Well I just returned from one of Uncle Sam's forced savings vacations all excited to spend 2 months of savings on a new F T/R rig to find a USPS certified letter notice in the mail pile. These rarely bring good news in my personal experience. Turns out that the roofing company that did my roof in May before I left did not pay his supplier and now there is a lien on my property for $4700! Anybody have any experience with this or know a good construction law guy in the Jacksonville area.
- Thread starter jason8251
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Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
As a mater of fact!
PM inbound
As a mater of fact!
PM inbound
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
That sucks.
That sucks.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
I never understood how these construction liens worked. If the person who bought the materials didn't pay the bill, it should be that person that the supply house has a grievance against...not the unsuspecting homeowner who has already paid a bill for materials and labor to a contractor.
I never understood how these construction liens worked. If the person who bought the materials didn't pay the bill, it should be that person that the supply house has a grievance against...not the unsuspecting homeowner who has already paid a bill for materials and labor to a contractor.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
Check to see whether Florida has a law that protects homeowners from construction liens attaching to their property when they have already paid the contractors or builder. If so, the lien might be extingusihed by filing an affidavit and providing evidence of payment.
Check to see whether Florida has a law that protects homeowners from construction liens attaching to their property when they have already paid the contractors or builder. If so, the lien might be extingusihed by filing an affidavit and providing evidence of payment.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
Think about it. In most forms of commerce where a good is sold, if it is not paid for, it is repossessed or compensated for in some way or it is considered stolen.
The lien laws that apply are complex but there is protection offered to the "Owner" of the property who must include a notice to owner form for the contractors, Sub contractors and vendors in order to issue a permit.
This is one of the problems that follows when people choose to forego the permitting/inspection process or prefer to do self help where legal services are a wise course.
If the final payment to the roofer did not include a lien waiver stating unequivocally that the potential lienors are satisfied by that final payment, then the owner runs the risk of having to pay more than he contracted to satisfy the vendors and subcontractors stiffed by the contractor the owner made his deal with. A final waiver of lien, signed by the contractor means he assumes all legal responsibility to pay his subs and vendors.
This of course doesn't obviate the potential remedies of the owner but unless he gets an attorney on this, he runs the risk of having a lien on his property which could cause him a good deal of problems.
It could also be a bluff.
Think about it. In most forms of commerce where a good is sold, if it is not paid for, it is repossessed or compensated for in some way or it is considered stolen.
The lien laws that apply are complex but there is protection offered to the "Owner" of the property who must include a notice to owner form for the contractors, Sub contractors and vendors in order to issue a permit.
This is one of the problems that follows when people choose to forego the permitting/inspection process or prefer to do self help where legal services are a wise course.
If the final payment to the roofer did not include a lien waiver stating unequivocally that the potential lienors are satisfied by that final payment, then the owner runs the risk of having to pay more than he contracted to satisfy the vendors and subcontractors stiffed by the contractor the owner made his deal with. A final waiver of lien, signed by the contractor means he assumes all legal responsibility to pay his subs and vendors.
This of course doesn't obviate the potential remedies of the owner but unless he gets an attorney on this, he runs the risk of having a lien on his property which could cause him a good deal of problems.
It could also be a bluff.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the final payment to the roofer did not include a lien waiver stating unequivocally that the potential lienors are satisfied by that final payment, then the owner runs the risk of having to pay more than he contracted to satisfy the vendors and subcontractors stiffed by the contractor the owner made his deal with. </div></div>Should a home owner who paid once run the risk of having to pay twice?
http://www.becker-poliakoff.com/pubs/articles/lesser_s/lesser_understanding_the_operation.html
http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/pro/cilb/documents/florida_lien_law.pdf
I would first check to see whether the lien was recorded and served properly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the final payment to the roofer did not include a lien waiver stating unequivocally that the potential lienors are satisfied by that final payment, then the owner runs the risk of having to pay more than he contracted to satisfy the vendors and subcontractors stiffed by the contractor the owner made his deal with. </div></div>Should a home owner who paid once run the risk of having to pay twice?
