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How much better is custom?

M

Morris91

Private
Minuteman
Sep 3, 2012
15
0
32
Belle, WV
Hi all, Benn trying to decide on a LR rifle.
My main question is How much better is a custom gun say from GAP compared to a say a sako trg42 in terms of reliability and accuracy. Im pretty set on either a .308 or .338 LM. My main reasoning for not wanting to go the custom route is With GAP the lead times are quite significant. I just want to know if waiting almost a year for a custom gun from them is truly worth it. Thanks in advance!
 
Re: How much better is custom?

going with a GAP build is only necessary if you cannot find the stock action barrel length and profile, caliber you can't live without. If a TRG fits your bill go with it, they shoot as good as any GAP built.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Lots of GAPs, AI, and some TRGs for sale on this website. No waiting.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

I had Accurate Ordanace build a rifle for me last year. From my first phone call to the time I picked up my rifle was just over a month. I have shot lots of nice factory guns. They don't compare. I picked every piece of my rifle just the way I wanted it. If I ever have a problem I know who to go to. Not that I have had a problem. Try sending a factory rifle back for a problem. See how long it takes to get worked out. A custom rifle from a shop you trust is something special. You can get a nice factory rifle that is easy to replace or you can get a one of a kind custom made for you.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why 308 or 338, why not something in the middle? Say 260? </div></div>
Not really familiar with a 260 (doesn't mean im not open to all options). I want to be able to take any animal from a coyote to an elk 1000yrds and under. I would also like to shoot steel/paper out to 1500 yards. I would like the gun to be .5 MOA or better
 
Re: How much better is custom?

There are some other things to consider.

The TRG is a fantastic rifle in many respects however they are a little different than what you might be used to. Like having a 60 degree bolt throw and a 2 stage trigger. Also Sako accessories are pricey like cheek and butt spacers, mags and bipod.

I have a custom 42 that I tried to get used to but I have decided to sell it this winter. I found that I really do prefer a 90 degree bolt throw and single stage triggers.

You may be the exact opposite and absolutely love everything about a TRG ??? Ask around, maybe someone that lives not too far away can meet with you to shoot a few rounds.

GAP are great builders as are quite a few more gunsmiths that hang out on the Hide. Buying used can be a fantastic way to find a top quality custom rifle. I bought my favorite rifle used. It was owned by one of the best smiths out there. I saved about a grand over what it would have cost as a new build.

Good luck on your search.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are some other things to consider.

The TRG is a fantastic rifle in many respects however they are a little different than what you might be used to. Like having a 60 degree bolt throw and a 2 stage trigger. Also Sako accessories are pricey like cheek and butt spacers, mags and bipod.

I have a custom 42 that I tried to get used to but I have decided to sell it this winter. I found that I really do prefer a 90 degree bolt throw and single stage triggers.

You may be the exact opposite and absolutely love everything about a TRG ??? Ask around, maybe someone that lives not too far away can meet with you to shoot a few rounds.

GAP are great builders as are quite a few more gunsmiths that hang out on the Hide. Buying used can be a fantastic way to find a top quality custom rifle. I bought my favorite rifle used. It was owned by one of the best smiths out there. I saved about a grand over what it would have cost as a new build.

Good luck on your search. </div></div>

Thanks man
 
Re: How much better is custom?

...the problem with going "custom" is you'll never want to go back to "factory". It's actually not a problem, more like a cool, fun addiction---and those custom builders are swell, good luck!
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Have you looked at DTA? It will be roughly the cost of a full custom (new) and you'll be able to try a number of calibers.

I just picked up my DTA SRS (308win) last week and it is impressive. I had shot friends full customs and as hard as it is to compare them to DTAs from a system standpoint, I don't think you'll be disappointed at all.

I questioned whether or not my Spuhr mount and S&B would allow me a proper cheek weld but when I get behind it I'm like a duck in water. Another big plus for the DTA over a traditional rifle in my book is the center of gravity is so much closer to you. I am able to hold mine pretty dagum steady off-hand which might come in handy if you're hunting.

While I'll probably do a full-custom build with the R700 I have (when it needs to get rebarreled), my DTA has skyrocketed up my favorite-rifle list. Give 'em a look and if they're not your cup of tea, I'd go with a used full-custom.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Someone enlighten me a little on the 260. Ive seen and heard a lot about them but never shot one. reloading options? Accuracy? Ability to take down most game?
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Give this a read. Then read it again!

