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Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
I dont think this needs to be said again, but...
Media has no place around war. War isn't pretty.
These soldiers tend to turn off their emotions when in combat. And sometimes these soldiers get bored. Their disattached morbid humor may shock some, but I understand it. I dont see this any diffrent than posing next to a game animal.
Sure, ill agree there are ways to take either of them too far, but I understand them.
Thats why I give them a half smile and a thumbs up. (Mho)
I dont think this needs to be said again, but...
Media has no place around war. War isn't pretty.
These soldiers tend to turn off their emotions when in combat. And sometimes these soldiers get bored. Their disattached morbid humor may shock some, but I understand it. I dont see this any diffrent than posing next to a game animal.
Sure, ill agree there are ways to take either of them too far, but I understand them.
Thats why I give them a half smile and a thumbs up. (Mho)
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
LOL Wonder how this shit will hit the fan here....
Either way I understand it but it might be time to pull camera's from every soldier in the AO.
The humor is morbid but and a good time to be showing up. Then again maybe we should show more. Make these people start fearing the infidel we might get somewhere but the bleeding hearts in the states make this impossible.
LOL Wonder how this shit will hit the fan here....
Either way I understand it but it might be time to pull camera's from every soldier in the AO.
The humor is morbid but and a good time to be showing up. Then again maybe we should show more. Make these people start fearing the infidel we might get somewhere but the bleeding hearts in the states make this impossible.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
I am outraged, that there is any outrage over this.
The enemy NEEDS to see more photos of what happens to them when they mess with the U.S. Military. As for the liberal media, they need to imbed with the Taliban.
I am outraged, that there is any outrage over this.
The enemy NEEDS to see more photos of what happens to them when they mess with the U.S. Military. As for the liberal media, they need to imbed with the Taliban.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These soldiers tend to turn off their emotions when in combat. And sometimes these soldiers get bored. Their disattached morbid humor may shock some, but I understand it. I dont see this any diffrent than posing next to a game animal.</div></div> These soldiers were not in combat at the time. Even so, turning off one's emotions means <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> posing in public with body parts. Being bored is not an excuse for violating the UCMJ, and game animals are not covered by the Geneva Conventions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Make these people start fearing the infidel...</div></div>How? They blew themselves up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SturmHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The enemy NEEDS to see more photos of what happens to them when they mess with the U.S. Military.</div></div>Except that these former enemy killed themselves.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different? </div></div>Exactly: It shows that our military leadership has learned nothing since Vietnam.
This war <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> different; see my sig line as to the conversation about how and why. The problem I see here is that counter insurgency, as a method, works only on a sophisticated and logical enemy. This enemy is backward, and pathological, which means that counter-terrorism is probably the best that we can hope for in terms of a successful policy.
Given the unit involved, I'll wager that it's a leadership issue - at the senior officer level.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These soldiers tend to turn off their emotions when in combat. And sometimes these soldiers get bored. Their disattached morbid humor may shock some, but I understand it. I dont see this any diffrent than posing next to a game animal.</div></div> These soldiers were not in combat at the time. Even so, turning off one's emotions means <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> posing in public with body parts. Being bored is not an excuse for violating the UCMJ, and game animals are not covered by the Geneva Conventions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Make these people start fearing the infidel...</div></div>How? They blew themselves up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SturmHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The enemy NEEDS to see more photos of what happens to them when they mess with the U.S. Military.</div></div>Except that these former enemy killed themselves.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different? </div></div>Exactly: It shows that our military leadership has learned nothing since Vietnam.
This war <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> different; see my sig line as to the conversation about how and why. The problem I see here is that counter insurgency, as a method, works only on a sophisticated and logical enemy. This enemy is backward, and pathological, which means that counter-terrorism is probably the best that we can hope for in terms of a successful policy.
Given the unit involved, I'll wager that it's a leadership issue - at the senior officer level.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
</div></div> Exactly! I see bodies on the History channel all the time.
Oh look, we killed some someone in Afghanistan! What a surprise! This is why other countries think we are weak. Somebody cries foul or no fair and we start making excuses like we did something wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
</div></div> Exactly! I see bodies on the History channel all the time.
