New Sig Sauer MCX SPEAR LT in 5.56 nato

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Sig is now offering a 5.56 version of their MCX SPEAR rifle- they named it the Spear LT:

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT​

Posted 11 hours ago in Editorial, Featured, NFA / Suppressors / Class III, Product Announcement, Rifles, Semi-Auto by Pete with 46 Comments
Tags: 5.56, mcx, MCX Spear, MCX Spear LT, MCX Virtus, Sig Sauer


TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
Small arm designs are introduced in both revolutionary and evolutionary processes, each being equally important to developing a reliable and capable firearm system. For manufacturers, engineering a new gun and its progressive iterations, is a painstaking progression that requires refinement, numerous evaluation cycles, and performance improvements. For the consumer, the excitement of a new system is intertwined with compatibility concerns, the hope for additional features in future releases, and waiting – a cycle that is not unique to the firearm industry. In early 2015, SIG Sauer released the MCX, a revolutionary design in a market awash in direct impingement AR-15 variants. In the years since the initial release, the MCX progressed into the MCX Virtus, arriving at where we are today – the introduction of the SIG MCX SPEAR-LT.
Below: The SPEAR-LT with the SIG SLX556-QD suppressor.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
The MCX SPEAR-LT may not seem overly impressive at first glance, but it is the most advanced update to date, adding features, reducing weight, while remaining completely backwards compatible with all of the MCX Virtus models over the past five years.

SIG MCX @ TFB:​

Today’s gear list:​

Compare and Contrast: The new MCX SPEAR-LT 16” 5.56 carbine (top) and the MCX Virtus 9” 300BLK (bottom).
38C21A76-4802-4E74-BD62-984E17EFC5E6.jpeg

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT​

Alone, a short stroke piston is not exactly a ‘revolutionary design’ – several rifles and carbines have used this system with great success. But SIG refined a series of features around the short stroke piston to develop an advanced rifle that addresses many of the shortcomings displayed in the AR-15 and other weapon systems.
If you own an MCX Virtus, don’t worry. All of the parts are backwards compatible. But for obvious reasons you may not be able to take advantage of all of the new features of the MCX SPEAR-LT should you decide to mix and match.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
The hand guard on the SPEAR-LT is slimmer, lighter, and is securely fastened to the upper receiver with two bolts. Some users were concerned with the possibility of a shift in the point of impact (POI) when using laser devices that were attached to the hand guard on the Virtus systems. Although I tested this several times and my IR laser held a zero even after being completely removed. The lower profile of the SPEAR-LT hand guard does allow for a more secure supporting hand grip.
Using a pushbutton design rather than a pull up and rotate action, the new MCX collapsing stock folds easily out of the way when needed. There is a removable cheek rest for those shooters who don’t like the feel of cold metal on their sensitive skin.

Features:​

  • 13” Lightweight Ergonomic Handguard
  • SIG Flatblade Match Trigger
  • Fully Ambidextrous Controls
  • Interchangeable Barrels
  • Push-Button Folding Stock With Cheekrest
  • SIG QD Suppressor-Ready Flash Hider

Specifications:​

  • SKU: RMCX-556N-16B-LT
  • MAP Pricing: As low as $2499
  • Caliber: 5.56 NATO
  • Frame Material: Aluminum
  • Frame Finish: Coyote Anodized
  • Barrel Material: Cold Hammer Forged Carbon Steel
  • Barrel Finish: Nitride
  • Magazine Capacity: 30 Rounds
  • Sights: Optics Ready
  • Trigger: Flat Blade Match
  • Measurements:
    • Overall Length: 34.3 in / 870mm
    • Overall Height: 7.8 in / 197mm
    • Overall Width: 2.8 in / 71mm
    • Barrel Length: 16 in / 406.4mm
    • Barrel Twist: 1:7 in / 1:177.8mm
    • Weight W/Magazine: 7.4 lb / 3.4 kg

Fully Ambidextrous​

One of the biggest additions to the MCX SPEAR-LT is the right side bolt release, making this rifle completely ambidextrous. This minimalist design was first introduced with the SIG Switchblade M400 AR-15 series and it is both low profile and easy to use. It looks dainty, but it’s not – it is solid and it works.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
Here’s a closer look at the new pushbutton collapsing stock system – just push down and rotate the stock clockwise.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
Below is the left side bolt that secures the hand guard to the upper receiver. To remove the hand guard, unscrew the two bolts, remove the pivot takedown pin, and pull forward.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
Besides the ambidextrous right side bolt release, there are some internal geometry changes in the MCX SPEAR-LT lower receiver (top) compared to the MCX Virtus lower receiver (bottom). If you are mocking my dirty MCX Virtus lower, be advised that the MCX is my favorite carbine and it gets shot a lot.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
A side profile look at the SPEAR-LT (top) and the Virtus (bottom) lower receivers notes that the right side bolt release is really the only difference between the two. Also note that the whole rifle is anodized in coyote FDE whereas the MCX Virtus could have both anodized and Cerakote coated parts from the factory.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
The recoil springs and bolt carrier groups have the same external geometry, which allows everything to remain backwards compatible.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
But one of the new features of the SPEAR-LT is the ability to use any MILSPEC AR-15 trigger. This change requires a redesign in the MCX firing pin lock system. The SPEAR-LT BCG (top) appears to have the firing pin lock on the left side of the bolt directly behind the firing pin (pictured here on the bottom of the firing pin). Where as the Virtus firing pin lock comes down from the top.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
Below: The firing pin lock design (highlighted in yellow) on the MCX Virtus from the MCX Small Parts Shopper (SIG). We will do a full field strip in the coming weeks – I want to get a good number of rounds through this gun as it came from the factory before I do any disassembly.
0C57EC63-1EEC-4FEF-9984-A900BBCBF4B7.jpeg

