Tried a search but haven't found anything. I see a lot of ammo in steel casings instead of brass. Are these bad for use in an AR? I would imagine they aren't as good for reloading?
- Thread starter Gledeasy
- Start date
Re: 223 ammo
steel and aluminum cases cannot be reloaded. steel cases are not really bad, but they are alot short of being good. number one; they are STEEL (hard, not soft like brass) in a steel barrel. number 2: they are coated with lacquer. real treat: cleaning melted and burnt lacquer out of a ar chamber. reserved for the infidel. if you must use steel cased in your ar, slow fire only as that minimizes the lacquer build-up. still nasty to clean. p.s. it will eventually gum up the works. ask me how i know.
steel and aluminum cases cannot be reloaded. steel cases are not really bad, but they are alot short of being good. number one; they are STEEL (hard, not soft like brass) in a steel barrel. number 2: they are coated with lacquer. real treat: cleaning melted and burnt lacquer out of a ar chamber. reserved for the infidel. if you must use steel cased in your ar, slow fire only as that minimizes the lacquer build-up. still nasty to clean. p.s. it will eventually gum up the works. ask me how i know.
Re: 223 ammo
Steel and aluminum can be reloaded, it is just really harsh on dies and does not have the mailability of brass to be reformed properly. I do not use steel anything unless it is a very cheap rifle that I do not care really about longevity overall. IMO steel is very tough on every part of the action. Spend the little bit more and get brass... Got information very recently from Cabellas for 6.99/20 free shipping (brass cased). Good luck.
Steel and aluminum can be reloaded, it is just really harsh on dies and does not have the mailability of brass to be reformed properly. I do not use steel anything unless it is a very cheap rifle that I do not care really about longevity overall. IMO steel is very tough on every part of the action. Spend the little bit more and get brass... Got information very recently from Cabellas for 6.99/20 free shipping (brass cased). Good luck.
Re: 223 ammo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gledeasy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tried a search but haven't found anything. I see a lot of ammo in steel casings instead of brass. Are these bad for use in an AR? I would imagine they aren't as good for reloading? </div></div>
I don't reload, therefore, I shoot & practice w/Hornady Steel Match...I have never had a problem with my AR's, FAL's, or M1's. Also, cleaning hasn't been any different in terms of when I use brass loaded ammo. I believe the Russian branded ammo (Wolf, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, Tula, etc.) has been problematic for a few people though.
AvsFan
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gledeasy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tried a search but haven't found anything. I see a lot of ammo in steel casings instead of brass. Are these bad for use in an AR? I would imagine they aren't as good for reloading? </div></div>
I don't reload, therefore, I shoot & practice w/Hornady Steel Match...I have never had a problem with my AR's, FAL's, or M1's. Also, cleaning hasn't been any different in terms of when I use brass loaded ammo. I believe the Russian branded ammo (Wolf, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, Tula, etc.) has been problematic for a few people though.
AvsFan
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Re: 223 ammo
you dont reload steel cases, its just for plinkin....
however....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: truman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">steel and aluminum cases cannot be reloaded. steel cases are not really bad, but they are alot short of being good. number one; they are STEEL (hard, not soft like brass) in a steel barrel. <span style="color: #FF0000">number 2: they are coated with lacquer. real treat: cleaning melted and burnt lacquer out of a ar chamber. reserved for the infidel. if you must use steel cased in your ar, slow fire only as that minimizes the lacquer build-up. still nasty to clean. p.s. it will eventually gum up the works. ask me how i know.</span> </div></div>
this is a myth, manufactures don't coat steel cases with a lacquer coating that will "build up"
this is simply not true, please don't worry about it gumming up your AR, just perform regular maintenance, lubrication, and upkeep on your gun and you should have no problems firing thousands and thousands of steel rounds.
you dont reload steel cases, its just for plinkin....
however....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: truman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">steel and aluminum cases cannot be reloaded. steel cases are not really bad, but they are alot short of being good. number one; they are STEEL (hard, not soft like brass) in a steel barrel. <span style="color: #FF0000">number 2: they are coated with lacquer. real treat: cleaning melted and burnt lacquer out of a ar chamber. reserved for the infidel. if you must use steel cased in your ar, slow fire only as that minimizes the lacquer build-up. still nasty to clean. p.s. it will eventually gum up the works. ask me how i know.</span> </div></div>
this is a myth, manufactures don't coat steel cases with a lacquer coating that will "build up"
this is simply not true, please don't worry about it gumming up your AR, just perform regular maintenance, lubrication, and upkeep on your gun and you should have no problems firing thousands and thousands of steel rounds.
