Thinking about an FN PS90

[JelloStorm]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about getting a PS90 for quite some time and I want to hear from you guys that have / have had them and what you think about them.

I knew ammo types were limited, but I found this website that sells a bunch of different types for the 5.7x28

http://www.eliteammunition.net/57x28mm_ammunition.html

Sure wish SS109 was readily available but it is what it is.

Also, pictures of your rifles would be sweet!

JS

 

[M_16_4_REAL]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

if you want a cool rifle everyone will look at, great for home defense, has 50 round mags, and just an all around sweet bull pup, get one. my brother has one and he shoots steel gongs at 250 to 400 yards all day with a 1-4x24 scope. and every time he brings it to the range people always flock to it and just wanna check it out. great for kids, has almost no recoil and you can double tap for days.

only down side I've seen is the ammo, its a little expensive and kinda limited on choices. otherwise its great. btw the little 35-40gr bullets don't exactly ring loud when they hit past 200 yards but its still fun.

 

[Direct Assault]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Here are my 3 FNs. The ps90 is one of the most comfortable guns i have ever touched. Its like you put your hands IN the rifle. I love it.

 

[noz455sd]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Mine is fun and moves fast...I wanted it just for a collectable toy but it will blow the snot outta water jugs with that teeny little bullet

 

[Yasherka]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

I had one for about a month and sold it. It was not accurate at all: getting around 4-5 MOA and the trigger is pure garbage. It's also a straight blowback design and rough on brass.

If you want it as a "fun gun" it fits the bill, but unless you can get it in its original "bullet hose" configuration I think there are better choices for a serious PDW.

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

I love mine, very fast. I have had no accuracy issues. Dont get the factory sight, get a rail and put your own optic on it. The factory sight is good but sighting it in is a nightmare. FN had a brainfart on that one. Also, I would strongly suggest not reloading for it. The brass is really thin, and it is a huge pain to reload. Word has it, federal is coming out with a 5.7x28 soon, and maybe that will change but for now just get new ammo. Mine shoots 1moa to 200 yards, 3 seperate bench tests using SS197, SS195 and handloads.
Pros
Great fun
Reliable
Super compact
High quality
Good accuracy
Easy to clean
So cool looking you will play with it forever.
You can shoot it at most indoor ranges.

Cons
Big time Nerd gun (stargate fans and airsofters in the FN forum)
Factory sight is a PITA
Eventually you will start dreaming of SBRing it
You will find the 5.7 is extremely effective but no one will believe you.

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Side note on accuracy, when I bench tested it I used a NF 5.5 x 22. With the factory sight best I could get was 3 moa at 100 yards. Again, dont get the factory sight

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

I bought one when they first came out, tons of fun and with little practice you can shoot claybirds off the berms at 200 yds standing, ammo prices are not very nice but they are reloadable with any 5.56 cal bullet from 55gr and under, true blue is the powder of choice and any pistol primer will do. I made a bunch of shellplate for the dillon 550B and they sold like hotcakes.
like everybody said the cool factor is high and always gather acrowd at the range.
eliteammunition has some really cool stuff for make it more "interesting" and way more potant than regular fiocchi ammo.
make sure you buy the ones with the 'secret service" sights, it is black aluminum housing with the black doughnut rings, it is way better than the white ring plastic model.
hope this helps.

 

[Kodiak61]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Only real problem I see is once you buy one you will shortly be spending another 1k on the pistol because it is just as fun to shoot.

No recoil, high capacity and the same smoking hot ammo as the ps90.

Eliteammunition makes some good stuff too.

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Know what? After this thread I took mine to the range again today... I gotta say I love shooting it, sooo much fun. Go for it.

 

[PostSoDak]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Had a chance to shoot a friend's at the range yesterday. Nifty little gun. No recoil to speak of. Decent ergonomics, although it could use some length adjustment for it to be a more comfortable fit.

 

[Black Dog]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Both the PS90 and the the FN pistol are a blast...I own both and are a good choice to get women and kids into shooting!!!