http://www.becker-poliakoff.com/pubs/articles/lesser_s/lesser_understanding_the_operation.html
http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/pro/cilb/documents/florida_lien_law.pdf
I would first check to see whether the lien was recorded and served properly.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the final payment to the roofer did not include a lien waiver stating unequivocally that the potential lienors are satisfied by that final payment, then the owner runs the risk of having to pay more than he contracted to satisfy the vendors and subcontractors stiffed by the contractor the owner made his deal with. </div></div>Should a home owner who paid once run the risk of having to pay twice?
http://www.becker-poliakoff.com/pubs/articles/lesser_s/lesser_understanding_the_operation.html
http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/pro/cilb/documents/florida_lien_law.pdf
I would first check to see whether the lien was recorded and served properly. </div></div>
In Florida, no permit will be issued unless a notice of commencement is also filed. The notice states in block letters the address and project number, the originator of the permit (A licensed contractor may pull the permit only for the work he is licensed to perform while the owner may pull a permit if he alone is to supervise the work) as well as the name and address of the actual owner of the property.
In block letters of a specified size (10 points as I recall) there is a warning to the owner that careful attention must be paid to the payment of mechanics and vendors in order to avoid having to pay twice!
In the case where no permit was obtained, the matter can get cloudy. Additionally, in the case of unlicensed contractors, the contract is unenforceable in the mechanics lien law! This does not remove all rights to unpaid laborers, vendors and contractors but it does make it harder to collect unpaid debts.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the final payment to the roofer did not include a lien waiver stating unequivocally that the potential lienors are satisfied by that final payment, then the owner runs the risk of having to pay more than he contracted to satisfy the vendors and subcontractors stiffed by the contractor the owner made his deal with. </div></div>Should a home owner who paid once run the risk of having to pay twice?
http://www.becker-poliakoff.com/pubs/articles/lesser_s/lesser_understanding_the_operation.html
http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/pro/cilb/documents/florida_lien_law.pdf
I would first check to see whether the lien was recorded and served properly. </div></div>
In Florida, no permit will be issued unless a notice of commencement is also filed. The notice states in block letters the address and project number, the originator of the permit (A licensed contractor may pull the permit only for the work he is licensed to perform while the owner may pull a permit if he alone is to supervise the work) as well as the name and address of the actual owner of the property.
In block letters of a specified size (10 points as I recall) there is a warning to the owner that careful attention must be paid to the payment of mechanics and vendors in order to avoid having to pay twice!
In the case where no permit was obtained, the matter can get cloudy. Additionally, in the case of unlicensed contractors, the contract is unenforceable in the mechanics lien law! This does not remove all rights to unpaid laborers, vendors and contractors but it does make it harder to collect unpaid debts.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
Been a GC for many years. Your protection was to get a lien release before paying the sub and to make sure his subs and vendors had been paid. Unfortunately for you, many states view the homeowner as the ultimate "GC". Seen this many times. You are, my friend, out $4700.
You need to file suit against the roofer and likely get in line, and try to negotiate with the vendor to maybe get something knocked off the $4700. I doubt it will be much...unfortunately.
Been a GC for many years. Your protection was to get a lien release before paying the sub and to make sure his subs and vendors had been paid. Unfortunately for you, many states view the homeowner as the ultimate "GC". Seen this many times. You are, my friend, out $4700.
You need to file suit against the roofer and likely get in line, and try to negotiate with the vendor to maybe get something knocked off the $4700. I doubt it will be much...unfortunately.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
Thanks for the info queequeg. I did some reading and found the statute says that the notice must be sent before the final payment to the contractor. The roof was completed and paid in full on May 31, the notice from the supplier was dated June 4th and postmarked June 5th. So maybe...
I'll see what the JAG says about it and hopefully I hve an out in this whole thing.
Thanks for the info queequeg. I did some reading and found the statute says that the notice must be sent before the final payment to the contractor. The roof was completed and paid in full on May 31, the notice from the supplier was dated June 4th and postmarked June 5th. So maybe...
I'll see what the JAG says about it and hopefully I hve an out in this whole thing.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K2Ballistics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been a GC for many years. <span style="font-weight: bold">Your protection was to get a lien release before paying the sub and to make sure his subs and vendors had been paid.</span> Unfortunately for you, many states view the homeowner as the ultimate "GC". Seen this many times. You are, my friend, out $4700. </div></div>
This is how it works over here. I have developed a couple properties, no GC or sub gets paid until he signs a waiver of lien document, declaring all debts and suppliers etc are paid in full. In fact, the bank requires that from us also, before advancing funds against a draw for work performed.