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

I went 260 and love it.

I have a TRG and a custom. The TRG was my first precision rifle and after about 3,000 rounds, I still love it. I also like 2 stage triggers. The TRG will not disappoint. I just finished my Surgeon custom and I'm very happy with it. I even went to my smith and built it with him. Get behind as many rifles as you can and see what feels right and what doesn't.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

I don't have Gap, but i'm sure it will be the awesome rifle, I just ordering TacOps X-ray 51.....and it will take at least 1 year and it's worth for the waiting...
as long as i dont think about the gun, the time will go faster
laugh.gif
 
Re: How much better is custom?

I just bought a Sako 260 and Im pretty impressd. It shoots well under .5moa @ 100yds. 3 shot groups are one ragged hole with factory 123 gr scenar's. I cant wait to work up a load with some SMK's and A-MAX's. I'm sure it will do the job on Whitetails this hunting season. and I love the two stage trigger.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

I have customs and factory, my factory rifles are pretty much just as accurate as the customs but the customs are just more consistant and don't shift during high shot strings and they just feel better. My surgeon is down right now and has gone down before so a custom is deff not a cure of breakdown and doesn't offer perfect reliabilty. If I HAD to trust a rifle it would still probably be my customs and they do see more abuse than my factory rifles so the comparision is not equal. They way I look at it is that the chances of a custom coming out to be a great shooter is about 99% while the upper end factory rifles still would probably have a 75% chance of being what you want. You can always customize a factory barelled action to some degree to make it better and you can always upgrade it to 95%custom but if you got the coin and what everything the way you want with quality components then custom is probably the way to go. If a factory rifle can fit your needs then I don't think there is anything wrong with it. The way I see it is either you have a good shooting rifle or you don't even if it's a custom. I have a few of my factory rifles that I trust very much for presice shots. One is a savage and the others are rem m700 in manners stocks with good mounts and optics, so if a factory barreled action is set up properly with good optics then it stands a good chance of being a great shooter. Good luck
 
Re: How much better is custom?

AI (AW, AX, AE) and Sake TRGs are better rifles than customs and no pulling your hair out for a freakin year get your gun!

 
Re: How much better is custom?

Waiting for a custom build is worth it if the custom build provides you with something that is necessary to you and otherwise unavailable in a premium factory rifle.

Don't get a TRG. Get an AE.

Reliability of an AE or AW: Gets the nod over custom.

Accuracy of an AE or AW: On par with custom, provided you are not tailoring the chamber of the custom build for a specific bullet and/or load.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

I own a TRG, I don't own any customs but have shot lots. Depends on the custom and the price but Sako TRGs are damn fine rifles. Some say accessories are expensive and they would be right but you get what you pay for. I have never had an issue with my Sako or it's accessories. They work 100%. I own an Ed Brown, I carry a Glock.
Are there some customs I would love to own? Damn betcha!
Everything is relative...
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRJammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AI (AW, AX, AE) and Sake TRGs are better rifles than customs and no pulling your hair out for a freakin year get your gun!

</div></div>

Nothing against any of those rifles, but to outright declare their superiority to any custom is a bit over the top.

There are SEVERAL builders here on this forum that can readily meet or exceed the quality of TRGs and the like.

Most if given the choice, will decidedly choose custom, and that's not a critique of the quality of a plug n play rig.



 
Re: How much better is custom?

AI is a factory gun but I look to them as almost a custom. In the factory class they sure aren't very close to the rest of the class.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Morris1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not really familiar with a 260 (doesn't mean im not open to all options). I want to be able to take any animal from a coyote to an elk 1000yrds and under. <span style="font-weight: bold">I would also like to shoot steel/paper out to 1500 yards. </span>I would like the gun to be .5 MOA or better </div></div>

I don't shoot a .308 but, isn't 1500yds. a bit beyond it's practical ability? I know it will hit at 1K but, I see a lot of references to it being more of a 6-800 yard round...? 7mm's have really good ballistics, I would be looking into something along the lines of the 7RSAUM (a little extra speed over my .284 Shehane) for what you describe.