 

[USACS]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

The 5.7mm is a junk round. People claim it's great, but SWAT teams that actually shoot people with it have found otherwise. FBI ballistic results are not especially favorable for it either. The leading ballistic experts have adamantly stated and restated how poor the performance is with the sub-caliber rounds like the FN 5.7x28 and HK 4.6x30. They're rounds that were designed to be fired at full auto into a target, with high round-count bursts being used to basically pump the individual full of bullets until they finally go down. Additionally, every Spec-Ops/Tier One group that has used them has since replaced them due to poor terminal performance.

How do I know all of this? I was tasked with researching the P90, among other weapons, for my SWAT team. I have ballistics data from the FBI and conversations with top level ballistics experts that adamantly denounce the 5.7 and 4.6 cartridges.

As quoted by a SWAT officer for a major jurisdiction in Florida:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">- 30 P90's for five years
- 100,000 rounds per year through those weapons
- very reliable weapon
- very user friendly
- very easy to shoot
- everyone happy
- three OIS's later and some unbelievably poor terminal balistic performace we dropped them...quickly.

- 22+ OIS shootings using AR-15's with .223...everyone happy (except the 21 dead bad guys).

Question?

</div></div>



It's a reliable gun and fun to shoot, but that's about it. If you're looking for one for shooting at the range and just some fun, then disregard and carry-on. If it's for personal/home defense, look elsewhere.

 

[Kodiak61]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

I am not one to argue with FBI research, with that said what ammunition were they using for the tests and the bad guys?

I only have experience shooting paper, wood and fruits and veggies with mine.

This is not a pofessunEl test or anything, but using some of the elite ammunition (raptor) it was night and day difference as to the destruction of a watermelon. And this was out of the pistol.

Like many weapons, ammo choice is the key to unlocking the weapons destructive power.

If the FBI and Swat reports are so terrible, what is the Secret Services motive and test support data for carrying them?

Again these are just questions as I dont have the jargoneeze qualifications to back up anything with professional answers.

 

[MDStroup]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

I know you didnt ask about this but, if you already have an ar15, how about getting an ar57 upper for it instead of the FN PS90. I havent seen the prices for the ps90 but i assume the ar57 upper is less expensive. They go between $600-700, take the same 50 round magazines as the ps90, and you get to keep the ergonomics of the ar15.

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MDStroup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know you didnt ask about this but, if you already have an ar15, how about getting an ar57 upper for it instead of the FN PS90. I havent seen the prices for the ps90 but i assume the ar57 upper is less expensive. They go between $600-700, take the same 50 round magazines as the ps90, and you get to keep the ergonomics of the ar15. </div></div>

I had thought about that, but I have quite a few AR's and I'm just bored with the AR platform right now.

 

[bm11]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Gotta SBR it if you buy one...

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gotta SBR it if you buy one... </div></div>

Shit yeah

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Actually, where is a good resource to learn more about these? I can't really find much info about the different optics and generations and accessories of the PS90.

 

[Bedlam]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

I had one. It was super cool in its own way and I even used it in competition several times, mostly for fun. I eventually sold it though, and have no regrets about selling it.

Magazine changes are tough to get used to. Yeah, all bullpups are difficult, but this one is extremely difficult to get it right, quickly, every time.

Ammo is expensive and much harder to come by.

The factory sight is useless, or maybe even worse than useless. Every single person I handed the PS90 to started to do the "head bob" trying to find the reticle.

Never cared for the way the barrel is loose and spins a little bit in either direction.

It definitely wouldn't be my first choice for self-defense, combat, or competition. It's okay for adding a unique and interesting gun to the collection.

Just about the only thing great about it is the coolness factor. But if you don't live in an SBR-legal state, then even that factor is reduced tremendously with that ridiculous barrel.