And as much as permits and stuff are a giant hassle, they are your best defense against shady contractors.
Sometimes " the man that considers only price, only gets what he paid for".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K2Ballistics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been a GC for many years. <span style="font-weight: bold">Your protection was to get a lien release before paying the sub and to make sure his subs and vendors had been paid.</span> Unfortunately for you, many states view the homeowner as the ultimate "GC". Seen this many times. You are, my friend, out $4700. </div></div>
This is how it works over here. I have developed a couple properties, no GC or sub gets paid until he signs a waiver of lien document, declaring all debts and suppliers etc are paid in full. In fact, the bank requires that from us also, before advancing funds against a draw for work performed.
And as much as permits and stuff are a giant hassle, they are your best defense against shady contractors.
Sometimes " the man that considers only price, only gets what he paid for".
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
Yeah I understand the law and why the law is there and who it protects. I just can't beleive that the "average consumer" is supposed to know, and be responsible for a contractor paying all his suppliers, laborers, subs, etc...
Yeah I understand the law and why the law is there and who it protects. I just can't beleive that the "average consumer" is supposed to know, and be responsible for a contractor paying all his suppliers, laborers, subs, etc...
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
Yeah I understand the law and why the law is there and who it protects. I just can't beleive that the "average consumer" is supposed to know, and be responsible for a contractor paying all his suppliers, laborers, subs, etc...
Yeah I understand the law and why the law is there and who it protects. I just can't beleive that the "average consumer" is supposed to know, and be responsible for a contractor paying all his suppliers, laborers, subs, etc...
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
Jason,
While I sympathize, I do so only because of your military service. For most homeowners, I feel little pity. The foolish (or vindictive) cheapness of too many of them breeds contempt from those of us who are licensed, bonded, insured for liability, workers comp, extra automotive coverage, etc.
Often, homeowners and unscrupulous building owners will make deals with the lowest forms of life merely because they are cheapest. How then are vendors (In this case) or subs to be paid if the owner pays the contractor without verifying that vendors and subs have been paid?
Fortunately for us there is a body of remedy in the contractors lien law established to provide for both the protection of the workers and materials people as well as the owner.
I believe you have some remedy in this case as it is possible the roofer you hired can be sued or even charged for conversion, hence there are both civil as well as criminal options for you.
As to the nature of contracting, there are perils aplenty far and above the potential for liens: Is the work competently done? Did the douchebag have workers comp insurance? Did they scope out your home? Anything missing? Was there a reference or background check?
There isn't a background check I haven't passed and I am cleared to work in DOD, Law enforcement, Schools, and every other facility that requires a background check. These licenses, insurance and credentials take time to obtain and have costs in excess of what Spermo-the-scumbag "contractor" has to bear.
It is incumbent upon the owner to avoid scumbags, as should we all. The more frequent risk for us however is the outfit that has been doing business for years and then defaults by surprise.
Perhaps there is an ACTION NEWS person you can contact who can release the hounds on the asshole roofer for you.
I hate thieves and con men. I hate those who prey on military folks far more. I am not alone.
Good luck and thank you for your service.
Jason,
While I sympathize, I do so only because of your military service. For most homeowners, I feel little pity. The foolish (or vindictive) cheapness of too many of them breeds contempt from those of us who are licensed, bonded, insured for liability, workers comp, extra automotive coverage, etc.
Often, homeowners and unscrupulous building owners will make deals with the lowest forms of life merely because they are cheapest. How then are vendors (In this case) or subs to be paid if the owner pays the contractor without verifying that vendors and subs have been paid?
Fortunately for us there is a body of remedy in the contractors lien law established to provide for both the protection of the workers and materials people as well as the owner.
I believe you have some remedy in this case as it is possible the roofer you hired can be sued or even charged for conversion, hence there are both civil as well as criminal options for you.
As to the nature of contracting, there are perils aplenty far and above the potential for liens: Is the work competently done? Did the douchebag have workers comp insurance? Did they scope out your home? Anything missing? Was there a reference or background check?
There isn't a background check I haven't passed and I am cleared to work in DOD, Law enforcement, Schools, and every other facility that requires a background check. These licenses, insurance and credentials take time to obtain and have costs in excess of what Spermo-the-scumbag "contractor" has to bear.
