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Death grip on AR???

Captain Moroni

Well armed easily annoyed
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 20, 2007
1,324
4
45
Pocatello ID
www.highdeserttactical.us
Any ideas on why I have to have a death grip pulling the rifle back into my shoulder w/a heavy load on the bipod in order to get any consistency out of the rifle? Its pretty drastic from 1/2" or so to 1 1/2" five shot groups. Is there something I can change either on the rifle or me to get it to shoot with out getting cramps in my hand and forearm. Any bets on either Chiller or VJJ tells me to go to the gym or change hands?

If need be I can post up some picks of the rifle and groups in the morning.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

In my experience large frame AR's require a firmer hold, but not a "death grip" if you are gripping it that hard you will start to add muscle tremors to the mix.

Without actually seeing you shoot, that is about all I can add.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

Do you have the same problems off of sand? Is this from a bench or prone? What is the medium under the bipod? Bipods tend to be harder to shoot accurately as the rigid legs tend to bounce the gun around- especially if the support under the bipod is unyielding like a concrete bench. Because a gas gun starts cycling the action before the bullet leaves the barrel, you need more control of the gun. But, because the bipod legs amplify movement of the gun, they are working against you. Try removing the bipod and shoot from sand bags. Then, if you are shooting from a bench with a hard surface (concrete or wood), try shooting with the bipod sitting on top of sand bags (this will help to dampen the legs). Also, if you use a rear bag, your groups should tighten up. If you have a rear monopod, I would also suggest replacing/augmenting it with sand bags.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

Onward Mormon solders marching off to war...Is it to light?
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

Your trigger finger will drive it around if you aren't careful. Your deth grip might be the only way you can be consistent? Don't know. When I shoot off of a bipod I hold hard, but it's comfortable to me. Nothing is death griped. Pull in, and my cheek sunk in, head/ neck relaxed, body position correct behind gun.

If nothing else have someone else shot it? It's worked for me a few times.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

No death grip here, but I do tend to pull it in a bit more than I usually do with other rifles. When I do it this way the rifle is much more consistent. It seems to stay on target much better too.

Think firm, not death.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

I load the bipod and shoot with an open palm method when in the prone.... unsupported shots require a snug grip but never a death grip (muscle fatigue will only catch up and cause more issues).
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

I am shooting prone with an Atlas bipod on concrete and a rear bag. I will try putting a sand bag under the front and see what that does. The gun doesn't move hardly at all its an 18" rifle length with a JP gas block turned almost all the way off and a JP silent spring that is pretty stiff compared to a standard spring. I will go back to the drawing board on this and see what I come up with.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

Are you pulling through all three recoil impulses? Are you doing the same when you slowly squeeze back through the trigger. Larger
AR's, in my experience, take a lot more practice to master than bolt rifles. There are some videos here in the training section that you might benefit from. I did.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Is there something I can change either on the rifle or me to get it to shoot with out getting cramps in my hand and forearm.</div></div>

Yeah, toss the bipod and learn to use a sling. ARs require a firm but not death grip. If a sling position isn't "steady' enough for you add a ruck. Meaning use the ruck to steady your slung up support arm.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your trigger finger will drive it around if you aren't careful. Your deth grip might be the only way you can be consistent? Don't know. When I shoot off of a bipod I hold hard, but it's comfortable to me. Nothing is death griped. Pull in, and my cheek sunk in, head/ neck relaxed, body position correct behind gun.

If nothing else have someone else shot it? It's worked for me a few times. </div></div>

+1

Not an experienced shooter but I used to think I needed a really firm hold on the rifle but actually that was just the only way I was putting the same amount of pressure in the same spots on the rifle. When I focused on contacting the rifle in the same spots with my body with the same amount of force shot to shot. Shot to Shot repeatability really improved for me after that, I don't know if you are already doing this, just thought I'd throw it out there since it helped me.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

You're loading the bipod by leaning into the rifle? as you extend your body flat along the ground the final bit as your shoulder approaches applies forward pressure to the buttstock? Body's pretty much enitrely in contact with the ground? Will the rifle stay put in your shoulder with nothing under it when you take your hand away? No offense, just checking. If so then there is no reason to to be pulling it into the shoulder at all. Relax your grip, make sure to only squeeze with your trigger finger, not your whole hand, its a common problem, an already tight grip would mitigate its influence, already extremely tense muscles could also possibly prevent or lessen a flinch. I used to hold mine tight, now I use just enough pressure to keep my hand from falling off the grip, accuracy improved slightly when I learned to relax, shooting became more pleasant. I don't buy all the squeeze thru the recoil stuff, the bullet's already gone, its just mental clutter, unless of course it helps you to focus. Don't overwhelm yourself worrying over doing things how everyone says is right, expecially anything that happens after the bullet's left the bore, get comfortable behind the gun in a manner that gives a stable, repeatable, sight picture/cheekweld, and trigger finger orientation, everything should feel and look the same everytime, and you should be able to remain in position for a good amount of time without fatigue. Focus on pull let the rifle recoil, and it should come to rest in virtually the same spot as it was before you fired.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