-Rick
 
Re: How much better is custom?

before buying a gun you really need to think about the caliber. you said a .308 or a 338 lapua, i am very familar with both because i have both. the 308 is a very good game caliber and very very accurate but will not get you to 1500. the 338lm will do everything a 308 can do and way more like getting to 1500+ but is not practical for everyday shooting and what not, also very costly. so talking about custom or not rethink your choices of rounds, each has its special purpose. if your rich buy both. i think the 308 is one of the best calibers out there, it will be accurate to around a 1000 plus its cheap and easy to reload for very accurate and easy on barrels. the 338 is also very accurate and will go the distance but expensive to reload for and is overkill for most game. and not a gun to take out of the safe everyday to shoot, kinda impractical. i would go with a 308 as long as your not shooting a 1000 everday. its probably one of the most versitale calibers out there. so before you go and buy or build a rifle think about the caliber and what shooting you would be doing more of. and just for a thought i have 2 remington 700 ss 5r milspec rifles in 308 that will shoot as well as my buddys custom. the 700s and the custom will shoot under a 1/2 moa but the 700s are about 1500 dollars cheaper!
 
Re: How much better is custom?

TRG or AI, can you really go wrong (22/42 or AW/AE)? There is a price point difference though and only you can decide if the budgets there to buy depending on the model and options.

I like custom as I get pick and choose every aspect of the build but the wait time can be painful...... My experiences with this side of doing things has been great. From going "mild custom" rehashing a factory action & barrel to a full build off of an R700 to full custom from Mike Bush.

If my budget stretched a bit further I'd buy a new AIAX but that's just me, nothing against the TRG as for the money it's a great choice when considering factory rifles. Until then another custom from BOP in 6.5 Creedmoor is what's filling the void.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

I've done very well with my Remington 700s. For a factory gun, they shoot fantastic and are very reliable. I'd say look into the Remington AAC-SD if your thinking 308. It gives you the opportunity to add a break or suppressor in the future and the rifle will shoot sub MOA groups all day.

I'm not saying the GAP guns are lesser quality nor is the Sako. They are all fine weapons, I however have no experience with either.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

.308 OR .338 LM? Not trying to be a smart ass but how did you come to an either/or decision between those 2 calibers? I mean they are night and day when you compare them in just about every aspect. Cost, energy transfer efficiency, maintenance cost...and the list goes on. Unless you have the ability and location to practice with a Lapua I would go with a 300WM and run 208 Amax's for hunting and target, or even better the 225 Amax's.

If your gonna be punching paper more then dropping elk at 1500 yards the 6.5 Creed/.260/x47 are the best choices IMHO.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

I think some of your goals are a little unrealistic, as far as the hunting part of what you want to do is. Properly judging distances and the ramifications or all that are a whole lot different than slightly missing a steel plate at 1000 yards.

I have found with guns there are different tools you need for different purposes. As far as quality goes the options you mentioned are all good, you just may want to do some more research on what caliber you will ge getting and what you realistically will be able to use it for.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.308 OR .338 LM? Not trying to be a smart ass but how did you come to an either/or decision between those 2 calibers? I mean they are night and day when you compare them in just about every aspect. Cost, energy transfer efficiency, maintenance cost...and the list goes on. Unless you have the ability and location to practice with a Lapua I would go with a 300WM and run 208 Amax's for hunting and target, or even better the 225 Amax's.

If your gonna be punching paper more then dropping elk at 1500 yards the 6.5 Creed/.260/x47 are the best choices IMHO. </div></div>

Well a 308 is an all around good cartridge. I've owned a few 308s and they all treated me well.
The 338 LM is just an awesome cartridge I've read heaps and heaps of thing on here and various other locations about it. It's has more than enough power to kill anything and has amazing accuracy at long distances.

Mainly I want this gun to just shoot LR targets, but at the same time I want it to have that capability to take game down on those occasions that my hunting rifle is not set up to do. So all in all the gun will be used for 90% or more LR target shooting
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Not trying to be smart , but whats your level of experience with precision rifles, have you shot long range with large calibres before? If not then 338 is going to be a poor choice to learn with, and its going to be expensive. Theres more to a 1500 yard shot than just having a big calibre.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

I don't have experience in anything over 500 yards. I am very aware that there is more to it than a big caliber. Yeah 308 would be cheaper to reload and barrel life is longer but other than that what's the difference in starting with one or the other
 
Re: How much better is custom?