It is incumbent upon the owner to avoid scumbags, as should we all. The more frequent risk for us however is the outfit that has been doing business for years and then defaults by surprise.
Perhaps there is an ACTION NEWS person you can contact who can release the hounds on the asshole roofer for you.
I hate thieves and con men. I hate those who prey on military folks far more. I am not alone.
Good luck and thank you for your service.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jason,
While I sympathize, I do so only because of your military service. For most homeowners, I feel little pity. The foolish (or vindictive) cheapness of too many of them breeds contempt from those of us who are licensed, bonded, insured for liability, workers comp, extra automotive coverage, etc.
Often, homeowners and unscrupulous building owners will make deals with the lowest forms of life merely because they are cheapest. How then are vendors (In this case) or subs to be paid if the owner pays the contractor without verifying that vendors and subs have been paid?
Fortunately for us there is a body of remedy in the contractors lien law established to provide for both the protection of the workers and materials people as well as the owner.
I believe you have some remedy in this case as it is possible the roofer you hired can be sued or even charged for conversion, hence there are both civil as well as criminal options for you.
As to the nature of contracting, there are perils aplenty far and above the potential for liens: Is the work competently done? Did the douchebag have workers comp insurance? Did they scope out your home? Anything missing? Was there a reference or background check?
There isn't a background check I haven't passed and I am cleared to work in DOD, Law enforcement, Schools, and every other facility that requires a background check. These licenses, insurance and credentials take time to obtain and have costs in excess of what Spermo-the-scumbag "contractor" has to bear.
It is incumbent upon the owner to avoid scumbags, as should we all. The more frequent risk for us however is the outfit that has been doing business for years and then defaults by surprise.
Perhaps there is an ACTION NEWS person you can contact who can release the hounds on the asshole roofer for you.
I hate thieves and con men. I hate those who prey on military folks far more. I am not alone.
Good luck and thank you for your service.
</div></div>
Q I tried to send you a pm but you're over your limit...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jason,
While I sympathize, I do so only because of your military service. For most homeowners, I feel little pity. The foolish (or vindictive) cheapness of too many of them breeds contempt from those of us who are licensed, bonded, insured for liability, workers comp, extra automotive coverage, etc.
Often, homeowners and unscrupulous building owners will make deals with the lowest forms of life merely because they are cheapest. How then are vendors (In this case) or subs to be paid if the owner pays the contractor without verifying that vendors and subs have been paid?
Fortunately for us there is a body of remedy in the contractors lien law established to provide for both the protection of the workers and materials people as well as the owner.
I believe you have some remedy in this case as it is possible the roofer you hired can be sued or even charged for conversion, hence there are both civil as well as criminal options for you.
As to the nature of contracting, there are perils aplenty far and above the potential for liens: Is the work competently done? Did the douchebag have workers comp insurance? Did they scope out your home? Anything missing? Was there a reference or background check?
There isn't a background check I haven't passed and I am cleared to work in DOD, Law enforcement, Schools, and every other facility that requires a background check. These licenses, insurance and credentials take time to obtain and have costs in excess of what Spermo-the-scumbag "contractor" has to bear.
It is incumbent upon the owner to avoid scumbags, as should we all. The more frequent risk for us however is the outfit that has been doing business for years and then defaults by surprise.
Perhaps there is an ACTION NEWS person you can contact who can release the hounds on the asshole roofer for you.
I hate thieves and con men. I hate those who prey on military folks far more. I am not alone.
Good luck and thank you for your service.
</div></div>
Q I tried to send you a pm but you're over your limit...
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
Well without getting too much into it I think I'm in the clear. I understand the lein law (now that I have done my due diligence) and after speaking with an attorney I also reslize the supplier is the "innocent party" in this case. Ignornce of the law is not an excuse, for anybody, myself included.
It's just bad timing and the perfect storm, as my attorney put it. The roofer went out of business, after 22 years in the business, put a pile of cash together and split. There are 32 leins, from suppliers on homeowners from these guys. They were a well respected roofing company and I just caught them at the wrong time. My only recourse is to go after the roofer but it then becomes an economic issue and not a justice issue. In my case, a $4800 lein, pursuing criminal charges doesn't make sense since it will cost around $1500-$1800 just to get a judgement passed against this dude. Unfortunately, E-8 salary doesn't afford me the money to try to hammer this guy just out of principal.
