Hard build decision

[ARS031]

Hey guys, looking for some help.. I seem to be bouncing back and forth between two calibres, 260AI and 300wm.

I have a military shooting background working with 308, 338 lapua and 50 cal. Aside from those calibres, I dont know anything. So I stepped off on a learning path and came to a comfortable conclusion that 260AI would probably suit my needs.

What I was looking for was a round I could shoot between 1200 and 1600m and still maintain MOA accuracy. I tend to shoot at 3000ft ASL and after looking into 139gr Scenars I determined I could probably, within reason, achieve my MOA standard while not running too hot. Field Tactical Edition on my iphone (using BC's from Lapua for the 139 scenar) claimed that I could expect my round to go transonic anywhere from 1250-1500m (I dont have my iphone handy right now to reference the exact numbers)

This all seemed reasonable to me, and I liked the fact that with the reduced recoil of the 260 I could easily spot my own rounds and have extremely fast follow up shots...

Then.. it happened.

I started reading about the new heavy bergers in the .308 calibre, and the hornady's. Dammit, it ruined me.

I love the 338 and bigger calibres, and all things considered, if the 260AI was no easier on my barrel life than the 300wm firing the heavier bullets, Id probably get my build done in 300wm.

I settled on the 260AI because at the time when I was reading, it was a better shooter than 308 from what I could understand.. and I figured it would be better on barrels than a 300wm.

So if youve managed to make it this far through my rambling.. I ask:

1.) Is the 300wm going to burn through barrels much faster than a 260AI would?
2.) Out to 1400m, does the 300wm shed wind much better than the 260AI?
3.) And finally, in my situation what would you do and why?

I also intend to use the rifle for hunting occaisionally in the mountains, so that does play towards the 300wm more as well.

Basically, Im confused, desperate, sad, emotional, distraught, and generally just numb because I cant just buy both when I get back from tour. I want to throw a fit and act like a child. (hopefully you can tell Im kidding)

Im looking for someone to help me decide. What do you guys think?

Ive got 8 more months to decide.

 

[Rthur]

Re: Hard build decision

I'm not an expert by any means but I would suggest looking into the 284/7mm caliber for what your looking to achieve distance wise. The 7wsm, 7saum and the 7rem mag just to name a few. There are guys running these that are going to 1800 and beyond.

These could be very good for hunting also.

Also checkout the post in this section: 7saum + 180 berger hybrids

good luck

Rthur

 

[jrob300]

Re: Hard build decision

I have both a standard .260 Rem and a 300WM. My advice to you is to go big if you're going to shoot long. The .260AI will have a little more pop than the .260, but it still shoots 139-142 gr pills and that's the rub. Past 1250 yds. the .260 is not as viscerally gratifying as the 300WM due to those little bullets. Harder to spot misses and hits. The heavy .308 bullets not only make a bigger mess to spot downrange, they definitely swing steel a lot more and the audible feedback is a LOT louder. The higher BC 208/215/225/230's will give you a finite wind advantage also. My WM with 208's is like cheating when it's windy.

If you're going to hunt big game at longish distances and shoot past 12-1300 yds. I'd go with the WM. If you shoot the heavies, the barrel life should be pretty good... perhaps not quite what the 260AI would give you, but certainly over 2000 rds.

Having said all that, I shoot close 250-300 rds a month from my .260. I love it. It's unbelievably accurate and fun to shoot. But my next rifle will be another boomer.

John

 

[bth87]

Re: Hard build decision

This last weekend we were running a .260 and .338lm at 1202m and I have to agree with what jrob said. go big if you want to shoot at steel at beyond 1000m. It was extremely hard to spot hits with the .260 whereas the .338 allowed us to both visually see and hear the impacts, and I'm sure the .300wm would be excellent as well in this regard, plus you get that extra edge in wind advantage which is crucial at extended ranges. Additionally if you want to hunt with the rifle, the .300wm is more than appropriate for any North American game animal.