Oh look, we killed some someone in Afghanistan! What a surprise! This is why other countries think we are weak. Somebody cries foul or no fair and we start making excuses like we did something wrong.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
I always find it hilarious when the world decries a nation as unjust, immoral, etc.- then places on the same nation the yoke of moral culpability for doing what every other nation does, and by default, its soldiers.
The world needs to make up its mind- is the USA the standard or not?
If so, get on board and smile for the camera. If not, why the feigned outrage? When shall the world's standard bar be the site of punitive media pull ups for more than the USA and Israel?
I agree it's against UCMJ, so I'm not defending the actions.
I always find it hilarious when the world decries a nation as unjust, immoral, etc.- then places on the same nation the yoke of moral culpability for doing what every other nation does, and by default, its soldiers.
The world needs to make up its mind- is the USA the standard or not?
If so, get on board and smile for the camera. If not, why the feigned outrage? When shall the world's standard bar be the site of punitive media pull ups for more than the USA and Israel?
I agree it's against UCMJ, so I'm not defending the actions.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
Take a bunch of young men, turn them into war fighting Marines, and you have th ebest work anyone could ever do. Now think about it, these kids come from broken homes, low income places, back country hollows, you know, all places where normal city folk know dark humor comes from, you know, the really twisted stuff. Now ya make them Marines, what the hell you expect? I mean, really, it all started way way back when we were hunting rabbits and a pair of heads on a pair of logger boots made a great pair of bunny slippers
Take a bunch of young men, turn them into war fighting Marines, and you have th ebest work anyone could ever do. Now think about it, these kids come from broken homes, low income places, back country hollows, you know, all places where normal city folk know dark humor comes from, you know, the really twisted stuff. Now ya make them Marines, what the hell you expect? I mean, really, it all started way way back when we were hunting rabbits and a pair of heads on a pair of logger boots made a great pair of bunny slippers
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now think about it, these kids come from broken homes, low income places, back country hollows, you know, all places where normal city folk know dark humor comes from, you know, the really twisted stuff. Now ya make them Marines, what the hell you expect?</div></div>Wasn't it John Kerry who said to stay in school or you'll wind up in Iraq? It sounded like snobbery then, too.
Of course, this time they weren't Marines.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now think about it, these kids come from broken homes, low income places, back country hollows, you know, all places where normal city folk know dark humor comes from, you know, the really twisted stuff. Now ya make them Marines, what the hell you expect?</div></div>Wasn't it John Kerry who said to stay in school or you'll wind up in Iraq? It sounded like snobbery then, too.
Of course, this time they weren't Marines.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SturmHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am outraged, that there is any outrage over this.
The enemy NEEDS to see more photos of what happens to them when they mess with the U.S. Military. As for the liberal media, they need to imbed with the Taliban. </div></div>
Agreed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SturmHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am outraged, that there is any outrage over this.
The enemy NEEDS to see more photos of what happens to them when they mess with the U.S. Military. As for the liberal media, they need to imbed with the Taliban. </div></div>
Agreed.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SturmHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The enemy NEEDS to see more photos of what happens to them when they mess with the U.S. Military.</div></div>Agreed: Like photos of the schools we built and photos of girls attending school for the first time in their lives.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SturmHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The enemy NEEDS to see more photos of what happens to them when they mess with the U.S. Military.</div></div>Agreed: Like photos of the schools we built and photos of girls attending school for the first time in their lives.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think this needs to be said again, but...
Media has no place around war. War isn't pretty.
These soldiers tend to turn off their emotions when in combat. And sometimes these soldiers get bored.<span style="color: #CC0000"> Their disattached morbid humor may shock some, but I understand it. I dont see this any diffrent than posing next to a game animal.</span>
Sure, ill agree there are ways to take either of them too far, but I understand them.
Thats why I give them a half smile and a thumbs up. (Mho) </div></div>
Wouldn't be surprised if the team that got OBL tied some deer antlers on him for a group photo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think this needs to be said again, but...
Media has no place around war. War isn't pretty.
These soldiers tend to turn off their emotions when in combat. And sometimes these soldiers get bored.<span style="color: #CC0000"> Their disattached morbid humor may shock some, but I understand it. I dont see this any diffrent than posing next to a game animal.</span>
Sure, ill agree there are ways to take either of them too far, but I understand them.
