Hello; first post here and I have a question

[ack-fin]

Hello all,
I'm Scott, 50 years old and I have lived in Mesa, AZ for ~4.5 years now. I'm considering rebarreling my Rem 700 .308. The purpose of this gun is long range target practice. I may never compete but that doesn't deter me from trying to get the most out of this weapon as I can. So far I have installed Jewel trigger, Burris bases and rings, a SWFA SS 3-9x42 scope and set everything in a laminated thumbhole stock with aluminum bedding system. Oh, and, it has a short Harris bipod. For a while now I've considered cutting the varmint contour barrel down to 20" but yesterday I ran into an active duty US Military sniper at the range and he had a .338 lapua mag AI and the issued version of the Rem 700 action in .308. I didn't want to bother they guy with many questions but it seemed that the 20" bbl on the .308 was extremely heavy - like 1", 1 1/4", or 1 1/2". He told me that he regularily shoots 1,000 yards with the 20" bbl so I decided right then and there I'm definitely going to rebarrel. I'm so sorry this has been so long, but I'm simply asking for experienced input here. My current 1:11 twist really seems to favor 168 gr ammo. At longer distances I'll want to try stepping up to 180 or 185 - will I want to tighten up that twist rate and if so is there such a thing as over-stabilizing the 168? What barrels have you had good success with, should I flute it and can flutes be cut deep without adversely affecting anything? Please pardon my ignorance of the subject - I've just never customized anything past a trigger job or doing basic mods to my AK-47 and Saiga-12. This is a completely different kind of precision monster.

Thank you,
Scott

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

If you're looking to go to 1K and beyond I would leave the barrel longer than shorter. Especially if you're looking to "get the most out of this weapon". Fluting reduces weight, but unless you're going to be carrying it for distance there's no added benefit...

 

[jd138]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

I feel almost handicapped with the 20" barrel on my .308. I know it is certainly possible to get 1000k shots with the 20", but I believe you will be backing yourself in a corner to cut down to 20" if your goal is consistent 1000k hits.

Bugholes on here talked me through my barrel decision process. I was planning on going with a 30" straight taper, but in the end, I decided to put the money on a better scope/rings and just shoot out the barrel I have with the intent on eventually purchasing a custom rifle.

SInce you are experimenting with bullets, give the 155 grain Lapua Scenars a try at the long distances.

 

[persistant7500]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

other than a slight decrease in velocity, all powder in the 308 win. is burned before 16". Most of the people that I know are going the 20" route just for ease of movement and just calculate their dope for a lower velocity, I shoot 175 SMK out of a 700 sps with a 12 twist with no keyholing out to the 800 that I have tested. Many here take them a lot further with no probs, and I think Lowlight did a video debunking the need a longer barrel.

 

[ack-fin]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

OK, I want to thank each of you for your input. Fluting is out because rifle is pretty much a range-only rifle (thank you Broker). When TSHTF that may change. The longest lane at the range I frequent only goes out to 700 meters. I live in the Phoenix valley and there are plenty of opportunities to shoot amazing distances but it's doubtful I'll exceed the 700m range even rarely if ever. jd13 - I agree and will be adding a 5-20x50 SWFA SS scope before replacing the current barrel. persistant7500, thanks for confirming what I was already thinking. A local shooting school GPS Defensive Sniping School sells all their .308 rifles with 18" barrels stating this decision is based not so much on balistic tables as it is on results they've seen over and over again on their course. Everything I've read backups the 20" barrel theory and I'm certain to go atleast down to 20 - I'm still considering 18" but won't take that plunge unless I become absolutely comfortable with it. I am going to take your advice and not spend the $ to flute it and won't re-barrel until after I've worn this one out - no sense throwing money away especially at my post-retirement income.

 

[roggom]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

If you want, have it cut and crowned to 20" or 22", and start working up loads with 175 SMK, 178's match or amax. You should find a sweet spot between 44.0 - 44.5 of Varget.

You mentioned 1:11, is your rifle a 5R? Just that the SPS-V and SPS-T are 1:12, the AAC and LTR are 1:10. Either way, I am sure you will like the way the shorter barrel handles.

As for the 700m that is a great range to work up your loads, establish your drops from 100-700, then when you want to hit out to 1000Y it will be a matter of adjusting your dope. That 178 will definitely get you out there.