Re: 223 ammo
Thanks for the input guys. I was told a few years ago that steel casings were ok for bolt guns but not semi-auto. However when I was shooting them with a bolt gun, round three the casing got stuck in the chamber. Because of that incident I will probably not use steel again, but since I recently got my first AR it got me to thinking of the subject again.
Thanks for the input guys. I was told a few years ago that steel casings were ok for bolt guns but not semi-auto. However when I was shooting them with a bolt gun, round three the casing got stuck in the chamber. Because of that incident I will probably not use steel again, but since I recently got my first AR it got me to thinking of the subject again.
Re: 223 ammo
Hornady aside a solid rule of thumb? "American rifle american ammo, commie rifle commie ammo".
I understand it to be a polymer coating melting from strings of fire depositing small beads and then letting a round sit in the chamberas melting the coating as it cools, gluing the case in the chamber.
A issue in a AR but not AK, case shape.
Hornady aside a solid rule of thumb? "American rifle american ammo, commie rifle commie ammo".
I understand it to be a polymer coating melting from strings of fire depositing small beads and then letting a round sit in the chamberas melting the coating as it cools, gluing the case in the chamber.
A issue in a AR but not AK, case shape.
Re: 223 ammo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EagleSout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
this is a myth, manufactures don't coat steel cases with a lacquer coating that will "build up"
</div></div>
WRONG. Certain steel cased ammo DOES have a lacquer coat and it DOES get in the chamber and need cleaning out.
Steel cased ammo is coated because it doesn't melt nicely like brass does, so it has a tendency to stick in rifle chambers, happens all the time. Manufacturers either copper wash or coat steel case ammo with either lacquer or polymer coatings to help get the casing back out of the chamber.
The tighter your chamber, the more likely you are to have problems. Hence the reason ARs choke on steel more often than AKs, theyre generally more precise tolerances.
The lacquer coated steel case is greenish, and WILL leave a small residue, won't really "build up", but still needs cleaning:
The polymer coated steel case is flat gray and doesn't come off nearly as much as the lacquer ones (this is what most russian commercial is now):
The last type of coating that isn't around much anymore but used to be the only thing going is copper washed cases, Norinco and EARLY ruskie ammo have this, its obvious because the casing matches the bullet:
NOW, as far as Hornady Steel goes, its NOT AMERICAN. Hornady is rebranding RUSSIAN cases. Don't believe me?, look at the headstamp. It's Barnaul, aka Wolf.
So don't spend the extra money on Hornady Steel unless you specifically want their bullets, as the casing is still Ruskie.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EagleSout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
this is a myth, manufactures don't coat steel cases with a lacquer coating that will "build up"
</div></div>
WRONG. Certain steel cased ammo DOES have a lacquer coat and it DOES get in the chamber and need cleaning out.
Steel cased ammo is coated because it doesn't melt nicely like brass does, so it has a tendency to stick in rifle chambers, happens all the time. Manufacturers either copper wash or coat steel case ammo with either lacquer or polymer coatings to help get the casing back out of the chamber.
The tighter your chamber, the more likely you are to have problems. Hence the reason ARs choke on steel more often than AKs, theyre generally more precise tolerances.
The lacquer coated steel case is greenish, and WILL leave a small residue, won't really "build up", but still needs cleaning:
The polymer coated steel case is flat gray and doesn't come off nearly as much as the lacquer ones (this is what most russian commercial is now):
The last type of coating that isn't around much anymore but used to be the only thing going is copper washed cases, Norinco and EARLY ruskie ammo have this, its obvious because the casing matches the bullet:
NOW, as far as Hornady Steel goes, its NOT AMERICAN. Hornady is rebranding RUSSIAN cases. Don't believe me?, look at the headstamp. It's Barnaul, aka Wolf.
So don't spend the extra money on Hornady Steel unless you specifically want their bullets, as the casing is still Ruskie.
Re: 223 ammo
I keep my AR on a steady diet of Federal Lake City 5.56 NATO 62 Grain XM855F FMJ.
It's relatively inexpensive if bought in bulk and most of the big online ammo discounters usually have it in stock.
I keep my AR on a steady diet of Federal Lake City 5.56 NATO 62 Grain XM855F FMJ.