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gotta SBR it if you buy one... </div></div>

Shit yeah </div></div>

You'll love the PS90...it puts down 9x19NATO energy with more penetration...and you'll soon be after a tax stamp. Simple to field strip, clean and train too. Ammo...it can still be found at $21.00 per 50. That isn't bad for very accurate, very clean burning, centerfire ammuntion. If they made a bolt gun (Savage...I'm waiting) chambered in the round I'd pick it up in a heartbeat.

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Ah, looks like you have the USSS sight on it I see? (if I'm correct).

Is that an AUG flash hider?

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah, looks like you have the USSS sight on it I see? (if I'm correct).

Is that an AUG flash hider? </div></div>

Yes...and mostly yes. The flash hider is from an MSAR. Was a place holder for the P90 flash hider.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

The biggest problem with the 5.7x28 is that folks insist on comparing it to the 5.56.

It is NOT a rifle round. It is a high velocity pistol round.

That is an apples to oranges comparison. Instead, compare it to the 9mm in a pistol caliber carbine.

How many 9mm rounds will penetrate level III-A soft body armor?

The 5.7 has it's place, it is not perfect but if your choice is a 9mm carbine or a 5.7 when doing an entry, I would think you would lean towards something that would penetrate body armor.

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

OP...at the end of the day, I think the PS90 is a very collectable weapon, is easy to maintain and operate...and I would not hesitate one second to use it in a self defense capacity. Mine has been 100% with factory ammo, regardless of type, with over 3,000 empties to prove it. It's a weapon I won't part with.

 

[Black Dog]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

I own 2 of these as well has the pistol. You can carry lot's of ammo with little effort!!!

 

[USACS]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 5.7 has it's place, it is not perfect but if your choice is a 9mm carbine or a 5.7 when doing an entry, I would think you would lean towards something that would penetrate body armor.</div></div>
That's subjective, because most 9mm duty JHPs pass FBI ballistic tests with 12-18" of penetration into bare gelatin, as well as through all of the tested barriers other than soft armor.
In contrast, most 5.7 loads don't. You have to revert to an AP round for that. And a 5.7 may defeat Level IIIA soft armor, but there are numerous trauma inserts that defeat the 5.7 (non-AP).
The 5.7 is NOT ballistically better than a 9mm or any other combat pistol caliber. The only thing it brings to the table is the ability to defeat soft armor. On soft tissue, it's inadequate.

Both pistol and sub-caliber SMGs are sub-optimal, and should be phased out from all LE and SWAT duty. Period.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kodiak61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not one to argue with FBI research, with that said what ammunition were they using for the tests and the bad guys?

I only have experience shooting paper, wood and fruits and veggies with mine.

This is not a pofessunEl test or anything, but using some of the elite ammunition (raptor) it was night and day difference as to the destruction of a watermelon. And this was out of the pistol.

Like many weapons, ammo choice is the key to unlocking the weapons destructive power.

If the FBI and Swat reports are so terrible, what is the Secret Services motive and test support data for carrying them?

Again these are just questions as I dont have the jargoneeze qualifications to back up anything with professional answers.</div></div>
Ammo was non-AP. Beyond that it doesn't really matter since the issue is pretty widely spread. The FBI has done extensive research indicating that the 5.7 and 4.6 are sub-optimal.
Additionally, the top ballistics experts also denounce these rounds as inconsistent and ineffective.

Shooting a watermelon proves nothing for lethality. Watermelons don't mimick soft tissue. Unless you shoot 10% ballistic gelatin, or you shoot a pig, you won't be getting an accurate reflection of ammunition capability.

As stated by a previous poster, the 5.7 is a fast pistol round. Pistol rounds only cause damage by the permanent cavity they create; not by the temporary cavity from initial expansion or yaw. Basically, it's about the diameter of the hole and what organs or tissue that hole goes through. Rifle rounds work differently.

