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Sidearms & Scatterguns 45 ACP or 357 Sig

W

warpig602

Sergeant
Minuteman
Sep 2, 2010
135
3
Cedar Rapids, IA
Ive found myself at a crossroads again. Ivbe owned both a Sig 239 and 245 before and for one reason or another sold them both. I now have botha gain and im debating which one I want to use for my primary carry piece.
Bothe conceal equally well and close enough in size, especially the grip, that it isnt really a factor. What it comes down to is would you rather have 8+1 of 357 Sig or 6+1 of 45ACP?
Ultimately its just a conversation question as both will work fine. Just curious as to your thoughts.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

.357 SIG, but I'd bump it up to a 229. 239 is fine, but I'd do that in 9MM. That said, to confuse you, CDNN is still showing SAO compact beavertail 220s for $589, equipped and not stripped.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

Here's 2 cents from the new guy. I haven't had any experience with the 357 Sig but those who have seem to love it. I like the 45 acp just for the fact you can get ammo for it just about anywhere.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yakface</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's 2 cents from the new guy. I haven't had any experience with the 357 Sig but those who have seem to love it. I like the 45 acp just for the fact you can get ammo for it just about anywhere. </div></div>

Actually, I think that it's an unwritten bylaw of Wal*Mart corporate that each store shall have at least one box of .357 SIG WWB at all times. I never fail to find it, but it is costlier to run than other calibers, for sure.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.357 SIG, but I'd bump it up to a 229. 239 is fine, but I'd do that in 9MM. That said, to confuse you, CDNN is still showing SAO compact beavertail 220s for $589, equipped and not stripped. </div></div>

I havea 229 in 357 Sig as well, usually use it for winter carry or my 226. For the summer I like the slim single stacks. Not a fan of SAO, wish I was as there are a lot of nice 1911's out there. I also prefer the 245 over the 220 compacts but its only minor details. The SAO is a deal breaker though.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

The majority of my combat guns are 357 Sig, I dont have a problem with the ammo. I also have 9mm conversions for all them to make traiing cheaper on the pockets. The only other 45 I have is a Sig 1911.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yakface</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's 2 cents from the new guy. I haven't had any experience with the 357 Sig but those who have seem to love it. I like the 45 acp just for the fact you can get ammo for it just about anywhere. </div></div>

Actually, I think that it's an unwritten bylaw of Wal*Mart corporate that each store shall have at least one box of .357 SIG WWB at all times. I never fail to find it, but it is costlier to run than other calibers, for sure. </div></div>

Fact.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

357sig is an awesome carry cartridge. Practice is expensive, but a 40 barrel totally solves that, I think.

I have a Glock27, and a 33 barrel for it. I practice mainly with 40 but carry with 357. Time and time again, I run it faster and more accurately in 357.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: warpig602</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive found myself at a crossroads again. Ivbe owned both a Sig 239 and 245 before and for one reason or another sold them both. I now have botha gain and im debating which one I want to use for my primary carry piece.
Bothe conceal equally well and close enough in size, especially the grip, that it isnt really a factor. What it comes down to is would you rather have 8+1 of 357 Sig or 6+1 of 45ACP?
Ultimately its just a conversation question as both will work fine. Just curious as to your thoughts.
</div></div>Well, I don't have much experience with the .357 Sig round, but it is really hot. I know it has lost some ground to the .40 S&W in the law enforcement circles, but I read that was primarily because it was a little too fast. Like I said, I don't know for sure because I don't have any experience with the .357 Sig, just what I have read.

I am a big fan of the .45 ACP on the other hand, and have complete confidence in its ability to stop the threat with JHP or Ball. JMHO.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

Frankly, for CCW, if you can't solve a problem with 6+1 45 ACP, then you're in a world of hurt. If it's my money, I'm going 45.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

Like you said, I wouldn't argue with either.

For me, I'd take the .45, as that is what I have chosen to carry with much too many hours thought. And mine is 5+1. I still feel better with it than I do the XDsc 9mm with 13 rounds. With your two sigs, and the round count at 7 or 9...I think I'd call those two numbers equal. If you're expecting a REALLY bad day, bring the AR.