MCX Virtus Bolt Carrier Group and recoil spring system with the previous firing pin lock design.
After a cursory review of both the SPEAR-LT (top) and the Virtus (bottom) upper receiver groups, I wasn’t able to detect any significant differences.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
At first I bemoaned the 16 inch barrel as the first SPEAR-LT release (yes, I use terms like ‘bemoaned’ and complain about the brand new first production MCX SPEAR-LT as being ‘too long’). But the barrel length does make perfect sense. With pistol stabilizing braces firmly in the crosshairs of ATF regulations and the NFA application process for making or transferring a short barrel rifle (SBR) taking months to complete, a 16″ rifle is the best way to get the SPEAR-LT in as many hands as possible as quickly as possible.
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
Besides, when barrels and hand guards become available, new owners can start the ATF Form 1 process and created their own SBR while still shooting their 16″ gun. MCX barrel swaps can be completed with simple tools, don’t require an armorer like AR-15 barrel changes, and can be completed in as little as two minutes. As a reminder, always read the user manual before operating or disassembling a new firearm to ensure the proper procedures are being followed.
Below: The 9″ MCX Virtus in 300BLK suppressed with the SIG SLX762-QD (top) is about the same length as the unsuppressed 16″ SPEAR-LT in 5.56 (bottom).
TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
As a huge fan of the SIG MCX Virtus, I am extremely pleased to finally witness the evolution of the MCX SPEAR-LT. This rifle drops some weight, adds new features, remains backward compatible, and improves on an already impressive system that is used by military, law enforcement, and civilians around the world. Most importantly, the MCX SPEAR-LT is in production and is available for purchase starting tomorrow.
Pete

Pete

Editor In Chief- TFB
LE – Silencers – Science
[email protected]


 

TacticalDillhole

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    GUNNER10

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    Its nice to see Sig refining the MCX, it looks like its shaping up to be nice little carbine.
     
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    346ci

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    If being a sig won't turn most away, one look at that abomination of a bolt carrier will.
     

    Burdy

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    Sig is now offering a 5.56 version of their MCX SPEAR rifle- they named it the Spear LT:

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT​

    Posted 11 hours ago in Editorial, Featured, NFA / Suppressors / Class III, Product Announcement, Rifles, Semi-Auto by Pete with 46 Comments
    Tags: 5.56, mcx, MCX Spear, MCX Spear LT, MCX Virtus, Sig Sauer


    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    Small arm designs are introduced in both revolutionary and evolutionary processes, each being equally important to developing a reliable and capable firearm system. For manufacturers, engineering a new gun and its progressive iterations, is a painstaking progression that requires refinement, numerous evaluation cycles, and performance improvements. For the consumer, the excitement of a new system is intertwined with compatibility concerns, the hope for additional features in future releases, and waiting – a cycle that is not unique to the firearm industry. In early 2015, SIG Sauer released the MCX, a revolutionary design in a market awash in direct impingement AR-15 variants. In the years since the initial release, the MCX progressed into the MCX Virtus, arriving at where we are today – the introduction of the SIG MCX SPEAR-LT.
    Below: The SPEAR-LT with the SIG SLX556-QD suppressor.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    The MCX SPEAR-LT may not seem overly impressive at first glance, but it is the most advanced update to date, adding features, reducing weight, while remaining completely backwards compatible with all of the MCX Virtus models over the past five years.

    SIG MCX @ TFB:​

    Today’s gear list:​

    Compare and Contrast: The new MCX SPEAR-LT 16” 5.56 carbine (top) and the MCX Virtus 9” 300BLK (bottom).
    38C21A76-4802-4E74-BD62-984E17EFC5E6.jpeg

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT​

    Alone, a short stroke piston is not exactly a ‘revolutionary design’ – several rifles and carbines have used this system with great success. But SIG refined a series of features around the short stroke piston to develop an advanced rifle that addresses many of the shortcomings displayed in the AR-15 and other weapon systems.
    If you own an MCX Virtus, don’t worry. All of the parts are backwards compatible. But for obvious reasons you may not be able to take advantage of all of the new features of the MCX SPEAR-LT should you decide to mix and match.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    The hand guard on the SPEAR-LT is slimmer, lighter, and is securely fastened to the upper receiver with two bolts. Some users were concerned with the possibility of a shift in the point of impact (POI) when using laser devices that were attached to the hand guard on the Virtus systems. Although I tested this several times and my IR laser held a zero even after being completely removed. The lower profile of the SPEAR-LT hand guard does allow for a more secure supporting hand grip.
    Using a pushbutton design rather than a pull up and rotate action, the new MCX collapsing stock folds easily out of the way when needed. There is a removable cheek rest for those shooters who don’t like the feel of cold metal on their sensitive skin.