As far as the USSS, keep in mind that they're a highly political agency. They're extremely fearful of overpenetration, and with a 5.7, overpenetration is easily mitigated. They work in very close quarters around groups of people. If a round overpenetrated and hit some senator's mistress, there would be political hell to pay. I highly doubt that the FBI was involved in that decision, and if the USSS contacted the FBI BRF, I'm sure someone at the BRF likely told them it was a bad idea. I would love to be a fly on that wall, but ultimately I wasn't there for the decision and I don't know if the USSS ever contacted the FBI about it. If they did, I'm sure the USSS made up their own mind and heard what they wanted to hear. For them, the P90 is a very compact and concealable gun. They still carry their Sig pistols in .357sig though, so obviously it's not about the round, but more about the size of the weapon that they're after with that regard.
Keep in mind that the USSS still has QRF teams in trucks with ARs and miniguns.

A neighboring agency has P90s on their SWAT team and thinks they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. They extoll how reliable and accurate and easy to shoot they are. The P90 is certainly all of those. However, this agency has never shot someone with a P90, so all they have is range time on paper to tell them how awesome this gun and round are.


For info on 5.7 ballistics, refer to here:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, where is a good resource to learn more about these? I can't really find much info about the different optics and generations and accessories of the PS90. </div></div>
There are forums www.FNforum.com and FNforum.net

Just, brace yourself okay, it's not like the hide. Like I said before there is a heavy nerd following to this system

 

[fdkay]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

In all actuality, the original PDW, which was accepted in the us military service in 1942 is far superior to all the pistol caliber carbines and all the pdw rounds with the exception of the KAC 6x35.

I am talking about the venerable .30 cal M1 carbine.

When loaded with soft point or expanding ammo, it is devastating.

Jim Cirillo used it to excellent effect in his NYPD stakeout squad.

The one advantage that it has over an AR is the fact that ear pro is not an absolute requirement in confined spaces.

 

[500grains]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

I had a chance to shoot the FN in 5.7 full auto. It was not for me, that's for sure.

 

[Blasst]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

you should look at youtubes top ten bullpups. Number 3 is the FS2000 and I certainly agree. Just sold mine but I'm going to get another......decided I want one. Incredible design. I wouldn't even consider a 5.7. Ammo costs more...and on and on.
Cute and interesting but not what I'd buy.

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

I just bought one. Firing it was a bit underwhelming but i do not know what i expected, maybe hollywood gasoline explosions.

But for home defense, definately something to consider;

Pros:
Form factor 6
Ammo count
Lack of noise ( will not deafen you)
Lack of muzzle flame ( preserve your night vision)

Cons:
Iffy wound ballistics and likely a lack of hydrostatic shock

I got what I am told is the LE, version, with a tunnel through the top rail and a fixed front sight. Theoretically good enough for BUIS, but the rail itself is too high to get decent cheek weld if you mount an optic on it. I am going with the Tros USA low profile rail and an Aimpoint. Really too bad as I wanted to put an EOTech on it, but Tros does not do a low, profile rail for the EOTech. Do an image search and check out what your intended optic will look like on the gun. The rail design is driven by the mag placement, which leaves your optics being pretty high.

I hear the USSS sight is good, and I hear all the others are junk.

 

[aubie515]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Gotta love these "all day long" comments...it's BS...5.7 isn't a 400 yard caliber and it would be tough to see it with 4x at that range.

I really liked my PS90...I miss it at times since it's only a handful of true ambi rifles being offered. I'll probably pick up another one at some point.

What I find is that people either love it or hate the 5.7...it's not for everyone that is for sure. I just dislike all the myths I read online...especially when it comes to the articles that were written over 10 years ago. A lot has changed over the last 10 years in regards to the 5.7...don't believe me...take a look at Elite Ammunition...not cheap, but they are doing some interesting things with the ammo.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MK12 MOD0 SPR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you want a cool rifle everyone will look at, great for home defense, has 50 round mags, and just an all around sweet bull pup, get one. my brother has one and <span style="font-weight: bold">he shoots steel gongs at 250 to 400 yards all day with a 1-4x24 scope.</span> and every time he brings it to the range people always flock to it and just wanna check it out. great for kids, has almost no recoil and you can double tap for days.

only down side I've seen is the ammo, its a little expensive and kinda limited on choices. otherwise its great. btw the little 35-40gr bullets don't exactly ring loud when they hit past 200 yards but its still fun. </div></div>

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

P.S. Rumor on the internet is that a load of PS90s is about hit the market. I cannot tell you that this is true, but I have noticed that prices have dropped about a hundred bucks in the last two weeks or so to about $1500.