For logic, I'd take the .357 if you had a 9mm conversion, otherwise the .45. This based on cost of ammo and how much you'd shoot .357 sig ammo.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

I have 2 .357 sigs (p239 and p226) and several .45's. Although I love the .357, you do have to ask your question:what is the primary use? For concealed carry, I would assume self-defense. Now for the problem of the .357: if you are in a urban area, instead of out on the open range, don't you have bigger worries about collateral damage with such a hot round? Our Highway Patrol uses .357 sigs, because of penetration into and through vehicle parts. If you take care of Sid Badguy, but little Timmy, playing on a swingset half a block away gets hit, wouldn't the first question asked of you by the atty be, why were you using a supercharged 9mm round in a populated area? just food for thought. Like I said, I love the .357 Sig, but there is a reason that city police departments don't use them and it's not because of the cost of the ammo.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

A 125gr Speer GDHP isn't going to go thru the bad guy, then cruise a half block and hit little Timmy.

Little Timmy might get hit if you miss, but in that case, he'd be hit by the 9mm too.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

I've got them both in larger frame semi's and with that said, I prefer the 8+1 45 vs the 13+1 357 sig. Shootability of the 45, heavy slow bullet, average shootout occurs with 15 feet and around 2.5 shots. Works for me but do what you feel most comfortable with.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

.357 Sig is an excellent caliber and is one of the most reliable feeding handgun calibers. However I found in a very compact weapon that the .357 is harder to shoot than a .45 in the same package. Also the velocity of the .357 sig out of a shorty barrel is comparable to a 9mm +p round out of a full size. Contrary to popular believe the .357 sig should not be considered a over penetration round. Lots of threads about this with FBI testing...etc Also note that the .357 sig is used by the Secret Service and the US air marshals, two agencies that can not risk over penetration rounds.
Also the .357 sig is a super accurate round extremely flat, and easy/accurate to reload with SD of 3-6 fps.

I went through all the research and ended up buying and shooting just about every pistol caliber available. The easiest to shoot with good performance for me is the .40 s&w and that is my daily carrier caliber of choice.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the Sig...........fuck little Timmy and his swingset.






grin........... </div></div>

.45 ACP ... it's for the <span style="font-style: italic">children.</span>

z93509264.jpg
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

I doubt a person getting double tapped from either would know the difference.

(.45 IMHO)
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

Between those two options, I would choose the .45 ACP. Ammunition is relatively inexpensive and readily available. That being said, I would choose the caliber that you shoot most effectively. Shoot both against a timer and run a few drills. Given that both calibers are considered effective, I would pick the round that I had the fastest splits with from the Iso, SHO and WHO. I shot 45 ACP exclusively for about 7 years, but I'm currently transitioning to 9x19. I'll always have a soft spot for the .45, but I run a Glock 19 better against the clock. Honestly, it was difficult for me to sideline my ego, but I am simply more effective with a smaller caliber. YMMV, but I think a hard, pseudo-scientific comparison will answer this one for you.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

I own both but have no real world experience with either, other than against paper.

My best friend's department made a switch from 45 to 357 Sig awhile back, almost ten years ago if I was guessing. They did , in part at least, to lack of penetration with the 45. They had chased a bank robber into a cul-de-sac and then fired into the car after the driver tried to run down one of the officers. Rounds were stopped by things like crash beams in the door. Maybe it was bad shooting, but no hits on the occupants. However, when they were involved in shootings without barriers, the 45 was simply lethal.

Since their induction of the 357 they certainly have not had penetration problems. They got in a similar situation in a Wal Mart parking lot. Two suspects robbed somebody inside the store, with a driver waiting outside. The officers went to stop the driver who responded by flooring the pedal and nearly running over an officer. One 357 Sig round went through the car's a-pillar, through the steel core of the steering wheel rim, and through the driver's forearm. Clean entry, clean exit.

Similar situation when they confronted a carjacker who was then on foot, who began shooting at the officer at first contact. Police returned fire and shot the suspect in the chest, before running him over with a patrol car. Clean entry, clean exit.

They've not killed a single person since changing to 357.

Maybe it's poor performing ammo (meaning, maybe a different 357 round would do much better?), or even bad shot placement, I don't know. I own 4 45's, 2 40's, 1 357, and i think 4 9mm's. I keep a 45 by my nightstand!

If you want to see a video of the last shootout I was talking about google Nicholas Waller.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankly, for CCW, if you can't solve a problem with 6+1 45 ACP, then you're in a world of hurt. If it's my money, I'm going 45. </div></div>Right?!? I usually carry a pocket .380 ACP with one spare magazine, and I hope I never get in a gun fight that requires more than that. If it does, I'll be praying for the cavalry to show up post haste.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longguntoter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankly, for CCW, if you can't solve a problem with 6+1 45 ACP, then you're in a world of hurt. If it's my money, I'm going 45. </div></div>Right?!? I usually carry a pocket .380 ACP with one spare magazine, and I hope I never get in a gun fight that requires more than that. If it does, I'll be praying for the cavalry to show up post haste. </div></div>

