Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

[dperry19]

Just wondering why there aren't more shops making Rem 700 style actions chambered in .22lr like the 40-X/XBs?

With the 700 being the benchmark by which other actions are judged/based upon, coupled with the fact that the market for 40Xs is insane, it seems that there would be more manufacturers building .22lr actions that fit a 700 footprint.

Just blows my mind that with all the action manufacturers out there making 700 style receivers, that more than the elite few who are currently doing so would chamber some for plinking/training.

I know Black Ops Precision is currently endeavoring the 605, Stiller's has the 25x, and just recently I saw that 10X has a rimfire action that looks similar to a 700 (not sure how close).

Does anyone know of any other manufacturers out there or options for a 700 style single shot or repeater rimfire action upon which to base a trainer/plinker build? Or even why there's just not the selection of manufacturers out there making parts for this particulart type of setup?

 

[car2go4]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

its a low volume market

 

[dperry19]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

Thanks for the feedback DFOOSKING, I appreciate the insight. I can dig it that there's not too much out there in the way of product support or aftermarket goodies specifically tailored to the setup.

I like where you began heading to the effect of better options at the same or better price point. Anything particular you're thinking about or some that stand ahead of the crowd? I'm just wondering if there's something out there that I'm missing aside from all the Remingtons, Winchesters, Marlins, Savages, Sakos, CZs, Annies, Rugers...

I definitely agree that there's plenty of good rimfire setups that are a lot more affordable than getting ahold of a 40x (or even just the barreled action for that matter) and then outfitting it to your liking. I've looked a good deal at going the Annie, CZ, Sako, etc. route but none seem to have the allure of the 700 style action; that being said they'll still shoot the lights out, just perhaps without the 'Remington feel' to them, which in the grand scheme I guess really isn't all that important.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

To change the question a bit - how many (repeaters esp) have the footprint of a 700 so as to allow them to be put into a real stock and then allow you to have something that is a true trainer to your actual CF rifle?



TIA

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't believe a trainer has to have an exact footprint of any rifle. A trainer will inexpensively teach you to operate an accurate bolt gun and make sight adjustments needed to make accurate hits (within reason). </div></div>

Matching ergos is nice, but I think the real advantage of an exact footprint in 22lr is that you can use the same stock systems as your 700 based rifle. I think that is more important, especially if you are talking about tactical type stocks like the AICS or McMillians. If you are just shooting a 700 real rifle in a standard stock, most stocks, with in reason, would replicate it enough for me.

I asked the same question about 6 months ago and it seems it is the same answer. When you get bit by the 22lr bug, it seems like it is the only thing that really matters gun wise in the world and that everyone wants what we're looking for. I guess tactical 22lr guns are far more of an acquired taste- but an all encompassing hunger once you shoot one. My 40X in an AICS made me giggle for the first time in years when I got it to the range for the first time.

 

[dperry19]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

[/quote]

Do you need to carry it or shoot from only a bench? What's acceptable for group size...2" at 100yds...sub 1" at 100yds? Can my setup shoot stuff as close a 20ft and as far as 250yds? A little research before spending a dime will save you a lot of heartache and money. TOP PREDATOR has done a few really good threads on here regarding getting started.

[/quote]

Well I'm looking to get into a fairly well rounded sub MOA tactical trainer. Would love to use it to get into the basics of long range shooting and working on all manner of shooting techniques (scoped applications). I work on honing most of my skills (iron sights) with a Marlin 39; it's an awesome rifle and I can use it to do everything from cutting reeds in two at 10 yds to hitting soda cans at 100 (not every single time). However, there's something unsatisfying about my groups at 100 with the iron sights so I was thinking about something more tailored to the application. To that effect I kinda liked the idea of a 40x or similar (also now looking at the 541) that I could slap on some precision sights and graduate to scoped use as needed. I know I could stick some glass on the Marlin but it might hurt my feelings; I kinda like my lever gun not to have a scope. Maybe I'm a purist.

Thanks for the heads up on TOP PREDATOR's threads. I'll check em out and continue soaking up good info.

 

[slewfoot812]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

well i figured id add my two cents. just got my 40x together tuesday.i bought a med barrel and sent it to krieger and put a straight 1-1/4 pipe on it.28" length,11deg crown, it weighs a ton. put a weaver fixed 36 on it,jewel trigger,mcmillan br stock. took it to our indoor 50ft range that evening and ran 400 rnds through it. i never really even tried to group the thing, was just seasoning the barrel.wed night ran a brick of cci blazers through it. its been four days now and it is insanely accurate. (YOU CAN HIT A TICK OFF A FLIES ASS WITH IT!!!!) i just love that damn gun!!!!