1. Cost. The 338LM is pretty expensive to build and load for.
2. Weight. 338 LM needs a fairly long barrel to realize its potential.

The 308 is very efficient and reasonably ecomical. At this point, the primary requirement should be practice, practice, practice.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRJammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. Cost. The 338LM is pretty expensive to build and load for.
2. Weight. 338 LM needs a fairly long barrel to realize its potential.

The 308 is very efficient and reasonably ecomical. At this point, the primary requirement should be practice, practice, practice. </div></div>

I agree, practice is the most important thing but I need a rifle first. I refuse to put a 2 or 3k scope on my kimber 8400 haha
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Have you even considered building a Custom Savage rifle? Others have questioned your caliber choice based on your wants and needs and personally I'd start off with something in the 6.5mm caliber, plenty accurate even to a mile although not as good as the 338 but way better than the 308.

Savage actions have come a LONG way from Grandpaps gun that people turned their noses up at. Their target actions come in various configurations and even their model 10 & 11 actions make excellent long range guns. Add the necessary custom barrels, stocks and other goobers and you'll have a gun very few can tell the difference in accuracy between it and a 4 or 5 thousand custom build.

Best part is you can assemble it yourself with the same components most custom shops will use and if you tire of one caliber they are very easy to swap over to the next flavor of the month round. Some folks need that expensive name engraved on the gun but if the end result of small groups, high scores or a clean kill at extended distances are the goal and you like the satisfaction of doing it yourself a Savage might be an option for you.

Just a thought since I hadn't seen them mentioned yet.

Good luck in your build.

Topstrap
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Were I to start over today and didn't already have myself invested in what I do, I'd buy an AI AE MK III, an S&B, and a suppressor. I'd also consider buying an extra barrel in .260 Remington.

I would not go with a .338 Lapua Magnum unless I had the range, skill set, and money to utilize it. I purchased an action for a 338 build, but realize my shooting beyond 1200 yards is going to be very, very rare. I'm considering selling the action and reinvesting that money into shooting supplies for my existing rifles.

A .260/6.5 CM/6.5x47 will get one to 1500 yards for target shooting. They won't quite do the trick for hunting at that range, though.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Morris1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why 308 or 338, why not something in the middle? Say 260? </div></div>
Not really familiar with a 260 (doesn't mean im not open to all options). I want to be able to take any animal from a coyote to an elk 1000yrds and under. I would also like to shoot steel/paper out to 1500 yards. I would like the gun to be .5 MOA or better </div></div>

How far have you shot to?

Is this your first "precision" rifle?
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Custom build aside, looks like a 6.5 cartridge might make more sense for you.

I'm still running on a factory 700 and have a custom on the way so I guess IMO they're worth it. We'll see...
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Morris1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why 308 or 338, why not something in the middle? Say 260? </div></div>
Not really familiar with a 260 (doesn't mean im not open to all options). I want to be able to take any animal from a coyote to an elk 1000yrds and under. I would also like to shoot steel/paper out to 1500 yards. I would like the gun to be .5 MOA or better </div></div>

How far have you shot to?

Is this your first "precision" rifle? </div></div>

Nothing over 500 yards because I have never bought a scope bigger than a 3x9 leupold, but when I get a nice LR rifle i will invest in a S&B or USO

I hope so...ive been wanting to get into it for a while now
 
Re: How much better is custom?

What you hopefully have gleaned from this bread is that there is no "right answer" to your question. Custom, TRG, AI, they will all shoot lights out (sub half-MOA at distance). Knowing that the performance is identical, the real question you are asking here is "what fits me better?" some people like the AI pistol grip, others hate it. Some prefer the short bolt lift of AI or Sako, others don't. The best thing for you to do would be to get behind each for a little test run, if it can be arranged.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Unless you have a good amount of money left over after the gun and scope purchase look at it this way.
308- lot more shooting and practice which will make you better
338- lot more looking at your gun in the safe
smile.gif