 

[nicko]

Re: Hard build decision

I also own 260 rem and 300wm if I was shooting comps only I would def chose the 260. Hunting of course the 300 wm is way more practical. But If I was choosing just one I would choose the 300 wm 100% i recently swapped from the 190 smks to the 208 amaxs and man I was missin out the rifle now shoots like a laser I have a AAC brake/ flash hider and my 300 has less kick than the 260 without the brake.I have no trouble seeing hits and stayin on target. I shoot in the azprc comps and we have targets out to 2300 yards and out to a mile the 300 win mag shoots great and still has enough energy to swing a 1 inch thick 17 inch plate pretty good as for the 260 just kinda splats and hits are hard to tell after about 1000. But any how if you want one gun to do it all deffinatley go with the 300wm or even the 300rum You want the same preformance without the energy and 2/3 the cost to shoot get the 260. I was in the same perdiciment as u thinking I want one gun to do it all but hell I couldn't hold out and had to have them bolth.

 

[ARS031]

Re: Hard build decision

Thanks for all the opinions guys.

At work we typically get 1800-3000 rounds out of a 338 lapua magnum barrel. Is this similar to what I would expect to get out of the 300wm firing 208-230gr bullets loaded in the 2800-2900fps range?

I can live with a barrel change once a year, but once the round count starts getting below 2000 my wallet starts to find shadows.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Hard build decision

I got nearly 3000 rds. from my first WM barrel, but I really babied it. I think the heavier/slower loads help also. I can't imagine a 300wm shooting 150's at 3400 fps would last very long.

If you can be brutally honest with yourself about intended use, it will help a lot. For me, if I owned one rifle, it would be the .260. I *can* shoot long with it, but most of my shooting, percentage-wise, is under 1250 yds. So the better barrel life, lower recoil, reduced ammo cost all make it the better choice.

If you're going to shoot matches with a 300WM, it's going to toast the barrel pretty quick. How fast? Depends on type of match, length of strings, rate of fire, load, etc... but it won't last as long as the .260 in the same environment. And keep in mind that some matches are now discriminating against magnums.

The real answer is build both. But only you can decide which one is the better compromise for your type of shooting. You are asking the right questions...

John

 

[old95b10]

Re: Hard build decision

Got around 4500 rounds thru a .308 win.
Thing still holds .5 with factory ammo. Good for me.
My .300 win mag is at 600 rounds now and I grab it for shooting out to 1400, It aint let me down yet. Run the numbers make the adjustments and shoot,all most to easy.
Don't know anything about the .260AI at all. But the .260 rem is a nice round in my book.
If I had to have just the one I would go with my .300 win mag.
That is if I could not have my .338lm or .50bmg. But that is just me.Good luck on your build Sir!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Hard build decision

Here's my thinking; and as usual, it's outside the box, but not too far.

The comment above, about 7mm's, is worth reviewing. The newer bullets and propellents are making this bore diameter worth a second look. The 7mm will do what a 30 will do downrange, but better, with the same bullet weight and case capacity, and finally there are newer bullets and powders that make it more effective on the business end.

Allow me to offer the .280 Rem for your consideration. Think of it as a 7mm-'06.

Like the .300WM, it will also outperform the .30-'06 downrange; not apples and oranges, but apples and apples.

But it will also do it with a standard (long) action, standard .473 boltface, and also with less bullet weight, less powder weight, and less bore erosion. Less recoil, too. It can perform in a rifle that doesn't need as much mass to tame that recoil, and that can be a plus while running (panting?) up and down those mountainsides.

The .300WM is a killer, alright; but one pays for that in terms of probably unnecessary psysical punishment. I don't mind recoil (to a point), I just don't like it when it's unnecessary.

I have two Ruger MKI's chambered in .280 Rem, a moderate weight sporter, and a varmint weight LR hammer. Accuracy is turning out easy to find with Nosler 120, 140, and 150gr Ballistic Tips and the various 168/175s are going to ring whatever LR bell you need to ring. I don't like recoil and these first three are pussycats. I have yet to graduate to the 175's so that question is yet unanswered. The 150's will make 1Kyd supersonic at 3000ft ASL with ease, and retain velocity and terminal energy a good bit better than the 30's of equal weight

I think it's a win/win. Do it as a switch barrel, and that .473" bolt face begins to look mucho prettier.

About AIs. Why would somebody 'improve' a case and then not put the added capacity to use all-out? More powder, hotter loaded? Is this a recipe for bore conservation? Please pardon my doubt.

.280 Rem; it's what's for dinner...

