Recoil question

[Bloody_Tailgate]

I have been using 168gr bullets in my 300WM for a few years now. I started using them because I had them on hand for my 308 and they shot so well I just kept using them. I would like to step up to the heavier bullets for this rifle but I'm concerned with managing the added recoil with them. The rifle is a Sendero in a ADJ HTG stock...weighs in around 12# with scope and bipod...no brake.

90% of my time with this rifle is punching paper, but this is my hunting rifle. Currently, if I shoot 50rds in a range trip that's about all I want to endure.

Is there going to be a significant change in recoil by going to a heavier bullet?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Recoil question

Try it and see. I'm not being a wiseass. Asking folks about something you'll be able to tell for yourself after just a few shots is like visiting the girl with the crystal ball. IMHO, it may be fun, but I don't think it serves very much purpose.

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: Recoil question

Greg, I have been reading your posts for quite some time now and I have learned a lot from you, thank you for your contribution to the site.

The problem I have is paying $50 for a box of bullets just to try them to see if I like them. I have boxes and boxes of bullets that I have not been able to get to shoot, or didn't like the performance, or for whatever reason decided not to continue using. I was just hoping that I could save myself a bit of money by asking others with experience.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Recoil question

OK, point well taken.

Knowing more about what you mean by heavier bullets, and why you believe they would be a better choice would help.

A more direct way of comparing recoil is to look at the round's advertised muzzle energy. At least it's more a case of comparing apples and apples. 20% more muzzle energy would appear, to me at least, to translate directly into 20% more perceived recoil.

Greg

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Recoil question

Here's a recoil calculator that might give you an idea of how much more recoil you might feel.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

As you'll note, the bullet is not the only factor, the powder weight plays a role as well. For heavier bullets, the powder charge usually weighs less.

In my .308 I don't notice much difference in recoil from 168 to 180gr. but that's just me.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: Recoil question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try it and see. I'm not being a wiseass. Asking folks about something you'll be able to tell for yourself after just a few shots is like visiting the girl with the crystal ball. IMHO, it may be fun, but I don't think it serves very much purpose. </div></div>

Lol, Greg is right up here ^^^. We can't really tell you what you'll be able to handle, but some of us will offer our experiences.

I typically shoot 180 grain accubonds for hunting, and 185 Berger Hybrids and 190 VLD's doing around 3,025-3,040 fps for my long range fun. I've never shot any 168's out of a .300 WSM or Winmag. I have shot 155's and can tell you that for me, I could notice a little more recoil with the 180-190 grain bullets. I didn't think it wasn't anything unmanageable, but it was something that I noticed. I wasn't bothered by it, but it may be enough that you may not like the increased recoil. I can tell you that I have shot the Berger 210 VLD's out of my rifle, and it was a pretty fair increase in recoil over the 180's. I was pushing them at a pretty good clip, although I don't remember the exact numbers right now. I want to say I had them over 2,2750, maybe even to 2,800. There was a pretty big noticeable difference in recoil, and I could even feel some torque, like twist from the rifle as the bullet exited, when I wasn't shooting off of a bipod.

For what I was and am currently doing (not usually over 1,200 yards), there's no reason for me to step up to the 210's. I can push the 185's and 190's fast enough to have the same or slightly less wind drift, and not take the brunt of the 210's. If I was trying to stretch things out past 1200, or wanted to carry even more kinetic energy downrange, I'd bump up to the 210's. Since that's not my normal shooting, for my uses, there's just no reason to. That has just been my experience thus far, and yours may be entirely different. I've got a LOT more rounds of 185-190's down the tube now, and am quite used to it; I may not think much of the 200-210 grain increase in recoil now that I'm a bit more acclimated to it.

I can tell you that your perception of increased recoil will probably just depend on how much heavier in weight you go, and how fast you're pushing them. If you're used to the 168's, and you jumped up to something in the 210's that are pushed hard, you'll definitely notice. I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to handle it, but it'll definitely be different. Those are just some generalities that may give you an idea of what you could be in for. You won't quite know until you shoot. Report back to us, and let us know what your experience is.

 

[PJ BAD]

Re: Recoil question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bloody_Tailgate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Greg, I have been reading your posts for quite some time now and I have learned a lot from you, thank you for your contribution to the site.

The problem I have is paying $50 for a box of bullets just to try them to see if I like them. I have boxes and boxes of bullets that I have not been able to get to shoot, or didn't like the performance, or for whatever reason decided not to continue using. I was just hoping that I could save myself a bit of money by asking others with experience. </div></div>

Try this: http://www.bulletsamples.com/ You can buy them 5 at a time

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: Recoil question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat088</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try it and see. I'm not being a wiseass. Asking folks about something you'll be able to tell for yourself after just a few shots is like visiting the girl with the crystal ball. IMHO, it may be fun, but I don't think it serves very much purpose. </div></div>

Lol, Greg is right up here ^^^. We can't really tell you what you'll be able to handle, but some of us will offer our experiences.

