F T/R Competition POI shift for Savage F/TR

[Pointy Headed Wizard]

Yes I can use the search feature and I know this topic has been covered in the past, but I have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered yet.

Recently I purchased a Savage F/TR in .308. I have about 100 rounds down the tube and noticed a significant POI shift as the barrel heats up. Depending on rate of fire (barrel temp) the POI is about 2 inches lower and 1 inch to left of a cold bore shot at 200 yards. This was noticed on a couple of different strings on different days. Both days the ambient temp was about 70 and I was shooting one round every 1 to 2 minutes, 15 to 20 rounds in a string.

I recognize that custom barrels are stress relieved and don't exhibit the same issue (at least to the same degree) but I'm not ready to swap out the barrel on a brand new gun.

So my questions are:
1) Will this POI shift be consistent throughout the life of the barrel? If not, will it get better or worse.
2) Is there anything that can be done to reduce the shift or should I learn to live with it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[seanhagerty]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

I would try bedding the action, and make sure the barrel is free floated.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

Check the bedding as mentioned above... but I did have one barrel a while (2008-2009) that did that. Shot great, but from a cold barrel (dirty or clean didn't seem to matter), first shot would be up about 1.5 moa and right about 1 moa. Took 3-4 shots to settle down, and trying to compensate for it never quite seemed to work the way I thought it would. @ 800yds with unlimited sighters, not a big deal. Shooting 900 immediately after, still held zero as it was still warm. But put the gun away and go pull targets and come back out for 1k, with only 2 sighters... was not a happy time. Eventually I did swap the barrel out - with another factory tube - which worked well up thru the 2009 FCWC and is currently sitting on my 'backup' gun.

 

[scaxeman]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

This seems to be a bit more "cold-bore shift" than I'm used to seeing, but not wildly out of the realm of possibility. I would normally see ~1" high, 1/2" right for a cold bore shot (at 200 yards). Making sure you have a dry bore (no excess solvent or oil, etc.) should help a little. Definitely check to see if you don't have some portion of the barrel contacting the stock, but I'd guess not.

Generally speaking, this cold-bore shift will have no impact at all on your competition shooting, as you will always have a couple of sighter rounds to get the barrel up to temp.

In my experience, this shift shouldn't change much over the life of the barrel, just keep it in mind when developing loads and chronographing.

Hope this helps,

Darrell

 

[HighRez]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

My .260 Model 12 LRP Savage has the factory 26" heavy barrel and is dead-on cold bore. No complaints there. But I have a Remington 700 24" 5R .308 that is always at least a MOA high and a MOA left on the first shot. 2nd shot is a bit better. By the 3rd shot it settles in and all is good. Since the Remmy was my first bolt gun, I thought for a long time it was my beginners shooting technique. Now I know it's the gun and I just expect it. It's obviously not just a Savage thing.

 

[Pointy Headed Wizard]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

Thanks for all of the replies. I had previously checked to ensure the barrel was floated when it was cold. Yesterday I checked at the end of my shooting session (about 50 rounds) when everything was pretty warm. I was able to slide a dollar under the barrel but it was a little tight near the barrel nut. I'll look at it closer when I adjust the trigger. Until then, I'll just plan on it happening for the first couple of sighters.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

I'd put new pillars in, bed it, and not clean it as much...

but that's me

 

[scaxeman]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not clean it as much...
</div></div>

+1 on this!

 

[Pointy Headed Wizard]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> and not clean it as much... </div></div>

Do less work...that's the kind of advice that's easy for me to follow.

 

[HighRez]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not clean it as much...
</div></div>

+1 on this! </div></div>

Really? I'm not trying to hijack the OP's thread, but now I'm confused. I've heard guys at the range talk about not cleaning until accuracy starts to suffer, but have read clean often from accomplished BR shooters and on various barrel makers websites. So, as a relatively new LR shooter, I'd like to know the real-world deal. What cleaning regimen do you regular F-TR shooters use?

 

[scaxeman]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

Let me preface this with: the following is applicable to .308 ONLY! Do not try this with 6.5-284, etc... !

Personally, I will often go in excess of 300 rounds without cleaning (especially if I'm at a big International match). The reason for this is that "unlimited sighters" for the first match of the day doesn't happen very often overseas. After cleaning, especially if you've done a *really* thorough job of it, it will take between 2 to 7 rounds to "re-foul" in to your barrel's preferred level of fouling for peak accuracy.

For the World Championships in England a few years back, I went almost 450 rounds without cleaning (with no loss of accuracy). To be sure, I'm running Varget for powder, which is on the clean side. If I was running a different powder, my response wouldn't be the same. Perfect example would be South Africa last month. I was forced to use a "local powder" load for a few days of their Nationals (Somchem). It was *filthy* stuff, and I had to clean every night. Fortunately, for the rest (longer range portions) of the 10 day match, I was able to run my "made in USA" ammo! No more daily cleaning!.

Hope this helps,

Darrell

 

[scottsnipe]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

What type of ammo are you shooting? I have had similar problems rifles that have been rebarreled so that doesnt mean rebarreling will solve your problem. Did a little load developing and groups tightened up significantly. Found out my load was a little too hot for the rifle and backed down the charge a little. Also you should confirm POI shift with another shooter just to eliminate user error.

 

[HighRez]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me preface this with: the following is applicable to .308 ONLY! Do not try this with 6.5-284, etc... !

</div></div>

And would that be because of something unique about the 6.5-284 or because that's what you happen to be shooting?

Seriously, thanks for the response Darrell. You and the other guys here are a big help to me and others getting started in LR.

 

[scaxeman]

Re: POI shift for Savage F/TR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HighRez</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And would that be because of something unique about the 6.5-284 or because that's what you happen to be shooting?

Seriously, thanks for the response Darrell. You and the other guys here are a big help to me and others getting started in LR. </div></div>

The 6.5-284 and other big "overbore" calibers tend to foul more heavily, building up a carbon ring that will have serious effects on accuracy after only 50-70 rounds. If you watch any of the top F-Open shooters, they clean EVERY day, after shooting is complete. My earlier statement about ".308 ONLY" was a bit of overkill, there are a bunch of calibers in the same boat as the .308 as far as their tolerance (and indeed preference for) fouled barrels.

There is a price to pay for the massively improved ballistics of the F-Open calibers!

I shoot a lot of stuff, but most of my competition stuff is .308, both sniper comps and long-range comps. It is one of my favorite calibers for most uses under 1233 yards!

Darrell