Thats why I give them a half smile and a thumbs up. (Mho) </div></div>
Wouldn't be surprised if the team that got OBL tied some deer antlers on him for a group photo.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
They need to be drummed out of the service for being such dumbasses for posting the pics!!!
You'd think with all of the previous stuff that has gone on that the remaining members of the combat arms would learn about posting such pictures.
If you're that freakin dumb to keep doing it, you don't need to be in the service.
Geeezzzzzzzzzzzz, don't theses kids ever learn????
They need to be drummed out of the service for being such dumbasses for posting the pics!!!
You'd think with all of the previous stuff that has gone on that the remaining members of the combat arms would learn about posting such pictures.
If you're that freakin dumb to keep doing it, you don't need to be in the service.
Geeezzzzzzzzzzzz, don't theses kids ever learn????
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
Let's hope that this is not portrayed by the Army as only the fault of its lowest ranks. This is evidence of a breakdown in leadership at the senior enlisted level, and it could not have happened in this way without poor leadership at Brigade level.
Let's hope that this is not portrayed by the Army as only the fault of its lowest ranks. This is evidence of a breakdown in leadership at the senior enlisted level, and it could not have happened in this way without poor leadership at Brigade level.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
They want more respect for suicide bombers body parts, seriously?
They want more respect for suicide bombers body parts, seriously?
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
I agree that this is a breakdown in leadership but, not the way the media is portraying it. The problem is the disloyalty of the soldier who reported it. The first army value that these kids learn is "Loyalty". It is a fucking war! The soldiers job is to atrit the enemy. If the enemy helps them out by blowing themselves up, so much the better. It is still cause for celebration. Who the fuck are these people that think we can train kids to be killers, send them out to dispatch the enemy and then tell them that they shouldn't be proud of killing another human being?? Well guess what? It doesn't work that way. The media and all the sheltered Americans want to put a conscience on warfare. Bullshit! They're either warriors or they're not. The disloyal asshole who sent in the pictures is the one who should should be facing charges. That's the person who leaked uncleared information to outside sources. And, there is nothing in the UCMJ about taking photos of dead bodies. Now there may be a standing order prohibiting it (there was not during my tours in Iraq) in which case they would be guilty of disobeying an order under Article 92. They could also try to punish them under article 134 for bringing discredit upon the military but, a good lawyer can probably get that dismissed. Some of the bullshit responses on here by people who have never had to stand toe to toe with the wolf just irritate the shit out of me. Just go curl up in your bed, pull the covers over your head and shut the fuck up. Oh shit...did i just offend somebody? Sorry.
Bob
I agree that this is a breakdown in leadership but, not the way the media is portraying it. The problem is the disloyalty of the soldier who reported it. The first army value that these kids learn is "Loyalty". It is a fucking war! The soldiers job is to atrit the enemy. If the enemy helps them out by blowing themselves up, so much the better. It is still cause for celebration. Who the fuck are these people that think we can train kids to be killers, send them out to dispatch the enemy and then tell them that they shouldn't be proud of killing another human being?? Well guess what? It doesn't work that way. The media and all the sheltered Americans want to put a conscience on warfare. Bullshit! They're either warriors or they're not. The disloyal asshole who sent in the pictures is the one who should should be facing charges. That's the person who leaked uncleared information to outside sources. And, there is nothing in the UCMJ about taking photos of dead bodies. Now there may be a standing order prohibiting it (there was not during my tours in Iraq) in which case they would be guilty of disobeying an order under Article 92. They could also try to punish them under article 134 for bringing discredit upon the military but, a good lawyer can probably get that dismissed. Some of the bullshit responses on here by people who have never had to stand toe to toe with the wolf just irritate the shit out of me. Just go curl up in your bed, pull the covers over your head and shut the fuck up. Oh shit...did i just offend somebody? Sorry.
Bob
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
When I was a Marine, back in the Sixties/Seventies, in RVN we had all these same problems - the body part collectors, the photographers, so on and so forth. Plenty of stories of more of the same from WWII. Difference seems to be that in RVN, at least, somebody with rank would tell you to get rid of the necklace or break up the "photo shoot" and tell you not to be doing that shit. And, grunts being grunts, they might or might not do it again. Command disapproval went a long way toward minimizing it but anyone who thinks it didn't happen is living in a fantasy world.
