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Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

MclovinthatMosin

MclovinthatMosin

Private
Minuteman
Mar 30, 2012
14
0
35
NC
Hi all, I'm new here and just got started in the world of long range shooting. When I shot my soda bottle filled with water at 150 yards I was hooked! The gun I've been using is a 1942 Izzy 91/30 Mosin that I bought from a local gun store for $100. Only modification I've done is an ATI stock and I removed the rear sights and added a Leatherwood Hi-Lux 2-7x32 Long eye relief scope. After about an hour of dremmeling I finally got my Mosin to cycle through all five rounds without binding up but I've been having trouble getting the bolt to lock down when I have a bullet in the chamber. I can get it down everytime but I have to slap the crap out of it. When the chambers clear the action moves like butter. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

Buy a head space gauge or try different ammo, assuming you cleaned the living crap out of it first...
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

Its def clean, Windex followed by hoppes 9 all on a .30 caliber bore snake then I finish with Rem oil. I use the corrosive surplus stuff because all the other bullets are $12-20 for 20 rounds. I clean it very thoroughly after every trip to the range.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

I meant disassembleing the bolt and cleaning it, but if that's done I'd try different ammo for a few rounds while your headspace gauge is on order.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

More than likely your extractor is bent a tad or needs to be polished(has burrs). It should slip over the rimmed case as you close the bolt. Sounds like its binding or dragging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GyPcUgTtXo

Notice, he is using a stone, not a file. You don't want to go crazy with a file or sanding the extractor.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

I have the tear drop tool that comes with mosins, is that the same thing as a headspace gauge? It has the little notches to measure the firing pin. I've attempted to take the bolt apart and it was a nightmare..i can get it apart but its hard as hell to get it back together.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

If there are no signs of corrosion when you break down the bolt, I don't know what to tell you. Time to see the gun smith.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

+1 on the headspacing or the rim thickness of the ammo you use.

What did you have to do to the rifle to fit the scope or stock? Any drilling/tapping on the receiver.

Have you tried it with anu dummy/action test rounds or different types of ammo??
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

That tool you are referring to set the firing pin protrusion. As stated above the headspace is based on the rim. So if you truly have a headspace problem you can buy a few bolt heads and try them.

If you take the receiver out of the stock, do you still have an issue cycling the bolt?
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

If it's happening with a "cold" rifle, it's most likely mechanical, and I suspect it's the crappy fit you already indicated you had with the ATI stock.

Make sure nothing is binding. The extractor on the left side of the receiver needs plenty of room (play) to operate properly, it may be binding. Be sure you have enough relief cut for the bolt into the side of the stock.

EDIT: I see Roggom already suggested the following...

Simple question to rule out the stock- when the action is removed from the stock, and you chamber a round (do this CAREFULLY!)- does the bolt still fail to lock down? If it operates properly, you know the problem is still with the stock fitment.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

The extractor on the end of the bolt never comes in contact with the stock. I can see stock fitment interfering with the interrupter but I don't see how it would affect the extractor sliding nicely over the rim of the bullet. I did some sanding on the extractor lip and it helped a little bit.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

The fitment and the extractor are two separate troubleshooting scenarios. ATI stocks are infamous for crappy fits, they come warped and are a pain to inlet. If it cycles fine outside of the stock, then you have a binding issue. If it cycles the same inside or outside the stock, then it is more than likely a bent or burred extractor.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

First thing you need to understand is a Mosin was NOT made to have a round dropped into the chamber an then close the bolt. If you do, You found out what you have to do to get it to close. It is meant to feed ONLY from the magazine. If you keep doing what you are doing, you are going to break the extractor.

Do a little reading and try to understand the gun before you do any more Dremiling. New gun owners an dremils are not meant to go together.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

After taking and grinding on the extractor and a little bit in the lower portion of the rim of the bolt head, I polished it up and I'd say the bolt is locking down 50% better when I load the bullets in the magazine. Thanks tomme boy for telling me that or I would have grinded my extractor till there was nothing left. Loading the bullets in the magazine made a world of difference but it still needed some slight grind stone work and polishing. Thanks for all the help guys.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

The main reason this is happening is the ammo. The rims are not made right. Is this brass cased Albainian? They were the worst I have seen having the rims not made right. Also the ammo is meant to be shot in their MG's not in the Mosins. The Mosins are a last ditch effort and if they get to the point to have to use the Mosins all is lost anyway. That is also why everyone gripes about the bolt sticking. It is not a burr in the chamber or dried cosmoline. It is the ammo. The MG's have a very brutal extraction system and it is going to rip the case out no matter what. I have been telling everyone about this about the ammo for about 20 years an it is finally catching on. People sometimes do listen. But not always.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First thing you need to understand is a Mosin was NOT made to have a round dropped into the chamber an then close the bolt. </div></div>

Calling BS on that one...

I single-load my sporter Mosin from the bench, every time, and have no issues...

It is NOT a controlled-feed action, it's a push feed. The bolt face is a full circle, the rim cannot get under the extractor until the bolt is closed.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

I know it made a difference in my mosin. The bolt closed a lot easier when I loaded the bullets into the magazine.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MclovinthatMosin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know it made a difference in my mosin. The bolt closed a lot easier when I loaded the bullets into the magazine. </div></div>

My MNs do not care how cartridges are loaded - manually one by one or from magazine. And I also question this statement that MN was designed to feed only from magazine, it does not make lots of sense. I suggest you put dremel tool aside and make sure that everything in your MN, including bolt, was re-assembled correctly when you moved from original wooden stock to ATI stock. As others idicated, ATI stock may be crooked, which would cause bolt binding in general, and some ammo may have thicker rims, which would complicate and/or prevent bolt from closing.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

Do you have the same issues in the issued stock? I have a 91/59 that was over inletted for the magazine. Bolt cycled fine without ammo but not with actual rounds. Built a little space beween action and magazine everything smoothed up.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

You guys may be loading them one at a time, but it is NOT made to be loaded that way. The extractor is not made to slip over the rim. It will go over it but you have to slap it preaty hard.

