FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

[recarga]

Hello

Got my forster co-ax press on the mail yesterday and like a kid with a new toy , rigorously opened the box and started to play with it.

Ran some neck dies and full size also with redding and forster dies on winchester brass 6.5/55 SE , neck concentricity a outstanding .001 .

But when I seated the bullets the RUN OUT went to .005 ( RCBS SEATING die standard )
I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong , I notice when I install the die and you know doing the way of putting a resized case you are suppose to screw the die until there is resistance on the shoulder but the die will touch the bottom of the sliding shell holder before I fell any resistance ,

I wonder if the die does not go far enough to were it can line the bullet on the neck

Best regard.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

Are you using the Forster lock rings on all of your dies?

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you using the Forster lock rings on all of your dies?</div></div>
^^ this. You can also try to leave the die a little sloppy loose and see if it changes. I have used an "O" ring between the lock ring and press before and in some cases it has reduced runout several thousandths. Also just to see if it is the die mark the case with felt pen on the high side, reinsert round 180 out and rerun it up and see what it does.

 

[recarga]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

Yes they are forster cross bolt locking rings.

 

[recarga]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you using the Forster lock rings on all of your dies?</div></div>
^^ this. You can also try to leave the die a little sloppy loose and see if it changes. I have used an "O" ring between the lock ring and press before and in some cases it has reduced runout several thousandths. Also just to see if it is the die mark the case with felt pen on the high side, reinsert round 180 out and rerun it up and see what it does. </div></div>

Sorry I Got a kindergarten brain , can you explain more on the marking the case and re RUN it 180

?? Do you ment that little trick on SEATING the bullet half way and turn the case 190 degrees and finish it off ?

 

[Sledge1]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

He's saying to find the "High" side of the runout, or the low, doesn't matter. Mark that side with a sharpie, and run it back through the die and see if the "High" side changes.

I also seat the bullet in a ways and turn it and finish seating. I've never checked to see if it helps, can't see that it would hurt. I only go 180 degrees, not the full 190.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's saying to find the "High" side of the runout, or the low, doesn't matter. Mark that side with a sharpie, and run it back through the die and see if the "High" side changes.

I also seat the bullet in a ways and turn it and finish seating. I've never checked to see if it helps, can't see that it would hurt. I only go 180 degrees, not the full 190.</div></div>
bingo

 

[recarga]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's saying to find the "High" side of the runout, or the low, doesn't matter. Mark that side with a sharpie, and run it back through the die and see if the "High" side changes.

I also seat the bullet in a ways and turn it and finish seating. I've never checked to see if it helps, can't see that it would hurt. I only go 180 degrees, not the full 190.</div></div>
bingo
</div></div>


You two are the best

By the way that's a good trick.

Yes I did what you said and Yes it did change so is this a die problem or wall thickness is of . I have no of the same cases to check the wall thickness until I use them or should I pull them off ?

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recarga</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's saying to find the "High" side of the runout, or the low, doesn't matter. Mark that side with a sharpie, and run it back through the die and see if the "High" side changes.

I also seat the bullet in a ways and turn it and finish seating. I've never checked to see if it helps, can't see that it would hurt. I only go 180 degrees, not the full 190.</div></div>
bingo
</div></div>


You two are the best

By the way that's a good trick.

Yes I did what you said and Yes it did change so is this a die problem or wall thickness is of . I have no of the same cases to check the wall thickness until I use them or should I pull them off ? </div></div>
It all depends on how accurate you need to be. I know that is kinda' sh*tty answer but hey you need to determine if the difference between 2 or 3 thousands and 5 or 6 thousands of an inch really will make that much of a difference to you. Most likely it will not unless you are doing ALL the other things to remove cumulative errors. Those are the ones that will get you.
Like a little light on the charge, with a little low brisance on the primer, with a little older powder, with a little larger case volume, with a little more set back on the bullet, with a little more fouling in the barrel, on a little colder day, that you happen to have your eye a little high in the objective, with a slightly larger diameter bullet with a thinner jacket that is just a bit heavier that is that is that is that is. You get the point?

