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Rifle Scopes Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

jrob300

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 7, 2009
2,492
6
Montana
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Introduction</span>:
</span>

Many of you have followed my Field Test series and in many ways this is a follow-up to the original Razor 5-20 vs. SS 5-20 as the Razor I used for that test had the original ocular. I promised to update when I got one with the ocular upgrade and I've owned two now and had a chance to look at another example of the SS, so I thought it time to not only update that information, but include another huge player in that "below-$2000 tactical scope" category. I now own a Bushnell DMR 3-21 with the excellent GAP G2 reticle. I also am including information on the NF NXS 5-22 as this comes up all the time, even though it's SFP.


<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Testing:</span></span>

As I stated in the past, when most people think of scope performance, they think optics. I don't place nearly as much importance on this, as at the end of the day it’s a sighting tool. Camera lenses and binoculars have to have great glass. Scopes not so much. For the most part, if I can see through it, I can use it if it does its mechanical job the way it should. More on this later.

Tracking and adjustment accuracy, reticle design, mechanical robustness and industrial design are far more important to me than optical performance (with a few exceptions... as I've said many times... if you're hunting in low light or identifying threats in a darkened window or doorway at distance, you have special needs. Most of us do not fall in this category.)

For each category, I'll list them in order from best to worst.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Tracking and Adjustment Accuracy</span>

After verifying that the scopes were indeed level in the rings on each rifle, I set the rifles in a vise at 100 +-.5 yds from a 10 mil x 5 mil grid that is plumb and level. The crosshairs are centered on the "zero" intersection. The scope is run up 10 mils, down 10 mils and left/right 5 mils. Then the same grid is used to determine the accuracy of the reticle as well as whether the reticle is plumb and level in the scope tube.

Results:

All four scopes showed perfect adjustments and tracking as well as reticles that calibrated accurately.

<span style="font-weight: bold">
Reticle Design.</span>

This is a very subjective topic. In this case all of the reticles were very useable and unobtrusive. All of them allow a shooter to engage targets and hold for wind or elevation without confusion (with the exception of the SFP NXS, but I'll get to that).

DMR G2: I really like this reticle. It is perfect for my use, with two exceptions. Firstly, the wind holds must have been designed around my shooting partners old 7STW shooting 180 Bergers, 'cuz with my .260, I often have wind holds that fall outside of what is provided by the reticle. I'd love to see a bit more windage on that christmas tree. Secondly, compared to the Razor, the reticle appears to have been etched by an aged Herzegovenian in a thatched hut. By comparison, the Razor’s reticle is crisp and sharp and black at the edges and very contrasty, whereas the G2 is a little less well defined and almost translucent at the edges.

Razor: I absolutely LOVE the reticle in the Razor HD 5-20 EBR 2 and 2B. With one exception... it's too thick for my taste. I shoot both tactical matches and precision. I have a .260 that is probably capable of benchrest level accuracy, except I shoot it in the dirt from bipod and bag, even so, it will often group .25 moa or less to 750 yds and beyond. I have a much more difficult time exacting the performance of the rifle with the reticle in the Razor than the G2 or the MLR. Yes, I can use an aiming point in the "christmas tree" but thin is fast and aiming dots are not. Other than that, by far the best executed reticle of the bunch. If Vortex took a page from the G2 and simply offered a .03 mil middle section, I'd be in heaven. The P4F, Gen II XR and the G2 all have thin reticles and work just fine in FFP.

NXS 5-22: the MLR reticle is showing its age and NF has responded with new designs. The MLR pales in comparison to any of the other reticles, but is outstanding for placing precision shots. The one thing I will add here... I would still own the NXS if I could have found a reliable way to use the SFP reticle without making mistakes, but simple is smart and I went back to FFP.