They are also so far apart. I think everyone should have a 308 for target shooting. There are a lot of calibers in between
that will serve your purpose well when hunting. Say a 300 Mag
or 7mm Mag or WSM.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you hopefully have gleaned from this bread is that there is no "right answer" to your question. Custom, TRG, AI, they will all shoot lights out (sub half-MOA at distance). Knowing that the performance is identical, the real question you are asking here is "what fits me better?" some people like the AI pistol grip, others hate it. Some prefer the short bolt lift of AI or Sako, others don't. The best thing for you to do would be to get behind each for a little test run, if it can be arranged. </div></div>

I would love to shoot a few of these guns, but I don't really know anyone near me that has much of anything close.
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Morris1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why 308 or 338, why not something in the middle? Say 260? </div></div>
Not really familiar with a 260 (doesn't mean im not open to all options). I want to be able to take any animal from a coyote to an elk 1000yrds and under. I would also like to shoot steel/paper out to 1500 yards. I would like the gun to be .5 MOA or better </div></div>

I would got with a 6Creed or 6XC if it was me. Oh thats right, I did go with a 6Creed, lol
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were I to start over today and didn't already have myself invested in what I do, I'd buy an AI AE MK III, an S&B, and a suppressor. I'd also consider buying an extra barrel in .260 Remington.
</div></div>

Listen to the man. I have the exact set-up (suppressor is pending). I wish I would have just went the AI route long ago.

BTW, I know of 3 AIs with high end glass in the Charleston area.
smile.gif
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brandon05_88</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were I to start over today and didn't already have myself invested in what I do, I'd buy an AI AE MK III, an S&B, and a suppressor. I'd also consider buying an extra barrel in .260 Remington.
</div></div>

Listen to the man. I have the exact set-up (suppressor is pending). I wish I would have just went the AI route long ago.

BTW, I know of 3 AIs with high end glass in the Charleston area.
smile.gif
</div></div>

Well im about 10 miles outside of charleston
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Please brother, continue with your research, you're not there yet. If you think you can hunt Elk at 1k with a .308, I hope you have some serious tracking skills because you're gonna wound and loose a lot of animals and sentence them to a slow agonizing death. A .308's tongue is hangin out well before 1k and they have to be pushed pretty hard to keep them supersonic at that distance. I shoot mine at 1k targets and they do very well but I would never even concider them for taking game at over half that, just to easy to find something much better for that job. The Lapua as a cartrage is overkill for hunting. If your main use will be target then you wont mind a little heavier rifle but I concider several of the rifles mentioned way too heavy to be good mountain rifle in Elk country. Like I said, more research...make sure you know what you want. Good luck.

okie
 
Re: How much better is custom?

Show up at one of Rayners Long Range matches and there is usually a wide assortment of guns from cheap to high end customs and nearly everyone will be glad to let you look, ask questions and probably even shoot a few. Same with the scopes we all use, nearly every type imaginable and lets you see what you might like.

We're on the cheap end, custom Savages but be glad to you let you ring some long steel with them if you want. With 70 to 80 shooters at the matches it would be hard to find another place to see so many pieces of equipment to compare.

Topstrap
 
Re: How much better is custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Show up at one of Rayners Long Range matches and there is usually a wide assortment of guns from cheap to high end customs and nearly everyone will be glad to let you look, ask questions and probably even shoot a few. Same with the scopes we all use, nearly every type imaginable and lets you see what you might like.

We're on the cheap end, custom Savages but be glad to you let you ring some long steel with them if you want. With 70 to 80 shooters at the matches it would be hard to find another place to see so many pieces of equipment to compare.

Topstrap </div></div>

That would be awesome, but im at work or college 7 days a week. I have plenty of time to do things in the afternoon on weekdays and weekends but not like full days to travel to a match
 
Re: How much better is custom?

I must be in a non vocal minority here. At 1,500 yards, an elk has enough time to completely walk out of the bullet path. Seriously? Shoot at an elk at 1,500 yards?

I guess I'm on the wrong forum...
 
Re: How much better is custom?

We shoot in Eleanor, and you're welcome to come out sometime and run our rigs. My buddy's is out for some mods right now though. PM me and we can work it out sometime.

Rayner's isn't too far away. About a 2.5 hour drive. Leave around 6AM; get back around 6PM one Sunday a month.
 
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