I'm glad to know another Hoosier agrees with me (I grew up in SE Indiana). I actually had an old sergeant major in JSOTF-P who swore he only CCW'ed a lightweight S&W revolver with 38 Special +P ammo. Same story, he said if he ever needed more than that, then the fault lay with him.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longguntoter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankly, for CCW, if you can't solve a problem with 6+1 45 ACP, then you're in a world of hurt. If it's my money, I'm going 45. </div></div>Right?!? I usually carry a pocket .380 ACP with one spare magazine, and I hope I never get in a gun fight that requires more than that. If it does, I'll be praying for the cavalry to show up post haste. </div></div>

I'm glad to know another Hoosier agrees with me (I grew up in SE Indiana). I actually had an old sergeant major in JSOTF-P who swore he only CCW'ed a lightweight S&W revolver with 38 Special +P ammo. Same story, he said if he ever needed more than that, then the fault lay with him. </div></div>

It would have been his fault that the other guy had a bottomless wonder-9? Some people err on the side of convenience and comfort. I tend to think that it's okay to carry enough for an exercise in H&I, and claims of paranoia be damned.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

The truth is that with self-defense, each of us has to choose exactly what we think we need. Ultimately, we are the ones that will face the consequences of that choice (to do so or not) and how we approach that choice (19+1 rounds of 9mm vs 6 rounds of 38SPL). As this goes back to the original question, whatever OP decides for himself is the right answer since he is responsible for his own security, just as each one of us is responsible for our own security. To each his own. It's a rare gunfight that occurs where caliber and number of rounds decide the outcome.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the Sig...........fuck little Timmy and his swingset.






grin........... </div></div>
I just have to say thanks for the laugh. I needed that today.

But to be more helpful, i'd say carry the one you shoot more efficiently. As it was said, try timing yourself with both rounds at a given distance at the range. Then measure your groupings.
In terms of ammo availability you'll be able to find more .45 (most likely) at your local stores than the .357sig. But with online sales, availability isn't much of an issue unless you need it fast.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

.45

The .357s performance is overstated by it's fans and in some cases actually penetrates less that some of the better performing 9mm loads (speed does not necessarily equal penetration). Check out Winchester's LE ammo site for their testing. I'm perfectly comfortable with 9mm but if I want something bigger I'll go with the .45.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want to see a video of the last shootout I was talking about google Nicholas Waller.</div></div>
1. Damn.
2. Great thinking to run the guy over! haha
3. It's a good thing that bad guy couldn't hit shit!
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">357sig is an awesome carry cartridge. Practice is expensive, but a 40 barrel totally solves that, I think.

I have a Glock27, and a 33 barrel for it. I practice mainly with 40 but carry with 357. Time and time again, I run it faster and more accurately in 357. </div></div>

Yep, I have 9mm conversion barrels for even cheaper practice. I also reload the 357 so its not too bad.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankly, for CCW, if you can't solve a problem with 6+1 45 ACP, then you're in a world of hurt. If it's my money, I'm going 45. </div></div>

I was mainly pondering the effectiveness of the 2 claibers, to me they seem pretty equal in terms of effectiveness. In which case Id just as soon take the extra 2 rounds. I do like to get differnt perspectives on things though, thats why I posed the question. Truth be told, I'll probably keep both and carry both.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like you said, I wouldn't argue with either.

For me, I'd take the .45, as that is what I have chosen to carry with much too many hours thought. And mine is 5+1. I still feel better with it than I do the XDsc 9mm with 13 rounds. With your two sigs, <span style="color: #FF0000">and the round count at 7 or 9...I think I'd call those two numbers equal. </span> If you're expecting a REALLY bad day, bring the AR.

For logic, I'd take the .357 if you had a 9mm conversion, otherwise the .45. This based on cost of ammo and how much you'd shoot .357 sig ammo. </div></div>

Thanks, that was the main reason for the post.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which do you enjoy shooting more? </div></div>

I enjoy shooting my 9mm's the most! The 239 fits my hanf just hair better so that will probably be the deciding factor. I think it has to do more with the CT grips than the gun itself though. Id run the CT grips even if they didnt have a laser, big fan of them on the 239 for overall feel.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seven_sicks_two</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Between those two options, I would choose the .45 ACP. Ammunition is relatively inexpensive and readily available. That being said, I would choose the caliber that you shoot most effectively. Shoot both against a timer and run a few drills. Given that both calibers are considered effective, I would pick the round that I had the fastest splits with from the Iso, SHO and WHO. I shot 45 ACP exclusively for about 7 years, but I'm currently transitioning to 9x19. I'll always have a soft spot for the .45, but I run a Glock 19 better against the clock. Honestly, it was difficult for me to sideline my ego, but I am simply more effective with a smaller caliber. YMMV, but I think a hard, pseudo-scientific comparison will answer this one for you. </div></div>

