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Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

C

cmor

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 31, 2012
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Robert called and said that my rifle was ready, and he offered to bring it to me to make sure that I was happy. I couldn't let him drive the 10 hours, and I wanted to see his shop etc., so I made the trip to his place.

The rifle is a 308, Surgeon 591 action, McMillan A5 stock, Jewell trigger ..... the good stuff.

We started shooting it, and had a few good one-hole groups, but in general they ranged from 1/2" to 5/8" at 100 yards. I bet we shot a hundred rounds with a dozen different load combinations. I thought is was pretty good considering I'm a rook at best and was probably the cause of at least part of the problem, but Robert was not happy.

He got on the phone with a fellow smith who had new raw barrel nearby, drove to get it, and started machining at around 10:00 pm. I fell asleep at around midnight and was up again before 7:00am. Robert was working when I went to sleep and when I got up - if he got any sleep it wasn't much.

By 10:00 am the next morning he had all the machining on the new barrel done we were back to shooting. My first 3 groups with factory ammo could all be covered with a dime. The 4th group with Robert's hand load was even better.

In my humble opinion, it is best to judge a man by how he handles bad situations. It is safe to say that I think rather highly of how Robert handled this one.

BTW, I am not a competition guy, or someone who writes articles, that he needed to impress. I'm just a guy that he had never met who ordered a rifle.

I should add that the problem was not his doing. The barrel just wasn't up to par. He said it's one of only 2 or 3 he has had to return to this barrel maker in 10 years.

IMG_0079.jpg

 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

wow, that is really impressive, have read a few posts on him, and can honestly say, he seems to go above, and beyond in his customer service, great post, and welcome to the forum
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cmor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We started shooting it, and had a few good one-hole groups, but in general they ranged from 1/2" to 5/8" at 100 yards. ...Robert was not happy.

In my humble opinion, it is best to judge a man by how he handles bad situations. It is safe to say that I think rather highly of how Robert handled this one.</div></div>

Mr. Gradous did not handle a "bad" situation. He handled a pretty good one and made it F(*&%*in awesome!
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

I am now counting the days when I can head back to the states to build my next one with him.

$2,000 for flights and car rentals
$1,000s for rifles parts and a scope

Time with Robert "Priceless!!"
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

I've only spoken to Robert on the phone about a build that I "might" do and he was absolutely a delight to speak with. I'm sure that this type of service/advice that goes above and beyond the norm doesn't help the bottom line. However, I'm confident that if he keeps it up nothing but good will come his way.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

He would not let me leave until I was happy with the work he did on my factory rifle. I was so impressed, we are now going to build a custom in September.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Man, that is AWESOME.. Gun was only shooting 5/8" group and he wasnt happy, wanted more and completely redid the barrel for you is going way above and beyond for customer service. In the next few months, I am going for my first custom build precision rifle, was planning on going GAP, but stories like this and the last couple really make me want to go Gradous now, but i think Gradous is also much expensive.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Here's a pic of the 4th 3 shot group shot from the rifle at 100 yards, by me - a rookie.

[img:left]
IMG_0080.jpg
[/img]
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

the local smith you referred to...was it Joe Collier of Collier Rifles??
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Robert's one of the most standup guys in the business. You cannot go wrong with him.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: REL1203</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man, that is AWESOME.. Gun was only shooting 5/8" group and he wasnt happy, wanted more and completely redid the barrel for you is going way above and beyond for customer service. In the next few months, I am going for my first custom build precision rifle, was planning on going GAP, but stories like this and the last couple really make me want to go Gradous now, but i think Gradous is also much expensive. </div></div>

I really do not think Robert's pricing is much more than other smiths ($1,250) when you supply the parts.

Let's say it take 50hrs to build one of his rifles from start to finish. $1,250/50= $25.00hr. Then you deduct the hourly cost to pay his helper. The costs of insurance, consumables (oils, bits, tools) Not to mention all the free hours he spends on the phone talking to people who want him to build a rifle for them(not including the tire kickers). To me his prices are more than reasonable. Sure you can find someone cheaper but are you going to get the extreme quality and customer service that you would receive from Robert?

It is like comparing a Ford to a Cadillac.

Couple of items to think about:

How often do you see one of his rifles for sale?

How many times have you read or heard someone complaining about his rifles or his service?

Please take if from my years of experience and the spending of 10 of thousands of dollars on custom rifles I have not found anyone that can build a better rifle or a better man to work with.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Well put Shar.

I know that I'm sold.

Looking forward to future builds with him.

260
7mmSTW
300 Norma
338 Norma

Are all on my wish list.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: REL1203</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man, that is AWESOME.. Gun was only shooting 5/8" group and he wasnt happy, wanted more and completely redid the barrel for you is going way above and beyond for customer service. In the next few months, I am going for my first custom build precision rifle, was planning on going GAP, but stories like this and the last couple really make me want to go Gradous now, but i think Gradous is also much expensive. </div></div>

I really do not think Robert's pricing is much more than other smiths ($1,250) when you supply the parts.