SS 5-20: a bit too thick for my tastes. The more I use it, the more I dislike it. I find the diamonds with dots overkill. I want elevation and wind holds *without* obstructing my target. If the reticle were thinner, it would help, but simple hashes would be sufficient.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Mechanical Robustness.</span>

All four of these scopes feel very strong and robust and have gotten great feedback from customers. If your life absolutely depends on it, either the Razor or the NXS would be my recommendation, but I understand that there are many HMDR's in service in the middle east with no real reported issues. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that says the the SS's are holding up very well. I never had any mechanical problems with any of these scopes.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Turrets</span>
I separated this out from ID, because when we have discussions about scopes, there are usually two areas of focus: glass and turrets. The important issues here are ability to quickly make accurate adjustments, good audible as well as tactile feedback, and they need to stay set when carrying slung or handling in brush.

NF NXS 5-22: The NF turrets are nearly perfect. They were without doubt the best in feel of the group, and even though they are HS (10 mil/rev.) they are extremely precise and I never had a question about the adjustment. They have very good feedback, both audibly and by feel and work very well with gloves. I never had them move without me turning them.

Razor 5-20: I initially hated the huge turrets, but have gotten used to them... the clicks are audible and can easily be detected while wearing gloves and I love how the turret "snaps" firmly into each .1 mil increment. I would love to review one of the new 10 mil/rev. Razors and see how the feel compares, but the 5 mil/rev version is nearly perfect.

DMR 3-21: Other than being a bit large the turrets are excellent. Once I got used to the locking feature, I was able to make field adjustments nearly as fast as the NXS and Razor. Clicks are firm (but not quite as "snappy" as the NXS or Razor. I would think a 10 mil/rev. version of this scope would have some of the same issues as the SS due to the smaller adjustment spacing). Although they are not as crisp as the other two, gloves are no issue. The Bushy does suffer a little from the same thing the Weaver tactical does with the locking turrets. When trying to press them back down, they often need a little wiggle to get them to go back down.

SS 5-20: The SS is 10 mil/rev . The more I use the other 3 scopes, the less I like the turrets on the SS. And it's not just because the others are 5 mil/rev. The NF is 10. I used my SS to shoot a couple matches and definitely spent more time making sure I was really on 3.6 mils and not 3.7. There is just enough slop and not quite enough "snap" to make me lose confidence in what I was looking at. Terry Cross argues that 5 mil/rev. is superior because of the increase in speed and confidence in adjustment. The SS 5-20 makes his case for him.

<span style="font-weight: bold">
Industrial Design.</span>

By ID, I am addressing the user controls and layout. Does the scope have a layout and controls that help or hinder a shooter.

NXS: This scope is the Velociraptor of the scope market. Lean, no frills, no marketing hype (well, there was the NXS with the 7.62x39 hole…) , just pure performance. Everything about this scope just works. The ZS is awesome, parallax and focus are aligned. Great layout. Well, there is that antiquated illumination and somewhat irritating ocular that rotates with the magnification ring, but other than that, scope perfection.

Razor: Fantastic fit and finish. Zero stop is awesome, although I found it less intuitive to set than the NXS. I do like that zero can be really set for zero. The new ocular design seems easier to rotate than the old one, almost too easy. Parallax works great and is well aligned with focus. Hate the location of the illumination. It blocks access to the magnification ring when I tried to change it quickly in match situations. Prefer the location on the SS much more. A cattail would help with this.

DMR G2 3-21: Very utilitarian, but everything just works. Lack of illumination and ZS may concern some. I swore that I’d never own another scope without ZS, but I’m making do for the money I saved.

SS 5-20: The magnification ring on the SS is really hard to find and turn without breaking cheekweld. A cattail is a necessity. Other than that all the controls were placed well and worked as they should. I did notice that the focus and parallax settings were different for both scopes I’ve seen. In other words, when parallax is properly set, the scope in not properly focused and vice versa. I really like the locking ocular. I wish more companies offered this. Lack of a ZS may be a concern to some, but with 10 mil/rev it’s less of an issue.



<span style="font-weight: bold">Optical Performance.
</span>
For this segment of the evaluation, I placed the following chart at 100 yds. I've also spent hours laying behind each one and have included my general subjective comments about my experience.

usaf1951x180.gif



What I looked for here was the smallest set of 3 bars that the scope could resolve as well as general attributes such as edge sharpness, overall brightness and contrast chromatic aberration and edge to edge sharpness. Most of us err on the side of the subjective, but one of the things I learned in this evaluation is that subjective evaluation does have its place.