This is most likely the route i'll take. Should be able to get to the range next weekend and run them through the paces. Imm actually a big 9mm fan, I wswitched over to 357 Sig about 6 years ago but I wouldnt hesitate to go back to 9mm.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longguntoter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankly, for CCW, if you can't solve a problem with 6+1 45 ACP, then you're in a world of hurt. If it's my money, I'm going 45. </div></div>Right?!? I usually carry a pocket .380 ACP with one spare magazine, and I hope I never get in a gun fight that requires more than that. If it does, I'll be praying for the cavalry to show up post haste. </div></div>

I'm glad to know another Hoosier agrees with me (I grew up in SE Indiana). I actually had an old sergeant major in JSOTF-P who swore he only CCW'ed a lightweight S&W revolver with 38 Special +P ammo. Same story, he said if he ever needed more than that, then the fault lay with him. </div></div>

There are times when I can only carry 5 and im ok with that. However, if I am able to do so, and can do it comfortably, I'll always opt to carry more rounds. Just in case....better to have and not need.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the Sig...........fuck little Timmy and his swingset.






grin........... </div></div>

Collateral damage.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunnut284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.45

The .357s performance is overstated by it's fans and in some cases actually penetrates less that some of the better performing 9mm loads (speed does not necessarily equal penetration).</div></div>

Bingo. It's not some magic laser that zips through vastly more target media than other pistol rounds:

Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Similar situation when they confronted a carjacker who was then on foot, who began shooting at the officer at first contact. Police returned fire and <span style="font-weight: bold">shot the suspect in the chest,</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">before running him over with a patrol car</span>. Clean entry, clean exit.

They've not killed a single person since changing to 357.

Maybe it's poor performing ammo (meaning, maybe a different 357 round would do much better?), or even bad shot placement, I don't know. I own 4 45's, 2 40's, 1 357, and i think 4 9mm's. I keep a 45 by my nightstand!</div></div>

And a .45 would have stopped him? I would argue the police car has the same ballistics. Draw?
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunnut284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.45

The .357s performance is overstated by it's fans and in some cases actually penetrates less that some of the better performing 9mm loads (speed does not necessarily equal penetration).</div></div>

Bingo. It's not some magic laser that zips through vastly more target media than other pistol rounds:

Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg




</div></div>

The picture I'm looking at shows the second smallest round doing the most damage.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G-31</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Similar situation when they confronted a carjacker who was then on foot, who began shooting at the officer at first contact. Police returned fire and <span style="font-weight: bold">shot the suspect in the chest,</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">before running him over with a patrol car</span>. Clean entry, clean exit.

They've not killed a single person since changing to 357.

Maybe it's poor performing ammo (meaning, maybe a different 357 round would do much better?), or even bad shot placement, I don't know. I own 4 45's, 2 40's, 1 357, and i think 4 9mm's. I keep a 45 by my nightstand!</div></div>

And a .45 would have stopped him? <span style="font-weight: bold">I would argue the police car has the same ballistics. Draw?</span> </div></div>

900 fps = 54,000 fpm = 3,240,000 fph ...

If there are 5,280 feet in a mile, and the police car could go 3,240,000 fph, being the ballistic equivalent, we get ...

... 613.64 mph.

Does that take 93 octane, or are you using that good 100 octane racing fuel?
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

.45 ACP vs. Crown Vic, the next caliber war.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G-31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The picture I'm looking at shows the second smallest round doing the most damage. </div></div>

The question at hand was the concern of over-penetration. Despite the velocity advantage of the .357Sig over the ordinary 9x19mm, it does not penetrate substantially further and thus this is a non-issue.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.45 ACP vs. Crown Vic, the next caliber war. </div></div>

Very good.
grin.gif
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G-31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The picture I'm looking at shows the second smallest round doing the most damage. </div></div>

The question at hand was the concern of over-penetration. Despite the velocity advantage of the .357Sig over the ordinary 9x19mm, it does not penetrate substantially further and thus this is a non-issue. </div></div>

I'll take it a step further. Look at the size and the immediacy of the wound channels, both temp and permanent, of the .357 SIG.
 
Re: 45 ACP or 357 Sig

45acp, the sig has too much blast for unprotected ears and I am deaf enough as it is.
 
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