Difference now is with asymmetrical warfare, this bullshit will lose the war for you. A Fourth-Generation Conflict is won or lost on the battleground of public opinion, and public opinion is affected by publicity. We run all the U.S. press out of Afghanistan, and these kids are still emailing pics home, or some Afghan whips out his cell phone and snaps one and emails it to his buddy in Europe and there it goes. On top of that, being a NATO operation, we can't stop the Allied press from being there.
Blackout the press? Okay, but what about the foreign press? We can't do a thing about them, and we look even worse for trying to censor our our own press. Looks clumsy and impotent, bad for public opinion. Used to be that not one in ten thousand Americans would read an article in the Times of London, but now all you need is Google. World public opinion turns against us, domestic public opinion follows, and the public demands an immediate shutdown whether we've accomplished anything or not, and it happens.
One thing I've noticed is that the 82nd posing with the body parts, the Marines pissing on the corpses, etc. - why is it just us? What about all the other NATO troops in Theater? And the answer isn't that our media sucks, because the British and European tabloids make our press look like an old ladies' sewing circle by comparison. And the answer isn't "Everybody hates us." I suspect piss-poor leadership is a factor. The U.S. military is a brand name, and this stuff is tarnishing it. Any of us in uniform during the late Sixties and Seventies have a good feel for anti-military sentiment and a sense of how bad it can get.
When I was a Marine, back in the Sixties/Seventies, in RVN we had all these same problems - the body part collectors, the photographers, so on and so forth. Plenty of stories of more of the same from WWII. Difference seems to be that in RVN, at least, somebody with rank would tell you to get rid of the necklace or break up the "photo shoot" and tell you not to be doing that shit. And, grunts being grunts, they might or might not do it again. Command disapproval went a long way toward minimizing it but anyone who thinks it didn't happen is living in a fantasy world.
Difference now is with asymmetrical warfare, this bullshit will lose the war for you. A Fourth-Generation Conflict is won or lost on the battleground of public opinion, and public opinion is affected by publicity. We run all the U.S. press out of Afghanistan, and these kids are still emailing pics home, or some Afghan whips out his cell phone and snaps one and emails it to his buddy in Europe and there it goes. On top of that, being a NATO operation, we can't stop the Allied press from being there.
Blackout the press? Okay, but what about the foreign press? We can't do a thing about them, and we look even worse for trying to censor our our own press. Looks clumsy and impotent, bad for public opinion. Used to be that not one in ten thousand Americans would read an article in the Times of London, but now all you need is Google. World public opinion turns against us, domestic public opinion follows, and the public demands an immediate shutdown whether we've accomplished anything or not, and it happens.
One thing I've noticed is that the 82nd posing with the body parts, the Marines pissing on the corpses, etc. - why is it just us? What about all the other NATO troops in Theater? And the answer isn't that our media sucks, because the British and European tabloids make our press look like an old ladies' sewing circle by comparison. And the answer isn't "Everybody hates us." I suspect piss-poor leadership is a factor. The U.S. military is a brand name, and this stuff is tarnishing it. Any of us in uniform during the late Sixties and Seventies have a good feel for anti-military sentiment and a sense of how bad it can get.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
(Well put bob, bravo)
Ok so if I got this right, the military allowed soldiers to place death cards or "calling cards" on dead enemies, but we cant piss on em/ take pictures ect?
(Well put bob, bravo)
Ok so if I got this right, the military allowed soldiers to place death cards or "calling cards" on dead enemies, but we cant piss on em/ take pictures ect?