    Features:​

    • 13” Lightweight Ergonomic Handguard
    • SIG Flatblade Match Trigger
    • Fully Ambidextrous Controls
    • Interchangeable Barrels
    • Push-Button Folding Stock With Cheekrest
    • SIG QD Suppressor-Ready Flash Hider

    Specifications:​

    • SKU: RMCX-556N-16B-LT
    • MAP Pricing: As low as $2499
    • Caliber: 5.56 NATO
    • Frame Material: Aluminum
    • Frame Finish: Coyote Anodized
    • Barrel Material: Cold Hammer Forged Carbon Steel
    • Barrel Finish: Nitride
    • Magazine Capacity: 30 Rounds
    • Sights: Optics Ready
    • Trigger: Flat Blade Match
    • Measurements:
      • Overall Length: 34.3 in / 870mm
      • Overall Height: 7.8 in / 197mm
      • Overall Width: 2.8 in / 71mm
      • Barrel Length: 16 in / 406.4mm
      • Barrel Twist: 1:7 in / 1:177.8mm
      • Weight W/Magazine: 7.4 lb / 3.4 kg

    Fully Ambidextrous​

    One of the biggest additions to the MCX SPEAR-LT is the right side bolt release, making this rifle completely ambidextrous. This minimalist design was first introduced with the SIG Switchblade M400 AR-15 series and it is both low profile and easy to use. It looks dainty, but it’s not – it is solid and it works.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    Here’s a closer look at the new pushbutton collapsing stock system – just push down and rotate the stock clockwise.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    Below is the left side bolt that secures the hand guard to the upper receiver. To remove the hand guard, unscrew the two bolts, remove the pivot takedown pin, and pull forward.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    Besides the ambidextrous right side bolt release, there are some internal geometry changes in the MCX SPEAR-LT lower receiver (top) compared to the MCX Virtus lower receiver (bottom). If you are mocking my dirty MCX Virtus lower, be advised that the MCX is my favorite carbine and it gets shot a lot.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    A side profile look at the SPEAR-LT (top) and the Virtus (bottom) lower receivers notes that the right side bolt release is really the only difference between the two. Also note that the whole rifle is anodized in coyote FDE whereas the MCX Virtus could have both anodized and Cerakote coated parts from the factory.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    The recoil springs and bolt carrier groups have the same external geometry, which allows everything to remain backwards compatible.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    But one of the new features of the SPEAR-LT is the ability to use any MILSPEC AR-15 trigger. This change requires a redesign in the MCX firing pin lock system. The SPEAR-LT BCG (top) appears to have the firing pin lock on the left side of the bolt directly behind the firing pin (pictured here on the bottom of the firing pin). Where as the Virtus firing pin lock comes down from the top.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    Below: The firing pin lock design (highlighted in yellow) on the MCX Virtus from the MCX Small Parts Shopper (SIG). We will do a full field strip in the coming weeks – I want to get a good number of rounds through this gun as it came from the factory before I do any disassembly.
    0C57EC63-1EEC-4FEF-9984-A900BBCBF4B7.jpeg

    MCX Virtus Bolt Carrier Group and recoil spring system with the previous firing pin lock design.
    After a cursory review of both the SPEAR-LT (top) and the Virtus (bottom) upper receiver groups, I wasn’t able to detect any significant differences.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    At first I bemoaned the 16 inch barrel as the first SPEAR-LT release (yes, I use terms like ‘bemoaned’ and complain about the brand new first production MCX SPEAR-LT as being ‘too long’). But the barrel length does make perfect sense. With pistol stabilizing braces firmly in the crosshairs of ATF regulations and the NFA application process for making or transferring a short barrel rifle (SBR) taking months to complete, a 16″ rifle is the best way to get the SPEAR-LT in as many hands as possible as quickly as possible.
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    Besides, when barrels and hand guards become available, new owners can start the ATF Form 1 process and created their own SBR while still shooting their 16″ gun. MCX barrel swaps can be completed with simple tools, don’t require an armorer like AR-15 barrel changes, and can be completed in as little as two minutes. As a reminder, always read the user manual before operating or disassembling a new firearm to ensure the proper procedures are being followed.
    Below: The 9″ MCX Virtus in 300BLK suppressed with the SIG SLX762-QD (top) is about the same length as the unsuppressed 16″ SPEAR-LT in 5.56 (bottom).
    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT

    TFB FIRST LOOK: Introducing the New 5.56 SIG MCX SPEAR-LT
    As a huge fan of the SIG MCX Virtus, I am extremely pleased to finally witness the evolution of the MCX SPEAR-LT. This rifle drops some weight, adds new features, remains backward compatible, and improves on an already impressive system that is used by military, law enforcement, and civilians around the world. Most importantly, the MCX SPEAR-LT is in production and is available for purchase starting tomorrow.
    Pete

    Pete

    Editor In Chief- TFB
    LE – Silencers – Science
    [email protected]


    1.) Can we order the new firing pin lock or 2.) If we cannot, can we just order the entire new bolt assembly and drop in the Virtus for trigger compatibility?
     