All scopes were set at 20x (the Bushy was set to 21x and NF to 22x)and were 100 yds. from the target.

Razor: either the ocular upgrade really improved the performance of this scope or I got two really good examples. They are much sharper and crisp and contrasty than the last example I had. Colors were reproduced accurately and have a little "pop". I could easily resolve down to the "5" in the "-2" row (dead center of chart)and depending on atmospherics, could resolve the "6" bars. This scope now rivals the SS for glass quality and for under $2000 both offer excellent glass that is enjoyable to look through and does everything I would ask a scope to do very well, including low light performance. Just the faintest hint of CA. I would call this a tie for first…

SS 5-20 HD: This scope was nothing short of amazing when it came to optical performance. Crisp. Sharp. Bright. Contrasty. Colors are accurate. Very little CA. Simply amazing for a sub-$2000 scope . Very similar to the Razor with the improved ocular. I could easily resolve down to the "5" in the "-2" row (dead center of chart)and depending on atmospherics, could resolve the "6" bars.

NXS 5-22 – Although the NXS has good resolution, the glass isn’t nearly quite the visceral experience that the Razor and SS give. The light is a little “flatter” and colors don’t pop as much. If anything it looks just a touch “hazier” than the first two. CA is in line with the first two. I could easily resolve down to the "5" in the "-2" row (dead center of chart).

DMR G2 3-21: <span style="font-weight: bold">EDIT:</span> This is the second scope of this type I've owned. The first was an HDMR H59. I returned it for full refund because of exactly the sort of IQ issues observed on this DMR G2.

This was only disappointing attribute I could find on this scope. Compared to the Razor and SS the glass is poor. Light is very flat and colors appear as if they would on an overcast day with a distinct blue-grey cast. There is a LOT of chromatic aberration which I find highly distracting when looking at a white steel plate on a bright day or trying to count points on a bucks rack. It minimizes a lot if you center your eye perfectly behind the scope, but as you move your eye off center even slighty, the very distinct purple fringe will follow your eye around the center. This is the second Bushnell 3-21 I’ve owned. The first was an HDMR with the H59 and I sent it back to Horus as defective. The glass looked just like this model. I sent this example to Todd Froloff at Bushnell, explaining that I was going to be doing a review on it and wanted to make sure that I represented their product accurately. It was returned to me untouched as “within specification”. When I spoke with Todd, he stated that what I was seeing was as the result of a design compromise to enhance performance in other areas by adjusting the coatings on the lenses. When I asked him to email me the exact areas that were supposedly enhanced, as well as the exact verbiage so I could effectively test these supposed enhancements and represent the advantages to anyone who might read this review, I never received anything back. My personal opinion is that Bushnell made an executive decision to not address this and sugar coat it with marketing speak. Either way, it's an eyes open business decision on the part of Bushnell. Whatever the case, I found the glass very disappointing for a scope in this pricepoint. Surprisingly, despite the rather bland view through the scope, resolution was actually the best of the four. I could resolve “6” quite easily even though there was CA, but this is where subjective meets objective and where Bushnell might actually be running into problems. When set up on a test bench and evaluated with test fixtures, this scope may look just fine, but get it into the field and the shortcomings are immediately apparent. Another note on the Bushy, although they call it a 3-21, it is actually more like a 4.5-21, as below about 4.5x all that happens is the image gets smaller with no increase in FOV.

Note: Before all the Bushnell owners jump in here and bash me, I know this has been hashed and rehashed. I know a lot of you are thrilled with your scopes. All I can do is test and report what I see, and the two examples I’ve had, have very poor glass. If Bushnell’s acceptance specification is very generous, this could easily account for the differences. But future buyers need to know that there is a chance you could get one like mine and Bushnell will think it’s just fine and will not replace it.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Conclusion</span>

The ocular upgrade to the Vortex Razor HD 5-20 definitely made it the scope it was intended to be. Kudos to Vortex for not making an in-process change, but notifying existing customers of the change and offering free upgrades. Other companies often respond to customer feedback by making transparent changes without notifying the installed base. With all the features the tactical community demads and outstanding glass, the Razor is definitely the frontrunner of this group *IF* you can live with the control layout and the reticle. Different scopes have very different “personalities” and what works for one, may not work for another even if it is a great scope.