I typically shoot 180 grain accubonds for hunting, and 185 Berger Hybrids and 190 VLD's doing around 3,025-3,040 fps for my long range fun. I've never shot any 168's out of a .300 WSM or Winmag. I have shot 155's and can tell you that for me, I could notice a little more recoil with the 180-190 grain bullets. I didn't think it wasn't anything unmanageable, but it was something that I noticed. I wasn't bothered by it, but it may be enough that you may not like the increased recoil. I can tell you that I have shot the Berger 210 VLD's out of my rifle, and it was a pretty fair increase in recoil over the 180's. I was pushing them at a pretty good clip, although I don't remember the exact numbers right now. I want to say I had them over 2,2750, maybe even to 2,800. There was a pretty big noticeable difference in recoil, and I could even feel some torque, like twist from the rifle as the bullet exited, when I wasn't shooting off of a bipod.

For what I was and am currently doing (not usually over 1,200 yards), there's no reason for me to step up to the 210's. I can push the 185's and 190's fast enough to have the same or slightly less wind drift, and not take the brunt of the 210's. If I was trying to stretch things out past 1200, or wanted to carry even more kinetic energy downrange, I'd bump up to the 210's. Since that's not my normal shooting, for my uses, there's just no reason to. That has just been my experience thus far, and yours may be entirely different. I've got a LOT more rounds of 185-190's down the tube now, and am quite used to it; I may not think much of the 200-210 grain increase in recoil now that I'm a bit more acclimated to it.

I can tell you that your perception of increased recoil will probably just depend on how much heavier in weight you go, and how fast you're pushing them. If you're used to the 168's, and you jumped up to something in the 210's that are pushed hard, you'll definitely notice. I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to handle it, but it'll definitely be different. Those are just some generalities that may give you an idea of what you could be in for. You won't quite know until you shoot. Report back to us, and let us know what your experience is. </div></div>

Tomcat, this is exactly the info I was looking for. Obviously nobody will be able to tell me what I can handle, that was not my question. Basically what I am looking for is that point of diminishing returns. I Typically shoot no further than 800yds unless at the occasional rock at 800+. The flip side to that is that I live in South Dakota where the wind never dies. I think it's a steady 30mph today with higher gusts, so the thought of a 210 VLD sounds enticing but it's hard for me to justify the added recoil (if it's significant). I shoot for fun and food, not competition.

 

[rusty815]

Re: Recoil question

I went from shooting 168gr. rounds im my 300wsm to shotting 200gr. rounds and didnt notice to big of a difference, although it did recoil a bit harder, now im going to step up to 230gr. Berger OTM hybrids, maybe then ill feel the difference.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: Recoil question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bloody_Tailgate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tomcat, this is exactly the info I was looking for. Obviously nobody will be able to tell me what I can handle, that was not my question. Basically what I am looking for is that point of diminishing returns. I Typically shoot no further than 800yds unless at the occasional rock at 800+. The flip side to that is that I live in South Dakota where the wind never dies. I think it's a steady 30mph today with higher gusts, so the thought of a 210 VLD sounds enticing but it's hard for me to justify the added recoil (if it's significant). I shoot for fun and food, not competition. </div></div>

Some others will chime in, and may have different experiences. I'll give you my opinion on what you might give a shot. I live in West Texas, and fight the wind all the time as well. We get the same kind of stuff you're talking about, lol, but I never go try to shoot in it.

I've been really pleased with the 185 Hybrids from Berger. I was one of the guys that got some of the free ones to evaluate before they were released. I had previously been shooting the 190 VLD's, and really liked them, but they were definitely seating depth sensitive, and mine always liked to basically be jammed in the lands 1-2 thousandths. I found the 185's to be MUCH more forgiving relative to seating depth, and in my particular rifle, they had a much wider accuracy node as well. The nice thing about the 185's is also that they have the same BC as the 190's, but are 5 grains lighter.

On some of the numbers that I ran with the 190's vs. the 210's out to 1,000 yards, there wasn't much of a reason to take the 210's for me out of a .300 WSM. You have to keep in mind that I can't push the 210's as fast as you could in a .300 winmag, so that makes a little difference. But basically, even pushing the 210's hard, I could push the 190's fast enough to have the same wind drift at 1,000 yards, but with less drop, and less felt recoil. I'm sure with the 185's having the BC, it's the same sort of situation, and even a little less recoil (though not really enough to tell a difference). You could probably push the 210's or even the 200 Hybrids, out of the .300 wingmag fast enough to buck the wind even a little better than the 185-190 Hybrids, but it'll be at the cost of recoil. The faster you push that heavier bullet, the harder it's going to recoil. IF you wanted to consider something heavier of the Berger design, I'd look at the 200 Hybrid over the 210 VLD. It basically has the same BC as the 210, and it wasn't as seating depth sensitive, and also had a slightly wider accuracy node in my rifle than the 210 VLD. So you'd save the 10 grains, which might make a difference in recoil, and would probably have a little difference in drop at the longer ranges.

You've already been linked to a recoil calculator, so that will come in handy. I'd just go to like JBM and run some numbers for what you reasonably can push and would like to push the 185's and like the 200's. Make sure you use the right BC's from Berger, or whoever you're getting the bullets. Then look at what your wind drift and drop will be at some of the extreme distances, and see what you think. Some of the lighter bullets may have a couple more inches of wind drift at 1,000, but they will have significantly less drop, and the difference in recoil may make the difference. After you get some idea on the numbers of how you'd be pushing the bullet, put those numbers in the recoil calculator and see what you think. My guess is you'll probably tend to favor something around the 185-190 grain range.