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
error in judgement. Doesn't matter if we agree or disagree, it's in poor taste and not professional. Sorry they are in trouble, and I don't think they deserve the sh*t storm they are going to have to endure but there is no way I would have allowed any of my Marines to take such a picture.
error in judgement. Doesn't matter if we agree or disagree, it's in poor taste and not professional. Sorry they are in trouble, and I don't think they deserve the sh*t storm they are going to have to endure but there is no way I would have allowed any of my Marines to take such a picture.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok so if I got this right, the military allowed soldiers to place death cards or "calling cards" on dead enemies, but we cant piss on em</div></div>Correct.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They want more respect for suicide bombers body parts, seriously? </div></div>No, it's the US military they want respect for - so that people who don't otherwise have an axe to grind will volunteer information to us about where the next bombs are planted.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ranger Bob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who the fuck are these people that think we can train kids to be killers, send them out to dispatch the enemy and then tell them that they shouldn't be proud of killing another human being??</div></div>The issue is not pride, it's judgment. And here the bomb did the killing, so any pride would be misplaced.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ranger Bob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some of the bullshit responses on here by people who have never had to stand toe to toe with the wolf just irritate the shit out of me.</div></div>Which ones?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok so if I got this right, the military allowed soldiers to place death cards or "calling cards" on dead enemies, but we cant piss on em</div></div>Correct.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They want more respect for suicide bombers body parts, seriously? </div></div>No, it's the US military they want respect for - so that people who don't otherwise have an axe to grind will volunteer information to us about where the next bombs are planted.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ranger Bob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who the fuck are these people that think we can train kids to be killers, send them out to dispatch the enemy and then tell them that they shouldn't be proud of killing another human being??</div></div>The issue is not pride, it's judgment. And here the bomb did the killing, so any pride would be misplaced.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ranger Bob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some of the bullshit responses on here by people who have never had to stand toe to toe with the wolf just irritate the shit out of me.</div></div>Which ones?
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
If the Afghans didn't want their bodyparts grotesquely displayed the time for that is before deciding to blow themselves up and scatter their parts all over the landscape.
Why is no one outraged at the suicide bombers?
Unprofessional of the military? Sure. But the bigger problem is the coward enemy who brainwashes his friend to be a suicide bomber.
If the Afghans didn't want their bodyparts grotesquely displayed the time for that is before deciding to blow themselves up and scatter their parts all over the landscape.
Why is no one outraged at the suicide bombers?
Unprofessional of the military? Sure. But the bigger problem is the coward enemy who brainwashes his friend to be a suicide bomber.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is no one outraged at the suicide bombers?</div></div>Did they post pics of themselves posing with American body parts? Because if they had, I assure you that many of the people who posted here saying that it's no big deal would be busy reversing themselves.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is no one outraged at the suicide bombers?</div></div>Did they post pics of themselves posing with American body parts? Because if they had, I assure you that many of the people who posted here saying that it's no big deal would be busy reversing themselves.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(Well put bob, bravo)
Ok so if I got this right, the military allowed soldiers to place death cards or "calling cards" on dead enemies, but we cant piss on em/ take pictures ect? </div></div>
Good point. They should make service in the war zone pre-requisite to rights to complain about things soldiers do to cope with madness.
Would I have my thumbs up in the picture? No. I never took any of these sort of pictures, but I had fellow soldiers who took pictures of grotesque things like suicide bomber parts (they just weren't in the pictures and weren't celebrating).
I honestly think people take pictures of this stuff to prove that there was a war to people back home who live like it isn't happening.
Because someday someone is going to say that was nothing, and I guess that guy unlike me can pull out his proof that it wasn't back on the block.
Hell the freaking newsman would take pictures of the body parts, so it must be the thumbs up they are unhappy with.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(Well put bob, bravo)
Ok so if I got this right, the military allowed soldiers to place death cards or "calling cards" on dead enemies, but we cant piss on em/ take pictures ect? </div></div>
Good point. They should make service in the war zone pre-requisite to rights to complain about things soldiers do to cope with madness.
Would I have my thumbs up in the picture? No. I never took any of these sort of pictures, but I had fellow soldiers who took pictures of grotesque things like suicide bomber parts (they just weren't in the pictures and weren't celebrating).
I honestly think people take pictures of this stuff to prove that there was a war to people back home who live like it isn't happening.
Because someday someone is going to say that was nothing, and I guess that guy unlike me can pull out his proof that it wasn't back on the block.
Hell the freaking newsman would take pictures of the body parts, so it must be the thumbs up they are unhappy with.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is no one outraged at the suicide bombers?</div></div>Did they post pics of themselves posing with American body parts? Because if they had, I assure you that many of the people who posted here saying that it's no big deal would be busy reversing themselves.