Second place would have to go to the Nightforce NXS 5-22 HS ZS. If you can work with an SFP scope, this is an outstanding all around performer that does almost nothing to disappoint. But again, need will drive whether this scope is appropriate for you or not. Glass is not quite as good as the Razor or SS, but certainly did not make me cringe when I got behind it like the Bushy does every time.

Third place would have to go the Bushnell DMR G2 3-21. Why? Even with the poor glass, I find it much easier to get fast accurate elevation adjustments and the reticle is MUCH more flexible than the SS. At the end of the day, this makes it a better match scope for me and the reticle, even though it is FFP allowed me to easily shoot a bee at 100 yds. This is a very utilitarian scope. No frills, just great mechanical performance. I like to think of it as a Weaver 3-15 EMDR on steroids.

The SWFA SS 5-20 is an excellent scope at the Hide one-time (now expired) discount price of $1000. The $1500 pricepoint makes it less attractive to me given some of the nitpicky things I dislike about it. For instance, I can live with the poor glass of the Bushnell because I can buy it for less than $1100, but if it were $1750, I’d never even consider it. The $1250 non-illuminated version is a step in the right direction. I would like to see either NF quality turrets or go back to a nice, crisp 5 mil/rev. I cannot afford a mistake of .1 mil when I’m shooting a match. I would also like to see a thinner reticle with plain hashes, but again that’s a personal thing. The SS *is* the lightest of the four by a fair bit and that may be a factor to some.

Remember, a lot of this is very subjective based on personal need. If you own one of these scopes and I didn’t rate it well, it’s not a personal attack. These things are tools. They should not be an extension or expression of our ego. If it works for you. Great. But I pay for my scopes. I get nothing from the manufacturers, so I call ‘em as I see ‘em and you get my raw, unadulterated, as often as possible objective, opinion.

John
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Conclusion: you get what you pay for. Thanks for the review, glad I got my SS st the group buy price!
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Thanks for taking the time and effort or this. Good stuff.

Although I dont recall a Weaver EMDR review..?
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

I've owned all the scopes mentioned except the HDMR. I find this review very spot on.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Great review. I have long been a NF user because of the very things you stress as important to you. I have, in twelve years of using them, never had a NF scope fail.
Also, I was recently blasted for my opinions of SS HD scopes as being overhyped and over priced, so it is nice to see that I can be somewhat validated here.
Thanks!
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Thanks for this review. I am trying to decide on a new scope, I thought I had decided on the HDMR but after nevering handling one I will rethink my decision.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Nice review,If you factored in the cost differences (HDMR 40% less then Razor and SS 25% less etc)would that sway your pecking order in say overall value?
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice review,If you factored in the cost differences (HDMR 40% less then Razor and SS 25% less etc)would that sway your pecking order in say overall value? </div></div>

You raise a decent point and I did address this to a degree regarding the DMR 3-21. My goal was to compare raw performance, but for many of us cost is definitely an issue and from the Bushnell to the Razor is quite a cost spread.

In my case I did sell my SS 5-20 and bought another Razor. That cost me quite a bit of money as I got my SS for $1000. Yes, the Razor is that good. But I also sold a Razor and bought the DMR G2. For $700 difference, I can can put up with poor glass and no ZS (well, for now...
wink.gif
) and a better (for me) reticle. I think that cost/benefit/feature/downside matrix is a little different for each of us.

John
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Great review, and i agree with most of it. Although for me i chose to go with the HDMR.

i weighed most of the same options, and thought they were all nice optics, but for a cost savings as well as really personally just wanting to get my hands on a Horus....i've not had a complaint with mine yet, although i've never stretched it beyond 600.