I just want to get it out there to the guys ingnorant of the law as I was, so it doesn't happn to them. And Q, thanks again for the help.
Well without getting too much into it I think I'm in the clear. I understand the lein law (now that I have done my due diligence) and after speaking with an attorney I also reslize the supplier is the "innocent party" in this case. Ignornce of the law is not an excuse, for anybody, myself included.
It's just bad timing and the perfect storm, as my attorney put it. The roofer went out of business, after 22 years in the business, put a pile of cash together and split. There are 32 leins, from suppliers on homeowners from these guys. They were a well respected roofing company and I just caught them at the wrong time. My only recourse is to go after the roofer but it then becomes an economic issue and not a justice issue. In my case, a $4800 lein, pursuing criminal charges doesn't make sense since it will cost around $1500-$1800 just to get a judgement passed against this dude. Unfortunately, E-8 salary doesn't afford me the money to try to hammer this guy just out of principal.
I just want to get it out there to the guys ingnorant of the law as I was, so it doesn't happn to them. And Q, thanks again for the help.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
I can feel your frustration. It is sad the way the world works and how some do business now days. Having several rental houses, we constantly use contractors, and I use a few subcontractors when working on boat restorations. There are alot of shady dealings that can go on. I have learned a few hard lessons over the years. The worst having to outlay 7 grand for two motor restorations on a vintage Chris Craft, after payment had been made for the rebuilder. He took payment for the rebuilds and pocketed the money for the parts portion and never satisfied the parts supplier build. I made it right to get a lien release on the owners boat, but I learned a valuable lesson.
1. If at all possible I pay for the materials for any subcontractor. They get the bill total, I cut the check and pay the supplier directly. Sometimes the sub does not like it that way, but cost of doing business with me.
2. Upon making any final payment, on check and invoice ,I annotate clearly " Final payment for all services and related expenses and materials.". I then have the constractor sign a release statement that states " I have been paid in full for all services rendered. This includes all materials, labors, and any misc. expenses related to contract invoice and estimate. I assume all liability for any liens and judgements associated with this contract/estimate and release the owner of all responsibility."
I let the contractor know up front and see the release before we do any business. In the last 9 years have only had one who did not want to do business knowing that was at the end of the completion of services. They do not get the check in hand till the release is signed. Up till the motor fiasco I was perfectly content to do business old style handshake and a persson's word. Not anymore.
In these hard times even a well respected business, will cut and run if the burden is too great. Have seen it alot in the last few years. They want to come out with something in their pockets and mentality has changed in our society.
I can feel your frustration. It is sad the way the world works and how some do business now days. Having several rental houses, we constantly use contractors, and I use a few subcontractors when working on boat restorations. There are alot of shady dealings that can go on. I have learned a few hard lessons over the years. The worst having to outlay 7 grand for two motor restorations on a vintage Chris Craft, after payment had been made for the rebuilder. He took payment for the rebuilds and pocketed the money for the parts portion and never satisfied the parts supplier build. I made it right to get a lien release on the owners boat, but I learned a valuable lesson.
1. If at all possible I pay for the materials for any subcontractor. They get the bill total, I cut the check and pay the supplier directly. Sometimes the sub does not like it that way, but cost of doing business with me.
2. Upon making any final payment, on check and invoice ,I annotate clearly " Final payment for all services and related expenses and materials.". I then have the constractor sign a release statement that states " I have been paid in full for all services rendered. This includes all materials, labors, and any misc. expenses related to contract invoice and estimate. I assume all liability for any liens and judgements associated with this contract/estimate and release the owner of all responsibility."
I let the contractor know up front and see the release before we do any business. In the last 9 years have only had one who did not want to do business knowing that was at the end of the completion of services. They do not get the check in hand till the release is signed. Up till the motor fiasco I was perfectly content to do business old style handshake and a persson's word. Not anymore.
In these hard times even a well respected business, will cut and run if the burden is too great. Have seen it alot in the last few years. They want to come out with something in their pockets and mentality has changed in our society.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
Join pre-paid legal, it's $25, you get basically unlimited legal counseling and a letter from them on your behalf would probably make the problem go away. I've used them for 9 years now.