Greg

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Hard build decision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not an expert by any means but I would suggest looking into the 284/7mm caliber for what your looking to achieve distance wise. The 7wsm, 7saum and the 7rem mag just to name a few. There are guys running these that are going to 1800 and beyond.

These could be very good for hunting also.

Also checkout the post in this section: 7saum + 180 berger hybrids

good luck

Rthur</div></div>

This.

Sounds like you need something in 7mm. Read Greg's post again too. You have options here, ranging from low recoil and extreme barrel life on one end (7mm-08) all the way to extreme performance/running with the 338LM on the other (7mm mags, 7STW, 7-300WM) on the other.

The currency you use to buy the performance you desire is barrel life.

Unless you need the extra energy of the really heavy 30 cal bullets or the 338LM it is going to be tough to beat the numbers on the 7mm bullets available right now.

 

[Donald]

Re: Hard build decision

The new 195gr 7mm when it arrives in a 7mm 300WSM with a G1 BC of about .790 would be hard to better, in the mean time the 180gr hybrid dose a great job, just something to think about.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Hard build decision

At 3000'ASL, a 7mm 162gr A-Max @ 2900fps (achievable with a 284 Winchester from a **short action** with 26" barrel) is supersonic to about 1600yd.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Hard build decision

my 300wm launches the 210 Bergers out to 1300yds with excellent sub moa accuracy. FTE puts me still supersonic at 1380yds. My load is not hot at all. If I pushed up the powder charge im sure i could get more out of it. Hell, even the 208 AMAX are giving me similiar results. I use my rig for hunting as well. I would lean towards the winmag...I dont think it will wear barrels any faster than the 260.

Now Ive been comtemplating the 7wsm for this BAT action i have laying around. They are, however, harder on barrels. For the distances Im shooting, I dont think the 7wsm would give me any more capability than my 300winmag.

A side not, if you plan on hunting with the gun, stick with a caliber that has readily available factory ammo. Nothing would suck more to get somewhere, forget your handloads, and you cant find 260ai ammo. I think the 300winmag ammo will be easier to find.

 

[Layton]

Re: Hard build decision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A side not, if you plan on hunting with the gun, stick with a caliber that has readily available factory ammo. Nothing would suck more to get somewhere, forget your handloads, and you cant find 260ai ammo. I think the 300winmag ammo will be easier to find. </div></div>

+1
I've taken this into account with every firearm I've acquired over the years that I planned to hunt with.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Hard build decision

Barrel life is also about at the top of my chambering choice criteria, especially for target guns.

They are going to get shot a lot, and whatever you shoot decrements the 'rounds remaining' counter before throat burnout. Best the increments are smaller than larger.

For a purely hunting intended rifle, I tend to have a broader mind on the subject. Unless I were using them several times a week to feed my family, they are less likely to get shot enough to burn out, whatever gets shot in them.

A hunter rifle's purpose and manner of usage leads me to favor commercial loads. Hunter rifles tend to be a lot more generic in general nature, barrel specs, and performance needs; and commercial ammo for hunting gets far more development investment, particularly regarding terminal performance.

Target rifles vary more, and IMHO commercial target loads tend to miss the mark for barrel transit time in more target guns than hunting loads do in hunter rifles. When they get it right for a particular target rifle, they tend to be outstanding; but I also suspect they don't ring that bell in as high a percentage of target guns than the commercial hunting loads can do for the greater number of hunter rifles.

For hunters, I favor Hornady's Superfermance and Custom hunting loads. But for target shooting, they are more costly and hotter loads than I'd like to use in my target rifles. Costing less, I am not averse to using Remington's Core-Lokt Express loads, but again, not for my target guns.

For my target guns, I usually find that handloading better serves my affordability and barrel transit time customization needs.

Oddly enough, I am finding more and more commercial exceptions to these issues. For example, this past weekend, I found that Prvi-Partizan (you may remember their products from when they were wearing the 'Hansen' label) 69gr Match performs right on a par with my own handloads for match accuracy in my new Stag Super Varminter at 250yd. At about $11 for 20, they tend to make the time/labor investment in making my handloads look like dubious frugality. BTW, that PPU (Prvi-Partizan headstamp) Brass is Boxer primed. I'll be chacking it out for handloads in the coming weeks.

Greg