 

[recarga]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

Awawaw awaeaw
That sounded like a lot of headache, but you know with all that little things that can go wrong at the end It's all fun and therapy for the soul and been away from the wife. LOL.

I LEARNED SOMETHING NEW TODAY THANKS FOR THAT LITTLE TRICK.

 

[former naval person]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

The die bottom does NOT need to touch the shell plate. Back it off a half turn or so. A little slop is good. Adjust the seating depth with the screw. Put a small O ring between the lock ring of the seating plug stem and the die body. That will help it self center also. IMHO, a .001 run-out after sizing is not too good. That means the neck and body of the die aren't concentric, or the expander plug (if you use one) is pulling your neck a bit off center. The hint of using NO expander plug and FL sizing your cases and then using an expander mandrel in a separate step gives you much less run-out. Also, lubing the inside of the case necks with a dry lube after polishing them with 0000 steel wool on a bronze brush in my drill motor contributes greatly to improved tolerances. Again, JMHO

 

[Mike Sobr]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

Guys that shoot benchrest at 100 and 200 yards where the bullet hole after 5 shots looks like one hole and measures sub .10" group don't mind runout up to .03 thou.

A friend of mine said his runout was sub .001 but when asked where he measures from he said just in front of the case mouth and when measured out nearer the tip where the deviation is several fold but he still could hold 1/2 inch of vertical at 500 yards but YMMV.

 

[recarga]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

O man music to my hears ,

An O ring (mmmm) that's also going for the record.

You know I've been wanted to try the doing the expander thing but I haven't , that
Also I have heard that works great.

Gentleman thanks for sharing your wisdom.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: FORSTER PRESS , SEATING QUESTION

<span style="font-style: italic">".. don't mind runout up to .03 thou."</span>

Well, thirty micro inches (three hundredths of one thou) of runout IS quite low and no one in his right mind would worry about that!

I have found best seating with conventional seating dies to be around one to one and half turns off the shell holder. That means the bullet guide section of the die has a chance to actually align the bullet about as good as it can, especially so when seating boat-tail bullets.

Seating and turning doesn't do any harm. Nor does it do any good, and I have checked it. IME, once a bullet begins to enter a neck off axis it will continue off axis and I've never found a threaded die bullet seating plug that fits the seater anywhere near tightly enough to correct or even help center a bullet that starts into a neck out-of-line.

Only Forster and Redding 'comp/BR' seaters have full length case/bullet guide sleeves that pretty well align the cases with bullets before seating begins; meaning they - and only they - are as good as it gets for threaded dies. But even they don't have the tightly fitted bullet seating stems of hand dies which MIGHT help correct some seating error by rotating, but good hand dies don't allow much seating runout anyway.

I think it can be proven that excessive 'neck tension' is the major reason we get big runout ammo from cases that started with straight necks. A neck sized and expanded smaller than about 1 thou below the bullet is excessively small, IMHO, because anything smaller just demands we stretch the brass passed it's elastic limits during seating. That makes it harder to push the bullets in without any effect on how tightly the seated bullets are gripped.


<span style="font-style: italic">"A friend of mine said his runout was sub .001 but when asked where he measures from he said just in front of the case mouth and when measured out nearer the tip where the deviation is several fold <span style="text-decoration: underline">but he still could hold 1/2 inch of vertical at 500 yards</span> but YMMV."</span>

Your friend makes a couple of interesting claims there. If he should measure his runout immediately above the forward point of cartridge support his "runout" will be quite near zero if his necks are turned to a consitant thickness but it's where the bullet's point is aimed, not back where it starts that matters when measuring runout. And no matter how he "measures" runout I believe anyone holding "1/2 inch of vertical at 500 yards" should be quite well known from routinely blowing away the competition in any kind of match he may choose to enter. ??