I do not really understand this fouling rounds concept, novice here.... I imagine you are running a few rounds through to get your barrel going before getting down to business at the range?
- Thread starter NoFail
- Start date
Re: Fouling rounds?
yes , if you clean your bore down to the metal you will need to foul your rifle.
the amount of shots you need to fire is based on the quality of your barrel
match grade barrels require less fouling shots then factory barrels.
yes , if you clean your bore down to the metal you will need to foul your rifle.
the amount of shots you need to fire is based on the quality of your barrel
match grade barrels require less fouling shots then factory barrels.
Re: Fouling rounds?
Cleaning the barrel will either clean it to bare metal, and/or leave traces of cleaning products, in the bore. In either case, shooting a few rounds will get rid of the remaining bore cleaner, and if the bore is bare metal, put a little powder and copper fouling in the barrel so your bullet isn't quite as "grippy" going down the barrel.
Using my chrono, I find that there is a noticeable velocity difference that will level out after a few fouling rounds.
Many years ago, I had a national match M1A that shot one inch groups at 100 yards. The proviso was that after cleaning it, I had to fire 20 rounds rapidly to get the bore good and hot and foul it. Then the rifle shot great for a few hundred rounds. The rifle shot like that for about 8000 rounds, then one day after fouling it, my groups remained at 3 inches at 100 yards, and nothing would reduce them...my barrel was entitled to die after that abuse.
I abused the hell out of that poor rifle. Once a friend and I had run through about 100 rounds really fast, and the barrel was burning off some oil. An old timer asked if that didn't really heat up the barrel. I said "Sure", and he asked how hot it was. I told him to check it if he wished. I thought it was funny when it sounded like his finger made that sizzling (Pzzzt) sound as he touched the barrel and left his fingerprint on it.
Cleaning the barrel will either clean it to bare metal, and/or leave traces of cleaning products, in the bore. In either case, shooting a few rounds will get rid of the remaining bore cleaner, and if the bore is bare metal, put a little powder and copper fouling in the barrel so your bullet isn't quite as "grippy" going down the barrel.
Using my chrono, I find that there is a noticeable velocity difference that will level out after a few fouling rounds.
Many years ago, I had a national match M1A that shot one inch groups at 100 yards. The proviso was that after cleaning it, I had to fire 20 rounds rapidly to get the bore good and hot and foul it. Then the rifle shot great for a few hundred rounds. The rifle shot like that for about 8000 rounds, then one day after fouling it, my groups remained at 3 inches at 100 yards, and nothing would reduce them...my barrel was entitled to die after that abuse.
I abused the hell out of that poor rifle. Once a friend and I had run through about 100 rounds really fast, and the barrel was burning off some oil. An old timer asked if that didn't really heat up the barrel. I said "Sure", and he asked how hot it was. I told him to check it if he wished. I thought it was funny when it sounded like his finger made that sizzling (Pzzzt) sound as he touched the barrel and left his fingerprint on it.
Re: Fouling rounds?
It really does depend on the rifle. Best is to try different stuff in yours and see for yourself. I have many loads and rifles that care less about clean/dirty or hot/cold - cold bore or long string. There are more variables than just a fouled bore to consider.
It really does depend on the rifle. Best is to try different stuff in yours and see for yourself. I have many loads and rifles that care less about clean/dirty or hot/cold - cold bore or long string. There are more variables than just a fouled bore to consider.
Re: Fouling rounds?
All of this very helpful, thanks guys
All of this very helpful, thanks guys
Re: Fouling rounds?
NoFail
+1 for all of the above, but what has not been mentioned is that when changing ammunition, some fouler shots of the new stuff may be needed to settle things out with the new load. Different powders and different brands of bullets leave different residues in the barrel and may not be compatible for best accuracy from one to another. Typically this is not as dramatic as the difference between squeaky clean and well fouled, but can be an issue, but not as clearly defined. As usual, YMMV.