It's relatively inexpensive if bought in bulk and most of the big online ammo discounters usually have it in stock.
Re: 223 ammo
My LaRue Stealth upper does not like steel cased ammo. After about 75rds, the cases start sticking in the chamber. My buddy's homebrew AR15 with Noveske barrel does fine with steel case ammo. YMMV.
My LaRue Stealth upper does not like steel cased ammo. After about 75rds, the cases start sticking in the chamber. My buddy's homebrew AR15 with Noveske barrel does fine with steel case ammo. YMMV.
Re: 223 ammo
The short answer to whether steel cased ammo is bad for an AR is NO. It won't hurt the rifle. The question of whether a particular AR will run on steel cased ammo is another question entirely.
Lots of guys with $1K+ ARs or ARs that they built themselves are quick to blame the ammo, when their rifle won't run on it.
First, the coating on steel cased ammo (polymer or lacquer) WILL NOT come off in the chamber. I'll tell you this too, if it did come off due to excessive heat or whatever, you ain't gettin' it out with Hoppe's No. 9 and a bronze brush. After having seen a demonstration, I tried a little test my self.
I took an unfired cartridge. I used a bullet puller to remove the projectile. I chambered the primed case and fired the primer, so there was no heat build up. I then took the now dead case, put it in a vice and proceeded to heat it to red hot with a torch; and guess what? Nothing melted, dripped, came off or anything.
The steel used in ammo is very soft. A lot softer than the parts of a rifle that they come into contact with. The problem or issue associated with steel cased ammo is that, although it expands upon firing like brass, it doesn't contract at the same rate that brass does.
If you have a barrel that has a slightly out of spec gas port (a bit too big) and/or you have a chamber that is out of spec and is a bit on the tight side and/or you are shooting a carbine length gas system and/or a combination of the above, you may have problems with shooting steel cased ammo.
What it boils down to is this (just my opinion), if your rifle won't shoot steel, there's something wrong with it. Not really a big deal. You can either get it fixed or don't shoot steel.
For me, I save enough time and money shooting steel cased, that if I put a rifle together that won't shoot steel, I'll fix it.
At $250 per thousand the savings easily pays for the expenditure.
My AR, which is a franken build, topped 6K rounds without being cleaned and most of that was Bear ammo.
The short answer to whether steel cased ammo is bad for an AR is NO. It won't hurt the rifle. The question of whether a particular AR will run on steel cased ammo is another question entirely.
Lots of guys with $1K+ ARs or ARs that they built themselves are quick to blame the ammo, when their rifle won't run on it.
First, the coating on steel cased ammo (polymer or lacquer) WILL NOT come off in the chamber. I'll tell you this too, if it did come off due to excessive heat or whatever, you ain't gettin' it out with Hoppe's No. 9 and a bronze brush. After having seen a demonstration, I tried a little test my self.
I took an unfired cartridge. I used a bullet puller to remove the projectile. I chambered the primed case and fired the primer, so there was no heat build up. I then took the now dead case, put it in a vice and proceeded to heat it to red hot with a torch; and guess what? Nothing melted, dripped, came off or anything.
The steel used in ammo is very soft. A lot softer than the parts of a rifle that they come into contact with. The problem or issue associated with steel cased ammo is that, although it expands upon firing like brass, it doesn't contract at the same rate that brass does.
If you have a barrel that has a slightly out of spec gas port (a bit too big) and/or you have a chamber that is out of spec and is a bit on the tight side and/or you are shooting a carbine length gas system and/or a combination of the above, you may have problems with shooting steel cased ammo.
What it boils down to is this (just my opinion), if your rifle won't shoot steel, there's something wrong with it. Not really a big deal. You can either get it fixed or don't shoot steel.
For me, I save enough time and money shooting steel cased, that if I put a rifle together that won't shoot steel, I'll fix it.
At $250 per thousand the savings easily pays for the expenditure.
My AR, which is a franken build, topped 6K rounds without being cleaned and most of that was Bear ammo.
Re: 223 ammo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EagleSout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
this is a myth, manufactures don't coat steel cases with a lacquer coating that will "build up"
</div></div>
WRONG. Certain steel cased ammo DOES have a lacquer coat and it DOES get in the chamber and need cleaning out.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Steel cased ammo is coated because it doesn't melt nicely like brass does, so it has a tendency to stick in rifle chambers, happens all the time</span>. Manufacturers either copper wash or coat steel case ammo with either lacquer or polymer coatings to help get the casing back out of the chamber.
