I have been thinking a lot about using my programming skills to develop a simulation that uses the same math used to generate ballistic tables (using G1-G8 drag models, etc.); however, I am having a hard time finding an actual set of formulas that will allow the user to input things like muzzle velocity, BC, projectile weight, and other factors that would normally be used to determine velocity, drop, wind drift, etc. at a given range. Granted, this doesn't exactly mirror reality, but it would be useful in a 3D simulation. I'll be using the python programming language and a freeware game engine that I'm learning to use. So, yesterday I emailed a ballistics engineer that works for a reputable bullet maker asking if he knew what direction I should go to find this stuff. He said that he'd recommend the book "Modern Exterior Ballistics" by Robert McCoy, if I wanted to figure it out on my own. He said that all the state of the art ballistics software are based on the information in this book. I looked it up on amazon, and it's $69.99. He said that he could provide me with a solution, but he would have to do it for a fee through an on the side consulting business he owns - Applied Ballistics, LLC. I haven't asked him yet how much the licensed "completed engine" would cost for the solution I desire, but I've got this uneasy feeling that it would be a hefty fee. So anyway, before I hastily buy this book, does anyone have these formulas that could email them to me or perhaps refer me to some link that has them? I might still get the book later on anyway, because it is probably the holy grail of ballistics research or something, but in the mean time I'd like to have something free I can work with and start developing code for. The program will mainly start out as an exercise/hobby for me, then a fun toy to simulate shooting scenarios, then I'll probably throw in custom user-defined reticles, and on and on then perhaps someday it could be refined into a marketable product. For all I know it could get so vastly complicated that I'll hit a brick wall and not make it past coding difficulties working with the 3D game engine to translate the ballistic data into an actual rendered, 3D real-time scene. However, if I do, it will be awesome - you would be able to input your typical MOA, and it would even simulate this dispersion. Ideas? Thoughts? Opinions? Encouragement, or slap in the face reality checks?
- Thread starter CenterMassHit
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Re: Math for ballistic tables?
Not a new idea for the math nerds among us but that's not meant to discourage you in the least. So you talked to Brian Litz and he offered to help you for a fee? That's money in the bank as he knows all there is to know and uses it. Kinda like hitting a home run the first time up to bat. He may or may not be the world's best shooter, I've never met the guy, but dude knows his business and he knows the math better than anyone. He also knows how the math applies which is even better. This is information I found looking into a couple of similar projects.
The first thing you need to do is look into ShooterReady.com. It's Flash based and what many people here use when not shooting in the real world. Then you need to get out there and shoot some competitions so you know the real steps to developing a load, taking, calling and recording the shot and start meeting others who would be your customers.
PM me if you want to talk further. It's about 2 months early for me but my plan was to ask here to see if any dev types want to partner up to build a couple of products. Many personal projects over the years have proven to me that it's always better to have a 2 man team building something out. That way you have someone to answer to for deliverables etc.
The good news is that there is a derth of graphic training apps for realistic long range shooting online. The bad news is that many of the people who you would expect to be your customers are more likely to just spend more time at the range than buy an application. Not all but many. Best of luck in your efforts. We may be in competition for the market in about 6-8 months
Not a new idea for the math nerds among us but that's not meant to discourage you in the least. So you talked to Brian Litz and he offered to help you for a fee? That's money in the bank as he knows all there is to know and uses it. Kinda like hitting a home run the first time up to bat. He may or may not be the world's best shooter, I've never met the guy, but dude knows his business and he knows the math better than anyone. He also knows how the math applies which is even better. This is information I found looking into a couple of similar projects.
The first thing you need to do is look into ShooterReady.com. It's Flash based and what many people here use when not shooting in the real world. Then you need to get out there and shoot some competitions so you know the real steps to developing a load, taking, calling and recording the shot and start meeting others who would be your customers.
PM me if you want to talk further. It's about 2 months early for me but my plan was to ask here to see if any dev types want to partner up to build a couple of products. Many personal projects over the years have proven to me that it's always better to have a 2 man team building something out. That way you have someone to answer to for deliverables etc.
The good news is that there is a derth of graphic training apps for realistic long range shooting online. The bad news is that many of the people who you would expect to be your customers are more likely to just spend more time at the range than buy an application. Not all but many. Best of luck in your efforts. We may be in competition for the market in about 6-8 months
Re: Math for ballistic tables?
How much math have you had? If you don't have a fresh 4 semesters of calc and 1-2 of Linear methods and ODE's the math in McCoy's book will be more than tough for most people who have taken that much.
We did something similar, ours is still "in house" and runs in Matlab's Simulink environment. It was tailored to make our lives simpler for Acoustic Chronograph post processing work over what you can manually do with JBM by fiddling.
The "1 Rev old" JBM engine can be downloaded for free from here:
http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/downloads/downloads.shtml
THere are some bugs in it as stated at the bottom of the page but JBM is considered the "Gold Standard" that is commonly compared to for testing self-written algorithms.
That should get you started pretty well.
How much math have you had? If you don't have a fresh 4 semesters of calc and 1-2 of Linear methods and ODE's the math in McCoy's book will be more than tough for most people who have taken that much.
We did something similar, ours is still "in house" and runs in Matlab's Simulink environment. It was tailored to make our lives simpler for Acoustic Chronograph post processing work over what you can manually do with JBM by fiddling.
The "1 Rev old" JBM engine can be downloaded for free from here:
http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/downloads/downloads.shtml
THere are some bugs in it as stated at the bottom of the page but JBM is considered the "Gold Standard" that is commonly compared to for testing self-written algorithms.
That should get you started pretty well.
Re: Math for ballistic tables?
There is also the open source GNU Ballistics library:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ballisticslib/
There is also the open source GNU Ballistics library:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ballisticslib/
Re: Math for ballistic tables?
I appreciate all the advice guys. Bryan Litz apparently saw my post on Sniper's Hide and sent me yet another helpful email explaining that after reading it he had a better understanding of what I was in need of, and that I could also use a more simplified model that may be easier to use for coding a training simulation by Arthur Pejsa and gave me a link to it. He explained (no offense to Arthur Pejsa) that there are more accurate, exact models out there but that Pejsa's equations should be good enough for my training simulations inside the supersonic range of the projectiles. So anyway, between that, McCoy's book, Pejsa's actual book, the JBM, and the open source GNU, I should have more than enough to get going. If and when I make progress worth rubber necking at with this I'll keep you guys posted.
I appreciate all the advice guys. Bryan Litz apparently saw my post on Sniper's Hide and sent me yet another helpful email explaining that after reading it he had a better understanding of what I was in need of, and that I could also use a more simplified model that may be easier to use for coding a training simulation by Arthur Pejsa and gave me a link to it. He explained (no offense to Arthur Pejsa) that there are more accurate, exact models out there but that Pejsa's equations should be good enough for my training simulations inside the supersonic range of the projectiles. So anyway, between that, McCoy's book, Pejsa's actual book, the JBM, and the open source GNU, I should have more than enough to get going. If and when I make progress worth rubber necking at with this I'll keep you guys posted.
Re: Math for ballistic tables?
Good luck! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Good luck! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Re: Math for ballistic tables?
You know, if you develop something outstanding there would be any number of game developers that would purchase your engine to make sequels to games like Battlefield 3 become even more realistic. Hope you get a great thing going - good luck!
You know, if you develop something outstanding there would be any number of game developers that would purchase your engine to make sequels to games like Battlefield 3 become even more realistic. Hope you get a great thing going - good luck!
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