I have been trimming down 223 cases to form 300 blackout and I noticed when run the case through the 300 BLK full length sizer, the neck is not concentric and is either at a slight angle or the shoulder is more apparent on one side of the case than the other. I am using a redding die to size the cases. Has anyone else come up with this problem or am I just not sizing them correctly?
- Thread starter killerwaffles
- Start date
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
I've run only a couple hundred that started life as USAMU Fed Gold Medal short line loads. Other than loose primer pockets from their birthing, I didn't notice any problems. The necks weren't perfect, but by no means could I spot it with my eye. You are talking about brass with visually offset necks? By chance are you using new brass or brass previously run through small base dies? Have any pics?
Randy
I've run only a couple hundred that started life as USAMU Fed Gold Medal short line loads. Other than loose primer pockets from their birthing, I didn't notice any problems. The necks weren't perfect, but by no means could I spot it with my eye. You are talking about brass with visually offset necks? By chance are you using new brass or brass previously run through small base dies? Have any pics?
Randy
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
All of these are once fired 223 brass. I do not have any pics (Currently out of town) but i will take some when i get a chance. Some cases are more pronounced than others so i dont think it is the die but i could be wrong.
Also, what do you consider "loose" primer pockets? I swaged some of these cases and noticed very little to no resistance when setting the primers using a hand primer. i tried to poke the primers out but they didnt move but im not sure if that qualifies as a proper check.
All of these are once fired 223 brass. I do not have any pics (Currently out of town) but i will take some when i get a chance. Some cases are more pronounced than others so i dont think it is the die but i could be wrong.
Also, what do you consider "loose" primer pockets? I swaged some of these cases and noticed very little to no resistance when setting the primers using a hand primer. i tried to poke the primers out but they didnt move but im not sure if that qualifies as a proper check.
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
I have a 300 221. What I do is run them into the sizing die then trim to a rough length. Then I come back and do a final trim with a better cutter. Never had any problems doing it that way.
I have a 300 221. What I do is run them into the sizing die then trim to a rough length. Then I come back and do a final trim with a better cutter. Never had any problems doing it that way.
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
so i take it you had the expander rod removed when you sized the cases?
so i take it you had the expander rod removed when you sized the cases?
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
I've done a few hundred pieces of LC 5.56 brass and haven't had any problems.
- tumble
- resize with expander rod removed
- rough cut with cut off saw
- resize with expander rod to deprime
- trim/debur
- clean/swag/uniform primer pocket
- tumble
- prime/powder/bullet
I've done a few hundred pieces of LC 5.56 brass and haven't had any problems.
- tumble
- resize with expander rod removed
- rough cut with cut off saw
- resize with expander rod to deprime
- trim/debur
- clean/swag/uniform primer pocket
- tumble
- prime/powder/bullet
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
I will try it that way, it seems to be the most popular. What FL die do you use to reform your brass?
I will try it that way, it seems to be the most popular. What FL die do you use to reform your brass?
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killerwaffles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will try it that way, it seems to be the most popular. What FL die do you use to reform your brass?</div></div>
I have the Lee and the Forster FL dies. I prefer the Forster since you can simple unscrew the expander rod by hand instead of having to use tool on the Lee.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killerwaffles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will try it that way, it seems to be the most popular. What FL die do you use to reform your brass?</div></div>
I have the Lee and the Forster FL dies. I prefer the Forster since you can simple unscrew the expander rod by hand instead of having to use tool on the Lee.
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
Oh ok great, thanks for the help. I will see if that fixes the problem
Oh ok great, thanks for the help. I will see if that fixes the problem
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
I've never thought about how to define a loose primer pocket. . . For me it just means there is very little resistance felt when I seat the primer.. I use a 25 year old Lee Auto Prime. I'm not to worried about the loose pockets in a Rem 700, plus my paper targets never shoot back, or even run off for that matter. I've never had any leakage (which will show up as a smudge at the edge of the primer/primer pocket), so I suppose they are fine for my purposes.