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

If you're LEO/MIL...you can but them NIB from copesdistributing for $899...

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aubie515</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gotta love these "all day long" comments...it's BS...5.7 isn't a 400 yard caliber and it would be tough to see it with 4x at that range.

I really liked my PS90...I miss it at times since it's only a handful of true ambi rifles being offered. I'll probably pick up another one at some point.

What I find is that people either love it or hate the 5.7...it's not for everyone that is for sure. I just dislike all the myths I read online...especially when it comes to the articles that were written over 10 years ago. A lot has changed over the last 10 years in regards to the 5.7...don't believe me...take a look at Elite Ammunition...not cheap, but they are doing some interesting things with the ammo.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MK12 MOD0 SPR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you want a cool rifle everyone will look at, great for home defense, has 50 round mags, and just an all around sweet bull pup, get one. my brother has one and <span style="font-weight: bold">he shoots steel gongs at 250 to 400 yards all day with a 1-4x24 scope.</span> and every time he brings it to the range people always flock to it and just wanna check it out. great for kids, has almost no recoil and you can double tap for days.

only down side I've seen is the ammo, its a little expensive and kinda limited on choices. otherwise its great. btw the little 35-40gr bullets don't exactly ring loud when they hit past 200 yards but its still fun. </div></div> </div></div>

You mean...it's BS to think it's not capable of this...correct. If "we", the sniper's hide bunch...can lob 40grain 22LR rounds out to 300 yards...then I think us poor PS90 folks can do it with the 5.7 and a BDC, or correction to, equipped optic.

 

[317millhand]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BravoSector1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're LEO/MIL...you can but them NIB from copesdistributing for $899... </div></div>

OR, OMB guns for $799.

Thats way below dealer cost on these, and a steal.

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 317millhand</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BravoSector1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're LEO/MIL...you can but them NIB from copesdistributing for $899... </div></div>

OR, OMB guns for $799.

Thats way below dealer cost on these, and a steal. </div></div>

Yeah, unfortunately I'm just a lowly civilian looking for one to shoot, so I guess I'll have to pay double unless one of you LEO guys wants to pick one up and make $100

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

Here is my limited experiance with the 5.7x28. It really is a decent round. What it can do to prairie dogs and coyotes is just too gross to describe. It shouln't be compaired to the .223 but in the same sentence, it shouldn't be compaired to the .22 wmr wither it really is its own thing. The only thing I hate about the round is, it is really not reloadable, you can do it, I would advise agaisnt it though. I have some good results from barnes varmint grenades but since reading more I have realized that it is actually a bit dangerous to reload because of the thin brass is and how far the shoulder gets bumped.It is a really neat round, as long as you don't compair it and understand it is its own animal.

Now for the gun, like I said it really is a fun gun to shoot and own. Ballistic debates aside. Isn't that the point of owning any gun as a civilian, because its really fun?I think so, its a hell of a conversation piece, really fun to shoot and just as fun to just own. I have debated selling mine but I just can't because of the fact evey time I shoot it i giggle like a school girl with a crush. You feel like a super hero shooting steel plates because its so damn fast. Its worth the money and I honstly believe its a decent investment as well as a good cartridge.

 

[priler]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90



i prefer an aks-74u krinkov and the shortened barrel will hardly affect it's terminal performance.

thank you USACS for helping me from having to write a lengthy post just to repeat everything you stated.





by the way,i also love stargate sg-1 and if that makes me a nerd,so be it. their weapons choices and weapons handling was painful to watch though.

 

[Irish Bacon]

Re: Thinking about an FN PS90

My brother has one and it is a lot of fun.