Im putting together a 284AI on a defiance repeater long action with a 26" 8.5 twist barrel. Im going to be shooting the berger 180 and was wanting to get them as close to 3000fps as possible. is anyone shooting this cartridge and if you are am I going to be far off from my goal?
- Thread starter slapdud
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Re: 284 rifle build
I don`t think the 284AI will do 3000fps but you should be able to get around 2900+. Good luck!
I don`t think the 284AI will do 3000fps but you should be able to get around 2900+. Good luck!
Re: 284 rifle build
I'm shooting a regular 284 with the 180's getting 2755fps out of a 28" barrel. I'm not pushing them hard at all though, it's just where I've had a good accuracy node. I could probably push it to 2850-75 pretty easy though.
I'm shooting a regular 284 with the 180's getting 2755fps out of a 28" barrel. I'm not pushing them hard at all though, it's just where I've had a good accuracy node. I could probably push it to 2850-75 pretty easy though.
Re: 284 rifle build
With a BC of .674 I think the 180gr berger at 2900fps should do extremely well.
With a BC of .674 I think the 180gr berger at 2900fps should do extremely well.
Re: 284 rifle build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don`t think the 284AI will do 3000fps but you should be able to get around 2900+. Good luck! </div></div>
This....with a couple disclaimers
Sane pressure
Sane barrel length
If 3k fps is important to you, you'll need a magnum.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don`t think the 284AI will do 3000fps but you should be able to get around 2900+. Good luck! </div></div>
This....with a couple disclaimers
Sane pressure
Sane barrel length
If 3k fps is important to you, you'll need a magnum.
Re: 284 rifle build
How many rounds do you have down that 284? I have read that i should expect around 2500 rounds before I will need to have the barrel set back. I was going to build it off of a 7mm SAUM but man if you want to burn up a barrel that is a sure way to do it.
How many rounds do you have down that 284? I have read that i should expect around 2500 rounds before I will need to have the barrel set back. I was going to build it off of a 7mm SAUM but man if you want to burn up a barrel that is a sure way to do it.
C
captrichardson
Guest
Re: 284 rifle build
Best advice that I can give you on a .284,
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek088.html
The load development info is toward the bottom, though it is for a standard .284 not an AI. According to that info, which I would take given the authors, 3,000 FPS is not going to happen. Not sure if going with the AI could make that big of a difference?
I REALLY! want to build a .284, I have a crazy idea of trying to build something for practical/tactical shooting and F-Class, but I think that I am going to end up with a Jack of All and Master of None.
Managing the recoil on the .284 is going to be one challenge. Without being able to run a Brake or Can in F-Class, if I manage the recoil with the weight of the rifle, it is going to be no good for practical/tactical shooting.
Per above, getting the max velocity is going to be the other challenge. A 28"-32" barrel is the best option for the max velocity, but there is obviously nothing practical/tactical about that long of a barrel.
Oh well, good luck with your build!
M Richardson
Best advice that I can give you on a .284,
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek088.html
The load development info is toward the bottom, though it is for a standard .284 not an AI. According to that info, which I would take given the authors, 3,000 FPS is not going to happen. Not sure if going with the AI could make that big of a difference?
I REALLY! want to build a .284, I have a crazy idea of trying to build something for practical/tactical shooting and F-Class, but I think that I am going to end up with a Jack of All and Master of None.
Managing the recoil on the .284 is going to be one challenge. Without being able to run a Brake or Can in F-Class, if I manage the recoil with the weight of the rifle, it is going to be no good for practical/tactical shooting.
Per above, getting the max velocity is going to be the other challenge. A 28"-32" barrel is the best option for the max velocity, but there is obviously nothing practical/tactical about that long of a barrel.
Oh well, good luck with your build!
M Richardson
Re: 284 rifle build
I am building a practical/tactical rifle which is why I went with a 26" pipe. I studied several cartridges and read that article and decided with the 284 because it has suprisingly decent barrel life and will perform well at ranges 600-1000yds.
Ackley improving it happened when I called my smith and he has a 284AI reamer on hand.
I am building a practical/tactical rifle which is why I went with a 26" pipe. I studied several cartridges and read that article and decided with the 284 because it has suprisingly decent barrel life and will perform well at ranges 600-1000yds.