</div></div>
I would be pretty shocked if a US soldier would pose with his thumbs up in a picture with US soldier remains.
I mean that would really be an unlikely happening. Are you suggesting you have inside information and that occurred? I would remove those soldiers from duty for fear they had lost their minds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is no one outraged at the suicide bombers?</div></div>Did they post pics of themselves posing with American body parts? Because if they had, I assure you that many of the people who posted here saying that it's no big deal would be busy reversing themselves.
</div></div>
I would be pretty shocked if a US soldier would pose with his thumbs up in a picture with US soldier remains.
I mean that would really be an unlikely happening. Are you suggesting you have inside information and that occurred? I would remove those soldiers from duty for fear they had lost their minds.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">error in judgement. Doesn't matter if we agree or disagree, it's in poor taste and not professional. Sorry they are in trouble, and I don't think they deserve the sh*t storm they are going to have to endure but there is no way I would have allowed any of my Marines to take such a picture. </div></div>
Well Sergeant, I hate to break it to you but, allowing has nothing to do with it. If your Marines have had the chance to take these kind of photos, they have taken them. Sounds like you feel pretty good about your leadership; but these guys superiors felt the same way, I'm sure. You can never know what your subordinates are doing 100% of the time and the higher up you get, the harder it is. Someone will always fuck up. That is just the way it is. The true testament to your leadership is, how will it be dealt with? If the leadership in this case had cultivated a good sense of cohesion within the unit, one of their own would not have dimed them out to the media. There was a morale problem and this is how it manifested. I'm sure there were other indicators before this incident. Just to be clear, I neither condone nor condemn the taking of these photos. It is something soldiers/marines do. I do not like that they end up out there for the world to see because the world, in general, has no concept of what war is.
Bob
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">error in judgement. Doesn't matter if we agree or disagree, it's in poor taste and not professional. Sorry they are in trouble, and I don't think they deserve the sh*t storm they are going to have to endure but there is no way I would have allowed any of my Marines to take such a picture. </div></div>
Well Sergeant, I hate to break it to you but, allowing has nothing to do with it. If your Marines have had the chance to take these kind of photos, they have taken them. Sounds like you feel pretty good about your leadership; but these guys superiors felt the same way, I'm sure. You can never know what your subordinates are doing 100% of the time and the higher up you get, the harder it is. Someone will always fuck up. That is just the way it is. The true testament to your leadership is, how will it be dealt with? If the leadership in this case had cultivated a good sense of cohesion within the unit, one of their own would not have dimed them out to the media. There was a morale problem and this is how it manifested. I'm sure there were other indicators before this incident. Just to be clear, I neither condone nor condemn the taking of these photos. It is something soldiers/marines do. I do not like that they end up out there for the world to see because the world, in general, has no concept of what war is.
Bob
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre phot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
</div></div>
Agreed 100% .
Hell I got some photos that the vast majority of Liberals would find abhorrent !!
And I'm quite sane .....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
</div></div>
Agreed 100% .
Hell I got some photos that the vast majority of Liberals would find abhorrent !!
And I'm quite sane .....
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
A brief history lesson, but I can't remember the exact details, but I remember the moral of the event.
After the Spanish American war, and during the Morro Rebellion in the Phillipines, the Morros had been particularly brutal to the Americans. An American commander had managed to capture about a dozen Morros. Knowing the Morros are Muslim, he had them all tied to stakes, and then dug a mass grave. Several pigs were brought out and slaughtered, then tossed into the grave. Next, one by one the morros were exicuted and thrown into the grave with the pigs. All but 2 of the Morros were exicuted. Those 2 were released and told to go back to their leaders and tell them what happened, and that that was the fate of anyone who attacked the Americans.
The attacks stopped.
So just how should you handle uneducated, primative, fanatics, that only understand force, and who's only purpose is to kill infidels?
A brief history lesson, but I can't remember the exact details, but I remember the moral of the event.
After the Spanish American war, and during the Morro Rebellion in the Phillipines, the Morros had been particularly brutal to the Americans. An American commander had managed to capture about a dozen Morros. Knowing the Morros are Muslim, he had them all tied to stakes, and then dug a mass grave. Several pigs were brought out and slaughtered, then tossed into the grave. Next, one by one the morros were exicuted and thrown into the grave with the pigs. All but 2 of the Morros were exicuted. Those 2 were released and told to go back to their leaders and tell them what happened, and that that was the fate of anyone who attacked the Americans.