I checked out a few other scopes at local comps and such and didn't notice an amazing difference in CA, once I started looking for it, i saw it in all to varying degrees.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CajunAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great review, and i agree with most of it. Although for me i chose to go with the HDMR.</div></div>

FWIW, the DMR G2 now sits atop my match rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CajunAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I checked out a few other scopes at local comps and such and didn't notice an amazing difference in CA, once I started looking for it, i saw it in all to varying degrees. </div></div>

I've heard and read this response from more than a few owners. It's actually why I decided to try one again. Both of mine had awful CA in comparison to the three other scopes and you'd have to be blind to miss it. There are too many that say theirs aren't that bad to believe that they don't know what they're talking about. The only conclusion I can come to that makes sense is that there is a lot of variation possible from sample to sample and I happened to get two on the far end of the scale. Luck of the draw.

John
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Great HONEST review!! Sad to hear so much bad stuff about the SS, when all i see is nothing but good stuff about it!
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

If the NF was FFP would you still choose the Razor over it? I owned a Razor, and while it's a very good scope, I prefer the NXS.

For some reason there were a few little things on the Razor that bothered me. They're probably stupid but they just bothered me. For one the tube is freaking huge!!! They should be able to get enough elevation adjustment, in the thing, to shoot 4 miles with a -20moa base. The elevation turret was also a bit big but the windage turret didn't seem to bother me. I couldn't stand the rubber power ring, it seemed really cheap. An aluminum ring would be much better. The illumination sucked!!! Not that the NF illumination is the best on the planet but it's out of the way and for the amount that I use it one setting is fine. The fiber optic thingies are worthless. Do away with those and spend the money on a better power ring. And just anodize the thing black. If I want a brown scope I will Cerakote it.

I was really excited when I ordered the Razor. It just didn't do anything for me when I actually got it in my hands and put some pills down range. I really wanted to like it as both the warranty and CS is outstanding. IMO, the Razors only advantage over the NF is that it's FFP but that shouldn't last forever.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

It broke my heart to sell my NXS. If it was FFP, I'd still own it, even with the MLR. Even more so with the new reticle options.

John
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CajunAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great review, and i agree with most of it. Although for me i chose to go with the HDMR.

i weighed most of the same options, and thought they were all nice optics, but for a cost savings as well as really personally just wanting to get my hands on a Horus....i've not had a complaint with mine yet, although i've never stretched it beyond 600.

I checked out a few other scopes at local comps and such and didn't notice an amazing difference in CA, once I started looking for it, i saw it in all to varying degrees.</div></div>


Are you close to Alexandria? I've been wanting to look thru and handle
an HDMR.....
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Actually down in BR. I try to make the prone and/or FPR matches so we could meet up at one of those if you want. Otherwise drop me a msg on here if you're heading through this way and I'll let you check it out.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

I've had a couple guys PM me for the resolution chart I use.

If anyone else want's it:

http://accurateshooter.net/targets/usaf1951.pdf

Just remember that resolution is only a small part of optical quality and scopes that are otherwise very poor optically, can still resolve very well.

John
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

That is one excellent write up John! Thanks.

I like your candidness and would have summed up my thoughts the same although I found a few things that differed. I found the glass was better in my HDMR's than the Razor that I had but that was a year ago when I compared them. I wonder if Vortex starting using better glass lately and if Bushnell decided to skimp a little on their's???

I'm sure the Horus reticle lovers out there can empathize with me about my next statement. The biggest thing for me about the HDMR is the H-59 reticle. That alone saved me in the neighborhood $1500 per scope vs buying a new USO, S$B, Premier, NF, etc with a Horus reticle in it. I wasn't about to buy any of the other Horus brand scopes because of the short warranty and the tracking issues I've had with them.

The HDMR is a different animal altogether though. Like you stated, "utilitarian" but it does the job nicely.

Strangely enough my NF F1/H58 has become my backup scope on my backup rifle. I use it for night shoots and as a loaner. 15X on the top end is OK, I just like higher mag sometimes. It's such a good scope in many ways other than the 15X. I can't believe Nightforce didn't come out with a 5.5-22 F1/HS/ZS!!!

Right now the Razor with 10 mil knobs is looking very appealing. I'd consider buying one again based on what you wrote.

