oal for .308

[turret]

a friend loaded up some 168gr sierra match kings over varrying charges of varget today, and they came out at ~2.71 coal. is this too short? should they be pulled and re-loaded? he realized that his dies were set for a longer balistic tipped bullet.

these were supposed to be for my rifle, but i want to make sure they are safe to shoot.

thanks

 

[turret]

Re: oal for .308

any ideas? is this too much below the 2.80" standard?

 

[Helmet]

Re: oal for .308

Sorry, was thinking thousandths

. If you have a bullet puller inertia hammer you could tap the bullet out a little and reseat it to the desired length without taking it apart.

 

[roggom]

Re: oal for .308

Here is the deal, you may get away with shooting them and nothing happening, but the correct answer is do not shoot them. The issue is (1) you are increasing pressure by seating them too far. (2) the standard is there for a reason (3) since he loaded them up in various charges, it sounds like you are doing work-ups. If you do find a load that shoots a one hole, it will be a waste of time because you should not load shorter than 2.800 anyway.

Your friend should know better, he should have measured COAL after he seated the first bullet. I have a RCBS Comp die, with a mic on top, and I still check mine. It is good practice. Anything else is half-ass. This is based on the fact that he is loading for someone else. If you decide to load and want to play with the numbers then thats up to you. I just do not see the point. There are at least three accuracy nodes from min charge to max charge from 2.800 to kissing the lands. Unless you are making some sort of heavy whisper round, there is no reason to seat so far.

Pull em and start over.

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: oal for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turret</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a friend loaded up some 168gr sierra match kings over varrying charges of varget today, and they came out at ~2.71 coal. is this too short? should they be pulled and re-loaded? he realized that his dies were set for a longer balistic tipped bullet.

these were supposed to be for my rifle, but i want to make sure they are safe to shoot.

thanks </div></div>

Not trying to be a jerk but that is an error that should not have happened. Make sure you know exactly how much powder is in each case that it is within spec. Your rifle, your face, his load...not the best way forward.

 

[jagged77]

Re: oal for .308

If your friend can't get the COAL correct (and not correct it after realising a mistake had been made) then what's to say the powder charge is correct, the sizings been done right, correct primers.... You can correct OAL with an inertia hammer as stated above but I'd be reluctant to use these just in case something else has been done wrong. Up to you though!!

 

[skep_tic1]

Re: oal for .308

WAIT, I get it........
This is a trick question isn't it. If not than it must be some kind of joke.
I agree with EVERYONE else that has responded to this thread.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: oal for .308

Can't undo this error short of pulling the bullets out, at least partially. But one can be more careful by measuring the first round and subsequent rounds until the OAL is correct. (start long, it's easier)

I keep a Forster Collet bullet puller handy with the proper collet. Having added the Hornady LNL quick change adapter system to my Rock Chucker it's merely a matter of quickly pulling my seater die, installing the collet puller, pulling the bullet about half way out, re installing the seater die, and reseating the bullet.

With the quick change adapters it's really no big deal to solve a small oversight. I use a Washer between bottom of die and shell holder so my seating die acts like a "Dead Length Seater". This gives me crazy accurate OAL's when measured case head to ogive. Sometimes I forget to place the washer around the case while seating and end up with a short cartridge. 2 seconds to remove the seater, 2 seconds to insert the collet puller, 5-10 seconds to lengthen the cartridge, and 4 seconds or so to be back seating the next bullets. Short of doing it right the first time there isn't a much faster way to fix the results of a "brain fart" like I described.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: oal for .308

Be safe and dont use them. All the previous replies are legit. I really question powder, powder charge, primer, max trim length, etc. Better to stay safe than sorry. 2.800 is very hard to improve on for 168 SMKs

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: oal for .308

<span style="font-style: italic">"any ideas? is this too much below the 2.80" standard?"</span>

Yeah, I have an idea; there is no "standard" length other than the obvious limitations of the magazine box which is about 2.820" for most .308s.

Listed book OALs are what the guys who provided the listed data used in their rifle. Their's isn't yours so there's no more reason to slavishly follow their OAL than there is to slavishly follow their powder suggestions as if it's all gospel truth. In fact, the whole idea behind handloading (as opposed to mechanically following a book <span style="font-style: italic">reloading</span>) is to make ammo that works best in our own guns; if we're going to limit ourselves to specifically what some book says we may as well use factory ammo.

Rifles are not small case, high pressure handguns using very fast burning powders so the seating rules are different. Seating deeper in rifles (within reason, maybe 1/4" in medium size cases) will give bullets a longer jump before hitting the lands and that actually lowers peak pressure (for a given load) while seating longer/closer to the lands raises the peak pressure.

Shoot your ammo as it is and see what charge gives the best accuracy. After that, experiment with seating depth to find what works best. Most factory rifles and common bullets do best from 20 thou off the lands to as much as 5x that much.

 

[turret]

Re: oal for .308

i decided to leave them at home today.

i spoke with someone i consider rather knowledgeable, who seemed to believe that they would be fine. i measured the powder charges at 42, 43, 43.5, and 44.1 grains of varget. they are once fired fgmm cases with fed match primers. he suggested that considering that the loads weren't very hot, and that the difference in oal, wasnt' that greatm that i should start with the lightest and check for pressure signs as i go.

so many others tossed about grave warnings which basically got the best of me. i don't want to damage my rifle as it shoots rather well as is, and i also enjoy my face and hands too.

this expereince has been just the catalyst i needed to order up all the stuff to get into reloading/handloading myself (including a collet bullet puller)

. eveything should be here within a week or so, and i'll start by reading the ABCs of reloading book that came highly suggested.

any other suggestions are welcome.