The attacks stopped.
So just how should you handle uneducated, primative, fanatics, that only understand force, and who's only purpose is to kill infidels?
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is no one outraged at the suicide bombers?</div></div>Did they post pics of themselves posing with American body parts? Because if they had, I assure you that many of the people who posted here saying that it's no big deal would be busy reversing themselves.
</div></div>
I would be pretty shocked if a US soldier would pose with his thumbs up in a picture with US soldier remains.
I mean that would really be an unlikely happening. Are you suggesting you have inside information and that occurred? I would remove those soldiers from duty for fear they had lost their minds. </div></div>
I think graham meant a Taliban posing over a US Soldier, not a US over US.
Are you saying you would have no problems with a picture of say four Taliban standing and celebrating the same way over the bodies of a few US servicemen?
Or a past pictures, are you saying you would have no problems with a picture of say four Taliban pissing on the bodies of a few US servicemen?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is no one outraged at the suicide bombers?</div></div>Did they post pics of themselves posing with American body parts? Because if they had, I assure you that many of the people who posted here saying that it's no big deal would be busy reversing themselves.
</div></div>
I would be pretty shocked if a US soldier would pose with his thumbs up in a picture with US soldier remains.
I mean that would really be an unlikely happening. Are you suggesting you have inside information and that occurred? I would remove those soldiers from duty for fear they had lost their minds. </div></div>
I think graham meant a Taliban posing over a US Soldier, not a US over US.
Are you saying you would have no problems with a picture of say four Taliban standing and celebrating the same way over the bodies of a few US servicemen?
Or a past pictures, are you saying you would have no problems with a picture of say four Taliban pissing on the bodies of a few US servicemen?
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
Bad things happen in war. Since we are the good guys, we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard.
But, this is a minor infraction, and the politicians wetting themselves in Washington should grow a pair. Groveling never impresses a Muslim.
Bad things happen in war. Since we are the good guys, we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard.
But, this is a minor infraction, and the politicians wetting themselves in Washington should grow a pair. Groveling never impresses a Muslim.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
These soldiers are at war not a damn birthday party. These are the kind of cut throat guys we want fighting the war, not a bunch of tree hugging liberals. They are trained to kill and that's what they do, an they do a bad ass job too.
God forbid they take a pictures of what's going on out there. There is no time for these soldiers to decompress. They do what they have to do and deal with it the best they can so they can come home. Let them be soldiers!
These soldiers are at war not a damn birthday party. These are the kind of cut throat guys we want fighting the war, not a bunch of tree hugging liberals. They are trained to kill and that's what they do, an they do a bad ass job too.
God forbid they take a pictures of what's going on out there. There is no time for these soldiers to decompress. They do what they have to do and deal with it the best they can so they can come home. Let them be soldiers!
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eracer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would a SEAL team do this? </div></div>
How do you know they don't do this on a regular basis (but just don't get caught)?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eracer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would a SEAL team do this? </div></div>
How do you know they don't do this on a regular basis (but just don't get caught)?
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
</div></div>
+1
collecting ears, teeth and scalps was semi-common among peers 20 yrs ago.
no internet back then....times were simpler
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
</div></div>
+1
collecting ears, teeth and scalps was semi-common among peers 20 yrs ago.
no internet back then....times were simpler
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eracer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would a SEAL team do this? </div></div>They might be too busy re-applying product to their hair after the mission.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eracer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would a SEAL team do this? </div></div>They might be too busy re-applying product to their hair after the mission.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5mmman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, there are pictures published on the internet showing the accused US Special Forces troops' faces and insignia. So much for OPSEC. </div></div>They were not SF.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5mmman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, there are pictures published on the internet showing the accused US Special Forces troops' faces and insignia. So much for OPSEC. </div></div>They were not SF.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
Tagged for later because I've had a few
Tagged for later because I've had a few
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5mmman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, there are pictures published on the internet showing the accused US Special Forces troops' faces and insignia. So much for OPSEC. </div></div>They were not SF. </div></div>
Your right. Read it wrong. OPSEC has not been compromised. Catastrophe averted.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5mmman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, there are pictures published on the internet showing the accused US Special Forces troops' faces and insignia. So much for OPSEC. </div></div>They were not SF. </div></div>
Your right. Read it wrong. OPSEC has not been compromised. Catastrophe averted.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
This new digital world seems to be coming back to bite a lot of soldiers in the ass.