Let's say it take 50hrs to build one of his rifles from start to finish. $1,250/50= $25.00hr. Then you deduct the hourly cost to pay his helper. The costs of insurance, consumables (oils, bits, tools) Not to mention all the free hours he spends on the phone talking to people who want him to build a rifle for them(not including the tire kickers). To me his prices are more than reasonable. Sure you can find someone cheaper but are you going to get the extreme quality and customer service that you would receive from Robert?

It is like comparing a Ford to a Cadillac.

Couple of items to think about:

How often do you see one of his rifles for sale?

How many times have you read or heard someone complaining about his rifles or his service?

Please take if from my years of experience and the spending of 10 of thousands of dollars on custom rifles I have not found anyone that can build a better rifle or a better man to work with.
</div></div>

I totally agree, many people pay for other stuff such as boat repair to the tune of $75 an hour. When you think of the quality of work, skill and craftmanship that Robert puts into his rifles, you are getting a bargin! Roberts work is second to none!!
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: REL1203</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man, that is AWESOME.. Gun was only shooting 5/8" group and he wasnt happy, wanted more and completely redid the barrel for you is going way above and beyond for customer service. In the next few months, I am going for my first custom build precision rifle, was planning on going GAP, but stories like this and the last couple really make me want to go Gradous now, but i think Gradous is also much expensive. </div></div>

I really do not think Robert's pricing is much more than other smiths ($1,250) when you supply the parts.

Let's say it take 50hrs to build one of his rifles from start to finish. $1,250/50= $25.00hr. Then you deduct the hourly cost to pay his helper. The costs of insurance, consumables (oils, bits, tools) Not to mention all the free hours he spends on the phone talking to people who want him to build a rifle for them(not including the tire kickers). To me his prices are more than reasonable. Sure you can find someone cheaper but are you going to get the extreme quality and customer service that you would receive from Robert?

It is like comparing a Ford to a Cadillac.

Couple of items to think about:

How often do you see one of his rifles for sale?

How many times have you read or heard someone complaining about his rifles or his service?

Please take if from my years of experience and the spending of 10 of thousands of dollars on custom rifles I have not found anyone that can build a better rifle or a better man to work with.
</div></div>

You do make some great points, thanks for responding to my question with some excellent points, I appreicate that. I am going to think long and hard about it.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

The true measure of a man's character is not what he does when people are watching, but what he does when no one is watching. Seems to me Mr. Gradous is one outstanding man. Hoping one day I will own one of his rifles.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

And Robert builds one hell of a gun.....

This is a 3 shot group from a 6.5Lapua he built for me

group01.jpg


This same gun shot a 3" group at 720 yds recently
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Let's just hope that the up and coming gunsmiths learn this trait and have it in them to carry this professionalism forward. Service, craftsmanship and pride in an epic format.

Man of character and integrity - defined. Mad skills i'd say too.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And Robert builds one hell of a gun.....

This is a 3 shot group from a 6.5Lapua he built for me

group01.jpg


This same gun shot a 3" group at 720 yds recently</div></div>

It is a mirror image of the targets I have shot with the 6.5 Lapua he built me.Robert said he is quite sure I will get the same with the new 260
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The true measure of a man's character is not what he does when people are watching, but what he does when no one is watching. Seems to me Mr. Gradous is one outstanding man. Hoping one day I will own one of his rifles.
</div></div>

1+
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Wow...all I can say.

You probably would have been satisfied with the rifle. I would have been, too. 1/2" groups, barrel not broken in, load development not done...what's not to like.

Obviously, Mr. Gradous knew better.

It's rare in any business, when an owner does extra work, at his own expense- to "fix" something that wasn't really an issue in his customer's eyes.

That's a "no compromise" guy there.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

The final barrel was made by Bartlien.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

A great story that is more about self respect than customer service. CMOR was perfectly happy with the performance of Mr. Gradous' build. Mr. Gradous was not. He was unwilling to let a rifle out the door that did not meet his standards.

He new that his action work, bedding, etc. would not produce that kind of performance and that the barrrel would be the culprit. This is about a craftsman with so much pride in his work that the only thing that will suffice is the very best reflection of his abilities. We are extremely fortunate that guys like this are around.

Now, dropping everything else, getting another barrel, spending the day putting it on and making sure that CMOR went home with a rifle that reflected Mr. Gradous's abilities. That is customer service.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Buidling a rifle with Mr Gradous was a great experience ,I really enjoyed it. This story doesn't surprise me, Mr Gradous is a stickler in terms of details and expectations. He expects great performance from things that go through his shop. He goes out of his way to make a great product and insure a great experience.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Once you become familiar with Robert & his work you will find that for me it is as honor to shoot one of his rifles. Many of us that know Robert, are not really surprised by his conduct with your rifle. This is how the man operates. Top shelf all the way. I'm sure that you will be very happy with your rifle.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

The man is simply one of the nicest gentleman you will ever meet. It was a real pleasure to have spent an entire day with him.