The tighter your chamber, the more likely you are to have problems. Hence the reason ARs choke on steel more often than AKs, theyre generally more precise tolerances.
The lacquer coated steel case is greenish, and WILL leave a small residue, won't really "build up", but still needs cleaning:
The polymer coated steel case is flat gray and doesn't come off nearly as much as the lacquer ones (this is what most russian commercial is now):
The last type of coating that isn't around much anymore but used to be the only thing going is copper washed cases, Norinco and EARLY ruskie ammo have this, its obvious because the casing matches the bullet:
NOW, as far as Hornady Steel goes, its NOT AMERICAN. Hornady is rebranding RUSSIAN cases. Don't believe me?, look at the headstamp. It's Barnaul, aka Wolf.
So don't spend the extra money on Hornady Steel unless you specifically want their bullets, as the casing is still Ruskie. </div></div>
if you read my post carefully you basically just called me wrong and proceeded to elaborate on what I just said.
they do have a coating, yes, but it does not melt and build up on the chamber.....ask me how i know....
and brass does not melt in the chamber....it expands
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EagleSout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
this is a myth, manufactures don't coat steel cases with a lacquer coating that will "build up"
</div></div>
WRONG. Certain steel cased ammo DOES have a lacquer coat and it DOES get in the chamber and need cleaning out.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Steel cased ammo is coated because it doesn't melt nicely like brass does, so it has a tendency to stick in rifle chambers, happens all the time</span>. Manufacturers either copper wash or coat steel case ammo with either lacquer or polymer coatings to help get the casing back out of the chamber.
The tighter your chamber, the more likely you are to have problems. Hence the reason ARs choke on steel more often than AKs, theyre generally more precise tolerances.
The lacquer coated steel case is greenish, and WILL leave a small residue, won't really "build up", but still needs cleaning:
The polymer coated steel case is flat gray and doesn't come off nearly as much as the lacquer ones (this is what most russian commercial is now):
The last type of coating that isn't around much anymore but used to be the only thing going is copper washed cases, Norinco and EARLY ruskie ammo have this, its obvious because the casing matches the bullet:
NOW, as far as Hornady Steel goes, its NOT AMERICAN. Hornady is rebranding RUSSIAN cases. Don't believe me?, look at the headstamp. It's Barnaul, aka Wolf.
So don't spend the extra money on Hornady Steel unless you specifically want their bullets, as the casing is still Ruskie. </div></div>
if you read my post carefully you basically just called me wrong and proceeded to elaborate on what I just said.
they do have a coating, yes, but it does not melt and build up on the chamber.....ask me how i know....
and brass does not melt in the chamber....it expands
Re: 223 ammo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The short answer to whether steel cased ammo is bad for an AR is NO. It won't hurt the rifle. The question of whether a particular AR will run on steel cased ammo is another question entirely.
Lots of guys with $1K+ ARs or ARs that they built themselves are quick to blame the ammo, when their rifle won't run on it.
First, the coating on steel cased ammo (polymer or lacquer) WILL NOT come off in the chamber. I'll tell you this too, if it did come off due to excessive heat or whatever, you ain't gettin' it out with Hoppe's No. 9 and a bronze brush. After having seen a demonstration, I tried a little test my self.
I took an unfired cartridge. I used a bullet puller to remove the projectile. I chambered the primed case and fired the primer, so there was no heat build up. I then took the now dead case, put it in a vice and proceeded to heat it to red hot with a torch; and guess what? Nothing melted, dripped, came off or anything.
The steel used in ammo is very soft. A lot softer than the parts of a rifle that they come into contact with. The problem or issue associated with steel cased ammo is that, although it expands upon firing like brass, it doesn't contract at the same rate that brass does.
If you have a barrel that has a slightly out of spec gas port (a bit too big) and/or you have a chamber that is out of spec and is a bit on the tight side and/or you are shooting a carbine length gas system and/or a combination of the above, you may have problems with shooting steel cased ammo.
What it boils down to is this (just my opinion), if your rifle won't shoot steel, there's something wrong with it. Not really a big deal. You can either get it fixed or don't shoot steel.
For me, I save enough time and money shooting steel cased, that if I put a rifle together that won't shoot steel, I'll fix it.
At $250 per thousand the savings easily pays for the expenditure.