Ackley improving it happened when I called my smith and he has a 284AI reamer on hand.
Re: 284 rifle build
By "284AI", are we talking about a Shehane? If so, it isn't much of an Ackley-izing, as the 284, straight from Winchester followed all of the AI directives. Low body taper, sharp shoulder. The Shehane just decreases taper, giving about 3gr extra capacity.
Also, if it WERE to produce 3k fps, barrel life would not be appreciably different from a 7SAUM or 7WSM achieving the same velocity. No free lunches.
ETA: Just in case you hadn't thought about it - don't forget about dies! Shehane dies are expensive, as are straight up customs.
By "284AI", are we talking about a Shehane? If so, it isn't much of an Ackley-izing, as the 284, straight from Winchester followed all of the AI directives. Low body taper, sharp shoulder. The Shehane just decreases taper, giving about 3gr extra capacity.
Also, if it WERE to produce 3k fps, barrel life would not be appreciably different from a 7SAUM or 7WSM achieving the same velocity. No free lunches.
ETA: Just in case you hadn't thought about it - don't forget about dies! Shehane dies are expensive, as are straight up customs.
Re: 284 rifle build
Ill have to talk to the gunsmith in the morning. I asked him about improving the case and he said when we started talking about this build he thought it was already assumed that I wanted to improve the case. Looking at the Ackley stuff they dont make a 284AI so it is probably the shehane. I know he builds the stocks for Bill.
Ill have to talk to the gunsmith in the morning. I asked him about improving the case and he said when we started talking about this build he thought it was already assumed that I wanted to improve the case. Looking at the Ackley stuff they dont make a 284AI so it is probably the shehane. I know he builds the stocks for Bill.
Re: 284 rifle build
I just started shooting a 284 and the recoil is very manageable without a break-it feels like a 308. I started with 162 Amaxes and they shot very well to 1000. I even had 3 hits in a row at 1650 yds at TVP on Saturday. This is a great round.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best advice that I can give you on a .284,
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek088.html
The load development info is toward the bottom, though it is for a standard .284 not an AI. According to that info, which I would take given the authors, 3,000 FPS is not going to happen. Not sure if going with the AI could make that big of a difference?
I REALLY! want to build a .284, I have a crazy idea of trying to build something for practical/tactical shooting and F-Class, but I think that I am going to end up with a Jack of All and Master of None.
Managing the recoil on the .284 is going to be one challenge. Without being able to run a Brake or Can in F-Class, if I manage the recoil with the weight of the rifle, it is going to be no good for practical/tactical shooting.
Per above, getting the max velocity is going to be the other challenge. A 28"-32" barrel is the best option for the max velocity, but there is obviously nothing practical/tactical about that long of a barrel.
Oh well, good luck with your build!
M Richardson </div></div>
I just started shooting a 284 and the recoil is very manageable without a break-it feels like a 308. I started with 162 Amaxes and they shot very well to 1000. I even had 3 hits in a row at 1650 yds at TVP on Saturday. This is a great round.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best advice that I can give you on a .284,
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek088.html
The load development info is toward the bottom, though it is for a standard .284 not an AI. According to that info, which I would take given the authors, 3,000 FPS is not going to happen. Not sure if going with the AI could make that big of a difference?
I REALLY! want to build a .284, I have a crazy idea of trying to build something for practical/tactical shooting and F-Class, but I think that I am going to end up with a Jack of All and Master of None.
Managing the recoil on the .284 is going to be one challenge. Without being able to run a Brake or Can in F-Class, if I manage the recoil with the weight of the rifle, it is going to be no good for practical/tactical shooting.
Per above, getting the max velocity is going to be the other challenge. A 28"-32" barrel is the best option for the max velocity, but there is obviously nothing practical/tactical about that long of a barrel.
Oh well, good luck with your build!
M Richardson </div></div>
Re: 284 rifle build
If you want those velocities, go with a 7wsm instead.
If you want those velocities, go with a 7wsm instead.