Gil Horsley
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

I have made some progress - I would say that I am now an advanced rookie. This rifle has been a joy to learn with, but I have run into a problem of sorts. It is hard to do load development when I can't find anything that it won't shoot well.

This was my best 5 shot group today.

gradous308berger175.jpg
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Not yet, but I do have a box of them.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Swag,

Do you happen to have one of his 308's with a 24 inch barrel? If so would you mind sharing your 155 load? I'm a rook, but I do know enough to work up to it.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Fantastic all the way around. This makes me want a rifle built by Robert asap.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Absolutely amazing.
One day I'll have the parts & cash to do the gunsmithing class.

Building my own rifle falls right behind flying in a fighter jet on my list of "must dos" before I die.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Take the load with the most consistently low variation, and don't look back
smile.gif
Also stretch your range out to 300 or so for load testing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cmor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have made some progress - I would say that I am now an advanced rookie. This rifle has been a joy to learn with, but I have run into a problem of sorts. It is hard to do load development when I can't find anything that it won't shoot well.
</div></div>
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

Much thanks for the great advise. I will use it.

A little about myself. I consider myself a decent freediver and speargun maker. I have a 3 axis CNC mill in my workshop, and know my way around work with carbon fiber, but I had never seen anyone work to less than .001 inches every time, with every dimension, before watching Robert Gradous machine a barrel.

I like the fact that this sport doesn't require diving to 70-100 feet on one breath to get a shot off, and there are no sharks involved.

Yea, some of this is to get people to call Robert. Why, because I think he is the best at what he does, and he treated me better than I expected.
169010_1510662778294_2327617_n1.jpg


163153_1498425592372_3872225_n1.jpg


14642_1136302539522_3085902_n1.jpg
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cmor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swag,

Do you happen to have one of his 308's with a 24 inch barrel? If so would you mind sharing your 155 load? I'm a rook, but I do know enough to work up to it. </div></div>

My Wifes rifle has a 20" 1:10 Bartlein barrel. Im loading Lapua brass / 45.0 gr IMR 8208XBR / Fed 210M primers / 155 Scenars .015" out of the lands. Im getting .1's and .2's at 100 yards and 1" or less at 300 yards.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

WOW! I just read an article about him yesterday, in which the author went to Robert's shop and built the rifle with him. I thought that was pretty cool, but I figured that since he was being featured in a magazine and people were paying an extra $1000 just to get to "help" build the rifle, the rifles themselves must cost a fortune. Glad to hear otherwise. I may look into this now. How long did it take from the time you ordered the rifle to the time you went to pick it up? Just wondering what kind of turn time to expect.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

My 308 was quick, but that's because he had all the components on-hand.

I have waited 6 months for the components to come in on the next build. Barrels, stocks and actions can all take a long time these days.

Call him, he will not mislead you.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

[
My Wifes rifle has a 20" 1:10 Bartlein barrel. Im loading Lapua brass / 45.0 gr IMR 8208XBR / Fed 210M primers / 155 Scenars .015" out of the lands. Im getting .1's and .2's at 100 yards and 1" or less at 300 yards. [/quote]

Thanks, I will get some IMR 8208XBR and give it a try.
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cmor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...A little about myself. I consider myself a decent freediver and speargun maker.
169010_1510662778294_2327617_n1.jpg


</div></div>

You speargun wahoo???!!! How many mils to lead a 60mph fish?
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob L. Swagger</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cmor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swag,

Do you happen to have one of his 308's with a 24 inch barrel? If so would you mind sharing your 155 load? I'm a rook, but I do know enough to work up to it. </div></div>

My Wifes rifle has a 20" 1:10 Bartlein barrel. Im loading Lapua brass / 45.0 gr IMR 8208XBR / Fed 210M primers / 155 Scenars .015" out of the lands. Im getting .1's and .2's at 100 yards and 1" or less at 300 yards.</div></div>

Do you have a velocity for this load?
 
Re: Robert Gradous - Problem Solved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rifleman700</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob L. Swagger</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cmor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swag,

Do you happen to have one of his 308's with a 24 inch barrel? If so would you mind sharing your 155 load? I'm a rook, but I do know enough to work up to it. </div></div>

My Wifes rifle has a 20" 1:10 Bartlein barrel. Im loading Lapua brass / 45.0 gr IMR 8208XBR / Fed 210M primers / 155 Scenars .015" out of the lands. Im getting .1's and .2's at 100 yards and 1" or less at 300 yards.</div></div>

Do you have a velocity for this load? </div></div>


2880 fps
 
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