 

[Tim C.]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

In the real world - and as an old guy - I had time to wait until something came along. I picked up one of the CMP medium barrel 40X barreled actions at a gun show for $300, added the stock for another $50. Got together with another old guy buddy who cut the barrel to 24 inches and re-crowned. As an amateur woodworker, a little judicious wood removal, reshaping and refinishing, I've got a pretty fair heavy sporter that will shoot a ragged hole @ 50 yards with good ammo if I have a good day. Swapped the 24X Leupold out for one of the 12X's in the safe and have left it that way. It's a tad heavy - but it works.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Duckysattva</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[/quote]
Thanks for the heads up on TOP PREDATOR's threads. I'll check em out and continue soaking up good info.</div></div>

here's the one i think they are referring to: CMP 40X build, what do I need?

several month ago i figured i'd bite the bullet too and go the 40X route. not only for the obvious performance they appear to inherantly have, but also for the "Gucci-ness" and romance of it.

i found a more than a few manufacturers that make clones, all of which i'd believe anyone would condider pricey - but that's the price you pay for that Gucci-ness that keeps the 40X in that highly regarded catagory.

another thing i noticed is the availability of bolts and such to go with that receiver. there is PTG's at around $200.00 and a few extras that go with it, but other than that, i don't know if there are other suppliers of new bolts out there. surely the benchrest crowd knows more of where to get 'em, if they exist.

i know that if i went with a new "clone" action, i'd want a new bolt to go with it. there alone is a good chunk of change, probably over $600.00 just for those two...then you need a barrel, trigger, etc.

or just call up remington and order one from the custom shop. http://remingtoncustom.com/Rimfire_40xbbr.aspx

DFOOSKING's words above really is the most objective point of view of the 40X vs. the rest of the crowd i've found so far. there's no doubt the 40X is a performer, but he put into reality that in the same price range that there are options that would probably be of more value on targets, with parts that are not 40 years old and readily available. (such as warming over a CZ, Anschutz, Sako, etc.)

but there is the allure of the 700 action in .22lr that makes it so darn neat, along with the historic romance and legend that the 40x brings. just think if savage made a 10 action or winchester made a 70 action in .22lr. with the same stock and scopebase mounting bolt spacing as their centerfires - wouldn't that be great! Ruger has their 77/22, yet fell short with the mounting bolt spacings for stocks and such.

so after my long winded go around, i think the 40X from it's inception of being a more trued action puts it in the custom or specialized catagory, and if a true duplicate was made, there would have to be extra care in the manufacturing of it to equal the original design - that is if patent infringments will allow it. that extra care to be taken costs extra $, and without that extra care taken to save the consumer some hard earned cash, their very receiver may not own up to the 40X - or at least the legend of the 40X - and all those new toolings and labor put into the 40X clone may end up costing them more than the demand will provide if they fall short.

To intoduce an action that does fall short of the 40X specs, even as a more affordable option just for the look and feel of it, leaves the question of available bolts and other parts. i'd think the manufacturer would almost have to produce both, and probably around that $400.00 mark if was based on look and feel and not so much performance, as then again comes the CZ, Anschutz, Sako factor in that price range.

sort of like buying a 55 chevy kit car and tossing it on a camaro frame. no matter how much it looks like a 55 chevy, it just isn't.

 

[slewfoot812]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

(UPDATE)well after the race today, i went back to the indoor range. i ran another brick of the cheap stuff through that 40x. it has 1,600 rnds through it,since tuesday when the barrel was unfired. i then took out some eley black. after minor scope adjustments, i got down on that thing like my life depended on it. this ol girls a keeper, i also have a 10/22, 77/22, 10/22charger,savage btvlss.they all are are 40x clones in my book, and this summer they will all get exercised. you just need to decide for yourself what you need and get that. the problem with the weight of the 40x can easily be solved and you can pack it for miles with the right fitting sling and never get tired. its called a: peeee-cup.

 

[dperry19]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
i found a more than a few manufacturers that make clones, all of which i'd believe anyone would condider pricey - but that's the price you pay for that Gucci-ness that keeps the 40X in that highly regarded catagory.
</div></div>

What other manufacturers are you finding out there that are making clones PREDATOR? Stiller's, 10x, Black Ops Precision... who else?

 

[car2go4]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

Ducky,

When you ask who else,is that in regards to single shot or repeater actions - big difference in the answer to your question!

 

[TNT]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

If you're holding off on buying a 40x because you are waiting for the vaporware repeater 40x clone or some other fairy dust, stop waiting.

