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newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

Prebanpaul

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 2, 2009
2,261
709
Akron Ohio Summit
Going to shoot longer distance on sunday for the first time with out kentucky windage. I have hunted a lot of ground hogs and shot out to 500 yarsds. Never carried a log book. Just kind figured out how the gun shot. Now I have a long distane rig set up and want to get more serious at shooting longer distances.

My scope is a Leupold Mark 4 8.5x25x50 tmr reticle. Took my gun out and shot a perfect zero at a 100 yards. Shot the gun at 200 yards, and it shot 4 inches low and two inches to the right.

What is the easiest way to log this informatinon. How should I make the scope adjustments, or use the lines in the scope. I.E. should I log 8 clicks down and 4 click right. for two hundered zero, or list which mil marks it is. and leave the zero at 100.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

Are your turrets graduated in 1/4 MOA's, 1/2 MOA's, or .10 mRads?
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

It sounds like you need to do a profuse amount of reading before you even need to worry about writing anything down. Basic things like holdover values and how to measure them, as well as some general ballistic understanding.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

Believe your Mk4 with TRM has 1/4MOA windage & elevation turrets. Check? What caliber and bullet type are you shooting? Your 4" low and 2" right at 200yds is consistent with a 308 sending a 168gr SMK at 2600fps in a 2MPH left wind.

Recomend logging your "comeups" and wind adjustments in 1/4MOA increments for each range fired. Essentlally your creating a Range Card. Easiest method for recording all data is to score an Impact Data Book for NOMAD on SH.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

1) Determine your muzzle velocity. If you don't have a chronograph, see if you can't find someone who'll let you get some readings with theirs.

2) Plug in the MV, pertinent load data (drop down menu), and atmospheric conditions here:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

3) Either print out the readout, or make your own drop chart from it. Use mil or MOA to match your scope turrets.

4) Shoot the specific load at various ranges and determine how closely the predicted drops match your actual drops.

5) Tweak your drop chart as necessary until it matches the actual drops.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

With your TMR you can either dial up or hold; practice both. Generally, I like to dial elevation and hold for wind, that way you're holding at a point on your horizontal stadia, which is more precise and faster than trying to hold at some imaginary spot in an empty place in you FOV.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

Maybe because TVP has a 1 mile target. I believe that is longer than 1000 yards, and I would like to eventually get there. I catch on quick, I may do this on Sunday. Also I figured that the best people to ask, are the people shooting longer than a 1000. I would think that they have the most expirence. Also I figure that there would be some insight as to what happens when you run out of elevation.

Reinman that is what I was thinking about doing. I appreciate yours and every one elses helpful knowledge on this subject.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

@Dfoosking, thank you so much, spent two hours watching it and then going to Leupolds website learning to use the tmr reticle.

@gstay thanks I saved that to my favorites. I am hoping that I will be able to add some information to the charts.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

I would recommend doing things this way:

1.) Set up your targets at known ranges
2.) Shoot a group at your first range
3.) See where the point of impact is in relation to your point of aim (measure or mil it)
4.) Adjust your scope and fire another group (do not worrry about using your reticle to hold off right now)
5.) Once your group is centered on your point of aim note down the adjustments required on your scope to hit point of aim at that range. (this is what you call DOPE)
6.) Record any information you are able to record about the atmospheric conditions and light conditions for the time that group was fired.
7.) Repeat this for every range.
8.) You will now have your DOPE (data on previous engagements) for all those ranges for the atmospheric conditions you shot in for that day.

Since you are new, I would not get too wrapped up in learning how to use PDA's and ballistic software. I would recommend keeping your shooting well within the supersonic range of your round in the location you shoot and going out on days where the atmospheric conditions are different than the day you got your DOPE. Learn how they affect your shooting and how each condition effects your DOPE card. Also, if you can, shoot at different altitudes (if possible) and note how that changes your bullets impact.

Once you see these "differences" you will ask why, once your asking why, come online and learn whats going on.

By going out and establishing a DOPE card, and by shooting, you will naturally come upon the questions you need to be asking. If you jump right into PDA's and ballistic software, its my opinion that you can get lost and get off track in your learning.

I was brought up on the traditional method of collecting DOPE that I explained above. I was also taught what effects my bullet and why, as it was happening. I got to see it happen real world, ask the questions that came to mind, and walk away with a good understanding of my shooting situations. It was after doing that for a while, that I entered into PDAs and software. Because I had a good basic understanding of external ballistics that was based on real world experience, I was able to get more out of the PDAs and software than had I just stumbled in head first.

You might be able to just jump into the technology, read a lot and figure it out. I hope you can, but I think there is something to be said for learning hands on and then seeking answers to your questions that were caused because you were out there doing it.

There is a lot to learn, everyone who likes this hobby or does it for a job can learn every day. It is also very rewarding and interesting.

I hope you enjoy it as much as I have.

 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You've got alot of learning left to get down before you really need to worry about jotting down data.
</div></div>

No disrespect meant, but I think he should record everything he can at this point. It may not serve any use to him yet, but down the road it will be something he can come back to and learn from without having to shoot more rounds just to re-acquire that data.

I agree that there are more important places to start, I just dont see the harm in noting what he can for use at another time.

After all, hes paying for that data every time he pulls the trigger
wink.gif
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

Thanks for all the great information. I will be writing down all the information that I can. I am not very good at grammar, but in the math department watch out. I understood the moa after watching the video the first time. Pissed me off though as all last night I was trying to watcth the Olympics and mentally was giving my self moa problems.

@arso31 thanks for the insight, you need to post more one here. Very helpfull person. I will let you guys know my first real shooting begins tomorrow. I am going to Thunder Valley in Ohio. It should be awesome.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prebanpaul</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My scope is a Leupold Mark 4 8.5x25x50 tmr reticle.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMOK!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Believe your Mk4 with TRM has 1/4MOA windage & elevation turrets.</div></div>Does your Leupy adjust in MOA or IPHY?
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prebanpaul</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The adjustments in the scope are 1/4 inch at 100 yards. </div></div>They're not 1/4 MOA, then.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

moa is 1.0467 or something very close. So is there any scope that adheres to this. I know how to closely convert my scope into MOA calculations, thanks to an above posted you tube video.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

I used this information and created a spread sheet on My Ipad. I have it so I document all of the dope. I set it up so that I can just put in my drop and it calculates my dope and how many click for elevation that I need. Its pretty cool. I also set it up for columns of general information. IE wind,elevation,temp, humidty and general notes. Excited for tomorrow. My goal is to make it to atleast 700 yards.
 
Re: newbie mil vs adjusting cross hair

If you haven't tried it yet still think JBM is one of the most accurate ballistic programs to use if you enter all the correct info in you get amazing settings out.

Have fun out there at TVP. We're thinking about visiting Rayners later this week to tweak a bit. If interested be glad to have you join in.

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