Re: 284 rifle build
If it ends up being closer to 2900fps that is still plenty of velocity. With a BC of .674 the bullet will still be travelling 1650fps with 1100ft-lbs of energy at 1000yds. My next concern would be on the opposite end of bullet weight. With a 8.5 twist im wondering what is the lightest bullet that it will be able to fire without fragging the projectile. If i could get a 120gr projectile shooting around 3200fps it would be an extra added bonus to this rifle.
If it ends up being closer to 2900fps that is still plenty of velocity. With a BC of .674 the bullet will still be travelling 1650fps with 1100ft-lbs of energy at 1000yds. My next concern would be on the opposite end of bullet weight. With a 8.5 twist im wondering what is the lightest bullet that it will be able to fire without fragging the projectile. If i could get a 120gr projectile shooting around 3200fps it would be an extra added bonus to this rifle.
C
captrichardson
Guest
Re: 284 rifle build
This is a "million dollar debate" in the world of F-Class as I have seen it.
The 7mms are basically impossible to beat for BC, unless you want to get into the .30 cal magnums or larger, which are not an option in F-Class since Brakes & Suppressors are not allowed.
So when you go 7mm, you have the "Mild, Medium, & Max"
Mild - 7mm-08, great barrel life, low recoil, but can't really produce the velocity that you need.
Medium - .284, good barrel, manageable recoil, very close to optimal velocity
Max - 7mm Mag (WSM, SAUM, etc), short barrel life, pretty much need a Brake or Suppressor or a fair amount of weight for reasonable recoil, best option for maxing out the 7mm ballistic performance.
If you go back a couple of years to the 2009 F-Class World Championship, the Brits beat the US (who were shooting 6.5mms) with 7mm Mags, and in 2005 the South Africans also won shooting a 7mm. Guess what the US Team will be shooting in 2013 at the Championships, 7mms!
"Million Dollar Question" now, which 7mm will it be?
Go with a .284, and you are giving up some FPS. Go with a Mag, and you will be burning barrels and beating yourself up.
For those who may not have caught it:
.284 Shehane - http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/05/284-shehane-284-improved-for-long-range/
In terms of "Tactical/Practical" for me, that includes positional shooting (sitting, kneeling, standing, to include unsupported). As such, heavy rifles with long barrels that would do well in F-Class or "Prone Matches" like the ones at Thunder Valley, don't really do that well in positional shooting. For me, "Tactical/Practical" is going to be a rifle that weighs 12-14 pounds and has a 18"-22" barrel. I don't think that a rifle along those lines is going to be a good fit for a .284?
The winners in the "Tactical/Practical" world still seem to be the 6mm & 6.5mm with rounds like a .243 or .260.
Sorry for the ramble, and the sidetrack, hopefully there is some value in there somewhere!
M Richardson
This is a "million dollar debate" in the world of F-Class as I have seen it.
The 7mms are basically impossible to beat for BC, unless you want to get into the .30 cal magnums or larger, which are not an option in F-Class since Brakes & Suppressors are not allowed.
So when you go 7mm, you have the "Mild, Medium, & Max"
Mild - 7mm-08, great barrel life, low recoil, but can't really produce the velocity that you need.
Medium - .284, good barrel, manageable recoil, very close to optimal velocity
Max - 7mm Mag (WSM, SAUM, etc), short barrel life, pretty much need a Brake or Suppressor or a fair amount of weight for reasonable recoil, best option for maxing out the 7mm ballistic performance.
If you go back a couple of years to the 2009 F-Class World Championship, the Brits beat the US (who were shooting 6.5mms) with 7mm Mags, and in 2005 the South Africans also won shooting a 7mm. Guess what the US Team will be shooting in 2013 at the Championships, 7mms!
"Million Dollar Question" now, which 7mm will it be?
Go with a .284, and you are giving up some FPS. Go with a Mag, and you will be burning barrels and beating yourself up.
For those who may not have caught it:
.284 Shehane - http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/05/284-shehane-284-improved-for-long-range/
In terms of "Tactical/Practical" for me, that includes positional shooting (sitting, kneeling, standing, to include unsupported). As such, heavy rifles with long barrels that would do well in F-Class or "Prone Matches" like the ones at Thunder Valley, don't really do that well in positional shooting. For me, "Tactical/Practical" is going to be a rifle that weighs 12-14 pounds and has a 18"-22" barrel. I don't think that a rifle along those lines is going to be a good fit for a .284?