Time to bitch again to the scope manufacturers. Would you guys please design 10Y parallax into your scopes!
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Steve,

I have heard mixed reviews on the image quality on the HDMR and DMR G2. I talked to a dealer today who has a customer that is not happy at all with the IQ on his DMR G2 and it sounds very similar to mine. It's been back and forth to Bushnell twice. Hazy and lots of purple fringe, and Bushnell says it meets spec. Here's the rub. He has a friend who has one and he says the two scopes are night and day. I know that the H58 HDMR that my friend has is stunning. So Bushnell is capable. I am seriously thinking of returning this one for a full refund under the Bullet Proof Warranty. I just think it's BS that they can't give me another scope, but I have to return this one and buy another. Bushnell really needs to wake up and see what companies like Vortex are doing with regard to their customer service.

John
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve,

I have heard mixed reviews on the image quality on the HDMR and DMR G2. I talked to a dealer today who has a customer that is not happy at all with the IQ on his DMR G2 and it sounds very similar to mine. It's been back and forth to Bushnell twice. Hazy and lots of purple fringe, and Bushnell says it meets spec. Here's the rub. He has a friend who has one and he says the two scopes are night and day. I know that the H58 HDMR that my friend has is stunning. So Bushnell is capable. I am seriously thinking of returning this one for a full refund under the Bullet Proof Warranty. I just think it's BS that they can't give me another scope, but I have to return this one and buy another. Bushnell really needs to wake up and see what companies like Vortex are doing with regard to their customer service.

John </div></div>

I have to agree with you on the HDMR. I bought one in the group buy. I've used it since the first of the year. The optics are a bit hazy and there is a distinct purple/blue fringing around white objects that is distracting. I'm also disappointed with Bushnell's take on this. I'll probably keep the scope, but it's not what I expected.

I do like the turrets not being subjected to being bumped and being inadvertently moved and the ease of re-setting zero on the knobs.

I have an IOR 4th gen. 3.5-18X50 that has superb reticle and glass, but the large elevation turret is prone to moving if bumped( I've done it a few times). The re-setting to zero is a pain due to having to loosen 4- 2mm screws and the screws do loosen on their own at times.

Thanks for the review.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

we sat a razor next to a nxs at dusk looking into the edge of a tree line at 550y, the NXS could see a tree, the razor i could see the bark detail...
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Thanks for the review. Great info. I will be purchsing a scope soon and you certianly answered some of the questions I had about the Razor and the NF NSX. Good stuff.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

John,

Excellent post! Answered a question I posted this morning. Thanks!!
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve,

I have heard mixed reviews on the image quality on the HDMR and DMR G2. I talked to a dealer today who has a customer that is not happy at all with the IQ on his DMR G2 and it sounds very similar to mine. It's been back and forth to Bushnell twice. Hazy and lots of purple fringe, and Bushnell says it meets spec. Here's the rub. He has a friend who has one and he says the two scopes are night and day. I know that the H58 HDMR that my friend has is stunning. So Bushnell is capable. I am seriously thinking of returning this one for a full refund under the Bullet Proof Warranty. I just think it's BS that they can't give me another scope, but I have to return this one and buy another. Bushnell really needs to wake up and see what companies like Vortex are doing with regard to their customer service.

John </div></div>

I remember you sent that first HDMR back. I was hoping Bushnell would have taken care of the CA and IQ by now, guess not.

It'll be interesting to see what other scopes or next generation scopes come out for 2013.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember you sent that first HDMR back. I was hoping Bushnell would have taken care of the CA and IQ by now, guess not.

It'll be interesting to see what other scopes or next generation scopes come out for 2013.
</div></div>

I'm in the process of seeing if I can't get hold of a better sample. Barring that, this one is demoted to "placeholder" status, until my economic situation improves. A guy shouldn't have to buy three scopes to get a good one though.
mad.gif


John
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Very informative review. Great selection of scopes. The NXS section in the "optical performance" portion of your review was very interesting when compared to that of the Razor. Great stuff!
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Those of you with the SS 5-20 and have a stiff parallax knob there is a cheap fix. Go to wally world and buy a tire tube for a road bike. Cut it cross ways into a small strip (like a rubber band) and wrap it around the parallax knob. Makes a world of difference. Also works well on the mag ring but there is also a cat tail available from SWFA.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

somebody should sticky this for the gazillion this vs this vs this vs this scope questions.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

This came up in another thread, and I thought it only fair to post my response here, as it may clarify some things for some readers.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RFutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John's review of the SS 5-20 I think he was using a very early model. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.</div></div>

Let's try to put this to rest.