Paul
NoFail
+1 for all of the above, but what has not been mentioned is that when changing ammunition, some fouler shots of the new stuff may be needed to settle things out with the new load. Different powders and different brands of bullets leave different residues in the barrel and may not be compatible for best accuracy from one to another. Typically this is not as dramatic as the difference between squeaky clean and well fouled, but can be an issue, but not as clearly defined. As usual, YMMV.
Paul
Re: Fouling rounds?
I was at the range and read the answers before I got started. Ran some through first, dialed scope better, then got started with a new PACT chrono and a new load workup. I don't know if the fouling rounds thing made a difference, I'm not good enough to know, but I'll just do it from now on. Thanks guys, happy days at the range
I was at the range and read the answers before I got started. Ran some through first, dialed scope better, then got started with a new PACT chrono and a new load workup. I don't know if the fouling rounds thing made a difference, I'm not good enough to know, but I'll just do it from now on. Thanks guys, happy days at the range
Re: Fouling rounds?
I will stick my neck out and say, a quality barrel should put the first round within the group.
Twenty rounds, rapidly, seems almost guaranteed to cause throat erosion, in my world. In fact, there is a lot of sentiment among precision shooters to clean after 15 rounds. On the other hand, I know a man, a state champion, in fact, that never cleans his bore. How that is possible, I have no idea?
BB
I will stick my neck out and say, a quality barrel should put the first round within the group.
Twenty rounds, rapidly, seems almost guaranteed to cause throat erosion, in my world. In fact, there is a lot of sentiment among precision shooters to clean after 15 rounds. On the other hand, I know a man, a state champion, in fact, that never cleans his bore. How that is possible, I have no idea?
BB
Re: Fouling rounds?
Not sure why, but shooting either the 175 SMK's or the 162 Amax's out of my 284 seem to get better after a few shots to "foul" the barrel. I also shoot 180 Hybrids and they seem to group great from the get go. Just my .02
Not sure why, but shooting either the 175 SMK's or the 162 Amax's out of my 284 seem to get better after a few shots to "foul" the barrel. I also shoot 180 Hybrids and they seem to group great from the get go. Just my .02
Re: Fouling rounds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will stick my neck out and say, a quality barrel should put the first round within the group.
Twenty rounds, rapidly, seems almost guaranteed to cause throat erosion, in my world. In fact, there is a lot of sentiment among precision shooters to clean after 15 rounds. On the other hand, I know a man, a state champion, in fact, that never cleans his bore. How that is possible, I have no idea?
BB </div></div>
Hmmmm, well, after 25 rounds today my next group exploded, not that my others were great, LoL, but this one was stupid. Not knowing or having anything else to do about it I cleaned the barrel, but not squeaky clean. Next group was one of the best of the day.
Mine is a JP Enterprises Supermatch Cryogenic. I'm starting to think it wants to be fairly clean or else. My last time out same sorta thing happened but I didn't bring a cleaning kit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will stick my neck out and say, a quality barrel should put the first round within the group.
Twenty rounds, rapidly, seems almost guaranteed to cause throat erosion, in my world. In fact, there is a lot of sentiment among precision shooters to clean after 15 rounds. On the other hand, I know a man, a state champion, in fact, that never cleans his bore. How that is possible, I have no idea?
BB </div></div>
Hmmmm, well, after 25 rounds today my next group exploded, not that my others were great, LoL, but this one was stupid. Not knowing or having anything else to do about it I cleaned the barrel, but not squeaky clean. Next group was one of the best of the day.
Mine is a JP Enterprises Supermatch Cryogenic. I'm starting to think it wants to be fairly clean or else. My last time out same sorta thing happened but I didn't bring a cleaning kit.
Re: Fouling rounds?
If I may I'll like to say
Nofail : you may find the opposite on some rifles and here is a perfect explanation.
This rifle shots 5 rounds at 100 yards in 1/2 MOA but it likes to be sparkling clean or it will open up to 3/4 of MOA .
If I may I'll like to say
Nofail : you may find the opposite on some rifles and here is a perfect explanation.