I processed my brass by setting up a stop on a carbide blade metal chop saw. The cut is not very pretty, but it sure is fast. . . I FL sized in one pass with the decapping stem removed, then used a Lyman M die to expand the neck. I posted some about the process a year or so ago when I was seeing some excessive runout on the freshly formed necks. Again, nothing that would be apparent to my eye without a dial indicator.
By the way, Midway is now selling Remington primed brass at a decent price. My chamber is pre-Blackout (non-SAAMI), and has a long neck, so my brass was trimmed long to match. I trimmed 0.025" shorter than the length I measured using one of the Sinclair neck length plugs. Probably doesn't help accuracy, but can't hurt either, and since the formed brass had to be trimmed anyway, there was no extra effort to match my chamber.
Do you have any way of measuring the wall thickness of your parent cases to see if you have a lot of variation? You could spot gross problems with nothing more than the very forward edge of your dial caliper jaws where they come to a narrow edge. I'd hate to see you put a lot of effort into bad brass. . .
Keep us posted.
Randy
I've never thought about how to define a loose primer pocket. . . For me it just means there is very little resistance felt when I seat the primer.. I use a 25 year old Lee Auto Prime. I'm not to worried about the loose pockets in a Rem 700, plus my paper targets never shoot back, or even run off for that matter. I've never had any leakage (which will show up as a smudge at the edge of the primer/primer pocket), so I suppose they are fine for my purposes.
I processed my brass by setting up a stop on a carbide blade metal chop saw. The cut is not very pretty, but it sure is fast. . . I FL sized in one pass with the decapping stem removed, then used a Lyman M die to expand the neck. I posted some about the process a year or so ago when I was seeing some excessive runout on the freshly formed necks. Again, nothing that would be apparent to my eye without a dial indicator.
By the way, Midway is now selling Remington primed brass at a decent price. My chamber is pre-Blackout (non-SAAMI), and has a long neck, so my brass was trimmed long to match. I trimmed 0.025" shorter than the length I measured using one of the Sinclair neck length plugs. Probably doesn't help accuracy, but can't hurt either, and since the formed brass had to be trimmed anyway, there was no extra effort to match my chamber.
Do you have any way of measuring the wall thickness of your parent cases to see if you have a lot of variation? You could spot gross problems with nothing more than the very forward edge of your dial caliper jaws where they come to a narrow edge. I'd hate to see you put a lot of effort into bad brass. . .
Keep us posted.
Randy
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
yes with the expander removed. Then right before I load I expand the necks with the expander.
yes with the expander removed. Then right before I load I expand the necks with the expander.
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
Here's a simple jig I made for a cheap Harbor Freight mini chop saw...
[img:left]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5HKtn1UCJy6eVNYSDZXR3gwNnc[/img]
[img:left]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5HKtn1UCJy6VUpDVnZ1THd0aVU[/img]
[img:left]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5HKtn1UCJy6MUx2cHNUaUJhTlk[/img]
It helps a lot with removing long necks from .223 formed to 300 Whisper (what not)...
Here's a simple jig I made for a cheap Harbor Freight mini chop saw...
[img:left]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5HKtn1UCJy6eVNYSDZXR3gwNnc[/img]
[img:left]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5HKtn1UCJy6VUpDVnZ1THd0aVU[/img]
[img:left]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5HKtn1UCJy6MUx2cHNUaUJhTlk[/img]
It helps a lot with removing long necks from .223 formed to 300 Whisper (what not)...
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
does your brass chambers and ejects?? if so it fireformed and is good to go, If the fireformed brass gets resized and the problem persists, your die might not be perfectly aligned with you shell holder.
hope this helps.
does your brass chambers and ejects?? if so it fireformed and is good to go, If the fireformed brass gets resized and the problem persists, your die might not be perfectly aligned with you shell holder.
hope this helps.
Re: Forming 300 Blackout Brass
I tried the method you mentioned to size first, chop, trim, then size again with rod and it seemed to help. I still have some runout but I think there might be an issue with the rod. When I screw it into the die, the rod is clearly not concentric.
I tried the method you mentioned to size first, chop, trim, then size again with rod and it seemed to help. I still have some runout but I think there might be an issue with the rod. When I screw it into the die, the rod is clearly not concentric.