    MPDS13

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    I do like that new handguard. Will be a lot nicer than the older ones. Hope that it is compatible with the older uppers.
     

    Burdy

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    I do like that new handguard. Will be a lot nicer than the older ones. Hope that it is compatible with the older uppers.
    Dont see how it could be since there is an additional set screw. Assuming the Spear upper is threaded for that.
     

    MPDS13

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    Dont see how it could be since there is an additional set screw. Assuming the Spear upper is threaded for that.

    Yeah, I figured it wouldn't since it has that new attachment method. maybe someone will offer to modify the older uppers for the set screws.
     

    RKBArmory

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    This looks really nice, and Sig deserves credit for innovating. I'm interested in the cost, availability, and future obsolescence.
     

    ut755ln

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    This looks really nice, and Sig deserves credit for innovating. I'm interested in the cost, availability, and future obsolescence.
    This is not me being sassy. Is it really innovation? I thought the Eugene Stoner came up with this design with the AR 18 more than 50 years ago. I am not really sure hot the Sig is much different than other short stroke piston systems like the HK the USMC uses.
     
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    gxer

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    This is not me being sassy. Is it really innovation? I thought the Eugene Stoner came up with this design with the AR 18 more than 50 years ago. I am not really sure hot the Sig is much different than other short stroke piston systems like the HK the USMC uses.
    SIG did lots of improvements over the original AR180 design, like the firing pin safety and lowered reciprocating mass and so on. They deserve the credit where the credit is due. However, unlike the 6.8 Spear, this one is missing the other half of the equation, the higher pressured cartridges.
     
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    GUNNER10

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    This is not me being sassy. Is it really innovation? I thought the Eugene Stoner came up with this design with the AR 18 more than 50 years ago. I am not really sure hot the Sig is much different than other short stroke piston systems like the HK the USMC uses.

    In fairness, the same could be said about the SR15 and the SP1 and that companies like Knights and LMT are really not innovative. The reality is that the SR15 is outperforms the SP1 in every important metric and it accomplished this, not be coming up with some oddball KRISS vector/GD/Textron NGSW type operating system, but refining ever single component by a few percent and repeating this for 30 years.

    I have been critical of sig for quite some time, BUT... I really think that Sig finally got their shit together, I am not sure I would go as far as to say that the Spear LT is a better 556 than say something from Knights or LMT, but its nice improvement on the gen 1 and 2 MCX and a significant improvement over the original AR18 and both of those were pretty good rifles.

    I think Sig has done a far better job improving the Spear than FN has done with improving the SCAR.

    If... Sig can actually support the spear in the same manner LMT supports their MRP, I think this will bode incredibly well for the platform.
     

    AngryKoala

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    In fairness, the same could be said about the SR15 and the SP1 and that companies like Knights and LMT are really not innovative. The reality is that the SR15 is outperforms the SP1 in every important metric and it accomplished this, not be coming up with some oddball KRISS vector/GD/Textron NGSW type operating system, but refining ever single component by a few percent and repeating this for 30 years.

    I have been critical of sig for quite some time, BUT... I really think that Sig finally got their shit together, I am not sure I would go as far as to say that the Spear LT is a better 556 than say something from Knights or LMT, but its nice improvement on the gen 1 and 2 MCX and a significant improvement over the original AR18 and both of those were pretty good rifles.

    I think Sig has done a far better job improving the Spear than FN has done with improving the SCAR.

    If... Sig can actually support the spear in the same manner LMT supports their MRP, I think this will bode incredibly well for the platform.

    What are you talking about? FN just came out with a NRCH.....innovation everywhere
     

    AngryKoala

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    Have you had hands-on? It feels fucking terrible to manipulate as compared the original SCAR BCG.

    Sorry I was being sarcastic in my other post. I've only shot the reciprocating version, haven't owned one.
     
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    TacticalDillhole

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    Want to bet that in 10 years this will actually be the army's new rifle and not that M5 abomination?
    I don’t think there is anything wrong with the M5 per se but I just don’t see how fewer rounds more weight = better. Not to mention it’s kind of a niche caliber and bullet. Maybe replaces the scars or something but I agree I don’t see it becoming the primary issued rifle.
     

    MK20

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    I don’t think there is anything wrong with the M5 per se but I just don’t see how fewer rounds more weight = better. Not to mention it’s kind of a niche caliber and bullet. Maybe replaces the scars or something but I agree I don’t see it becoming the primary issued rifle.

    When you want to hump that rifle with a LA-5, optic, light, plus heavy ass mags, I just don't see it. A combat load right now is usually 210 rounds but I have carried and have known assaulters who have carried 300 rounds on a mission.
    Let's call it a 200 round load out. That is basically strapping 10 scar 17 mags on. That is a lot of weight.

    They say all that tech like laser, light, etc will be unitized in the scope. When that actually proves out well in the field, I'll believe it.
     