This rifle shots 5 rounds at 100 yards in 1/2 MOA but it likes to be sparkling clean or it will open up to 3/4 of MOA .
Re: Fouling rounds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Using my chrono, I find that there is a noticeable velocity difference that will level out after a few fouling rounds.
</div></div>
Unknown, do you think that after firing a few rounds the barrel heats up...causing the metal to expand.. which causes a few more FPS and more consistency in FPS...... ? that's a question NOT a PUN.. This is how i relate it
Lets think of a Rifle bore as a Engine cylinder bore..and the projectile being a piston...the colder that engine is the more compression that motor will put out, The warmer the engine gets the less the compression... Now i know firing a projectile and a piston moving up and down are very different..however metal expansion with heat is not........Pick up what I'm putting down? ... Or am i just flat wrong?
I'm not a firm believer of multiple Fouling rounds..If any, one is good in my humble opinion... but how does one take a true Cold bore shot..if he has to fire fouling rounds first..... Unless he doesn't clean his rifle after a trip to the range and allows it to sit for hours unclean... This is just my opinion...I see too many of my friends have jumped on this whole Fouling round bandwagon and use it merely for an excuse as to why they cant shoot.... just because They ran a couple patch's or bore snake down their barrel... and did not clean it to bare metal...
Someone please correct me if i am way off key here...I love constructive criticizem...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Using my chrono, I find that there is a noticeable velocity difference that will level out after a few fouling rounds.
</div></div>
Unknown, do you think that after firing a few rounds the barrel heats up...causing the metal to expand.. which causes a few more FPS and more consistency in FPS...... ? that's a question NOT a PUN.. This is how i relate it
Lets think of a Rifle bore as a Engine cylinder bore..and the projectile being a piston...the colder that engine is the more compression that motor will put out, The warmer the engine gets the less the compression... Now i know firing a projectile and a piston moving up and down are very different..however metal expansion with heat is not........Pick up what I'm putting down? ... Or am i just flat wrong?
I'm not a firm believer of multiple Fouling rounds..If any, one is good in my humble opinion... but how does one take a true Cold bore shot..if he has to fire fouling rounds first..... Unless he doesn't clean his rifle after a trip to the range and allows it to sit for hours unclean... This is just my opinion...I see too many of my friends have jumped on this whole Fouling round bandwagon and use it merely for an excuse as to why they cant shoot.... just because They ran a couple patch's or bore snake down their barrel... and did not clean it to bare metal...
Someone please correct me if i am way off key here...I love constructive criticizem...
Re: Fouling rounds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coryfls3vvt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you think that after firing a few rounds the barrel heats up...causing the metal to expand.. which causes a few more FPS and more consistency in FPS...... ? </div></div>
hBN on your bullets will solve some of that
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coryfls3vvt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you think that after firing a few rounds the barrel heats up...causing the metal to expand.. which causes a few more FPS and more consistency in FPS...... ? </div></div>
hBN on your bullets will solve some of that
Re: Fouling rounds?
In doing a partial cleaning, are you cleaning all or part of the carbon. And leaving the copper untouched?
Or clean all the carbon, along with removing just some of the copper to level out the micro imperfection.
My Kreiger never shows much in the way of copper fouling, do I just deal with carbon until I lose my group size.
In doing a partial cleaning, are you cleaning all or part of the carbon. And leaving the copper untouched?
Or clean all the carbon, along with removing just some of the copper to level out the micro imperfection.
My Kreiger never shows much in the way of copper fouling, do I just deal with carbon until I lose my group size.
Re: Fouling rounds?
I'm not sure what "partial" cleaning is? You clean until a patch comes out clean, no matter what solvent you use, Montana, Butches, 7.62, or Wipe Out. The object is a clean bore, where I come from.
BB
I'm not sure what "partial" cleaning is? You clean until a patch comes out clean, no matter what solvent you use, Montana, Butches, 7.62, or Wipe Out. The object is a clean bore, where I come from.