One more thing, I think Mesa is at about 1300 feet, if the heat is similar to CO, you are shooting in 100+ degrees which puts your density altitude up in the 3000+. If you decide to go with the 175's/178's there is a cool little tool to help you adjust for DA and wind. http://www.triadtactical.com/Field-Density-Altitude-Compensator.html It has drops for various velocities and in both mil and moa. I really like mine, it has not let me down. No batteries, no pda's, no printing out pages of drop sheets.

Have fun.

 

[Valere]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

There is so much information on this site for everything you are asking. Try a snipershide google search by typing in site:snipershide.com [search term here]. Here's a link to a general search on the subject Click You can change the search term to anything and you will likely get a bunch of info on it.

I have a 20" 1:12 twist Remington 700 LTR which is fluted. I can stabilize a 208grain A-Max. You should easily be able to push up to 180 in a 1:11 twist. I love the 20 inch barrel but would get a 22, non-fluted, if I re-barreled. Remember, thats just me and what would benefit how I shoot most often. That said, if you reload and are planning to re-barrel, take a good hard look at the .260. You can switch to that caliber using all the same parts of your .308 just by changing the barrel.

Also, for future reference, try including a description of what you are asking in the subject/title. Good Luck, it only gets better!

 

[earthquake]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

Read this thread...it's very helpful.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

I agree that barrel length has little to do with accuracy. As for how long a barrel it takes to burn all the powder in a .308 case, I honestly don't know, so I'll leave that alone. I believe I can recall a study the USMC did on .308 Sniper Barrel Length some decade(s?) back, and I believe the value came out as best at somewhere around 26".

If target shooting is your goal, and using a bipod or front rest is the intended norm, barrel weight and rifle balance can get away with some forward bias.

Yes, a shorter barrel will reach 1000yd, and some can do it with great accuracy.

But I also think it takes a load which is at the upper end of the heat/pressure spectrum.

Employing a barrel that allows the load to get the job done in a little more time and a little more length can allow the task to be achieved with less heat and pressure, So for me, additional length is a bore preservation stategy, allowing the same velocities with less mayhem in the boiler room.

Lets be honest, as long as you're not carrying it long distances, waving it around in tight speces, or shooting it unsupported most of the time, a longer heavier barrel is not any kind of a handicap, so why not take advantage of all the possible advantages?

I have a short distance rifle, a Savage custom chambered for 30BR, and intended for 250yd comp; and it has a barrel about 22" long. As long as I'm not going for peak distances, a shorter, stiffer barrel makes good sense; and this rifle is shaping up nicely as load development progresses.

But for 1000yd comp, this same rifle had a 28" .260 Rem L-W Stainless barrel. I ran it with a load that was backed down somewhat from max, and it did very nicely. That barrel is probably going to end up on my new Savage Predator Hunter .260, and the 24" factory barrel will probably stay in storage for 'if and when'. Borescoping and throat depth measuring shows almost negligible wear on the 28" barrel after about 1000rd, so I think my length vs bore preservation strategy is probably sound. At 66 and with a mediocre ticker, I may not live long enough to wear out that 28" barrel.

Another aspect of greater heat and pressure is accentuated copper fouling; so in that instance, barrel length that can reduce that does indeed have a bearing on accuracy, at least in the respect of the number of rounds before fouling impedes it.

Greg

 

[VKC]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

Something to consider is that if you flute a barrel, you will be limited as to how short you can later cut your barrel.

 

[KillShot]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

Welcome to the Hide! If you haven't already checked it out, you might consider signing up for the Sniper's Hide Online Training as it will provide access to training videos and info that regular members can't see.

Oh, and if you wanna be taken seriously...leave out the "SHTF" part. Just sayin...

 

[rustydog32]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

that is one sweet ar in the post above

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

You will get more velocity from a longer barrel, that is fact, so cutting the barrel length is a compromise to get something else, such as weight savings or maneuverability.
You can get to 1000 yards with a 20 in barrel, but if like you said the rifle is mostly for the range why limit velocity, even a little, for half a pound?
A better reason to rebarrel than to shorten the barrel would be to chamber for a different cartridge that is better suited for long range work than the 308. 6.5 Creedmore, 7mm Creedmore, 260Rem, 7mm-08, 243 or 284Win all come to mind in a short action among others. You would get far better results from a long range rifle with one of those than tinkering with 308 barrel length.

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: Hello; first post here and I have a question

I would go 22" for a 308. You can get out to 1k supersonic and it's still easy to haul around. Also it you reload, try 155 smks with Varget (~44-45 grains). Those things are very accurate and have lighter recoil.