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    TacticalDillhole

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    When you want to hump that rifle with a LA-5, optic, light, plus heavy ass mags, I just don't see it. A combat load right now is usually 210 rounds but I have carried and have known assaulters who have carried 300 rounds on a mission.
    Let's call it a 200 round load out. That is basically strapping 10 scar 17 mags on. That is a lot of weight.

    They say all that tech like laser, light, etc will be unitized in the scope. When that actually proves out well in the field, I'll believe it.
    I said the same thing about the load out in the thread about the M5.
     

    GUNNER10

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    Sorry I was being sarcastic in my other post. I've only shot the reciprocating version, haven't owned one.
    Too funny..

    Thats exactly the point, I think we can all agree that the scar is a solid rifle BUT, its the Scar has been out for almost a dozen years now and outside of a update to the charging handle its still pretty much the same thing that shipped day one. Short 2009 style hand guards, an odd looking stock with a questionable hinge assembly, that each gun is at least 3 shades of FDE, Terrible triggers. The 17's suppressed setting can grenade its carrier if the wrong can is used. The 17 for some reason doesn't even have the popper shoulder to run most mounts without a collar.

    Can these things be addressed via the aftermarket, sure but FN is one of the premier arms manufactures on the planet and I just would expect more from them. I've said this before but my SR25 feels more like a 5000 dollar rifle than my Scar felt like a 3000 dollar rifle. The Scar Feels it should have the same price point as the Beretta ARX

    Since the Scar launched, FN released the semi auto Saw, expanded there AR15 and handgun lineup as well as modernized their 5.7, What have they done with the Scar, well the updated the charging handle and gave an option of a mult-cam finish, but left the grip and stock unfinished.
     
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    GUNNER10

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    When you want to hump that rifle with a LA-5, optic, light, plus heavy ass mags, I just don't see it. A combat load right now is usually 210 rounds but I have carried and have known assaulters who have carried 300 rounds on a mission.
    Let's call it a 200 round load out. That is basically strapping 10 scar 17 mags on. That is a lot of weight.

    They say all that tech like laser, light, etc will be unitized in the scope. When that actually proves out well in the field, I'll believe it.

    I would agree that is the conventional thinking on the subject but I wonder how this will play out down the road, especially as drones on the battlefield become more available to at the squad and fire team levels. Do we really need 210 rounds if you can call over to the weapons section and have a 60mm dropped on somebodies head. Its something interesting to think about. I mean the dudes the got OBL rolled with like 90 rounds.

    Non the less, I do however agree its a heavy set up. and thing the force would benefit from a slicker set up
     

    TacticalPlinker

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    IMO- M5 will be considered to transition to the Squad DMR role to take advantage of the increased MER . This new SPEAR Lite will support staying with a 5.56 for replacing the M4.

    We also need IMO a 77gr AP round in the 3000 fps range to compliment the SPEAR LT
     
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    AngryKoala

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    Too funny..

    Thats exactly the point, I think we can all agree that the scar is a solid rifle BUT, its the Scar has been out for almost a dozen years now and outside of a update to the charging handle its still pretty much the same thing that shipped day one. Short 2009 style hand guards, an odd looking stock with a questionable hinge assembly, that each gun is at least 3 shades of FDE, Terrible triggers. The 17's suppressed setting can grenade its carrier if the wrong can is used. The 17 for some reason doesn't even have the popper shoulder to run most mounts without a collar.

    Can these things be addressed via the aftermarket, sure but FN is one of the premier arms manufactures on the planet and I just would expect more from them. I've said this before but my SR25 feels more like a 5000 dollar rifle than my Scar felt like a 3000 dollar rifle. The Scar Feels it should have the same price point as the Beretta ARX

    Since the Scar launched, FN released the semi auto Saw, expanded there AR15 and handgun lineup as well as modernized their 5.7, What have they done with the Scar, well the updated the charging handle and gave an option of a mult-cam finish, but left the grip and stock unfinished.

    They did increase their price on the Scar so they didn't totally ignore it.
     

    RUTGERS95

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    IMO- M5 will be considered to transition to the Squad DMR role to take advantage of the increased MER . This new SPEAR Lite will support staying with a 5.56 for replacing the M4.

    We also need IMO a 77gr AP round in the 3000 fps range to compliment the SPEAR LT
    agree
     

    Lightning8

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    My impression with SIG is they label "innovation" on things they did not get right the first time. I see the unlimited variants of the P320 and wonder when the seasonal "pumpkin spice" version will be released
     

    TacticalDillhole

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    My impression with SIG is they label "innovation" on things they did not get right the first time. I see the unlimited variants of the P320 and wonder when the seasonal "pumpkin spice" version will be released
    I think we can all agree those are all just buzz words anyway. Reality is we’ve kind of hit peak innovation in current guns. nothing is really innovative or new in small arms anymore. Just new twists on old ideas with some improvements. Just one man’s opinion though. I think reliable switch barrel rifles is about peak innovation for the last 10 years.
     