The winners in the "Tactical/Practical" world still seem to be the 6mm & 6.5mm with rounds like a .243 or .260.
Sorry for the ramble, and the sidetrack, hopefully there is some value in there somewhere!
M Richardson
Re: 284 rifle build
No problem at all captrichardson. I have been going back and forth between .243AI and this .284 shehane build. I wanted a rifle that would do well in F-Class and also be a semi portable rifle. The 6mm stuff is a very respectable caliber at every distance I would be shooting but with a projectile that light fighting the wind becomes an issue. Then I ran across the 7mm projectiles, after much research and coming to terms with where Ill actually be shooting I decided the .284 to be the best cartridge. This rifle will be mostly fired from a bench at a range with 6,8,9 and 1000yds and ocassionaly be taken out to south dakota to take some shots at some prairie dogs.
No problem at all captrichardson. I have been going back and forth between .243AI and this .284 shehane build. I wanted a rifle that would do well in F-Class and also be a semi portable rifle. The 6mm stuff is a very respectable caliber at every distance I would be shooting but with a projectile that light fighting the wind becomes an issue. Then I ran across the 7mm projectiles, after much research and coming to terms with where Ill actually be shooting I decided the .284 to be the best cartridge. This rifle will be mostly fired from a bench at a range with 6,8,9 and 1000yds and ocassionaly be taken out to south dakota to take some shots at some prairie dogs.
Re: 284 rifle build
It's been said before, but it bears repeating:
Dual purpose rifles generally suck at both disciplines.
Suck may be an excessive term, but no way is a 26" 284 going to compete favorably with 32" 284s.
284 is a lovely cartridge but it has shortcomings; namely sensitivity to barrel length. Honestly, 26" is pushing it for a "practical/tactical" rifle. I consider 26" to be minimum for 284. Meanwhile, 26" is too short for a competitive 284 F-open rifle.
It's been said before, but it bears repeating:
Dual purpose rifles generally suck at both disciplines.
Suck may be an excessive term, but no way is a 26" 284 going to compete favorably with 32" 284s.
284 is a lovely cartridge but it has shortcomings; namely sensitivity to barrel length. Honestly, 26" is pushing it for a "practical/tactical" rifle. I consider 26" to be minimum for 284. Meanwhile, 26" is too short for a competitive 284 F-open rifle.
Re: 284 rifle build
I was on the phone with the gunsmith when you mentioned barrel length turbo. The plan now is to go with a 32" 8.5 twist krieger.
I was on the phone with the gunsmith when you mentioned barrel length turbo. The plan now is to go with a 32" 8.5 twist krieger.
Re: 284 rifle build
My Savage 26" CBI barreled straight .284 gets the Hybrid 180's up to 2800fps with a good dose of 4831sc. RL17 goes faster, but not as stable so I stay away. Mine doesn't currently have a brake and with a Decelarator pad on my McM A5 recoil is not an issue. Spotting hits can be, thats why I have a brake on order from APA.
My Savage 26" CBI barreled straight .284 gets the Hybrid 180's up to 2800fps with a good dose of 4831sc. RL17 goes faster, but not as stable so I stay away. Mine doesn't currently have a brake and with a Decelarator pad on my McM A5 recoil is not an issue. Spotting hits can be, thats why I have a brake on order from APA.
Re: 284 rifle build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jsimonh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Savage 26" CBI barreled straight .284 gets the Hybrid 180's up to 2800fps with a good dose of 4831sc. RL17 goes faster, but not as stable so I stay away. Mine doesn't currently have a brake and with a Decelarator pad on my McM A5 recoil is not an issue. Spotting hits can be, thats why I have a brake on order from APA. </div></div>
Could you (if you know) PM me with your cartridge length details? I'd like to know what the throat is like in the CBI 284 barrels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jsimonh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Savage 26" CBI barreled straight .284 gets the Hybrid 180's up to 2800fps with a good dose of 4831sc. RL17 goes faster, but not as stable so I stay away. Mine doesn't currently have a brake and with a Decelarator pad on my McM A5 recoil is not an issue. Spotting hits can be, thats why I have a brake on order from APA. </div></div>
Could you (if you know) PM me with your cartridge length details? I'd like to know what the throat is like in the CBI 284 barrels.