My AR, which is a franken build, topped 6K rounds without being cleaned and most of that was Bear ammo. </div></div>
to the original poster, this is the most detailed explanation here and I also agree with this here
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The short answer to whether steel cased ammo is bad for an AR is NO. It won't hurt the rifle. The question of whether a particular AR will run on steel cased ammo is another question entirely.
Lots of guys with $1K+ ARs or ARs that they built themselves are quick to blame the ammo, when their rifle won't run on it.
First, the coating on steel cased ammo (polymer or lacquer) WILL NOT come off in the chamber. I'll tell you this too, if it did come off due to excessive heat or whatever, you ain't gettin' it out with Hoppe's No. 9 and a bronze brush. After having seen a demonstration, I tried a little test my self.
I took an unfired cartridge. I used a bullet puller to remove the projectile. I chambered the primed case and fired the primer, so there was no heat build up. I then took the now dead case, put it in a vice and proceeded to heat it to red hot with a torch; and guess what? Nothing melted, dripped, came off or anything.
The steel used in ammo is very soft. A lot softer than the parts of a rifle that they come into contact with. The problem or issue associated with steel cased ammo is that, although it expands upon firing like brass, it doesn't contract at the same rate that brass does.
If you have a barrel that has a slightly out of spec gas port (a bit too big) and/or you have a chamber that is out of spec and is a bit on the tight side and/or you are shooting a carbine length gas system and/or a combination of the above, you may have problems with shooting steel cased ammo.
What it boils down to is this (just my opinion), if your rifle won't shoot steel, there's something wrong with it. Not really a big deal. You can either get it fixed or don't shoot steel.
For me, I save enough time and money shooting steel cased, that if I put a rifle together that won't shoot steel, I'll fix it.
At $250 per thousand the savings easily pays for the expenditure.
My AR, which is a franken build, topped 6K rounds without being cleaned and most of that was Bear ammo. </div></div>
to the original poster, this is the most detailed explanation here and I also agree with this here
Re: 223 ammo
I agree with 90% of what has been stated here. Older (like10 plus years ago) there was a lot of comm bloc ammo that was lacquer coated and would stick up a Mosin-Nagant chamber. Trust me, I know. But even that wasn't to much of a problem if you burnished the chamber with a 20 gage shotgun brush and some solvent. The comm bloc ammo on the market today is all polymer coated and is no problem. My only issue with Wolf, Tula, etc. is that it is dirty as Hell. Maybe they mix the powder with Yak shit or something. Anyhow the powder residue is a pain, but not unmanageable.
I agree with 90% of what has been stated here. Older (like10 plus years ago) there was a lot of comm bloc ammo that was lacquer coated and would stick up a Mosin-Nagant chamber. Trust me, I know. But even that wasn't to much of a problem if you burnished the chamber with a 20 gage shotgun brush and some solvent. The comm bloc ammo on the market today is all polymer coated and is no problem. My only issue with Wolf, Tula, etc. is that it is dirty as Hell. Maybe they mix the powder with Yak shit or something. Anyhow the powder residue is a pain, but not unmanageable.
Re: 223 ammo
I shoot steel cased ammo almost exclusively through my carbines. As long as the carbine is quality, and has a proper 5.56mm chamber, the steel ammo should work without any issues.
I generally don't use steel for "precision" rifles.
I shoot steel cased ammo almost exclusively through my carbines. As long as the carbine is quality, and has a proper 5.56mm chamber, the steel ammo should work without any issues.
I generally don't use steel for "precision" rifles.
Re: 223 ammo
The steel case does not expand to the chamber like brass, which means that additional carbon will blow back alongside the case and build up in the chamber. This is the reason that brass sticks in the chamber when shooting after a lot of steel. FWIW, I shoot a metric shit-ton of the polymer coated Wolf 55gr. and I have not had a single problem.
The steel case does not expand to the chamber like brass, which means that additional carbon will blow back alongside the case and build up in the chamber. This is the reason that brass sticks in the chamber when shooting after a lot of steel. FWIW, I shoot a metric shit-ton of the polymer coated Wolf 55gr. and I have not had a single problem.
Re: 223 ammo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960
I have shot thousands of rounds of steel cased and/or steel core ammo through my AR's with no ill effect. However, you cannot reload steel cases.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960
I have shot thousands of rounds of steel cased and/or steel core ammo through my AR's with no ill effect. However, you cannot reload steel cases.