    RUTGERS95

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    My impression with SIG is they label "innovation" on things they did not get right the first time. I see the unlimited variants of the P320 and wonder when the seasonal "pumpkin spice" version will be released
    ha good one, I may use that!

    off cuff, I have the 320 and it's fantastic, not czp-01 fantastic but eats everything and fits nicely in my hand. Pretty accurate as well
     

    ToddM

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    My impression with SIG is they label "innovation" on things they did not get right the first time. I see the unlimited variants of the P320 and wonder when the seasonal "pumpkin spice" version will be released
    Yep, that's Sig in a nutshell. Normally the second time around isn't right either. At that point there usually isn't a third point, or they changed the design so much on the third attempt you're beta testing again. Their parts prices are ridiculous, $550 for a MPX/MCX stripped upper, $700 for a 9mm MPX or 223 MCX barrel, $650 for a carrier/bolt, $350 for a MCX recoil spring assembly, $300 for an MCX bolt carrier (no bolt). Basically more expensive than any custom aftermarket, JP etc. parts for AR's but with no where near the performance, fit, or finish.

    Their marketing is to be commended but that's where any praise of Sig should stop. The same guy that turned Sig's focus into tons of flavors of the same gun did it for Kimber prior. Unfortunately just like Kimber, Sig's quality has also tanked but unlike Kimber, people seem willing to keep buying Sig guns. As long as people keep buying the hype, beta testing their products for them, and paying their prices, you can't blame Sig for laughing all the way to the bank. The Legion idea was genius, selling tickets to alpha male wanna be's into an "elite" club. Holding back features and variants to get some people to buy in first then buy other iterations later is also genius, but to be fair plenty of companies do that. Making them obsolete is also genius, guys just buy the new version. How many guys are still shooting their first Scar 16/17 they probably didn't pay $3000 for 10 years ago. Meanwhile in just 5 years how many Sig Fan boys have spend $2k on a Legacy MCX, $2500 on a Virtus, and now can't wait to spend another $2500+ on a Spear.

    It seems like Sig has pretty good customer service, however they get a lot of practice, and that should draw the same criticism that Vortex's warranty does. The only real annoying part I've had with Sig's customer service is often they either don't have parts, or refuse to sell parts with the excuse they are using them for gun builds, and recently they seem to make you return the gun for basically any issue where other manufacturers will just send you a replacement part. Break an ejector for an MPX, gotta send it in, break a firing pin, gotta send the gun in.

    Sig is a love/hate now, we all love to see the new products and innovation, but almost everything they release has major problems. MCX did, MPX did, 716/516 did, 365 did, 320 did, Cross did, P210 did, BDX scopes did, I can't think of a single gun they've released in the last 5+ years that has not been a shit show on some level.
     

    Milf Dots

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    It's always fun watching the Karens, the Debby Downers, the Negative Nancys, be triggered by envy! :ROFLMAO:
     
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    Riverlife87

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    Not a sig guy, but with this being the 3rd gen of the mcx id hope its ready
     

    Burdy

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    Not a sig guy, but with this being the 3rd gen of the mcx id hope its ready
    What's wrong with the Virtus? Virtually nothing. This is Gen 3 because they made it lighter and added ambi and other features. This isnt Gen 3 because Gen 2 sucked. On the contrary Gen 2 MCXs have proven to be absolute workhorses and that is reflected in their current resale price in the market.
     

    Riverlife87

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    What's wrong with the Virtus? Virtually nothing. This is Gen 3 because they made it lighter and added ambi and other features. This isnt Gen 3 because Gen 2 sucked. On the contrary Gen 2 MCXs have proven to be absolute workhorses and that is reflected in their current resale price in the market.
    Literally I know nothing about any of them. I was just commenting to previous comments that i would think this thing would be good 2 go. No reason for it not be. But…. I did pre order one. This will be my first sig
     
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    Burdy

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    Literally I know nothing about any of them. I was just commenting to previous comments that i would think this thing would be good 2 go. No reason for it not be. But…. I did pre order one. This will be my first sig
    Gotcha. I'm sure you will like it. I put mine together recently to be a truck/bag gun and I love it. 6.75" .300 BLK. It likes 150g Federal Fusion a lot. It's 21" when folded.
    PXL_20220917_143057698.jpg
     
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    Riverlife87

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    Yea ive always had scars or just plain DI guns. Kicked around getting the 300 BO mcx but when this was anounced decided to get another 5.56. Lets hope it actually comes in.
     

    GUNNER10

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    Yep, that's Sig in a nutshell. Normally the second time around isn't right either. At that point there usually isn't a third point, or they changed the design so much on the third attempt you're beta testing again. Their parts prices are ridiculous, $550 for a MPX/MCX stripped upper, $700 for a 9mm MPX or 223 MCX barrel, $650 for a carrier/bolt, $350 for a MCX recoil spring assembly, $300 for an MCX bolt carrier (no bolt). Basically more expensive than any custom aftermarket, JP etc. parts for AR's but with no where near the performance, fit, or finish.