BB
Re: Fouling rounds?
Personally, it doesn't seem to mess with my group size too much, BUT the zero does change around within the first 20 rounds or so.
for example, after a cleaning, I just went to the range and my first group was 3/4 of a minute. Each group after that was still pretty good, but by the end of the shoot, my zero was definitely different than were my first 3 hit. So seems like a slow progression for my barrel(slow enough not to make group sizes too big).
Personally, it doesn't seem to mess with my group size too much, BUT the zero does change around within the first 20 rounds or so.
for example, after a cleaning, I just went to the range and my first group was 3/4 of a minute. Each group after that was still pretty good, but by the end of the shoot, my zero was definitely different than were my first 3 hit. So seems like a slow progression for my barrel(slow enough not to make group sizes too big).
Re: Fouling rounds?
Some rifles do it and some don't and when forced to compete with a cold bore I know guys that can actually hold off correctly for the first shot since it usually throws them in the same place.
Big Game/dangerous game hunters will go through barrels till they get one that doesn't do it for obvious reasons.
Some rifles do it and some don't and when forced to compete with a cold bore I know guys that can actually hold off correctly for the first shot since it usually throws them in the same place.
Big Game/dangerous game hunters will go through barrels till they get one that doesn't do it for obvious reasons.
Re: Fouling rounds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally, it doesn't seem to mess with my group size too much, BUT the zero does change around within the first 20 rounds or so.
for example, after a cleaning, I just went to the range and my first group was 3/4 of a minute. Each group after that was still pretty good, but by the end of the shoot, my zero was definitely different than were my first 3 hit. So seems like a slow progression for my barrel(slow enough not to make group sizes too big). </div></div>
You might be looking at a number of different effects, from bedding problems to just a particular barrel that radically changes POI as it warms up. Who knows, but you cannot conclude the reason is fouling, just because it is no longer sparkling clean. I'd call it a contributing factor. BB
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally, it doesn't seem to mess with my group size too much, BUT the zero does change around within the first 20 rounds or so.
for example, after a cleaning, I just went to the range and my first group was 3/4 of a minute. Each group after that was still pretty good, but by the end of the shoot, my zero was definitely different than were my first 3 hit. So seems like a slow progression for my barrel(slow enough not to make group sizes too big). </div></div>
You might be looking at a number of different effects, from bedding problems to just a particular barrel that radically changes POI as it warms up. Who knows, but you cannot conclude the reason is fouling, just because it is no longer sparkling clean. I'd call it a contributing factor. BB
Re: Fouling rounds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will stick my neck out and say, a quality barrel should put the first round within the group.
Twenty rounds, rapidly, seems almost guaranteed to cause throat erosion, in my world. In fact, there is a lot of sentiment among precision shooters to clean after 15 rounds. On the other hand, I know a man, a state champion, in fact, that never cleans his bore. How that is possible, I have no idea?
BB </div></div>
State champion what?
I used to be a compulsive cleaner (like every 5-10 rounds). Someone broke me of that, and I don't clean now until about 150-200 at least. I'm getting just as good (sub-half-MOA) accuracy, and it's a lot less of a pain in the ass to go shoot now. I'm still scoring Xs at 1000, so it can't be that bad.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will stick my neck out and say, a quality barrel should put the first round within the group.
Twenty rounds, rapidly, seems almost guaranteed to cause throat erosion, in my world. In fact, there is a lot of sentiment among precision shooters to clean after 15 rounds. On the other hand, I know a man, a state champion, in fact, that never cleans his bore. How that is possible, I have no idea?
BB </div></div>
State champion what?
I used to be a compulsive cleaner (like every 5-10 rounds). Someone broke me of that, and I don't clean now until about 150-200 at least. I'm getting just as good (sub-half-MOA) accuracy, and it's a lot less of a pain in the ass to go shoot now. I'm still scoring Xs at 1000, so it can't be that bad.
Re: Fouling rounds?