Re: 284 rifle build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slapdud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many rounds do you have down that 284? I have read that i should expect around 2500 rounds before I will need to have the barrel set back. I was going to build it off of a 7mm SAUM but man if you want to burn up a barrel that is a sure way to do it. </div></div>
I have 2500rds on my 284, still shooting well. 175smk's @ 2830, 27" barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slapdud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many rounds do you have down that 284? I have read that i should expect around 2500 rounds before I will need to have the barrel set back. I was going to build it off of a 7mm SAUM but man if you want to burn up a barrel that is a sure way to do it. </div></div>
I have 2500rds on my 284, still shooting well. 175smk's @ 2830, 27" barrel.
Re: 284 rifle build
I'm in the process of becoming a 7mm/.284 slut. I've had a 7mmRM for years, and I'm getting a 7-08 build done as soon as PTG gets me my reamer (which is taking forever) but looking at it practically keeps killing me.
I've got a VLS short action stock kicking around under the bench and I've been considering making it into a .284Win with a short action for an in between hunting rifle, but with the 7mmRM and the 7-08 I just don't see it getting much use.
I have been pretty drawn to the 284Win for a few yrs now, but I can't seem to find a place for it in the safe. I'm not going to shoot it in F-Class, I'm sticking with F-TR; for hunting here in the east the 7-08 does every thing I need it to do with less cost; and if I need a big hitter the 7mmRM is; and last but not least if you build it on a short action you are limiting yourself in bullets, but if your building a long action there are others with more performance in the same caliber; most of the tactical shoot guys have found a successful formula running something in a smaller case and a 6.5.
If you want to build an F-Open gun that isn't eating barrels like popcorn it seems to be a great idea, but I've seen the guys shooting the 7RSAUM. In a 22lb open rifle they don't seem to have recoil problems.
I'm in the process of becoming a 7mm/.284 slut. I've had a 7mmRM for years, and I'm getting a 7-08 build done as soon as PTG gets me my reamer (which is taking forever) but looking at it practically keeps killing me.
I've got a VLS short action stock kicking around under the bench and I've been considering making it into a .284Win with a short action for an in between hunting rifle, but with the 7mmRM and the 7-08 I just don't see it getting much use.
I have been pretty drawn to the 284Win for a few yrs now, but I can't seem to find a place for it in the safe. I'm not going to shoot it in F-Class, I'm sticking with F-TR; for hunting here in the east the 7-08 does every thing I need it to do with less cost; and if I need a big hitter the 7mmRM is; and last but not least if you build it on a short action you are limiting yourself in bullets, but if your building a long action there are others with more performance in the same caliber; most of the tactical shoot guys have found a successful formula running something in a smaller case and a 6.5.
If you want to build an F-Open gun that isn't eating barrels like popcorn it seems to be a great idea, but I've seen the guys shooting the 7RSAUM. In a 22lb open rifle they don't seem to have recoil problems.
Re: 284 rifle build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slapdud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The plan now is to go with a 32" 8.5 twist krieger. </div></div>
Won't be shoot'n that from the kneeling now will we?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slapdud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The plan now is to go with a 32" 8.5 twist krieger. </div></div>
Won't be shoot'n that from the kneeling now will we?
Re: 284 rifle build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slapdud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The plan now is to go with a 32" 8.5 twist krieger. </div></div>
Won't be shoot'n that from the kneeling now will we?
</div></div>
why not? i shoot my 31" barrel plus about 1" of muzzle brake 284 prone, kneeling, standing, sitting and off barricades. carrying it slung over the shoulder with the muzzle down is more of a hindrance than shooting it positional is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slapdud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The plan now is to go with a 32" 8.5 twist krieger. </div></div>
Won't be shoot'n that from the kneeling now will we?
</div></div>
why not? i shoot my 31" barrel plus about 1" of muzzle brake 284 prone, kneeling, standing, sitting and off barricades. carrying it slung over the shoulder with the muzzle down is more of a hindrance than shooting it positional is.
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