Join pre-paid legal, it's $25, you get basically unlimited legal counseling and a letter from them on your behalf would probably make the problem go away. I've used them for 9 years now.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jason8251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well without getting too much into it I think I'm in the clear. I understand the lein law (now that I have done my due diligence) and after speaking with an attorney I also reslize the supplier is the "innocent party" in this case. Ignornce of the law is not an excuse, for anybody, myself included.
It's just bad timing and the perfect storm, as my attorney put it. The roofer went out of business, after 22 years in the business, put a pile of cash together and split. There are 32 leins, from suppliers on homeowners from these guys. They were a well respected roofing company and I just caught them at the wrong time. My only recourse is to go after the roofer but it then becomes an economic issue and not a justice issue. In my case, a $4800 lein, pursuing criminal charges doesn't make sense since it will cost around $1500-$1800 just to get a judgement passed against this dude. Unfortunately, E-8 salary doesn't afford me the money to try to hammer this guy just out of principal.
I just want to get it out there to the guys ingnorant of the law as I was, so it doesn't happn to them. And Q, thanks again for the help. </div></div>
Don't be surprised if a new company doesn't emerge with the same assholes in charge of it. Or possibly, they will go to work for another outfit. Suppliers and subs are pretty good at networking and word gets around. Unfortunately, we also have bills to pay and sometimes have to take a chance on people we know have "Elastic" ethics when it comes to paying their bills.
In a perfect world, they would have an accident and never be seen or heard from again. But it is far from a perfect world.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jason8251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well without getting too much into it I think I'm in the clear. I understand the lein law (now that I have done my due diligence) and after speaking with an attorney I also reslize the supplier is the "innocent party" in this case. Ignornce of the law is not an excuse, for anybody, myself included.
It's just bad timing and the perfect storm, as my attorney put it. The roofer went out of business, after 22 years in the business, put a pile of cash together and split. There are 32 leins, from suppliers on homeowners from these guys. They were a well respected roofing company and I just caught them at the wrong time. My only recourse is to go after the roofer but it then becomes an economic issue and not a justice issue. In my case, a $4800 lein, pursuing criminal charges doesn't make sense since it will cost around $1500-$1800 just to get a judgement passed against this dude. Unfortunately, E-8 salary doesn't afford me the money to try to hammer this guy just out of principal.
I just want to get it out there to the guys ingnorant of the law as I was, so it doesn't happn to them. And Q, thanks again for the help. </div></div>
Don't be surprised if a new company doesn't emerge with the same assholes in charge of it. Or possibly, they will go to work for another outfit. Suppliers and subs are pretty good at networking and word gets around. Unfortunately, we also have bills to pay and sometimes have to take a chance on people we know have "Elastic" ethics when it comes to paying their bills.
In a perfect world, they would have an accident and never be seen or heard from again. But it is far from a perfect world.
Re: New F T/R rig... Nope!!! Construction Lien
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a perfect world, they would have an accident and never be seen or heard from again. But it is far from a perfect world.
</div></div>
The advice given about paying for the materials seperately yourself is good. My wife has a company that revives antique homes, and updates/modernizes them, while adding modern conveniences, many many contractors involved. She has set up a set of accounts at the local building supply stores, where she has her contractors purchase supplys to her account, for her work only of course.
One guy got cute with it, and got away with about $3500 bucks of material, some doors and paint mainly. She gave him every chance to make it right, he blew it off. So she filed charges and had him arrested for theft.
While out on bail, he boasted that he'd never pay a cent. Turned out he was right. He went fishing with some friends, jumped in the water and stroked out, and drowned.
Sometimes, that karma is a bitch....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a perfect world, they would have an accident and never be seen or heard from again. But it is far from a perfect world.
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The advice given about paying for the materials seperately yourself is good. My wife has a company that revives antique homes, and updates/modernizes them, while adding modern conveniences, many many contractors involved. She has set up a set of accounts at the local building supply stores, where she has her contractors purchase supplys to her account, for her work only of course.
One guy got cute with it, and got away with about $3500 bucks of material, some doors and paint mainly. She gave him every chance to make it right, he blew it off. So she filed charges and had him arrested for theft.
While out on bail, he boasted that he'd never pay a cent. Turned out he was right. He went fishing with some friends, jumped in the water and stroked out, and drowned.
Sometimes, that karma is a bitch....
