First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

[timelinex]

So I finally got all my reloading stuff and put it to work. I'm working with once fired winchester brass, CCI br2 primers, 175smk's and varget. This is everything I did:

Flash hole debur
primer pocket uniform
trim the brass to 2.005
Sort the brass into 2gr lots
Neck sized to .334

I Tested my length to the lands with a hornady gage and got 2.843 . So I seated my bullets to a length of 2.853 for an average of .01" jammed into the lands. Since I was measuring from bullet tip, which is inconsistent, the actual length varied from 2.847 to 2.857 which I figured is ok. I was happy that this load did fit into my magazine.

The main place I have to shoot over 200 yds is a pace I hike up to. Its uneven terrain, shooting from a mountain side. Not the best setup. I brought my chronograph but realized there isn't anyway I could set it up with the terrain, so no #'s.

I loaded 2 sets of rounds of varget from 42gr to 46gr in increments of .5

It was a DA of 6200 and a temperature of 95 to 105. The first set of rounds I fired at 314 yards, and it was all over the place. The resulting ladder did not make any sense, and I scrapped it up to really uncomfortable position.

I moved the next ladder to 334 yards, and it was a better line of site. It was still not a really solid prone position(off center etc..) but it wasn't too bad. This ladder turned out good. The orange dot is slightly under 3 inches. Here it is:

It really looks like theres a solid node at 42.5 to 43.5. That seems like a little light on the powder though. Out of all of the loads, the only one that showed any pressure signs is the 46gr had a slightly rough bolt. BUT this was only on one of them and not the other, and looking at the brass the primers don't show any signs. Here is the best picture I could take:

What do you guys think? Should I go with that 42.5-43.5 node and break it up into .2gr increments. Or should I redo another ladder but try to go up to 47+ ? I definitely would not want to redo the ladder in this area, because to be honest its just not a steady enough shooting position.

 

[turbo54]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

If your position was compromised, I'd scrap the test and do it over.

If you've got a savage, run 45-45.5gr Varget and call it good.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

My interpretation is your step size is too large for the desired information to show itself on the target.

Inside 42g-to-46gr there should be at least 3 nodes, generally about 0.3-0.4 gr wide and spaced 0.8-to-1.2 gr apart.

42.5-43.5 looks to be a node, but 44.0-45.0 ALSO appears to be a (different) node that happens to overlap a bit with the lower node.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your position was compromised, I'd scrap the test and do it over.
</div></div>

Even with a solid bench and rest, I've got to where I will shoot three ladder targets using identical loads on each. It doesn't take much variation in shooting technique to disguise a node, especially at 300+ yards.

 

[turbo54]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OldTex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your position was compromised, I'd scrap the test and do it over.
</div></div>

Even with a solid bench and rest, I've got to where I will shoot three ladder targets using identical loads on each. It doesn't take much variation in shooting technique to disguise a node, especially at 300+ yards. </div></div>

Agree. However, if you're gonba do three shots per charge, might as well just do an OCW test.

I've quit doing traditional ladders. Now, I just do a quickie, on the lands to determine pressure limits. Then I load an OCW from 1.5gr under max, up to max.

 

[kamaswing]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

Personally I would try a different powder if your not happy with those lower velocities. Different powders will have different nodes. I probably wouldn't do a 47 plus ladder due to pressure limits.. Tried it myself and had to replace the ejector spring in my savage. Personally I would be happy with the lighter loads. Find a gr. that works and shoot the crap out of it. As long as you know your ballistics you will do fine losing a couple fps.

 

[MALLARD]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

+ 1 Mitch

43 & 45 grs shows a node. I'd probably settle on the 43 just because it looked like you have more room for error .

.01 jam length sounds like allot. I would only seat + .005 infront of the lands. You didn't mean .001 did you ?

maybe try seating .005 behind the lands ?

your overall group size is pretty good

 

[timelinex]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

I hear you guys load and clear. I will have to redo this test. I am thinking that I will just do an OCW test at .3gr increments. That way I can just go to the range and do it at 100 or 200 yards. My only worry with this is that since its meant to be done at 100 yards, the load isn't going to work as good at 1000 yards. I shoot at everything from 100 to 1000+ yards. Should I just start at 44 grains, since I want a velocity of atleast 2600+. That means if I want to test out to 47gr I would need to load 30 rounds total. Kind of alot, but worth it if it will give me good information.


Mallard, I seated it .01" into the lands. This is straight from the sticky made by TresMon. He recommended starting that far into the lands, as most rifles like it into the lands. It seems to work ok, I can extract the unfired round just fine.