There were two distinct but interrelated turret issues that I highlighted with my original SS 5-20.

a). due to 100 marks around the perimeter and 60 splines, depending on where your zero fell, the hash marks may or may not align. SWFA has addressed this and it now works as it should.

b). due to some "slop" in the actual detent for each click (which got worse with use on mine), coupled with the above problem, made it nearly impossible to tell which hash I was on quickly.

I have handled a new production SS 5-20 and while (a) is fixed (b) was better, but they were still not on par with my NXS, Razor or DMR with regard to click quality, detent precision and compared to the HS NXS knobs (10 mil/rev.), ability to quickly and accurately obtain the result I desired. Could I use them? Yes. Did I like them? Better, but not great. I think I gave them an 8/10. These are my opinions. I'm calling no one out or implying anything other than it did not meet my expectations or need and I reported what I observed. Yes, it placed last of four, but last is relative and the four are so close, that the order would be eight different ways if eight guys reviewed them. Remember, at one point I rated it a better buy than the Razor, but the Razor improved in a key area, and my usage of the two scopes also changed from ELR to shooting tactical style steel matches, so my need of what a scope does for me changed. Also keep in mind what Frank said, I rated the DMR better even though it has pop-bottle glass, because it's really inexpensive by comparison and I can use it. If it was the same price as the SS, the order would DEFINITELY be reversed.

The SS 5-20 is a fine scope. But if I bought one today without knowing what I know today, I'd STILL be disappointed. Especially to the tune of $1500 vs. $1000. I simply communicate to others my observations. You guys should know not to take anyone's word as gospel. I try to give as much objective analytical feedback as I can, as I believe its a lot more useful than, "It's a bitchin' scope dude. Totally rocks". If you don't like my input, or it doesn't jive with your observations, simply disregard it.

Obviously many, many people are happy with this scope and I have no issue with that. I have unreasonably high expectations of myself and my equipment. Bushnell and I are still sorting through my issues with their DMR... so SWFA is not alone here and Sam and Scott at Vortex hear from me on a semi-regular basis. The good news is that these guys ARE LISTENING and seem to care what we think. My hope is that this type of feedback winds up with us all having better scopes.

John
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

This came up in another thread and this review is further discussed in the thread linked below.

Questions On Splitting Hairs With Top ELR Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moadrifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In posts:
Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS
Questions: SWFA SS HD 5-20x50 for Long Range
JROB300 did an excellent longer term comparative review concluding that the SS 5-20x50m has unbelievable optics for the price (this is reported everywhere), however extended use under competition stress shows that the turrets are not in the same league as the high end scopes listed above for high precision ELR and/or rough field work applications (turret slop +/- 1 click is also reported in other posts).
</div></div>

Questions On Splitting Hairs With Top ELR Scopes

The thread linked above has alot of good information and debates in regards to the SS turrets. We welcome anyone that is in the Dallas area to stop by and compare them to any other scopes we have in stock. We've done it countless times and feel very confident that you will see that there is no issue with our turrets.
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

i ran the knob up and down the adjustment range like 20-30 times one night while watching tv and it runs super smooth now, couldn't be happier with the scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RFutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those of you with the SS 5-20 and have a stiff parallax knob there is a cheap fix. Go to wally world and buy a tire tube for a road bike. Cut it cross ways into a small strip (like a rubber band) and wrap it around the parallax knob. Makes a world of difference. Also works well on the mag ring but there is also a cat tail available from SWFA. </div></div>
 
Re: Field Test: Razor v SS v DMR G2 v NXS

Thanks for this review. I found it very informative and well written. It will help me decide whether to get the razor or the NXS