XLR course, so we did see some issues there.
Part of the popcorn, so I will let the owners comment on their problems.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
To Cory . The 6 foot tall papa smurf . Thank you for your time a help. Your teaching style is a breath of fresh air .
Your ELR class is a great page to add to my training books and will be back again. Now I have to build another rifle thanks to your wife banging out 5 "0" deveation hits @ 1500 yards suppressed with the first 5 shots. Just like Curt , I don't mind having a woman beat me .
I have never done a scope calibration before and boy did I learn something . My USO tracks @.97% of turret value . did I ever really give 2 shits ? Not at all . That's because at up to 1K yards , I personaly nevercould shoot the error. Now when you took us to 1980 meters , damn does that error make a diferance big time .
Thanks againg to you and Stormy for setting this up . What a great group we had to help each other. Even when Corky showed his head , we all laughed it off , had a good time and gave him his pudding cup .
To Cory . The 6 foot tall papa smurf . Thank you for your time a help. Your teaching style is a breath of fresh air .
Your ELR class is a great page to add to my training books and will be back again. Now I have to build another rifle thanks to your wife banging out 5 "0" deveation hits @ 1500 yards suppressed with the first 5 shots. Just like Curt , I don't mind having a woman beat me .
I have never done a scope calibration before and boy did I learn something . My USO tracks @.97% of turret value . did I ever really give 2 shits ? Not at all . That's because at up to 1K yards , I personaly nevercould shoot the error. Now when you took us to 1980 meters , damn does that error make a diferance big time .
Thanks againg to you and Stormy for setting this up . What a great group we had to help each other. Even when Corky showed his head , we all laughed it off , had a good time and gave him his pudding cup .
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
The ELR class was exceptional. The expertise communicated to the student was clear and concise; a real credit to Gunsite's choice of instructor : Cory. Some topics were quite complex, but through concise, methodical presentation, the knowledge was presented and absorbed by the student. I am not saying that there is no homework to be done after the class has concluded. There is plenty to reflect upon and revisit.
Cory and Mike, thanks for the unique opportunity to study this subject. Gunsite is privileged to have your talent to draw upon. If anyone is considering taking a structured course in firearms, you would be amiss not to opt to take it at Gunsite.
The setting was further enhanced by the sincerity and professionalism of my fellow students. It is too rare an occasion to meet such quality people. I thank you for stepping up and traveling so far to take this course alongside of me. I hope that the memories we have of this last week will last and provide us a long lasting friendship.
So what are you all waiting for? Sign up!
The ELR class was exceptional. The expertise communicated to the student was clear and concise; a real credit to Gunsite's choice of instructor : Cory. Some topics were quite complex, but through concise, methodical presentation, the knowledge was presented and absorbed by the student. I am not saying that there is no homework to be done after the class has concluded. There is plenty to reflect upon and revisit.
Cory and Mike, thanks for the unique opportunity to study this subject. Gunsite is privileged to have your talent to draw upon. If anyone is considering taking a structured course in firearms, you would be amiss not to opt to take it at Gunsite.
The setting was further enhanced by the sincerity and professionalism of my fellow students. It is too rare an occasion to meet such quality people. I thank you for stepping up and traveling so far to take this course alongside of me. I hope that the memories we have of this last week will last and provide us a long lasting friendship.
So what are you all waiting for? Sign up!
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Thanks to all that perticipated. I wish I could have been there but I just could not make it. I am glad the class had a good time and learned alot. Keep up with the data, ELR shooting is a parshiable skill, and must be praticed to maintain. Also, pass on what you have learned, this is the best way to help each other get better. Steve
Thanks to all that perticipated. I wish I could have been there but I just could not make it. I am glad the class had a good time and learned alot. Keep up with the data, ELR shooting is a parshiable skill, and must be praticed to maintain. Also, pass on what you have learned, this is the best way to help each other get better. Steve
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Ok, lets look to do 4 days in October, 15-18. We'll make the couple of modifications to the program, such as paper target calibrations. I'm working the video angle now. Any ojections to these dates?
Ok, lets look to do 4 days in October, 15-18. We'll make the couple of modifications to the program, such as paper target calibrations. I'm working the video angle now. Any ojections to these dates?
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Those dates should work for me, let me check the schedule
Those dates should work for me, let me check the schedule
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
I'm good, too.
I'm good, too.
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
How did you guys brace the rifles when you did the scope calibration?
How did you guys brace the rifles when you did the scope calibration?
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did you guys brace the rifles when you did the scope calibration?</div></div>
Very Carefully
Downrange was the barber pole
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did you guys brace the rifles when you did the scope calibration?</div></div>
Very Carefully
Downrange was the barber pole
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
Thanks for the pics, I need a better rest to do mine.
You guys goto 60" or more for the test?
I thought that's what coryt told me to goto
Thanks for the pics, I need a better rest to do mine.
You guys goto 60" or more for the test?
I thought that's what coryt told me to goto
Re: 338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did you guys brace the rifles when you did the scope calibration?</div></div>
Very Carefully
........
Downrange was the barber pole </div></div>
Holy **** - you really put it into that contraption...?!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did you guys brace the rifles when you did the scope calibration?</div></div>
Very Carefully
........
Downrange was the barber pole </div></div>
Holy **** - you really put it into that contraption...?!