    Their marketing is to be commended but that's where any praise of Sig should stop. The same guy that turned Sig's focus into tons of flavors of the same gun did it for Kimber prior. Unfortunately just like Kimber, Sig's quality has also tanked but unlike Kimber, people seem willing to keep buying Sig guns. As long as people keep buying the hype, beta testing their products for them, and paying their prices, you can't blame Sig for laughing all the way to the bank. The Legion idea was genius, selling tickets to alpha male wanna be's into an "elite" club. Holding back features and variants to get some people to buy in first then buy other iterations later is also genius, but to be fair plenty of companies do that. Making them obsolete is also genius, guys just buy the new version. How many guys are still shooting their first Scar 16/17 they probably didn't pay $3000 for 10 years ago. Meanwhile in just 5 years how many Sig Fan boys have spend $2k on a Legacy MCX, $2500 on a Virtus, and now can't wait to spend another $2500+ on a Spear.

    It seems like Sig has pretty good customer service, however they get a lot of practice, and that should draw the same criticism that Vortex's warranty does. The only real annoying part I've had with Sig's customer service is often they either don't have parts, or refuse to sell parts with the excuse they are using them for gun builds, and recently they seem to make you return the gun for basically any issue where other manufacturers will just send you a replacement part. Break an ejector for an MPX, gotta send it in, break a firing pin, gotta send the gun in.

    Sig is a love/hate now, we all love to see the new products and innovation, but almost everything they release has major problems. MCX did, MPX did, 716/516 did, 365 did, 320 did, Cross did, P210 did, BDX scopes did, I can't think of a single gun they've released in the last 5+ years that has not been a shit show on some level.

    I really don't think the pricing on the MCX is really out of line. While there are always going to be bargain basement options like PSA, options from somebody like BCM are pushing 1500, Giselle's are pushing 2000 and thats for a rifle with a whole support industry around it. Anything from KAC,LMT,HK, LWRC, ect are going to have a starting point of 2500.


    While I think many of your critics are valid, I think these could really be levied against modern manufacturing in modern corporations. Ford, GM Chrysler pretty much all have the same buisness model and something that a consumer should be aware of.

    Can this all be avoided, sure, one could buy a late model, last generation toyota 4runner and carry a glock 19, and not have these issues, but that doesn't mean, i need three 4runners and a dozen glock 19's. its ok to mess around with different stuff.

    Despite the shit show that has been know as sig for the past decade, I think that the MCX/Spear is better rifle today, than it was 5 years ago. I think the same thing can be applied to the P320.

    Would I suggest the new MCX as somebodies only rifle, no, but if somebody has a safe full of LMT and KAC's sure, why not.
     

    ToddM

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    All good points, and for the MCX I'd agree the price for the whole gun isn't too out of line, it's parts prices that kill you with Sig, or say you want a second upper. Sig pushes the modularity of the MPX/MCX but actually engaging it comes with a massive price tag on par with the most expensive custom options (which I guess also falls into genius marketing as long as people keep paying the prices). I don't believe SIG quality is at LMT levels but the pricing is basically the same for various MARS-L offerings. However once you get into parts Sig must think they are Ferrari.

    $700 for a 223 16" SIG factory barrel, CLE will spin you up almost any Bartlein barrel you want for an AR for less than that, you can buy a JP for under $500 with a matched bolt.
    $550 for a stripped upper, JP will sell you a small frame forged machined matched lower/upper matched set for under $400.
    $1800 for an upper, you could buy an LMT MRP upper, fill it with JP parts, barrel etc. and still probably not spend $1800.

    Sig's prices have increased faster than any other gun manufacturer I can think of but I've seen nothing that suggests their quality has increased. Less than 4 years ago I setup a Legacy MCX "kit" bought a 11" braced MCX for $1500, sig was not selling uppers so I picked up a hybrid MCX 16" (standard AR lower with adapter) for $1000, and then picked up a 300blk barrel with bolt for $400. So 2 uppers, 2 lowers, and 3 barrels $2900. It hasn't been a bad rifle, in fact I like it more than the Virtus as it's a lighter package, but it's also nothing amazing, AR reliable but not bulletproof, good accuracy but nothing impressive.

    If you fast forward to do that today:

    $2500 for the MCX
    $1800 for an upper assembly
    $700 for a 300 barrel

    So what was $2900 4 years ago, is now $5k+, and you're still short a full lower assembly. I can't think of any other gun that's almost doubled in price in less than 4 years that's general production. Except probably the MPX. To me it's not even about the $, I just don't think Sig's quality and performance justifies their pricing. I don't feel SIGs quality is close to JP/Bartlein etc. but their prices are even higher.

    Sig also tends to lock you into proprietary parts, again genius marketing. MPX's and MCX's you can't use standard AR triggers, the MPX bolt speed is so violent it destroys triggers, and the MCX needs it's own version as well. The MPX is so hard on triggers Gieselle tried for 2 years to make a trigger durable enough, after 2 years their only solution was to change recoil springs with the trigger to 30-55% stronger than stock. Another example of a gun Sig completely screwed up the recoil system on (P320 X-fives and P210's had issues here as well). Sure this new version addresses that, finally, but at Sig's prices, anyone with a MCX that wants to do the bolt upgrade is going to drop $800 doing it. Many of their handguns with optics cuts are locked into their optics pattern only. Almost everyone else either uses a plate system or their slides are setup for multiple options.
     
