Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

[HighRez]

I've found some chatter from around the time the .308 168 gr. Hybrid was introduced by Berger, but can't find much that's recent or proven over time. Anyone with experience out there? I have a box on the way and looking to develop with Varget, Winchester Brass and Federal 210's. Any good data? Thanks.

Bob

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

I tested those in my 1-12 twist krieger barrel, tried from 44 to 46 gr of varget at various seating depths with poor results and ran out of bullets before any acceptable accuracy was achieved so i went back to the 175 SMK.
sorry if this doesn't help much.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

Not exactly what I wanted to hear

But thanks for passing it on. Maybe my 5R barrel will digest them a bit better.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

sorry, they were grouping okay at 100 but pass that and they were all over the place, around 3-4 MOA at 200 etc. Maybe i wasn't pushing them fast enough??
I hope you get better luck than I did.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

44 to 46 gr of Varget should have been plenty fast according to Berger. I called them today to get starting and max loadings. They suggested starting at 38 gr, and a max loading at 42.5 gr. yielding 2680 MV. Were you getting any pressure signs in the 44 to 46 range?

I'm starting my ladder at 39 and going up to 45 based on what little I've been able to find out.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

Anyone else with experience with these?

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

win brass, wolff primers, no pressures at all, maybe it was the wrong twist but the 168SMK, nosler and amax ran fine at those loads.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

I ran the ladder test today starting at 39.5 gr. of Varget and increasing in .5 gr. increments up to 45 gr. Winchester Brass and Federal 210 primers. 2.890 OAL. Rifle is a Rem 700 5R Mil Spec with 24" Sendero. There was a nice node from 42.5 to 43.0 to 43.5. At 44, 44.5 and 45 grs. results became erratic with a wide spread, but no pressure signs.

Refining the ladder, I shot another test at 42.8, 43.1, 43.4 and 43.7. Vertical spread between the 4 charges was 3/4" at 300 yards. Some real promise here! I'll load 5 rounds of each and shoot for group next week.

Berger's recommended max load of 42.5 gr. is supposed to give 2680 fps, but without a chrono, I'm guessing MV in this node is in excess of 2700.

 

[David S]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

Hi HighRez,

Have you any updates on the performance of these Berger Hybrids? Is their performance as strong as you initially suspected?

I especially want your advice on how much powder to play with: I just got one box each of the 155-grain and 168-grain .308s to experiment with, but I can't find the starting and maximum load data online anywhere. I emailed Berger, but haven't heard back. I will be using Varget, so is it safe for me to assume I should work with 40.0-43.5 grains in the 168s?

Yours,

David

 

[5RWill]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

I've got 20rds loaded into five shot groups over varget. Just haven't tried them yet. Haven't fired a rifle in a while and was scared it would be me not performing instead of the rifle. Eventually i'm going to try them but i don't expect them to group considering they're seated at 2.830 and the jump to the lands is too far. I guess it's still worth a try though.

 

[GNERGY]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

I loaded some 168gr. Hybrids with 44 thru 47 grains of Varget and didn't get them to shoot less than inch at 300 yds. I am using Lapua palma brass with Fed. match primers loaded to 3.030 which is .010 0ff the lands in my Rem. factory 5R barrel.
I tried AA2520 ranging from 43.5 grs. which gave me 2639 fps thru 48 grs. which gave me 2854 fps out of a 22 inch barrel( 24 inch factory barrel cut down ). My accurate load is 47.5 grs average 2800 fps. It is not that hot of a load in my rifle, I have loaded those cases 5 times. Neck sized to .333, 3 into .180 at 110 yds. and 5 into .755 at 300 yds. OAL is 3.030 it's .010 off the lands.I can usually keep 5 in 2 3/4 inches at 500 yds. I was practicing (to shoot an F class match in a couple weeks and shooting prone off a bipod) I put 8 in a 1 1/4 inch orange dot at 300 yds.
I say them Hybrids can shoot.
Tarey

 

[David S]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

Okay, these Berger hybrids are impressive in my rifle at any rate. I loaded fifty at a 0.010" jump with Lapua brass, Varget powder, and BR2 primers and tried them out just yesterday, which, excepting one issue I discuss below, gave me my best round yet. At charges of 39, 40, 42, and 42.5 they all grouped tightly. For some odd reason 41 grains was a disaster: almost 1.0 MOA. I've no clue what that's about. I mean, <span style="text-decoration: underline">all</span> the other charges performed well and two performed very well.

Now, even where the bullets grouped well something funny <span style="text-decoration: underline">was</span> happening whereby in a five-shot group I'd consistently have four all sit neatly within a 0.25"-0.3" cluster at 100 yards, but a fifth went very wide in an uncalled flyer. At two charges that flyer pushed the group all the way out to ~1.0 MOA, while in others it just nudged it to 0.5. "Why," you ask? Beats me, and that's what I'm wondering. Might it be that one of my lands needs to be lapped? Do I need a gunsmith to check my barrel with a scope? I really am out of my depths and just guessing here. Has anyone any ideas as to where I might start troubleshooting?

Thanks much,

David

 

[5RWill]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

Well i shot the first 5 shot group today out of my .308 that i just got back. Having not shot the gun in 11 months (it's only been gone for 2-4) i'm not putting stock in these groups. Though out of five shots i know i had two jerks overall got a 3 shot group of about 3/4ths not to good. Two of them though were almost the same hole so i have faith in the load/rifle combination. This was done at 100yds i have to work my nerves/anticipation back down.

This happens every year though. Less i'm shooting on a constant basis i get behind a rifle; can't control my breathing, my heart rate, steadiness, etc. I'm a mess. I should do better tomorrow weather permitting.

 

[l115a3]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

Will this 168 Hybrid better for long range shooting?

I currently run 175 LRBT with MV 2,650 fps for 600 and 800 yards.

 

[5RWill]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

Transonic stability will vary but you'll increase super sonic range due to the high BC. So there are trade offs but yes I think if you can get them to shoot they'd be great for distance. My go to load is the 175 BT LR as well. Honestly my favorite bullet I've shot from my .308. I don't plan on shooting the rest of the 168s after these varget groups; switching to hornady 178s to save some money and shoot more. So if anyone wants about 75-80 168gr hybrids id be willing to give em.

 

[bcrich]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

Ill take your remaining 168's and will pay you the shipping. I too switched back to hornady bullets due to price!

 

[5RWill]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

Alright will do. They're currently at my friends where i reload. I got one week left this semester then i'm out for winter break. I'll pm you when i get them.

 

[81STFACP]

Re: Berger 168 Hybrid. Any New Data?

I shoot the 168 Hybrids in my M1As. I've done quite well with them. The 12 twist Krieger prefers the N540 load, whereas the 11 twist Krieger shoots the 4320 load better, both loads clocked over 2700 thru the CDE chrono.