"State champion what?"
Well, actually very much shooting related but, the California State Varmint Callers Association. His name is Steve Sundeen and he killed one hell of a lot of coyotes back in'97 or '98 I think it was, Steve won the State Championship. But, he's always up there, very close to the top. An accurate rifle is a must and he told me with a straight face that he never cleans the bore of his 700 Varmint Special in 6MM Rem. I neglected to ask for any sort of clarification, like what does he mean by, "NEVER"? I know he has killed thousands of coyotes and many hundreds of bobcats and gray fox and he has been at it for many years, so that's just one man versus many others that clean religiously. Like they say, every rifle is different. BB
"State champion what?"
Well, actually very much shooting related but, the California State Varmint Callers Association. His name is Steve Sundeen and he killed one hell of a lot of coyotes back in'97 or '98 I think it was, Steve won the State Championship. But, he's always up there, very close to the top. An accurate rifle is a must and he told me with a straight face that he never cleans the bore of his 700 Varmint Special in 6MM Rem. I neglected to ask for any sort of clarification, like what does he mean by, "NEVER"? I know he has killed thousands of coyotes and many hundreds of bobcats and gray fox and he has been at it for many years, so that's just one man versus many others that clean religiously. Like they say, every rifle is different. BB
Re: Fouling rounds?
Reading this post levels me with the more questions then I can find answers for about the whole cleaning and fouling process.
Lets start off with the easy statement, all barrels are unique in the way they deal with cleaning and fouling.
I posted almost the same question previously and my answer was until its completely clean. Thats cleaning the barrel back to bare steel each and every time you shoot. But you have guys posting about not cleaning until they have 150-200 rounds. And if your going to be shoot a match, you don't necessarily have enough time to fire the rounds needed to foul the barrel.
If your not cleaning the barrel back to bare steel when you get back from shooting, what steps do you take before putting your gun away?
Are you running a patch with a carbon cleaner or a copper removing agent? Or is this barrel dependent?
If your only going to do a partial cleaning, are you running a patch with a cleaning agent and cleaning until the patch is say half as dark in color as the first patch?
I also worry about possibly damaging the barrel while its being cleaned. I am careful when doing anything to any of my guns.
This is my first custom barrel and replacing it takes time and its expensive. By the time you add the barrel's cost, along with getting it fitted and the muzzle brake installed, its close to $1000. Then comes the time issue, if you find the barrel your looking at 2-3 months.
Reading this post levels me with the more questions then I can find answers for about the whole cleaning and fouling process.
Lets start off with the easy statement, all barrels are unique in the way they deal with cleaning and fouling.
I posted almost the same question previously and my answer was until its completely clean. Thats cleaning the barrel back to bare steel each and every time you shoot. But you have guys posting about not cleaning until they have 150-200 rounds. And if your going to be shoot a match, you don't necessarily have enough time to fire the rounds needed to foul the barrel.
If your not cleaning the barrel back to bare steel when you get back from shooting, what steps do you take before putting your gun away?
Are you running a patch with a carbon cleaner or a copper removing agent? Or is this barrel dependent?
If your only going to do a partial cleaning, are you running a patch with a cleaning agent and cleaning until the patch is say half as dark in color as the first patch?
I also worry about possibly damaging the barrel while its being cleaned. I am careful when doing anything to any of my guns.
This is my first custom barrel and replacing it takes time and its expensive. By the time you add the barrel's cost, along with getting it fitted and the muzzle brake installed, its close to $1000. Then comes the time issue, if you find the barrel your looking at 2-3 months.
Re: Fouling rounds?
I have no idea what value there is in a "partial" cleaning? There is no doubt that some barrels foul sooner than others and let you know it.
A good topic would be "Describe your bore cleaning regimen?"
BB
I have no idea what value there is in a "partial" cleaning? There is no doubt that some barrels foul sooner than others and let you know it.
A good topic would be "Describe your bore cleaning regimen?"
BB
Re: Fouling rounds?