I was considering options a few years ago and the 25x repeater was "just around the corner" so I planned on doing a nice custom .22 based on that. A few months went by and someone was selling their 40x here and I snatched it up. The guy had already put it in a nice HS stock, bedded it, put a hugely fat tomato stake shilen barrel on it - all the extra work that'd I'd never get around to do. My only regret is that I waited more than a day to buy it. I've had more enjoyment from that rifle, and truth be told, I'd pick it as my only one if I could choose just one. Had I waited for something new, I'd still be sitting here wondering "wtf?"

My recommendation is to flip a coin, break a wishbone, whatever, to pick between 40x and 25x, then go build yourself the rifle and get shooting. Grab one of the Huber concepts triggers if that's your cup of tea (definitely mine), a stock you like, and put some nice glass on top and you've got yourself the most fun you'll ever have at 100yds.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Duckysattva</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What other manufacturers are you finding out there that are making clones PREDATOR? Stiller's, 10x, Black Ops Precision... who else?</div></div>

just a few

http://www.hallmfg.com/html/rimfire.html

http://www.baityscustom.com/

http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/m...duct_Code=TURBO

http://kelbly.com/actions.html

http://www.bordenrifles.com/benchrest.html

http://batmachine.com/

http://www.farleymfg.com/

http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html

http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/index.php?page=X-Treme%20Ti

http://www.vandykerifles.com/nesika-actions.htm


stolle action, bill myers action, Swindlehurst action,

http://remingtoncustom.com/Rimfire_40xbbr.aspx


don't know if they all can be used as a rimfire application, but are 700 clones, and a few are used for .22 rimfire benchrest.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

Hall's action is not a drop in for a 700/40X. I talked to him personally about it. IIRC, Someone- Rico's Revenge(?) did have GAP build-up a Hall action into a AICS with a neat ball bearing catch for the magazines. Mr. Hall said that the action is close, but to fit into a 700 stock it needs to be modified a bit. It was about a year ago I talked to him, but his point was that he wanted to make an action better than a 700. Just because something takes a 700 trigger, doesn't make it a 700 action.

I haven't checked out some of your other links that don't look familiar, but there aren't any repeaters out there, are there?

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

Baitycustom (#2) claims they have a repeater and I think there is one more in there too.


Good luck

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why there aren't more shops making Rem 700 style actions chambered in .22lr like the 40-X/XBs?</div></div>

No body wants to spend the money for such. They can't compete with the anchutes when it comes to serious competition such and ISU or international small bore.

They can't be used in CMP Rimfire Sporter or NRA Light Rifle events.

They were great rifles but just no market. The last one to try was H&R with their 5200 clones, they had pretty good success because the military, especially the National Guard bought thousands for their small bore programs, Those programs are gone and even the 5200s went to CMP.

I'm one of the sad ones to see them go (40x, Win 52s and H&Rs) go. They were great training tools and worked great prone rifles such as the English Matches.

I still have my H&R, and I wont let it go.

 

[Tantrum]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

I'm holding out for the BlackOps action. I have two of thier DBMs and I'm saving for a rifle. I've looked at the available rmfire actions, but from what I've read, the Blackops is the better way to go. It's a 700 footprint that's fits any stock or chassis made for the 700. They have a magazine that will fit the DBMs I have.

 

[Hoser]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

I have an older Anschutz 54 repeater that I am going to sleeve and stick in an AI chassis.

I am betting it will be much better than a 40X.

 

[darkstar]

Re: Why are there not more 40-X/XB Clone Actions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't believe a trainer has to have an exact footprint of any rifle. A trainer will inexpensively teach you to operate an accurate bolt gun and make sight adjustments needed to make accurate hits (within reason).

If you have the money to make it look and feel like the real deal...good for you. But I'm a shooter...looking good is only cool as long as I'm driving nails doing it.

I'd rather see a guy who can properly operate his equipment in field conditions than see how much money he spend. Show me you can zero your rifle...call out a target and hit it. And if you miss for whatever reason make a good correction.

Not downing on anyone here...just saying.</div></div>


+1 DOOFSKING!
You do not have to have an identical rm to cf platform to "train". There are so many offerings out there for the money spent that are better than a 40X once you step away from that thinking. I own a stock civilian 40X HB. They are nice, but not all that.

Get into 22rf at the price point you can afford to. Use it on a regular basis at 50 yds and get your controls worked out and then get out to 100 yd and beyond if possible. You will be the better shooter for your efforts.

That is all there is to it. You want bling? Thats a whole nother story..