 

[roggom]

Re: oal for .308

Turret,

I do not believe the loads will explode if you fire them, but I personally would never advise anyone to fire a known "out of spec" load. The issue is you did not load them up yourself. Did your friend use Varget, or H4895, or was it IMR4895, or maybe he had varget on his bench but unique in the hopper. If he mistakes the oal, his credibility is in question.

Reloading is a fun hobby, but it is one that can be less forgiving of mistakes.

SAAMI published standards are for manufactures of ammo, powder and bullet companies publish guidelines based on loads they worked up in labs. Are they absolutes? No


Being new to reloading, it is best to stick to published and credible loads until you have a full understanding of pressure and its effects on brass, chambers and projectiles.

Most guys who are familiar with reloading can look at a load and instantly know if its hot or dangerously under loaded (in case of bottle neck cases and slow powders). For someone knowledgeable in reloading to advise a noob to completely ignore published data is poor mentoring and down right irresponsible.

This hobby is very rewarding, don't start out with bad habits.

 

[turret]

Re: oal for .308

roggom, i hear ya. it was varget for sure because it was my powder and i measured the charges. i'm a newb though and he was stepping me through the process. i don't think he has much experience himself, and from here out i'll ask questions of reputable people and read from quality sources.

i also firgured that trying to find a good load for my rifle these would be a waste, since changing the oal could change the pressure and make them perform differently. i just read up how to figure my rifle seating depth. i'll be working this out tomorrow, so when my stuff gets here, i have a good place to start.

i'm pretty anal about most things, so by the book it will be for quite a while. you also probably see me back asking a ton a questions.

cheers

 

[Graham]

Re: oal for .308

You'll never know the answer unless you measure your throat.

Get measuring tools. Use them.

Otherwise all advice is useless to you.

 

[turret]

Re: oal for .308

is measuring the throat the same as finding rifle seating depth? i saw a page from a reloading manual that showed putting a buller in a once fired case (from my rifle) and coloring it with marker. chambering it, closing the action, then caerfully removing it and measuring the coal, backing off from that .015 to.03 and seating my reloads to match.

will this do the trick?

 

[Helmet]

Re: oal for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turret</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this expereince has been just the catalyst i needed to order up all the stuff to get into reloading/handloading myself (including a collet bullet puller)

.</div></div>Other peoples experiences may very, but I haven't had much success with those. They work, but they always leave marks on the bullet. The inertia hammer is cheap and doesn't touch the bullet. My .02

 

[Helmet]

Re: oal for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turret</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is measuring the throat the same as finding rifle seating depth? i saw a page from a reloading manual that showed putting a buller in a once fired case (from my rifle) and coloring it with marker. chambering it, closing the action, then caerfully removing it and measuring the coal, backing off from that .015 to.03 and seating my reloads to match.

will this do the trick? </div></div>Do it a bunch to make sure. The bullet can get hung up on the lands and pull out a little when you remove it. I'm embarrassed to say how many times I must have done it before I was satisfied that it was correct. Also, if you are measuring from the O-give it will be more accurate. The measurements will change slightly from bullet to bullet if you are measuring to the tip.

 

[turret]

Re: oal for .308

i'll be picking up an inertia puller too. i didn't realize that the collet pullers left marks and thought them to be a bit more controlled.

is there a way to measure to the ogive apart from buying a oal gauge and comparator?

i'm trying to keep things as simple (inexpensive) as possible right now. and it may be a couple weeks before i can pick those up.

 

[Helmet]

Re: oal for .308

This is what I have. Not expensive, but not free either.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=68508...9004951_d_20530

I guess you could get fairly close without it. Measure some of your bullets and see how much difference there is between them in length.

 

[Helmet]

Re: oal for .308

You could just get these 2 things and save a little money(I'm assuming you have a 308).
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00005B2000
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00005830

 

[turret]

Re: oal for .308

that's theone i was looking at along with hornady's oal gauge. if i sort bullets as to length and then measure from headstamp to meplat, would that be more consistant? or is there too much variance in ogive within the bullets.

i'll probably just suck it up and get the tools sooner than later.
and i appreciate all the help.

 

[Helmet]

Re: oal for .308

I don't really think it's the O-give that's so inconsistent as much as the tip. The tip is notoriously goofy in SMKs. It really doesn't matter how long or short the bullet is after the Bearing Surface transitions into the O-give as the nose never touches anything anyway so it doesn't effect the jump.

I think it would be worth closing an empty round in the chamber to measure anyway as it will give you a rough idea of the jump. It just wont be as consistent from round to round without the comparator.

I'm know expert on this like many people here, but when I started I was just measuring to the tip and after awhile I realized that I was jumping the bullet a little different each time.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[Helmet]

Re: oal for .308

I've got a gizmo like that hornady oal gauge and I eventually just closed an empty round in there a bunch of times like you had mentioned. If money is tight you really don't need it. Just the comparator. $15+SH

 

[Helter]

Re: oal for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turret</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this expereince has been just the catalyst i needed to order up all the stuff to get into reloading/handloading myself (including a collet bullet puller)

.</div></div>Other peoples experiences may very, but I haven't had much success with those. They work, but they always leave marks on the bullet. The inertia hammer is cheap and doesn't touch the bullet. My .02 </div></div>

And they have the added benefit of *really* freaking out the cats when you randomly start pounding on your reloading bench.

 

[Helmet]

Re: oal for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Helter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turret</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this expereince has been just the catalyst i needed to order up all the stuff to get into reloading/handloading myself (including a collet bullet puller)

.</div></div>Other peoples experiences may very, but I haven't had much success with those. They work, but they always leave marks on the bullet. The inertia hammer is cheap and doesn't touch the bullet. My .02 </div></div>

And they have the added benefit of *really* freaking out the cats when you randomly start pounding on your reloading bench. </div></div>LOL! Yes, they aren't as quiet.