Craig, its not a High Power rifle. Would you drive a rock crawler the same way you would drive a Corvette?

Beef, The bullet is still in the bore when things start moving. Obviously there is a reason to pull it into your shoulder because it shoots much better when I do. I have other AR's that shoot fine with a light grip/light shoulder pressure, this one is different. If you haven't signed up for the online training you should look into it, it will open your eyes. Jacob and Frank would not be where they are today if they didn't know their shit.

Here is a picture of a five shot group with four shots with the stock pulled tight into my shoulder and one with just the bipod loaded. This is the norm for this rifle. The second picture is a five shot group with just the bipod loaded with out pulling the rifle into my shoulder. I guess I can live with it.
2012-08-21_09-14-18_626.jpg


2012-08-21_09-20-35_510.jpg
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

I would laugh if Chiller told you to go to the gym. LOL

As far as your death grip, just be consistent every time you shoot. i hold it tight, similiar to a firm handshake.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

Not sure what grip your currently running, but maybe try playing around with various ar grips. Something with a larger palm swell might help dial in the consistency on your grip and your trigger pull without having to over-muscle your hold.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would laugh if Chiller told you to go to the gym. LOL

As far as your death grip, just be consistent every time you shoot. i hold it tight, similiar to a firm handshake. </div></div>

he is a little girly man.....
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

Are you pulling back with the trigger hand? What is your other hand doing if so?
I was taught to use the non dominant hand to pull the rifle back into my shoulder while manipulating the rear bag. This way my trigger hand is relaxed. Keep the pressure on the stock and the trigger pulled back until the recoil pulses have stopped. You should hear the trigger click when you release.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Moroni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any ideas on why I have to have a death grip pulling the rifle back into my shoulder w/a heavy load on the bipod in order to get any consistency out of the rifle? Its pretty drastic from 1/2" or so to 1 1/2" five shot groups. Is there something I can change either on the rifle or me to get it to shoot with out getting cramps in my hand and forearm. Any bets on either Chiller or VJJ tells me to go to the gym or change hands?

If need be I can post up some picks of the rifle and groups in the morning. </div></div>


I am not an AR driver and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

That being said, is there any logic to driving it similar to a AI? That is to say, not wraping your thumb around the grip and possibly having a sympathetic squeeze as you fire?
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Moroni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any ideas on why I have to have a death grip pulling the rifle back into my shoulder w/a heavy load on the bipod in order to get any consistency out of the rifle? Its pretty drastic from 1/2" or so to 1 1/2" five shot groups. Is there something I can change either on the rifle or me to get it to shoot with out getting cramps in my hand and forearm. Any bets on either Chiller or VJJ tells me to go to the gym or change hands?

If need be I can post up some picks of the rifle and groups in the morning. </div></div>


I am not an AR driver and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

That being said, is there any logic to driving it similar to a AI? That is to say, not wraping your thumb around the grip and possibly having a sympathetic squeeze as you fire?
</div></div>

This is the method that I employ from the prone position.... and it works for me.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Moroni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I should have though of using the non firing hand to pull it into my shoulder but I do ride the short bus quite frequently. I'll give that a try and see where it gets me. </div></div>


Sean Little taught me that while in a class of his. It has dramatically helped my groups shrink.
 
Re: Death grip on AR???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Craig, its not a High Power rifle. Would you drive a rock crawler the same way you would drive a Corvette?</div></div>

There is no law that says the sling has to only be used in High Power.

I use them in my sniper schools, hunting, 3-gun or any other rifle shooting I do where a sling is allowed.

With a tad bit of practice the 1907 style sling can be quite fast. You can put them on while dropping into position in hunting.

If you need or want a bit more support, rest your support arm on the ruck or something.

Suckers dern near got me killed one time. Besides when someone is shooting back at you, you have a tendency to shoot high with a bipod cause you tend to want to get lower to the ground hiding behind the gun.