 

[freeflight]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

Nice chart. Did you shoot with PST or SSHD?

I would focus on 43.0gr. Don't know your shooting condition, but here in So Cal desert it works for thousand yard shot.

I am surprised that you didn't have any issue closing the bolt when you jam the rounds that far into the lands. The best way to tune COAL is to use bullet comparator.

 

[timelinex]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

I shot with my PST. The SSHD is in my 338lm.

What velocity is 43gr giving people with 24" savages?

 

[turbo54]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot with my PST. The SSHD is in my 338lm.

What velocity is 43gr giving people with 24" savages? </div></div>

Slow.

My slow 24" 10FP did 2650 with 45.5gr Varget and 175smk, and my quick 26" 10FP goes 2750 with the same load.

 

[freeflight]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

Don't know about savage. But it is around 2550 fps out of my 24" Howa.

 

[flashhole]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

You might try a different bullet before you try a different powder. You didn't mention what caliber you are shooting nor barrel twist rate. Definately a node between 42.5 - 43.5 but not enough shots fired to tell about the higher charge loads. I make three identical targets (one inch horizontal lines with an orange bulleye) and do the test three times then overlay the targets to see where the nodes show up. It uses up more components but the results are always pretty telling.

 

[FALex]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It really looks like theres a solid node at 42.5 to 43.5. That seems like a little light on the powder though. Out of all of the loads, the only one that showed any pressure signs is the 46gr had a slightly rough bolt. BUT this was only on one of them and not the other, and looking at the brass the primers don't show any signs. </div></div>

A wise man once told me, "more powder does not necessarily equal better accuracy..." He also noted,usually, the max charge weight is the most inconsistent with regards to velocities. I have personally experienced this, but I am sure it's probably not a universally applicable rule, either. All rifles being so different from one another and all... I was under the impression that more powder was better. In my flawed thinking, higher velocities would allow me to reach farther targets. This is true, but only to a point. Reaching the targets are one thing...hitting them is a whole different ballgame

 

[flashhole]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

Hmmmmm ... choosing between a high velocity accurate load and a low velocity accurate load ... seems kind of obvious to me.

 

[timelinex]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FALex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It really looks like theres a solid node at 42.5 to 43.5. That seems like a little light on the powder though. Out of all of the loads, the only one that showed any pressure signs is the 46gr had a slightly rough bolt. BUT this was only on one of them and not the other, and looking at the brass the primers don't show any signs. </div></div>

A wise man once told me, "more powder does not necessarily equal better accuracy..." He also noted,usually, the max charge weight is the most inconsistent with regards to velocities. I have personally experienced this, but I am sure it's probably not a universally applicable rule, either. All rifles being so different from one another and all... I was under the impression that more powder was better. In my flawed thinking, higher velocities would allow me to reach farther targets. This is true, but only to a point. Reaching the targets are one thing...hitting them is a whole different ballgame

</div></div>

I wouldn't sacrifice accuracy for velocity, but as someone said right before me, if both loads are accurate than more velocity is better( as long as no pressure problems)

My main question is.. If I do the OCW test at 100 yards like recommended.. Will this get me my best load, for LR as well. Or could it leave me with a load that does well at 100yds but not 500+.

 

[topgun99]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

42 gr. Ramshot TAC with 168 gr. Hornady AMax out of my Savage produces consistent sub moa groups out to 300 yards.

 

[Lockback]

Re: First ladder test 308 savage, interpretation help

keep in mind that a 175 smk by nature doesn't fully stabilize and go to sleep til around 300yds. do the test at 100 so you can rule out variables such as wind ect...that longer ranges can have an effect on. find the load that is most accurate at 100 chrono the load and take it to 500 to see if its still holding as tight or tighter. anything above 2550 has enough ass behind it to reach to 1000 and most my shooting is at sea level to 100ft above. I've found 6 different load recipes for 175 in 3 different rifles this way and it worked great for me. I dont worry about burning up alot of components doing load development as I want to be certain the load will work for its intended purpose and when I miss i want to know it was my error not my equipment. so you'll fire alot of rounds developing the perfect load, at least you'll know for sure the load is the tits and ever round fired is practice anyway. I usually work up 2 loads one with 168 smk for 100 to 600 yd shooting and 175 smk for 500 on out to wherever. You can make 175 more accurate under 300 yds by backing way back on the charges but it will be worthless further down range. I've only seen one time where the max charge was by far the most accurate. Anyway you do it just have fun be consistent, consistancy always equals better accuracy and take lots of notes. just my two cents worth of actually experience loading and shooting.
Regards,
Rusty