This new digital world seems to be coming back to bite a lot of soldiers in the ass.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5mmman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5mmman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, there are pictures published on the internet showing the accused US Special Forces troops' faces and insignia. So much for OPSEC. </div></div>They were not SF. </div></div>Your right. Read it wrong. OPSEC has not been compromised. </div></div>Correct: Because it's not OPSEC, its INFOSEC.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5mmman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5mmman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, there are pictures published on the internet showing the accused US Special Forces troops' faces and insignia. So much for OPSEC. </div></div>They were not SF. </div></div>Your right. Read it wrong. OPSEC has not been compromised. </div></div>Correct: Because it's not OPSEC, its INFOSEC.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
The photos were floating around. It took two years for them to hit the mainstream... Which is a leadership issue in itself, and yet another reason why a video of Marines Pissing on dead bodies is harmful to one's fellow soldiers.
The photos were floating around. It took two years for them to hit the mainstream... Which is a leadership issue in itself, and yet another reason why a video of Marines Pissing on dead bodies is harmful to one's fellow soldiers.
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eracer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would a SEAL team do this? </div></div>
How do you know they don't do this on a regular basis (but just don't get caught)? </div></div>
Hence the label "quiet professionals."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eracer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would a SEAL team do this? </div></div>
How do you know they don't do this on a regular basis (but just don't get caught)? </div></div>
Hence the label "quiet professionals."
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
Keep all Media out. MM
Keep all Media out. MM
Re: US troops under investigation for macabre photos
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: opshin556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
</div></div>
+1
collecting ears, teeth and scalps was semi-common among peers 20 yrs ago.
no internet back then....times were simpler</div></div> Semi-common??? Really? I don't remember seeing or hearing about any of that when I enlisted in 1992. How much scalping did you see or do in the First Gulf War, Somalia, Haiti, Panama or former Yugoslavia? Lets even stretch it back another decade to include Beirut and Grenada. Exactly what conflicts and wars were you involved in during that time that you witnessed these events? Did you report these war crimes?
I'm starting to see a common trait in your posts opshin556, and they all smell like my dad's old dairy farm.
Violations of the Laws of War/Armed Conflict, the Geneva Conventions, other treaties that the US has ratified, and standards of common human decency are never acceptable. We're better than that. We're better than them. We prove it a thousand times a day that goes without reporting by the media, that just how things roll. It doesn't matter what the enemy does or doesn't do, it matters what WE do or fail to do.
Keep up the good work folks and check your fellow warriors when they get a case of the dumbass. Leaders... do your duty and deserve your stripes or get the hell out of the way for someone who will.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: opshin556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many History books do you find where American Soldiers, from the Civil War, WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, and so forth, pictured with dead enemy soldiers?
Why is this war any different?
</div></div>
+1
collecting ears, teeth and scalps was semi-common among peers 20 yrs ago.
no internet back then....times were simpler</div></div> Semi-common??? Really? I don't remember seeing or hearing about any of that when I enlisted in 1992. How much scalping did you see or do in the First Gulf War, Somalia, Haiti, Panama or former Yugoslavia? Lets even stretch it back another decade to include Beirut and Grenada. Exactly what conflicts and wars were you involved in during that time that you witnessed these events? Did you report these war crimes?
I'm starting to see a common trait in your posts opshin556, and they all smell like my dad's old dairy farm.
Violations of the Laws of War/Armed Conflict, the Geneva Conventions, other treaties that the US has ratified, and standards of common human decency are never acceptable. We're better than that. We're better than them. We prove it a thousand times a day that goes without reporting by the media, that just how things roll. It doesn't matter what the enemy does or doesn't do, it matters what WE do or fail to do.
Keep up the good work folks and check your fellow warriors when they get a case of the dumbass. Leaders... do your duty and deserve your stripes or get the hell out of the way for someone who will.