I would not presume to speak for the poster who mentioned a "partial cleaning", however I would imagine it would consist of a cleaning to remove the carbon from the barrel while leaving the copper fouling behind. There are many shooters who firmly believe in leaving the copper fouling as long as group size remains consistent.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it works well for me. Some of my guns prefer to be cleaned once in a while while most remain accurate with little cleaning. The gun will speak let you know what it likes.
K9-
I would not presume to speak for the poster who mentioned a "partial cleaning", however I would imagine it would consist of a cleaning to remove the carbon from the barrel while leaving the copper fouling behind. There are many shooters who firmly believe in leaving the copper fouling as long as group size remains consistent.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it works well for me. Some of my guns prefer to be cleaned once in a while while most remain accurate with little cleaning. The gun will speak let you know what it likes.
K9-
Re: Fouling rounds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally, it doesn't seem to mess with my group size too much, BUT the zero does change around within the first 20 rounds or so.
for example, after a cleaning, I just went to the range and my first group was 3/4 of a minute. Each group after that was still pretty good, but by the end of the shoot, my zero was definitely different than were my first 3 hit. So seems like a slow progression for my barrel(slow enough not to make group sizes too big). </div></div>
You might be looking at a number of different effects, from bedding problems to just a particular barrel that radically changes POI as it warms up. Who knows, but you cannot conclude the reason is fouling, just because it is no longer sparkling clean. I'd call it a contributing factor. BB </div></div>
The phenomenon I was describing happens for the first X amount of shots after cleaning the barrel. I usually only clean once every 200 to 400 rounds...
On the other hand my 338lm threw its first couple clean shots WAY out there. I didn't mention it because I can't be sure if its fouling, the inaccurate ammo or me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally, it doesn't seem to mess with my group size too much, BUT the zero does change around within the first 20 rounds or so.
for example, after a cleaning, I just went to the range and my first group was 3/4 of a minute. Each group after that was still pretty good, but by the end of the shoot, my zero was definitely different than were my first 3 hit. So seems like a slow progression for my barrel(slow enough not to make group sizes too big). </div></div>
You might be looking at a number of different effects, from bedding problems to just a particular barrel that radically changes POI as it warms up. Who knows, but you cannot conclude the reason is fouling, just because it is no longer sparkling clean. I'd call it a contributing factor. BB </div></div>
The phenomenon I was describing happens for the first X amount of shots after cleaning the barrel. I usually only clean once every 200 to 400 rounds...
On the other hand my 338lm threw its first couple clean shots WAY out there. I didn't mention it because I can't be sure if its fouling, the inaccurate ammo or me.
Re: Fouling rounds?
Barrels are as variable as women, there are no dependable rules that always work on either.
That said, I believe MOST <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">good</span></span> barrels will shoot the first round out of a clean barrel in the group <span style="text-decoration: underline">IF it's been properly cleaned first</span>; Mr. Mike Walker showed me that about 15 years ago with his then new Stolle action and Hart barreled 6 PPC. He first ran a wet Hoppe's patch to soften and remove any dried oil in the bore and followed that with 3-4 clean, dry patches to remove the Hoppe's, then started shooting. Five successive <3/8" groups were virtually identical, no one who didn't know the sequence they were fired in could have pointed to which one was first. That cleaning routine immediately became my method and it works for my lesser quality rigs too.
I love knowing I can come in from a day of hunting in rain or snow with wet rifle and dry and oil the bore overnight but clean it next morning with confidence that first round will go where it's pointed without a fouling shot or two to blow the oil out!
Barrels are as variable as women, there are no dependable rules that always work on either.
That said, I believe MOST <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">good</span></span> barrels will shoot the first round out of a clean barrel in the group <span style="text-decoration: underline">IF it's been properly cleaned first</span>; Mr. Mike Walker showed me that about 15 years ago with his then new Stolle action and Hart barreled 6 PPC. He first ran a wet Hoppe's patch to soften and remove any dried oil in the bore and followed that with 3-4 clean, dry patches to remove the Hoppe's, then started shooting. Five successive <3/8" groups were virtually identical, no one who didn't know the sequence they were fired in could have pointed to which one was first. That cleaning routine immediately became my method and it works for my lesser quality rigs too.