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    Milf Dots

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    Sig just keeps winning! p220, p226, p228, p229, p320, p365, MCX models, SWORD models... They're driving innovation and everyone else is in chase mode! Sig sold a million p365s in a shorter period of time than Glock sold g43s- that Glock unofficial record was a million g43s in three years.

    I greatly dislike Ron Cohen but love that he's taken Sig from a limited product line of pistols and the edge of bankruptcy, to a highly successful defense manufacturer.
     
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    GUNNER10

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    All good points, and for the MCX I'd agree the price for the whole gun isn't too out of line, it's parts prices that kill you with Sig, or say you want a second upper. Sig pushes the modularity of the MPX/MCX but actually engaging it comes with a massive price tag on par with the most expensive custom options (which I guess also falls into genius marketing as long as people keep paying the prices). I don't believe SIG quality is at LMT levels but the pricing is basically the same for various MARS-L offerings. However once you get into parts Sig must think they are Ferrari.

    $700 for a 223 16" SIG factory barrel, CLE will spin you up almost any Bartlein barrel you want for an AR for less than that, you can buy a JP for under $500 with a matched bolt.
    $550 for a stripped upper, JP will sell you a small frame forged machined matched lower/upper matched set for under $400.
    $1800 for an upper, you could buy an LMT MRP upper, fill it with JP parts, barrel etc. and still probably not spend $1800.

    Sig's prices have increased faster than any other gun manufacturer I can think of but I've seen nothing that suggests their quality has increased. Less than 4 years ago I setup a Legacy MCX "kit" bought a 11" braced MCX for $1500, sig was not selling uppers so I picked up a hybrid MCX 16" (standard AR lower with adapter) for $1000, and then picked up a 300blk barrel with bolt for $400. So 2 uppers, 2 lowers, and 3 barrels $2900. It hasn't been a bad rifle, in fact I like it more than the Virtus as it's a lighter package, but it's also nothing amazing, AR reliable but not bulletproof, good accuracy but nothing impressive.

    If you fast forward to do that today:

    $2500 for the MCX
    $1800 for an upper assembly
    $700 for a 300 barrel

    So what was $2900 4 years ago, is now $5k+, and you're still short a full lower assembly. I can't think of any other gun that's almost doubled in price in less than 4 years that's general production. Except probably the MPX. To me it's not even about the $, I just don't think Sig's quality and performance justifies their pricing. I don't feel SIGs quality is close to JP/Bartlein etc. but their prices are even higher.

    Sig also tends to lock you into proprietary parts, again genius marketing. MPX's and MCX's you can't use standard AR triggers, the MPX bolt speed is so violent it destroys triggers, and the MCX needs it's own version as well. The MPX is so hard on triggers Gieselle tried for 2 years to make a trigger durable enough, after 2 years their only solution was to change recoil springs with the trigger to 30-55% stronger than stock. Another example of a gun Sig completely screwed up the recoil system on (P320 X-fives and P210's had issues here as well). Sure this new version addresses that, finally, but at Sig's prices, anyone with a MCX that wants to do the bolt upgrade is going to drop $800 doing it. Many of their handguns with optics cuts are locked into their optics pattern only. Almost everyone else either uses a plate system or their slides are setup for multiple options.
    Im not sure man...

    I think one has to compare similar parts, Take barrels for example, whats the closest barrel to a sig mcx barrel, well that would be the Scar barrel assembly those are around 1450 bucks, then maybe you can say LMT piston barrels are pretty close and those are 750ish. So really 700 really doesn't seem like crazytown

    Uppers are same thing

    Giesele URG-I's are 1350
    LMT's are 2000
    KAC's are 2100
    Noveske's are 1700

    So 1800 really doesn't feel out of line.

    I can't disagree on price increases but its pretty much the same story across the board, Prior to the china virus, i picked up a scar 17 for I think 3200, and today, with no updates that same rifle is around 4200, and the barrel assemblies went from 1000 to 1650. Has it hit Sig more than other firms maybe, but they have a proprietary design that they have to pretty much do everything in house for. Hell look at the price of an Accuracy international rifle when they went from AXMC to the AXSR The value menu isn't quite a value anymore.

    I don't think that anybody can deny that sig has had a fairly high rate of design flaws but I think that those issues are slowly working there way out, to the point that most of there line up seems like solid weapons. Do I think that Sig makes the end all be all of 556 rifles, no, not even close, but, I have to give credit to sig for submitted their weapons for DoD testing. They are taking what they learned in testing and refining their lineup and that I can get behind that.

    As much as I like where the MCX is at and were its going, I would not see it replacing any of my LMT's in any role outside of a little 300PDW
     
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    ToddM

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    Very true, but from what I've seen Sig quality and reliability of various MCX's isn't at the level of any of those other options. Perhaps this third generation will get them there.
     
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    Milf Dots

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    It's cool to know Sig Sauer has risen to the third largest gun maker in America- only Ruger and S&W are bigger. Of course Sig has better QA and QC than they do. Ruger and S&W also have noticeably more recalled firearms than Sig. And of those three, only Sig has .mil contracts.

    So much winning!