I have a few Mausers that you can close the bolt on a slipped in case. So are yo guys saying it is supposed to like a Mosin?

The ATI stocks usually need a little clearance work for the interruptor. But that will only cause it to not feed. Differant that not close.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys may be loading them one at a time, but it is NOT made to be loaded that way. The extractor is not made to slip over the rim. It will go over it but you have to slap it preaty hard. </div></div>

MN extractor SLIPS over the rim and engages the rim WHEN cartridge is FULLY inserted in the chamber. How this cartridge gets into the chamber is obviously of no importance to the extractor. If the rifle is in good working condition and cartridge dimensions are O.K., no slapping of the bolt is required. I bet you know this, and accept that your mentioning of the importance of magazine loading for reliable MN operation was, say, a bit extreme...
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have a few Mausers that you can close the bolt on a slipped in case. So are yo guys saying it is supposed to like a Mosin?
</div></div>

Mauser action is controlled feed. Lots of guys like the Mauser action just for that reason.

Mosin action is push feed, like most every modern centerfire action.

In case you, or anyone else reading the thread doesn't understand the distinction, "Larry" explains it well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZZphk6JWfQ

Two different animals like Kortik said.

I suppose it's possible that the extractor groove in the barrel isn't timed properly...but I don't see how that could happen unless the Mosin was re-barreled, incorrectly...
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

I don't think its an ammo issue, I tried the surplus stuff and the $14 Brown Bear stuff. After grinding the extractor with a stone and some slight dremmeling, my gun is feeding and bolt closing almost 100% I can load and eject all 5 rounds fairly fast. I feel like now if I saw a zombie horde on the horizon I could thin em out
smile.gif
. Before it was taking 4-5 seconds between shots just smacking on the bolt handle.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

There's a lot of things you can do to a Mosin to get them to function more smoothly- including a Timney
smile.gif
...

If you keep the military trigger, polishing those surfaces (some guys take it further) as well as the collar of the firing pin that rides in the bolt also helps. The Cratex wheel on the Dremel is my best friend...
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

Just because you can do it, does not mean it is right. I guess I should have added a sarcasim qoute.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just because you can do it, does not mean it is right. I guess I should have added a sarcasim qoute. </div></div>
I don't think you understand. It's impossible to load a round into the chamber of this rifle without the extractor snapping over the rim. That is, unless you removed the bolt, the extractor from the bolt, then put the round in place, hammered the extractor back in place, then inserted them back into the rifle! The bottom of the bolt face is not open like a Mauser, so there's no other way for this to happen in normal operation.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

Yes there is. The angle that the round comes up out of the mag. The round slips under the extractor as it is fed out of the mag an into the chamber.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

You better check again.
wink.gif


Also, the round is already out of the mag when you cycle the bolt backwards. That's what the interrupter does.

Try this: Feed a round from the magazine, then push the bolt forward, but not far enough to fully chamber it. The, pull the bolt backwards. The rim will not be under the extractor.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

First thing I do to any Mosin after thorough tera down of each and every part, is to take a 20Ga brass shotgun brush and wrap a few stands of metal from a stainless steel "chore girl" pot scrubber around the brush, dip in solvent, chuck said brush into a short length of cleaning rod into a drill and ream the the chamber carefully. Go slowly. Most Mosin chambers are a little tight and the mil-surp ammo with polymer coating will stick up the chamber. Since the 7.62x54r is a rimmed cartridge, head spacing is not as critical so GENTLY reaming the chamber is OK, Just be careful not to bugger up the throat. My Mosin's feed like a dream after this and I have never had any problems, even with Hungarian heavy ball surplus.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First thing I do to any Mosin after thorough tera down of each and every part, is to take a 20Ga brass shotgun brush and wrap a few stands of metal from a stainless steel "chore girl" pot scrubber around the brush, dip in solvent, chuck said brush into a short length of cleaning rod into a drill and ream the the chamber carefully. Go slowly. Most Mosin chambers are a little tight and the mil-surp ammo with polymer coating will stick up the chamber. Since the 7.62x54r is a rimmed cartridge, head spacing is not as critical so GENTLY reaming the chamber is OK, Just be careful not to bugger up the throat. My Mosin's feed like a dream after this and I have never had any problems, even with Hungarian heavy ball surplus. </div></div>

You can not possibly "ream" anything with brass brush and steel wool. Reaming is one of machining operations which has as its purpose to remove certain and controlled amount of the "base" material with use of appropriately profiled and sized metal cutting tool. You should replace "ream" with "clean". Cleaning of chamber is, naturally, a wise move.

"<span style="font-weight: bold">Most Mosin chambers are a little tight and the mil-surp ammo with polymer coating will stick up the chamber</span>" - could you provide more detailed explanation of this statement? As of today, I strongly disagree, but would like to learn if I'm missing something.
 
Re: Mosin Bolt not wanting to lock down

On the back of the bolt is a screw slot, it can be over/under-tightened. This can cause a problem with bolt locking.
 
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