I love knowing I can come in from a day of hunting in rain or snow with wet rifle and dry and oil the bore overnight but clean it next morning with confidence that first round will go where it's pointed without a fouling shot or two to blow the oil out!
Re: Fouling rounds?
After cleaning my 300 WSM it will throw the first round out about a half inch high and a half inch to the left every time. then it settles in. But I have to shoot that fouling round every time. I guess it just proves that each barrel can be different.
After cleaning my 300 WSM it will throw the first round out about a half inch high and a half inch to the left every time. then it settles in. But I have to shoot that fouling round every time. I guess it just proves that each barrel can be different.
Re: Fouling rounds?
I have had 3 different rifles that I had to know how and when to clean all three at different times. 1 of them would not hold a 1" group until it had atleast 20 rnds thru it so I stopped cleaning it completely and just get most of the big stuff out... and then clean again when I start getting larger than 1" groups.
The one shoots excellent clean or dirty!! I still can't figure that one out but as long as it shoots good who cares...
The other one will only shoot when it has had about 3-5 fouling shots from a squeeky clean barrel, but it must start off CLEAN!!!
Each barrel and gun shoots differently I think, and learning what your gun does is one of the fun parts!!! They are like women, each one is a picky bitch but if you treat her right she will do exactly what you ask...
Good Luck!!!!
I have had 3 different rifles that I had to know how and when to clean all three at different times. 1 of them would not hold a 1" group until it had atleast 20 rnds thru it so I stopped cleaning it completely and just get most of the big stuff out... and then clean again when I start getting larger than 1" groups.
The one shoots excellent clean or dirty!! I still can't figure that one out but as long as it shoots good who cares...
The other one will only shoot when it has had about 3-5 fouling shots from a squeeky clean barrel, but it must start off CLEAN!!!
Each barrel and gun shoots differently I think, and learning what your gun does is one of the fun parts!!! They are like women, each one is a picky bitch but if you treat her right she will do exactly what you ask...
Good Luck!!!!
Re: Fouling rounds?
Sometimes that first shot may count a lot more than in a "competition".
With all my rifles I clean them as clean as possible, taking my time, and then note where that very first shot goes in relation to the rest of the group.
I must be fortunate because my 5-R Milspec is extremely consistent and only requires a couple of fouling shots to get back to POI. First one is 1" high and 1" right at 100 yards. Second is half that and third is dead on. From there on it's only a matter of heat. After 60 or more rounds in an hour the groups open up. Cool off and it's back to 1/2 MOA again.
Sometimes that first shot may count a lot more than in a "competition".
With all my rifles I clean them as clean as possible, taking my time, and then note where that very first shot goes in relation to the rest of the group.
I must be fortunate because my 5-R Milspec is extremely consistent and only requires a couple of fouling shots to get back to POI. First one is 1" high and 1" right at 100 yards. Second is half that and third is dead on. From there on it's only a matter of heat. After 60 or more rounds in an hour the groups open up. Cool off and it's back to 1/2 MOA again.
Re: Fouling rounds?
Depends on the barrel. I've gone through two .280 barrels the first one if it was perfectly clean 10-15 shots to settle down. If it wasn't clean about 7-8. Current barrel is about 5. My Palma rifle I can clean it after each yardline and it is ready to go after the first shot. My smallbore rifle takes 5 shots before first match after that 3. My .243 1-2.
Depends on the barrel. I've gone through two .280 barrels the first one if it was perfectly clean 10-15 shots to settle down. If it wasn't clean about 7-8. Current barrel is about 5. My Palma rifle I can clean it after each yardline and it is ready to go after the first shot. My smallbore rifle takes 5 shots before first match after that 3. My .243 1-2.
